Tasted Death for every Man !

[Butch5]

Hey Butch,

I think what I was saying was that the ability to give forgiveness is an after affect of becoming saved because only then is the true Gospel message known/believed within their hearts. Thus, those who don't, don't because they are not saved and not under Christ. Unknowing and uncaring, they are in spiritual jeopardy just as all the unsaved are. The forgiveness in view is manifested in/by the sharing and re-sharing of the Gospel message and its forgiveness. All true believes are willing to reassert that message with any true Christian who may have deviated from it, but who comes to realize it and seeks to repent of it. The desire to grant forgiveness is a gift from God placed into the heart of those saved which cannot be denied, just as God did with the gift of faith.

[Luk 17:4 KJV] 4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

(for brethen who seeks to repent)

[Mat 18:21-22 KJV]
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Note: "seventy times seven" symbolic numbers


Boy, that topic could (and probably should) be a thread in itself. I'm not sure if my belief falls into any particular camp, but I believe that the purpose of Christ's ministry/sacrifice was to remove the law of sin and death and replace it with the law of the spirit of life in Christ. I think the manifestation of the law of sin and death was caused by Adam's and Eve's transgression of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil - as law is the basis for the knowledge of good and evil. With that law, came into existence the judgment of everyone ever born onto this earth as they were under its auspices. Christ came, I believe, to eliminate it for the elect and Consequently placing them under the law of life in Chris. The law of sin and death was nailed to the cross destroying it hence ending sin, hence ending judgment and God's wrath . As we are informed in Romans, without the law there can be no sin.

HI Roger,

I don't believe you can make that argument from Scripture. If forgiveness was something that automatically came to a believer after being saved then there would be no reason to mention it. And, there would really be no reason to say what would happen if they didn't do it? The fact that Jesus tells them what would happen if they didn't do it, indicates that there was the possibility that they wouldn't do it. I also don't think you can make that case from reality. I've seen Christians who have refused to forgive

Regarding the Atonement, I was just pointing out how what I believe is different than most so I see Christ's death differently than a lot of people. I would ask though, if the law of sin and death has ended, why do Christians still sin and die?

 

[brightfame52]

From having the law of sin and death entering into it and reigning, as it does in this world - Satan's law

[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Roger, no disrespect, this doesnt make sense The New World to come doesnt need to be saved from sin. And to quote Rom 8:2 I see no relevance for that friend. Thats talking about a sinner being saved in this life.

 

[Fastfredy0]

I dunno, I think I'm like you Fastfredy0, the more I look the confusder I get. Unfortunately, it seems that I am
unable to stop myself from continuing

LOL ... literally laughing here .... hey, I gave up on trying to figure out what WORLD means in John 3. A few things I know it doesn't mean and that is where I leave it.

As I said, if you want WORLD to mean NEW WORLD in John 3, it doesn't put a wrench in my doctrine, so have at it. LOL

 

[rogerg]

After judgement is made then all things will become new again as sin can never enter into the new heaven and earth or the New Jerusalem.

In the world to come is after this present world has passed away and all things made new again.

Sorry, for_his_glory, I'm not exactly sure of your point but I think I may agree. Sin can never enter in, because the law of life in Christ reigns, not the law of sin and death, in the new heaven, earth, world

 

[brightfame52]

But, the law of the spirit of life in Christ is that which actually saves, no? Please observe:

[Rom 8:2 KJV]
I2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

It was the law of life itself, that set Paul free from the law of sin and death

I dunno, I think I'm like you Fastfredy0, the more I look the confusder I get. Unfortunately, it seems that I am
unable to stop myself from continuing

Christs death freed those He died for from the law Rom 7:4,3

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

Christs death freed them He died for from its curse, and condemnation, because Christ for them has fulfilled it for them, kept all of its Holy precepts, and bore its penalty of death for their sins against it Then in time when God regenerates the persons Christ died for, by the Spirit, they are made to know by Faith they are free from the Law, hence Rom 8:2

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The Spirit gives all Christs redeemed ones Life !

