BrotherJames925
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To this statement we are all in agreement.
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Tasted Death for every Man !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Hi wondering, I'm back again
Actually, it is my understanding that mankind became "lost" due to Adam and Eve transgression
[Rom 5:14-17 KJV]
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.
[1Co 15:21 KJV]
21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
[[1Co 15:22 KJV]
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
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There is no need to be sarcastic as I am only trying to understand that of what you believe. Apparently you do not subscribe to the Trinity and just cast aside many scriptures in the NT that you do not agree with that I have been sharing with you.
I asked you a question and was hoping for an answer so will ask it again.
How does a Gentile get saved or are we just doomed as throw away discarded by God?
You do understand that this is a Christian forum opened to all no matter what their religious filiation is as we discuss the whole of scripture. You disregard the Statement of faith and the terms of service that you were suppose to accept when becoming a member, but I am going to show you grace for now.
BrotherJames925
Member
Hello for his glory.. The Peace of Jesus, "The Jewish" Christ, who is the Holy Spirit, The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, The God of Abraham and the Living God in His human nature...be with you....YOU SAY:<<
So you are saying all Gentiles have no hope in Christ and we are all destined to hell!!! Wow!!!
If you believe this then what must we do to be saved?<<<
SEE!!!!YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW YOUR OWN BIBLE.. I will put it easy for you..."DO THE WILL OF THE GOD OF ABRAHAM"..then you'll become a Spiritual Jew..Spiritual Because our God is the Holy Spirit and Live in us...Jew because we accept and honor that He came in the flesh and was born of the tribe of Judah....In other words, The Spirirtual Jews as "CHRISTS" as He was = Gal. 4:19 + 1 Cor. 2:16...Romans 13:14 CLOTHE YOURSELVES "WITH THE Lord"..See! This happens in baptism in His Name...= Gal. 3:24-29:14...+ 1 Cor. 11:1 Paul says: FOLLOW MY EXAMPLE+(IMITATE ME) AS I FOLLOW THE EXEMPLE OF CHRIST (AS I IMITATE CHRIST"...Was the Jewish Christ "LAWLESS"?!!! Did he observe The First day of the week as His day of Rest?!!! Did Paul...Did the "Jewish" Christ believed in the trinity?? did Paul, did any of the apostles?...Were the apostles baptized in the Name of Jesus or in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit= 666 the seal of lucifer.......Now! I told you what you own bible "TELLS YOU">>>DO THE GOD OF ABRAHAM AND YOU WILL BE SAVED...SIMPLE! Whether you are a gentile or a literal jew...If you do that you will become the New Man Ephesians 2:15 and 2 Cor. 5:1-21 talks about.....
You say:<<The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.<< CORRECT!! CORRECT!!! CORRECT!!! That "REMNANT" Started at Acts 2:38-40 = Zech. 12:10..See! And of Course..."STILL OPEN"..You want to Join the "Jewish" Christ"...GO ahead, get a Spiritual Jew Priest and have Him taken you to be baptized by the Holy Spirit, and learn from him...GO AHEAD, I would feel real happy if you do that...But!!! AS GENTILE...only lucifer will take you, or as literal jew....Brother James...
Brother James...
There was no reply to my last post to you.
However, I'll also answer the above post since I've also noticed that you're a Sabbath keeper.
Which is fine. We should worship God every day but putting aside a special day as God commanded is good.
It's more than apparent to me that you know very little of church history since it seems you don't know that the first day of the week, Sunday, has been kept holy for God since the beginning of the church.
Here's a question for you:
There are 10 commandments.
Most Christians seem to ignore one of them...
Could you tell us the difference between the 9 commandments all Christians agree on,
and the one commandment that we do not agree on...the one about keeping the Sabbath holy.
Thanks Roger.
Of course the above is true....
I meant lost in the sense of right now....
some of us are lost and some of us are not.
What made HUMANKIND become lost was the disobedience of God's command by Adam, the first man and the one that represented all of mankind.
