Tasted Death for every Man !

[Hopeful 2]

Yes, judging by your posts, Christs death saved absolutely nobody.

Jesus will save everybody who submits to His Father.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Right, saying man dont want salvation or rejects the gift, all of that is how men are as totally depraved people. Man by nature doesnt seek after God, doesnt desire God, because naturally we are dead to God, however, Jesus saved His People from that godless condition, thats why He is Saviour of sinners.

I wonder what David would say about that ?
And Noah, Moses, Elijah, Samuel, and Mary & Joseph ?
All "man by nature".

Jesus is the Savior of ex-sinners.

 

[brightfame52]

brightfame52, I think what he might be trying to say now (although I could be wrong) is that God knew beforehand who would choose to come to faith in Christ and that God therefore made Christ's death count only for those, not for everyone. If I'm correct about this, then his line of reasoning would of course be logically absurd.

If thats what he means, he would be agreeing with limited atonement, meaning Christs death wasnt for everyone, but for only believers, which would be in agreement with the truth. Of course the difference would be God foreknew who would believe in Christ because God predetermined who would believe in Christ before the foundation of the world, they are called His Elect.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ's suffering and death will save as many as partake in/of them.
It is written..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God." (1 Peter 4:1-2)

Thanks be to God for the choice to do just that.

Doesnt matter how you phrase it, if you believe Christ tasted death for every single individual by reading Heb 2:9, and consequently every single individual wont be saved, then in essence, you are saying Christs death was meaningless, has nothing to do with Salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus will save everybody who submits to His Father.

Again judging by your posts, Christs death saved absolutely nobody.

 

[brightfame52]

I wonder what David would say about that ?
And Noah, Moses, Elijah, Samuel, and Mary & Joseph ?
All "man by nature".

Jesus is the Savior of ex-sinners.

If you believe Jesus died for everyone without exception, and everyone without exception isnt saved, you are saying Christs death for salvation was worthless.

 

[Kermos]

I thought we were still on "tasted death for EVERY man" ?

We still are on who the "man" is in "Tasted Death for every Man !", so let's continue where we left off with

Since you successfully testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD is that "any man" and part of "the whole world" in 1 John 2:1-2 and then combining that with your testimony of "The Moslem didn't want advocacy" as shown in this post, then in effect your testimony is:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous whose advocacy failed for the anyone identified as that unbelieving dead Muslim man, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of that unbelieving dead Muslim man who is part of the whole world.
​

which is no longer the Apostle John's testimony recorded in 1 John 2:1-2. See that your testimony leads to the Jesus about whom you testify being an utter failure in His propitiation for the sins of that dead unbelieving Muslim man, even the Jesus of whom you testify about has a null and dead advocacy! You just compare and contrast your testimony here with the Apostle John's testimony in the following paragraphs.

Let's look at the First Book of John's two passages that contain the phrase "the whole world", and this according to the Apostolic testimony of John in Truth (John 14:6):

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
(1 John 2:1-2)
​

This is the first passage.

John the Apostle also testified:

The whole world lies in the evil one.
(1 John 5:19)
​

This is the second passage.

The Apostle John testified using Christian writing, and based on context with Spiritual Truth (John 14:6), neither instance of "the whole world" means "all men" (everyone everywhere in all time).

 

[Hopeful 2]

Absolutely correct, brightfame52.

They've placed themselves into an unresolvable logical dilemma, brightfame52 - they say that Christ is the Saviour,
yet they believe Him completely powerless to save - hmmm wonder how that works?

Some refuse to believe, or permanently repent of sin, or get baptized in Jesus Christ's name for the remission of past sins.
Ever read the Matt. 13 parable of the sower who tossed seed out and the birds came and ate it up before it brought forth fruit ?
Not all of the sower's seed successfully brought forth fruit, and not all that Jesus died for will be found worthy of eternal life.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Right, saying man dont want salvation or rejects the gift, all of that is how men are as totally depraved people. Man by nature doesnt seek after God, doesnt desire God, because naturally we are dead to God, however, Jesus saved His People from that godless condition, thats why He is Saviour of sinners.

His people are Godless ?
All people are Godless, before they choose God over "stuff".

 

[Hopeful 2]

If you believe and teach Jesus tasted death for a person or persons and they still wind up in hell, then you are saying Jesus death saved no one !

The only ones who won't be saved are those who rejected God's graceful offer of eternal life.
Salvation won't be forced on anyone.

 

[Hopeful 2]

If you believe Jesus died for everyone without exception, and everyone without exception isnt saved, you are saying Christs death for salvation was worthless.

Jesus' suffering and death ARE worthless...to those who wont take part in/of them.
News-paper coupons ARE worthless to those who don't clip them out.
Free health coverage IS worthless to those who don't sign up for it.
A free car wash IS worthless to all who don't drive up and ask for it.
Christianity is available to all men.
Nobody is barred from coming in.

Your POV is that we have nothing to do with our own salvation.
My POV is that our salvation is in our hands to receive or reject.