 

[rogerg]

To tell you the truth, I wasn't sure what you meant by law of sin and death, and Christ's law of life until I goggled it and found Romans 2:8. Go there to make your point on the subject. I think Paul talk about his internal fight where the flesh is against the Spirit and vise versa. Anyways, that is my thoughts. Find an easier road to make the point IMO. I think most agree with you, but few would use John 3 to make it especially since it is HOLY TURF for the 'free willers'. (giggles)

Ok will do - thx

 

[BrotherJames925]

Hi BrotherJames925,

Thank you for your concern. I'm not exactly sure of what your beliefs are so I may have misunderstood the intent of your post, however, were we to attempt to satisfy the law through our own efforts, then I believe we would be in serious spiritual jeopardy indeed regarding our salvation. Please observe:

[Rom 4:4 KJV]
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

[Rom 3:19 KJV]
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

[Rom 6:14 KJV]
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

[Gal 4:21-24, 26, 28 KJV] 21
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. ...
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. ...

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

[Heb 7:11 KJV]
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Thanks
Roger

Hello Roger. The Peace of Jesus, The "Jewish" Christ, who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, The God Of Abraham and the Living God, in His human nature, be with you...YOU SAY:<<
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?<<<O.K.. First of all the Levite priests were not made perfect by the Law of Moses But By The Holy Spirit and His Eternal, Moral, Law (His 10 Commandments)....And?!! STILL....

You say:<<<
[Rom 3:19 KJV]
19 Now we know that what things woever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God....CORRECT!! CORRECT! Now read this..Gal. 4:4

But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born "UNDER THE LAW:=(The 10 Commandments and also the law of Moses)

5 TO REDEEM "THOSE 'UNDER THE LAW"=(On human terms means this: He will redeem THOSE WHO OBEY HIS LAW" And Are Baptized in His Name Jesus and Know, Understand and Accept and Honor His Holy Name...NO-ONE ELSE Will be redeemed, NO ONE ELSE "WAS" REDEEMED"..NO MORAL LAW+(The Covenant of LOVE between the Israelites and Him = Deut. 9:7... SEE!! All Gentiles and Literal Jews have to become "SPIRITUAL JEWS a,k.a CRISTIANS" Read: Romans 5:21

So that just as sin reigned in death....so also "GRACE" Might Reign Through=(RIGHTEOUSNESS) And?!! This RIGHTEOUSNESS ARE...THE MORAL LAW and BAPTISM IN HIS NAME..SPECIALLY KEEPING HIS HOLY SABBATH-DAY.. Other wise, there is no eternal life with Jesus in the Kingdom of His Father....You follow a roman-catolic christ, a lawless christ=lucifer=jehovah, yahweh, yahveh, the logos..etc.etc. etc...The Moral Law is The God of Abraham in Commandments just as Jesus is "THE WORD" (TO which lucifer introduced the pagan 'logos") See! Read: Romans 2:20

Because you have in The Moral Law..."THE EMBODIMIENT" OF THE KNOWLEDE AND TRUTH....The Spirit of Truth lives in that Law, The knowledge of God=(Jesus) Lives in that Law...See! When you reject this Law...YOU ARE CURSED" = 1 John 5:9=All Who "PRACTICE SIN"=(Reject His Holy Eternal Moral Law) PRACTICE SIN, + Deut. 27:26 + Jere..11:3 + Gal. 1: 8-9 + 1 Cor. 16:22=(John 14:15) = Matthew 25:41 Then Christ will tell to "ALL THOSE WHO ARE CURSED""INOT HELL WITH THE DEDVIL AND HIS ANGELES....See! YOU and the rest of human are walking day by day into hell (I did walked into hell for 50 years....but?!! I Changed, I saw the Light and now I try to help others..... Brother James...


Thanks

 

[brightfame52]

Hello Roger. The Peace of Jesus, The "Jewish" Christ, who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, The God Of Abraham and the Living God, in His human nature, be with you...YOU SAY:<<
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?<<<O.K.. First of all the Levite priests were not made perfect by the Law of Moses But By The Holy Spirit and His Eternal, Moral, Law (His 10 Commandments)....And?!! STILL....