BTW,,,,I hope we can agree that the free gift is salvation.
Midnight here. Will get to your other post tomorrow morning.
BrotherJames925
Member
Hello wondering...The Peace of Jesus, The "JEWISH" Christ, who is the HOly Spirit. The Eternal Father, Son of God and Son of man, the God of Abraham and the Living God in His human nature be with you...YOU SAY:<<and the one commandment that we do not agree on...the one about keeping the Sabbath holy.<<
The Lord of the Sabbath comes every Holy Sabbath-Day, to have fellowship with His People, the Spiritual Jews, to forgive our sins, to renew our spirits, to revive our souls, To restore GRACE, To Purifies us, to Sanctify us and to have fellowship with The Lord of the Sabbath, etc. etc...When you REJECT IT...YOU REJECT HIM COMING TO YOUT HOUSE, meaning there is no Family Ties...Read: Ex. 31:13-16 = Heb. 2:11 + 1 Peter 2:12...Salvation is delivered to you every Hoy Sabbath-Day, which is "HOLY TO YOU TOO"= Ex. 13:14...See! But this is ONY FOR "ISRAELITES" LITERALS AND SPIRITUALS..NO OTHER ONES!!! But you are o.k...The christ of christendom commands his people to keep Sunday, so we both are O.K. we both are PLEASING OUR GODS AND Lords and CHRISTS...The issue is this: You people expect blessings and eternal life from the Lord of the Jewish Sabbath, having your sunday lord, but!! You will see when time comes, you all will see when you are in the flames.....Brother James.....
Hi Butch5.
In the Bible, God informs of the characteristics He instills within those born-again. As part of the process of coming into the fullness of spiritual wisdom, is given the knowledge (through a renewed mind) of those characteristics. To forgive becomes the normal state of being for a believer. NOT FORGIVING is not, and it is therefore "work". The believer looks for, and relishes opportunities to share the Gospel. God is also informing that those who do not willingly do so from the heart probably haven't yet become born-again. And once truly saved it is impossible to become un-saved.
I realize it's a little confusing and difficult to see, but God uses the Gospel to inform of the attributes of the
born-again. However, I also think, per PHl 2:13, (and just a supposition on my part), that they would eventually come to that realization of themselves.
I don't think that Jesus was warning of a do it or else situation, I think He used it as an a teaching opportunity to inform them/us. Something else to consider is that, for the sake of argument, if He was telling them what you say He was - do it or else-- what good would that be? Since, to truly satisfy the command, forgiveness must first be in/come from the heart. But, how can that happen without the heart first having been changed? Can it change itself of itself? Can we force ourselves into feeling something that we just don't feel? Can an infected organ cure itself, or does it require something outside of itself to do so? So, just to mouth the words, or to just act like it's true when it's not, would would leave the person still in violation of the command and would therefore be insufficient.
[Rom 12:2 KJV] 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
I[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
Then again, I could be entirely wrong about all this
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Don't need a Spiritual Jew Priest as man can not save us. I have been baptized in the Baptism of Christ in the name of the Trinity (Father Son and Holy Spirit) and have received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who teaches all truths. Christ Jesus became my Lord and Savior through the Spiritual rebirth from above as He is in me and I in Him, Colossians 3:1-4.
I will have nothing to do with your false religion of Judaism that does not believe in the Trinity nor worships Christ as being a part of the Godhead. You call Christ Jesus a false Prophet just like the Jews did that wanted Him crucified. Judaism has never accepted any of the claimed fulfillments of prophecy that Christianity attributes to Christ Jesus.
Act 11:25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Notice it says the disciples (Jewish men called of Jesus) were called Christians. How do you reconcile that with you saying Christianity is of Satan?
You speak about Paul, but yet reject that of what God gave him to write to the Christian Churches. We do not follow Roman Catholic doctrine or Protestant doctrine, but only that of the doctrines of Christ for what He has already taught.
