Tasted Death for every Man !

[Fastfredy0]

According to you, but I know anyone who wants to know God will hear of Him and of His gifts for them.

That may be true, but it's an academic (of no value) point as the bible says NO ONE WANTS TO KNOW GOD.
“There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.

You won't hear of Him if you don't want to hear from Him.

This is a factually false statement. Many who have heard the gospel were not interested.
If this is not true, then anyone (and there are millions) who went to a Billy Graham crusade were saved. Hmmmm, if this is true I could save anyone by offering him, say $1000, to hear of Christ.

Those without the gospel will be judged without the gospel.

True enough, though the statement has no significance.


Aside: I'm still getting over your statement that all liars go to hell. Then when I mentioned that the apostle Peter lied, you said that some liars don't go to hell. Which is it?

 

[Hopeful]

That may be true, but it's an academic (of no value) point as the bible says NO ONE WANTS TO KNOW GOD.
“There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God.

Wow. You aren't calling Abraham and Isaac unrighteous, are you?
I wanted to know God, and He revealed Himself to me.

This is a factually false statement. Many who have heard the gospel were not interested.
If this is not true, then anyone (and there are millions) who went to a Billy Graham crusade were saved. Hmmmm, if this is true I could save anyone by offering him, say $1000, to hear of Christ.

I thought we were discussing those in the jungle and commie' countries were the bible is banned.
Even there, if a man wants to know the truth, the truth will be revealed to him.

True enough, though the statement has no significance.

It refutes your POV of billions never hearing of Him so are doomed.

Aside: I'm still getting over your statement that all liars go to hell. Then when I mentioned that the apostle Peter lied, you said that some liars don't go to hell. Which is it?

Had Peter died before repenting of his lie, he would have gone to the lake of fire.
But he did repent, and hopefully lived the rest of his days without more sin.

 

[stovebolts]

My question: Please explain how billions of dead people who never heard of Christ could have been saved by belief in Christ.

Your answer.



So, you are saying people can be saved without knowing Christ by faith? If so what is the content of that faith and where in the Bible is this information found? (I assume those that do not know of Christ are saved by faith) Be specific please. This is an EXTREMELY important question as you are suggest salvation without knowing Christ.

Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we [originally] preached to you, let him be condemned to destruction! Why do you propose 'another gospel' by which men may be saved or do you propose the gospel of salvation without Christ is not another gospel.

Can one be saved by this gospel you propose? Is this gospel you propose more efficient than that spoken of by Paul, salvation by faith in Christ?

Concerning someone saved by this gospel that does not include knowledge of Christ ... is it wise to tell that person of Christ for he may be saved and not belief the 2nd gospel of Christ when he hears it. Can one be saved if one believes either of the gospels (yours without knowing Christ and the gospel that include faith in Christ), or does one have to believe both.

Where can I find information about how people are saved without knowing Christ? I would like to research their ideas.

I think, and please don’t take offense to this, but I think sometimes that religious teachings can often narrow our vision.

Paul teaches us that the OT is our school master. And this is what I hear Paul saying in those passages.

1. Gentiles knew of God, and God held them to the 7 laws within the Noahide Covenant. They were not excluded from salvation. This is a universal covenant that all of humanity is under without exception.

Seven Laws of Noah - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

2. The Israelites were chosen as Gods represented people on this earth. They willfully entered into the Sinai covenant with 613 laws. Gentiles we’re never held to the 613. They were only held to the 7.
3. The New Covenant was established with Jesus and does away with the Sinai covenant. Similar to the Sinai covenant, one willfully enters in.
4. The Noahide Covenant is still in effect and Gods Rainbow continues to testify to this.
5. Christ means the Messiah. Jesus was the promised Messiah as foretold by Moses. In other words, Christ is not the last name of Jesus. Instead, it’s a descriptor.
6. Although not in human form, Jesus was with the Father before the world was created.
7. All things were created through Jesus who had not yet come in human flesh.
8. Although not in human form, Jesus was present throughout the worlds history.
9 all truth comes through Jesus as Jesus is the Truth.
10. God has made this truth known through his creation to all generations without exception.

I’m sure you’ll disagree with much of what I’ve said, and who knows, some may even think of me as a heretic. But at the end of the day, we all have to sleep and my conscience is clear on the matter.

Grace and peace.

 

[JLB]

I think, and please don’t take offense to this, but I think sometimes that religious teachings can often narrow our vision.

Paul teaches us that the OT is our school master. And this is what I hear Paul saying in those passages.

1. Gentiles knew of God, and God held them to the 7 laws within the Noahide Covenant. They were not excluded from salvation. This is a universal covenant that all of humanity is under without exception.