You say:<<<
[Rom 3:19 KJV]
19 Now we know that what things woever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God....CORRECT!! CORRECT! Now read this..Gal. 4:4

But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born "UNDER THE LAW:=(The 10 Commandments and also the law of Moses)

5 TO REDEEM "THOSE 'UNDER THE LAW"=(On human terms means this: He will redeem THOSE WHO OBEY HIS LAW" And Are Baptized in His Name Jesus and Know, Understand and Accept and Honor His Holy Name...NO-ONE ELSE Will be redeemed, NO ONE ELSE "WAS" REDEEMED"..NO MORAL LAW+(The Covenant of LOVE between the Israelites and Him = Deut. 9:7... SEE!! All Gentiles and Literal Jews have to become "SPIRITUAL JEWS a,k.a CRISTIANS" Read: Romans 5:21

So that just as sin reigned in death....so also "GRACE" Might Reign Through=(RIGHTEOUSNESS) And?!! This RIGHTEOUSNESS ARE...THE MORAL LAW and BAPTISM IN HIS NAME..SPECIALLY KEEPING HIS HOLY SABBATH-DAY.. Other wise, there is no eternal life with Jesus in the Kingdom of His Father....You follow a roman-catolic christ, a lawless christ=lucifer=jehovah, yahweh, yahveh, the logos..etc.etc. etc...The Moral Law is The God of Abraham in Commandments just as Jesus is "THE WORD" (TO which lucifer introduced the pagan 'logos") See! Read: Romans 2:20

Because you have in The Moral Law..."THE EMBODIMIENT" OF THE KNOWLEDE AND TRUTH....The Spirit of Truth lives in that Law, The knowledge of God=(Jesus) Lives in that Law...See! When you reject this Law...YOU ARE CURSED" = 1 John 5:9=All Who "PRACTICE SIN"=(Reject His Holy Eternal Moral Law) PRACTICE SIN, + Deut. 27:26 + Jere..11:3 + Gal. 1: 8-9 + 1 Cor. 16:22=(John 14:15) = Matthew 25:41 Then Christ will tell to "ALL THOSE WHO ARE CURSED""INOT HELL WITH THE DEDVIL AND HIS ANGELES....See! YOU and the rest of human are walking day by day into hell (I did walked into hell for 50 years....but?!! I Changed, I saw the Light and now I try to help others..... Brother James...


Thanks

What in the world are you talking about?

 

[BrotherJames925]

What in the world are you talking about?

Hello brightfame52..The Peace of Jesus, "The Jewish" Christ, who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, The God of Abraham and the Living God in "His" human nature...You say:<<<WHAT IN THE WORD ARE TALKING ABOUT?!!>> What is that you want to know?!!! Print it..."ANYTHING" you want to know about the Holy Scrip- tures and bibles, I WILL HELP YOU!!! Brother James.....

 

[BrotherJames925]

Hello BrotherJames925
In our renewed Spiritual inner man where Christ dwells in us by that of the Spiritual rebirth from above we do live a life that is holy and blameless before the Lord, but in my flesh dwells no good thing and will cause me to fail Him at times. When this happens the Holy Spirit is quick to convict me of my transgression that I humbly repent of my action and seek God's forgiveness. Until that of 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 taking place there is no perfect person until we are completely given new glorified bodies. Do we make a practice of sinning? No, but sometimes we will mess up and thanks be to God for His mercy and grace. Grace pardons us and mercy continues to love us.

Hello for his glory...The Peace of Jesus, who is "The Jewish" Christ" who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God Son of man, The God of Abraham and The Living God in His human nature be with you...YOU SAY:<<In our renewed Spiritual inner man where Christ dwells in us by that of the Spiritual rebirth from above we do live a life that is holy and blameless before the Lord,<< This happens in the baptism in The Name of Jesus and?? The Law takes you to it...Do you keep His Holy Moral "ETERNAL LAW"?!!! and are baptized in His Holy Name?!! If you were you would be a Spiritual Jew "The New Man" Ephesians 2:15 + 2 Cor. 5:17-21 talks about it and Psalm 102:18 Prophecies.. I see through your e-mails that you never done that?!! meaning lucifer has tricked you all your life as he does that with everyone...YOU SAY:<<but in my flesh dwells no good thing and will cause me to fail Him at times. When this happens the Holy Spirit is quick to convict me of my transgression that I humbly repent of my action and seek God's forgiveness.>> That forgiveness is given to EVERY SPIRITUAL JEW "EVERY HOLY SABBATH DAY" at the service of "ATONEMENT FOR THE SINS"= Ex. 31:13-16 as it was all the time....