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Hi Roger,
sorry for delay.
The interest is in the word WORLD.
It seems easy enough to understand.
I'm wondering what the problem is.....
Thanks for a thoughful reply.
We know that this world will come to an end...no doubt about that.
But isn't LOVED THE WORLD in the past tense?
It does not say FOR GOD WILL LOVE THE WORLD.
Why do you think it means the world to come?
Who are you o man, to decide or "think" what God would do?
First you say God could do whatever He wishes, and then you say you "think" God would let the world remain IF He really loved it.
Why can't you not accept what the bible tells us?
Why stay with what we know instead of "thinking" up your own ideas??
Jesus said there is a day coming when all will come forth from the tombs...this will be resurrection day.
John 5:28-29 This will be judgement day.
Jesus speaks about the end of times in Matthew 24, 25, Mark 13:32
Paul speaks about the end of times in 2 Timothy 3:1.
...and in many other verses...
Right. But this does not mean that God does not love the world He created.
Perhaps you're coming to these conclusions because you cannot believe that God loves the world He created?
Jesus Himself is saying that God so loved the world in John 3:16.....why doubt Jesus?
Romans 5:8 tells us that God loved us even before we were saved.
8But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
God loves the whole world --- this includes the righteous and the unrighteous.
Also, the following which also uses the word WORLD shows that Jesus is speaking of the present time...THIS world.
John 15:18-19
18“If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. 19“If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.
Above Jesus is speaking to His Apostles.
Verse 18: Why would the future world hate the Apostles? In the future world we will all love each other.
Verse 19: Why would Jesus say IF the apostles were of the world? Of course the Apostles will be in the future world.
John 3:17 is also speaking of THIS world.
Do you think Jesus might be judging the world to come??
Of course not.
Jesus died for everyone....1 John 2:2
Everyone in the world.
Whoever wishes to be saved may do so by believing in Christ.
He will not be judged, but those that do not believe are judged already because we are born lost and need salvation.
It's unfortunate that we read into verses what is not there.
Salvation is personal...it is not world-wide as you seem to believe in having to decide which world is saved.
In the future there will be no more talk about salvation since all those in the new earth will be saved and this discussion will end.
Yes!
I think so. I don't know of ANY denomination that teaches what you are stating.
Of course nothing unclean will enter into heaven.
But this is taken care of in THIS world.
Those that believe now...will be the residents of the new earth.
Please clarify what you mean.
Does God visit us only one day per week?
Is Jesus God?
Is God omnipresent?
I agree with the rest,,,except that we enjoy God's grace always,,,not just one day per week (if that's what you mean).
Are we saved every week or are we saved one time?
It's not up to you Brother James, to state who will be in the flames.
This is a job left up to God Almighty, and not to any mere human.
Please notice that there is ONLY ONE GOD.
There is only ONE SON.
There is only ONE HOLY SPIRIT.
There is not a Jewish God and a Christian God.
If this were the case then you'd be a believer of pantheism and that, of course, is a heresy.
I do not expect my salvation from the Lord of the Jewish Sabbath,,,but from the one and only God, creator of the universe.
Those such as yourself do not work to gather sheep into the fold....
rather you work to disperse the sheep.
Jesus said we are to be one and that HE is the only good shepherd.
John chapter 10
1 Corinthians 12:13
13For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
1 Peter 3:8
8Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind.
1 Corinthians 1:10
10I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
This is for Butch5 too.
I'd have to agree with what you say above.
Forgiveness has to come from the heart...
HOWEVER...if we wait to feel forgiveness from the heart, we might be waiting a long time!
I believe that forgiveness can be a matter of the will.
We WILL to forgive someone even though it is only in our mind and even though we might still be feeling hurt from whatever a person may have done to us.
In time the Holy Spirit works in us and eventually that forgiveness will move from the mind to the heart.
Jesus meant that we are to be God-like.
God forgives, and so we must also forgive.