Seven Laws of Noah - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

2. The Israelites were chosen as Gods represented people on this earth. They willfully entered into the Sinai covenant with 613 laws. Gentiles we’re never held to the 613. They were only held to the 7.
3. The New Covenant was established with Jesus and does away with the Sinai covenant. Similar to the Sinai covenant, one willfully enters in.
4. The Noahide Covenant is still in effect and Gods Rainbow continues to testify to this.
5. Christ means the Messiah. Jesus was the promised Messiah as foretold by Moses. In other words, Christ is not the last name of Jesus. Instead, it’s a descriptor.
6. Although not in human form, Jesus was with the Father before the world was created.
7. All things were created through Jesus who had not yet come in human flesh.
8. Although not in human form, Jesus was present throughout the worlds history.
9 all truth comes through Jesus as Jesus is the Truth.
10. God has made this truth known through his creation to all generations without exception.

I’m sure you’ll disagree with much of what I’ve said, and who knows, some may even think of me as a heretic. But at the end of the day, we all have to sleep and my conscience is clear on the matter.

Grace and peace.

Amen.


The only point I have made through the scriptures to him is God so loved the world.


That Jesus Christ is the proposition for our sins and for the whole world.

That's good news.


Why would someone promote a teaching that would exclude people from God's wonderful Promise and His love?

 

[brightfame52]

You seek to change that of what Jesus said without knowing you do. Were you saved before you repented for the remission of your sin and came to the Lord and confessed Him as your Lord and Savior?

You are rendering a false assessment about me. This thread is not about me, its about Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

Why would Jesus only taste death for some, but not others?

Is He a respecter of person only giving a certain few a chance to repent and turn back to Him?

I know I do not serve a God who would not give everyone a chance to come to Him.

Jesus tasted death for as many as His Father gave Him, you have to ask God why ?

 

[brightfame52]

I can't agree with that.
Christ died for Hitler, and he wasn't delivered from anything.

You can disagree, thats fine.

 

[brightfame52]

The death of Christ for those He tasted death for Heb 2:9 it delivered them from #1 Death, #2 the Devil, #3 Hell, #4 Gods Wrath. So how can we testify to the death of Christ and its accomplishments, f any for He tasted death for die in their sins and experience for eternity Gods Wrath ?

 

[jaybo]

The death of Christ for those He tasted death for Heb 2:9 it delivered them from #1 Death, #2 the Devil, #3 Hell, #4 Gods Wrath. So how can we testify to the death of Christ and its accomplishments, f any for He tasted death for die in their sins and experience for eternity Gods Wrath ?

What does this mean??

 

[brightfame52]

What does this mean??

What it says.

 

[for_his_glory]

You are rendering a false assessment about me. This thread is not about me, its about Christ.

No, it's about Jesus tasted death for everyone and my question to you pertains to the topic so please answer my questions I asked in post #952

 

[jaybo]

What it says.

When you write...

The death of Christ for those He tasted death for Heb 2:9 it delivered them from #1 Death, #2 the Devil, #3 Hell, #4 Gods Wrath. So how can we testify to the death of Christ and its accomplishments, f any for He tasted death for die in their sins and experience for eternity Gods Wrath ?

...it's inscrutable.

Hebrews 2:9 says "but we see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by God’s grace he would experience death on behalf of everyone."

It says that he would experience death on behalf of everyone, not deliver them from death. All people die. The devil, hell, and God's wrath are not mentioned.

"f any for He tasted death for die in their sins and experience for eternity Gods Wrath" is inscrutable.

 

[jaybo]

What it says.

The basis of communication with others is their understanding. "What it says" is avoiding the discussion.

Again, what does this mean: The death of Christ for those He tasted death for Heb 2:9 it delivered them from #1 Death, #2 the Devil, #3 Hell, #4 Gods Wrath. So how can we testify to the death of Christ and its accomplishments, f any for He tasted death for die in their sins and experience for eternity Gods Wrath ?

If you can't explain what you mean then it is by definition meaningless.

 

[brightfame52]

No, it's about Jesus tasted death for everyone and my question to you pertains to the topic so please answer my questions I asked in post #952

Everyone Jesus tasted death for shall by His death be delivered from death.

 

[brightfame52]

When you write...

The death of Christ for those He tasted death for Heb 2:9 it delivered them from #1 Death, #2 the Devil, #3 Hell, #4 Gods Wrath. So how can we testify to the death of Christ and its accomplishments, f any for He tasted death for die in their sins and experience for eternity Gods Wrath ?

...it's inscrutable.

Hebrews 2:9 says "but we see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by God’s grace he would experience death on behalf of everyone."

It says that he would experience death on behalf of everyone, not deliver them from death. All people die. The devil, hell, and God's wrath are not mentioned.