YOU SAY:<<1 Corinthians 15:51-58 taking place there is no perfect person until we are completely given new glorified<< TO REJECT bodies. Do we make a practice of sinning? No, ...1 John 5:9 Says that anyone who "REJECTS" His Holy Law..IS CURSED 'CAUSE He/She PRACTICES SIN, also whoever "REJECTS" TO BE BAPTIZED IN HIS HOLY NAME (The Name given to us "TO BE SAVED") REJECTS HIS HOLY SABBATH DAY and IS CURSED AND PRCTICES "SIN"...Then read. Heb. 10:14...Brother James.....

 

[BrotherJames925]

Hi BrotherJames925,

Thank you for your concern. I'm not exactly sure of what your beliefs are so I may have misunderstood the intent of your post, however, were we to attempt to satisfy the law through our own efforts, then I believe we would be in serious spiritual jeopardy indeed regarding our salvation. Please observe:

[Rom 4:4 KJV]
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

[Rom 3:19 KJV]
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

[Rom 6:14 KJV]
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

[Gal 4:21-24, 26, 28 KJV] 21
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. ...
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. ...

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

[Heb 7:11 KJV]
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Thanks
Roger

Hello Roger...The Peace of Jesus, The "Jewish" Christ, who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, the God of Abraham and the Living God in His human nature be with you...YOU SAY:<<<
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need [was there] that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?...Then what is it that you will do with what Jesus says in Matthew 5:48 "BE PERFECT: Therefore as YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS PERFECT!!!!... See! Jesus doesn't say...WAIT till the time comes and I will make you perfect...NO!!! He says.. "BE PERFECT"..And how can you be perfect: Walking "IN THE PERFECT LAW = Psalm 19:17 + James 1:24 + Heb. 10:14..OBEYING AND PLEASING 'THE PERFCECT GOD'"...This happens for first time at baptism in His Holy Name, after that every Holy Sabbath-Day, at the service of "ATONEMENT" Every week....No otherway, no otherwise.....Brother James.....

 

[brightfame52]

Hello brightfame52..The Peace of Jesus, "The Jewish" Christ, who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, The God of Abraham and the Living God in "His" human nature...You say:<<<WHAT IN THE WORD ARE TALKING ABOUT?!!>> What is that you want to know?!!! Print it..."ANYTHING" you want to know about the Holy Scrip- tures and bibles, I WILL HELP YOU!!! Brother James.....

Have you heard of Sabellianism ?

 

[rogerg]

See! Jesus doesn't say...WAIT till the time comes and I will make you perfect...NO!!! He says.. "BE PERFECT"..And how can you be perfect: Walking "IN THE PERFECT LAW = Psalm 19:17 + James 1:24 + Heb. 10:14..OBEYING AND PLEASING 'THE PERFCECT GOD'"...This happens for first time at baptism in His Holy Name, after that every Holy Sabbath-Day, at the service of "ATONEMENT" Every week....No otherway, no otherwise.....Brother James.....

HI BrotherJames925,

I can(and will if you'd like) reply to each of the individual points in your reply, but let me ask you this first, what was it that Jesus accomplish by His offering?

 

[for_his_glory]

"The Jewish" Christ"

Why do you call Christ Jesus "The Jewish Christ" as Galatians 3:23-29 says differently. Jesus is Lord of all, just not the Jew only.

This happens in the baptism in The Name of Jesus and?? The Law takes you to it...Do you keep His Holy Moral "ETERNAL LAW"?!!! and are baptized in His Holy Name?!! If you were you would be a Spiritual Jew "The New Man" Ephesians 2:15 + 2 Cor. 5:17-21 talks about it and Psalm 102:18 Prophecies..

The law brought us to the knowledge of sin and we are no longer under the curse of the law, but under the new covenant of God's grace through faith in Christ Jesus, Galatians 3:13. We do though have to live under the moral parts of the laws being that of the greatest commandment of love, Matthew 22:39.

There are laws (commandments) of God that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite, which Christ has already fulfilled in His death and resurrection. Then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow.

I have been baptized into Christ baptism for receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when I was Spiritually born again from above, John 3:5-7; Galatians 3:23-29.

God does not differentiate between the Jew or the Gentile as we by faith are all one body of Christ with He being the head of the body, Colossians 1:17-23.

I see through your e-mails that you never done that?!! meaning lucifer has tricked you all your life as he does that with everyone...

I never sent you any e-mails, but only reply in these threads. What makes you think that I am not Spiritually born again from above?