If we cannot forgive someone, we must confess this so that the Holy Spirit can work to heal this sin.
In some way that we don't understand, God is hindered by our non-forgiveness.
The law of sin and death just means that we are slaves of satan....
that we are under HIS domain.
We still sin because the sin nature does not leave us once we become saved...
However, it IS under submission and we become "slaves" to God.
Friends and sons really, but to use the same language.
I don't understand what you believe about the atonement,,,,but there is more than one theory...I believe we've spoken about this.
BrotherJames925
You never answered the above question I had asked you previously.
9 commandments are the same in nature.
1 is different - the one about Keeping the Sabbath holy.
What is the difference?
Hi wondering
I think "loved" is in the Aroist tense (not that I'm expert in Greek) but my understanding is that it is typically rendered in the past tense even when no tense has actually been established.
If we just take the Bible's verses individually or just at face value, we run the very great risk of coming to an incorrect interpretation
Thinking and reasoning are sometimes necessary in order to do that - so I think God is telling us to think because He doesn't always say everything explicitly.
Regarding thinking in understanding the Bible:
[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
Regarding biblical interpretation
[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Don't you think that the heavens and earth are to be destroyed and the next world will replace this world ? Were there no sin in them, why would He do this? Why would God destroy them if He loves them?
[Psa 115:15-16 KJV]
15 Ye [are] blessed of the LORD which made heaven and earth.
16 The heaven, [even] the heavens, [are] the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
Satan is its prince:
[Jhn 12:31 KJV] 31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
I think Romans 5:8,9,10 are referring to true believers, or to those who will become true believers, but not to everyone, or then everyone would become saved.
God does not love the unrighteous and the unrighteous are those not justified by Christ.
[Jhn 17:9 KJV]
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Two "world"(s) are referenced in the Bible: 1) the current world and,2) the world to come. Maybe I misunderstand your point, but it seems like you're saying all references are to the world to come - they're not - many are to the current world. Spiritually speaking then, 18 (above) is saying those of the unsaved hate those of the saved and who are of the next world.
Sorry should probably stop here due to the restriction. I might try to finish tonight but probably tomorrow. Thanks
I think "world" is a different Greek word than either heaven or earth, so it might represent something else but couldn't find it defined anywhere (could have missed it). Not sure what else would be left. I could speculate but rather be certain (if possible). What do you think it means?
I think "loved" is in the Aroist tense (not that I'm expert in Greek) but my understanding is that it is typically rendered in the past tense even when no tense has actually been established.
Sorry, you kind of lost me on this one - I'm not sure what you mean? God wrote the Bible because He want's us to think, I think - He reasons with us through His word. Don't forget His admonition that to come to a proper interpretation of the Bible, we are to compare the spiritual with the spiritual and also that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation. There are many other admonitions of this type.
If we just take the Bible's verses individually or just at face value, we run the very great risk of coming to an incorrect interpretation
Thinking and reasoning are sometimes necessary in order to do that - so I think God is telling us to think because He doesn't always say everything explicitly.
Regarding thinking in understanding the Bible:
[Phl 2:13 KJV] 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.
Regarding biblical interpretation
[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Don't you think that the heavens and earth are to be destroyed and the next world will replace this world ? Were there no sin in them, why would He do this? Why would God destroy them if He loves them?
God gave up this earth to men. In a sense, this earth is no longer His earth.
[Psa 115:15-16 KJV]
15 Ye [are] blessed of the LORD which made heaven and earth.
16 The heaven, [even] the heavens, [are] the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
Satan is its prince:
[Jhn 12:31 KJV] 31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
I think Romans 5:8,9,10 are referring to true believers, or to those who will become true believers, but not to everyone, or then everyone would become saved.
God does not love the unrighteous and the unrighteous are those not justified by Christ.