 

[Hopeful 2]

We still are on who the "man" is in "Tasted Death for every Man !", so let's continue where we left off with

Since you successfully testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD is that "any man" and part of "the whole world" in 1 John 2:1-2 and then combining that with your testimony of "The Moslem didn't want advocacy" as shown in this post, then in effect your testimony is:

​

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous whose advocacy failed for the anyone identified as that unbelieving dead Muslim man, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of that unbelieving dead Muslim man who is part of the whole world.​

​

which is no longer the Apostle John's testimony recorded in 1 John 2:1-2. See that your testimony leads to the Jesus about whom you testify being an utter failure in His propitiation for the sins of that dead unbelieving Muslim man, even the Jesus of whom you testify about has a null and dead advocacy! You just compare and contrast your testimony here with the Apostle John's testimony in the following paragraphs.

Let's look at the First Book of John's two passages that contain the phrase "the whole world", and this according to the Apostolic testimony of John in Truth (John 14:6):

​

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.​

(1 John 2:1-2)​

​

This is the first passage.

John the Apostle also testified:

​

The whole world lies in the evil one.​

(1 John 5:19)​

​

This is the second passage.

The Apostle John testified using Christian writing, and based on context with Spiritual Truth (John 14:6), neither instance of "the whole world" means "all men" (everyone everywhere in all time).

You are still on the "man", intent on ignoring the "every" written before it.

 

[brightfame52]

His people are Godless ?
All people are Godless, before they choose God over "stuff".

Your problem is that you dont believe Jesus saves by His death. In the final analysis you teach and believe that sinners perish even if Christ has died for them.

 

[brightfame52]

The only ones who won't be saved are those who rejected God's graceful offer of eternal life.
Salvation won't be forced on anyone.

Again you dont believe Jesus death saved anyone, that's unbelief.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus' suffering and death ARE worthless...to those who wont take part in/of them.
News-paper coupons ARE worthless to those who don't clip them out.
Free health coverage IS worthless to those who don't sign up for it.
A free car wash IS worthless to all who don't drive up and ask for it.
Christianity is available to all men.
Nobody is barred from coming in.

Your POV is that we have nothing to do with our own salvation.
My POV is that our salvation is in our hands to receive or reject.

Now you are admitting your blasphemy by saying Jesus death is worthless.

 

[rogerg]

Some refuse to believe, or permanently repent of sin, or get baptized in Jesus Christ's name for the remission of past sins.
Ever read the Matt. 13 parable of the sower who tossed seed out and the birds came and ate it up before it brought forth fruit ?
Not all of the sower's seed successfully brought forth fruit, and not all that Jesus died for will be found worthy of eternal life.

Your own post above demonstrates the exact logical dilemma that you are caught in. It cannot be made clearer than this: Christ alone is the Saviour. As the Saviour, He alone brought forth salvation, and by it, He saves - besides Christ, there simply are no other saviours unto eternal life mentioned in the Bible - none, to include man.
If Christ's sacrifice was intended by God to cover all, how could God deny it to them after it was completed? It would be unjust of God to have demanded such a sacrifice from Christ, and yet, refuse to apply it to all whom it covers. Once completed, it would not possible that sin could remain in some sort of nebulous state, pending and depending upon someone else's further actions to initiate God's forgiveness - it is just not within man's power to achieve that - only Christ alone is recognized by God, man is not.
The answer simply is this - that Christ did fully and completely make payment for sin with nothing else besides that needed, nor possible, nor permitted. It was never God's intention that it be for everyone - only for those so chosen.

[Tit 3:5-6 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

 

[Hopeful 2]

Your problem is that you dont believe Jesus saves by His death. In the final analysis you teach and believe that sinners perish even if Christ has died for them.

Sinners will perish in spite of Jesus providing His suffering and death to free them of sin.
Not all men want to be free, but the "get out of hell" card in available to them anyway.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Again you dont believe Jesus death saved anyone, that's unbelief.

I will wait until the day of judgement to prove that idea wrong.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Now you are admitting your blasphemy by saying Jesus death is worthless.

You honestly should have included the rest of my remark
The rest was "...to those who won't take part in/of them."

 

[Hopeful 2]

Your own post above demonstrates the exact logical dilemma that you are caught in. It cannot be made clearer than this: Christ alone is the Saviour. As the Saviour, He alone brought forth salvation, and by it, He saves - besides Christ, there simply are no other saviours unto eternal life mentioned in the Bible - none, to include man.

That is correct.

If Christ's sacrifice was intended by God to cover all, how could God deny it to them after it was completed?

It takes two to tango, and 99.9% of the people are not interested in God or in heaven.
God doesn't force conversions.

It would be unjust of God to have demanded such a sacrifice from Christ, and yet, refuse to apply it to all whom it covers. Once completed, it would not possible that sin could remain in some sort of nebulous state, pending and depending upon someone else's further actions to initiate God's forgiveness - it is just not within man's power to achieve that - only Christ alone is recognized by God, man is not.
The answer simply is this - that Christ did fully and completely make payment for sin with nothing else besides that needed, nor possible, nor permitted. It was never God's intention that it be for everyone - only for those so chosen.

[Tit 3:5-6 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

You seem to be absolutely unaware that we are the ones who must hear, believe, repent of sin, and get baptized.
God's gifts are available to all men. (Heb 2:9)
But we must accept them for them to bear fruit unto God.