YOU SAY:<<but in my flesh dwells no good thing and will cause me to fail Him at times. When this happens the Holy Spirit is quick to convict me of my transgression that I humbly repent of my action and seek God's forgiveness.>> That forgiveness is given to EVERY SPIRITUAL JEW "EVERY HOLY SABBATH DAY" at the service of "ATONEMENT FOR THE SINS"= Ex. 31:13-16 as it was all the time....

If I am understanding you correctly you are saying we have to wait for every holy sabbath in order for our sins to be forgiven? Are you a Jew under the law, or are you a child of God through the death and resurrection of Christ who now sits at the right hand of God making intercession for us, Romans 8:31-34. Do you believe there is only one day of the week that we can have our sins forgiven?

YOU SAY:<<1 Corinthians 15:51-58 taking place there is no perfect person until we are completely given new glorified<< TO REJECT bodies. Do we make a practice of sinning? No, ...1 John 5:9 Says that anyone who "REJECTS" His Holy Law..IS CURSED 'CAUSE He/She PRACTICES SIN, also whoever "REJECTS" TO BE BAPTIZED IN HIS HOLY NAME (The Name given to us "TO BE SAVED") REJECTS HIS HOLY SABBATH DAY and IS CURSED AND PRCTICES "SIN"...Then read. Heb. 10:14...Brother James.....

I do not reject His holy law of walking in love being the first and greatest of all the laws as by love I keep all the moral parts of the law that are written upon my heart. 1 John 5:6-21 is the testimony concerning the Son of God that we may know. My spirit has been made holy before Him as He has sanctified me by the washing of His blood setting me apart from the world as I am His own and no longer of this world.

Have you heard of Sabellianism ?

I never heard of it, but did look it up and if this is what you believe, which comes against CF's statement of faith, then you have no idea who the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are.

 

[for_his_glory]

BrotherJames925

First you can not make judgement on me or anyone else whether I am Spiritually born again or not. These accusations do not fly in here and comes against the Terms of Service # 1.1, 1.3, 1.5. I would suggest you go and read the Terms of Service you agreed with when becoming a member as you are in violation of these terms. I will let it go for now as you are new to the forums here.

Second, you need to learn how to use the quote button as your replies are very confusing and hard to read.

To do multiple quotes first highlight the parts you want to quote. Highlift by holding the left mouse button, when you release the button you will see quote/reply. click on quote. When you are done with the quotes you want to reply to go to your reply box and at the bottom you will see "insert quotes" click on that and add the quotes to your reply box. Place your reply under each quote and not within the quote itself.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't know what the answer is for the meaning of WORLD. So, when I figure the meaning of WORLD out for myself I just say, "time to move on to verses that are more explicit" .... or "verses that would eliminate possibilities" (there being 7 or so possibilities I've heard)
It is a tenuous theology that builds too much into implicit meaning IMO. Could get 'lucky' I suppose.

I would stop reading at this point ...

1) “Kosmos” is used of the Universe as a whole: Acts 17:24 “God that made the world and all things therein seeing that He is Lord of heaven and earth.”

2) “Kosmos” is used of the earth:
John 13:1 When Jesus knew that his hour was come that He should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own which were in the world He loved them unto the end.” “Depart out of this world” signifies, leave this earth.
Ephesians 1:4 “According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world.” This expression signifies, before the earth was founded—compare Job 38:4 etc.

3) “Kosmos” is used of the world-system:
John 12:31 “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the Prince of this world be cast out”— compare Matthew 4:8 and 1 John 5:19, R. V.

4) “Kosmos” is used of the whole human race: Romans 3:19, etc.—”Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”

5) “Kosmos” is used of humanity minus believers:
John 15:18 “If the world hates you [and it does], know that it has hated Me before it hated you. [only the unelect hate Christ. Believers do not “hate” Christ, so that “the world” here must signify the world of unbelievers in contrast from believers who love Christ.]
Romans 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world.” Here is another passage where “the world” cannot mean “you, me, and everybody,” for believers" will not be “judged” by God, see John 5:24. So that here, too, it must be the world of unbelievers which is in view.

6) “Kosmos” is used of Gentiles in contrast from Jews:
Romans 11:12 “Now if the fall of them (Israel) be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them (Israel) the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their (Israel’s) fulness.” Note how the first clause in italics is defined by the latter clause placed in italics. Here, again, “the world” cannot signify all humanity for it excludes Israel!