[Jhn 17:9 KJV]
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Two "world"(s) are referenced in the Bible: 1) the current world and,2) the world to come. Maybe I misunderstand your point, but it seems like you're saying all references are to the world to come - they're not - many are to the current world. Spiritually speaking then, 18 (above) is saying those of the unsaved hate those of the saved and who are of the next world.
Sorry should probably stop here due to the restriction. I might try to finish tonight but probably tomorrow. Thanks
[Jhn 3:17 KJV] 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Wait - I don't understand, --isn't this saying Jesus was not to condemn? Both worlds are in view in verse:
the "condemn the world": is this world
"world through him might be saved": the world to come
had not Christ come into this world, and successfully completed His offering, then the world to come could never either have been brought into existence, or if it had been, it would be governed by law of sin and death as this one is.
Unsure about which of them it is
No, that's an impossibility. Had Christ died for everyone's sins then everyone MUST be saved, which, we know they haven't been. Only those names written into the Lamb's book of life at the foundation of the world, will be saved.
The "our" in 2:2 pertains only applies to those saved and to no one else:
[Phl 4:3 KJV] 3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and [with] other my fellowlabourers, whose names [are] in the book of life.
[Rev 21:27 KJV] 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
If the world to come is saved, then by the same means, are also those who are to inhabit it saved, and visa versa. All because of Christ alone -- without His offering, the salvation of neither could have happened: one offering for both.
Can't help that, But, everything, everything I state can be traced back to, and has originated from one basic and overriding tenet/doctrine: that Jesus Christ alone is Savior
Christ's sacrifice as the Lamb of God, actually occurred in heaven, not earth. The Holiest of All is in heaven not on earth (which only Christ was able to enter into, thereby becoming high priest). As high priest in heaven, He became the mediator between those saved and God
Christ's offering to the Father occurred on the cross on earth which completed it, but unsure what you have
in mind with the "taken care of"? What are the implications of that - sorry I don't follow?
"not there"? sorry, not sure what you mean by that statement either ? please clarify which are not there - thanks
Depends what you mean by "personal"? were it left up to us, no one would become saved:
[Act 28:27 KJV] 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Respectfully, I think you misunderstand my point. I do not believe the granting of salvation is world-wide, period. I believe solely that God grants it to whomever He has chosen to, but it can, and must, only come to them from God, and not as a work of our own. I think what you may have misunderstood, is that salvation, or judgment depending, is manifested based upon which law one is under: the law of the spirit of life in Christ, or, the law of sin and death. Christ's offering placed those whom He had chosen to save under the law of life in Christ(basically for those, removing them from under the law that causes sin and death - thereby granting them life everlasting). All others, having been born under the law of sin and death, will remain there until the end, for judgment.
Please, wondering, read the below verses carefully - thx
[Rom 5:12-13
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
[Rom 10:4 KJV]
4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Without the law, there can be no sin as it cannot be imputed. Without sin there can be no judgment
[1Co 15:56 KJV]
56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
[Col 2:13-14 KJV] 13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Then again, I may be wrong about all of this.
Butch5
Member
Why is that?
None taken, brightframe52 and thanks for your reply.
No, you're correct, the world to come didn't need to be saved from sin (as though it was already there and judged) --
it needed to be protected from the law of sin and death If I implied otherwise, then I didn't state very well what I intended to. The law of sin and death was to not be permitted reign over it . The law of Christ is what denied it.
God decreed the law of Christ; Christ's offering brought it to fruition - just as Adam's and Eve's transgression brought to fruition the law of sin and death.
[Rev 21:27
KJV] 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
It seems to me they became "dead to the law" - the law of sin and death- through Christ's sacrifice as the Lamb of God in heaven and by His offering on the cross, which placed then under the auspices of law of life in Christ. They were taken out from reign of one law (the bad one), and placed under the reign of another one (the good one).
Please see Rom 8:2 following
[Rom 7:4 KJV]
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
But.. then again I could be completely wrong about all of this
Because everyone would be saved?
Butch5
Member
That's what I'm asking. Why would everyone be saved?