7) “Kosmos” is used of believers only:
John 1:29 The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Look! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! [Since Jesus does not save all people in the world, that must refer to the elect]
John 3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life 16 “For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world [“For” refers to believers of verse 15], that He [even] gave His [One and] only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him.

NIV -but to save the world through him.
ESV -that the world might be saved through him.
NLT -to save the world through him.
NKJV -that the world through Him might be saved.
NLT -to save the world through him.

John 3:17
First occurrence (v.17), is necessarily to be understood that part of the habitable world wherein our Savior conversed;
in the second occurrence (v.17), all men in the world, as some suppose (so also there is a truth in it, for our Savior came not to condemn all men in the world: for, first, condemnation of any was not the prime aim of his coming; secondly, he came to save his own people, and so not to condemn all);
in the third occurrence (v.17), God's elect, or believers living in the world, in their several generations, who were they whom he intended to save, and none else, or he faileth of his purpose, and the endeavor of Christ is insufficient for the accomplishment of that whereunto it is designed

John 4:42 for [now] we have heard Him for ourselves and know [with confident assurance] that this One is truly the Savior of [all] the world.” [Since Jesus does not save all people in the world, that must refer to the elect]

John 6:33 For the Bread of God is He who comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”

John 6:51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world [the elect who are among the inhabitants of the world] is my flesh.”

John 12:46 I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes and trusts in Me [as Savior—all those who anchor their hope in Me and rely on the truth of My message] will not continue to live in darkness.

John 12:47 If anyone hears My words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge and condemn the world [that is, to initiate the final judgment of the world], but to save the world.

Romans 11:15 For if their [present] rejection [of salvation] is for the reconciliation of the world [to God], what will their acceptance [of salvation] be but [nothing less than] life from the dead?

2 Corinthians 5:19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting people’s sins against them [but canceling them]. And He has committed to us the message of reconciliation [that is, restoration to favor with God]. [only the elect are reconciled]

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son [as] Savior of the world. God's sending his Son to be the "Savior of the world," and his servant to testify it, is nothing but to be the Savior of men living in the world; which his elect are. A hundred such places as these, so clearly interpreted as they are in other places, would make naught at all to the purpose.

Let's just boil it down for the sake of our sanity, LOL, that it is by faith in Christ Jesus that we believe and have eternal life with Him.

 

[rogerg]

I don't believe you can make that argument from Scripture. If forgiveness was something that automatically came to a believer after being saved then there would be no reason to mention it. And, there would really be no reason to say what would happen if they didn't do it? The fact that Jesus tells them what would happen if they didn't do it, indicates that there was the possibility that they wouldn't do it. I also don't think you can make that case from reality. I've seen Christians who have refused to forgive

Question Butch5: what do you think Christ's offering produced?

 

[rogerg]

First you can not make judgement on me or anyone else whether I am Spiritually born again or not. These accusations do not fly in here and comes against the Terms of Service # 1.1, 1.3, 1.5. I would suggest you go and read the Terms of Service you agreed with when becoming a member as you are in violation of these terms. I will let it go for now as you are new to the forums here.

Is this reply directed to me? If so, did I ever say that you were not born again? Please repost it to refresh my memory - thanks. If your post was not to me, sorry to have replied

 

[rogerg]

Is this reply directed to me? If so, did I ever say that you were not born again? Please repost it to refresh my memory - thanks. If your post was not to me, sorry to have replied

Oops, sorry just found your post and I don't think it was intended for me. please disregard my prior post to you - thanks

 

[for_his_glory]

But... would it be correct to say that the timeframe of 3:17 is BEFORE the successful completion of Christ's offering? So in a logical sense, wouldn't it be correct to say "might" since it hadn't yet occurred-- that when God sent Him it hadn't yet occurred that why He was sent (if that's understandable)?
Isn't this world condemned already, as it is to go away and be replaced by the "world to come". I don't think two can co-exist.

[Mar 10:30 KJV] 30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
[Luk 18:30 KJV] 30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
[Heb 2:5 KJV] 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
[Heb 6:5 KJV] 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

And, as I always say , I could easily be wrong.

John 3:17 gives us the reason God sent His Son into the world that we might be saved from what is going to happen to the destruction of this world and all its inhabitants that have rejected faith in God and His Son Christ Jesus. They have already condemned themselves for rejecting the word of God.

The time frame from vs 16 is that which has been already written is past tense that God already gave His Son who already sacrifced His life so that we can have newness of life in Him.