"f any for He tasted death for die in their sins and experience for eternity Gods Wrath" is inscrutable.

What I said friend is pretty cut and dry.

 

[brightfame52]

The basis of communication with others is their understanding. "What it says" is avoiding the discussion.

Again, what does this mean: The death of Christ for those He tasted death for Heb 2:9 it delivered them from #1 Death, #2 the Devil, #3 Hell, #4 Gods Wrath. So how can we testify to the death of Christ and its accomplishments, f any for He tasted death for die in their sins and experience for eternity Gods Wrath ?

If you can't explain what you mean then it is by definition meaningless.

If you want to discuss, thats fine, I have been posting on this thread for a while now, lets go back to the OP and start discussing. I have been explaining my posts.

 

[jaybo]

Everyone Jesus tasted death for shall by His death be delivered from death.

No, that is not the case. Everyone will die. (That's obvious since nobody from Biblical times, or even 150 years ago, is still alive.)

We will all die, but Christians will be resurrected. (or, as Paul describes them, "fallen asleep", as Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "Furthermore, those who have fallen asleep in Christ have also perished.")

The verb κοιμάω (koimaō) literally means “sleep,” but it is often used in the Bible as a euphemism for death when speaking of believers."

 

[jaybo]

If you want to discuss, thats fine, I have been posting on this thread for a while now, lets go back to the OP and start discussing. I have been explaining my posts.

In other words, you can't explain what you wrote. Fine. I'm moving on...

 

[for_his_glory]

Agreed. Ignorance of the means of salvation by faith in Christ for billions of people who never heard of him.


True enough. God creation is enough evidence to condemn all men but the observation of creation has NO REDEMPTIVE properties. That is to say that the knowledge that God exists via the observation of His creation is insufficient for salvation. Salvation is through Christ alone. If you know of another method, please let me know what it is and give me a web site where I can study the new method of salvation better.



A lot more is known of God than from the very beginning as in the beginning little to nothing was known of Christ.





Agreed


My statement that you responded to was: To say the Christ died for everyone, which many claim is the intent of the word WORLD of John 3:16, is an absurdity. It is ignorance of the facts that clearly show that billions of people have died and not heard the gospel; said gospel being necessary for salvation.

You failed to show how Christ's death on the cross could be used for the salvation of those that never heard of Him. If you can't you must either propose another method of salvation or tell me how Christ's death for everyone without exception it not a vain purpose with NO HOPE of success for BILLIONS of death people who never heard of Christ.


Complete agreement. But the question of the thread is "Tasted death for every man".
Now, if by this one means that Christ death is able to save all men in a practical sense, in the sense that everyone born without exception has been given the knowledge necessary to decide to take advantage of Christ's death via faith, then the evidence is INDISPUTABLE that billions do not have said knowledge and therefore, without that knowledge Christ death has become a vain operation. If one believe the all mighty does things with no purpose like suffering and dying on the cross for people whom He knows will have no opportunity to acquire faith, so be it.
Summary: To die for people one knows will not or cannot take advantage of said death is vain stupidity. Like, I'm not going to jump in front of a train to push someone off the track and be killed if I know that 5 minutes later the guy I saved is going to jump in front of the next train and be killed. How stupid is that!!

Thank you for you thoughtful comments. You keep me on my toes.

Christ did taste death for everyone as he gives everyone a chance to come to Him before the door of salvation is closed forever when He returns. If He did not taste death for everyone then this would contradict scripture as God is no respecter of person. The knowledge has always been there since the beginning of Christ teaching then sending out the Apostles and all the disciples they made from generation to generation that have gone out into all the world. Man has no excuse as they reject the knowledge.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Wow. You aren't calling Abraham and Isaac unrighteous, are you?

I call EVERYONE unrighteous as I believe God when He says: Romans 3:10-12,Psalm 14:1-3,Psalm 53:1-3

I wanted to know God, and He revealed Himself to me.

I am happy for you. You've said several times that you and God as a team saved you. Congrats, if it is true that you were in part responsible (the cause) for your salvation then you can brag of your glory to God.

I thought we were discussing those in the jungle and commie' countries were the bible is banned.
Even there, if a man wants to know the truth, the truth will be revealed to him.

That's a big "IF". The bible says NO ONE SEEKS GOD, so I conclude God reveals Himself to no one because they sought Him. Also, there is no report I am aware of a missionary going to places where the gospel has never been before and finding God has reveal Christ to a person. Missionaries have gone to thousands of such people ... perhaps you can relate a story of God revealing himself to that person personally.

Had Peter died before repenting of his lie, he would have gone to the lake of fire.
But he did repent, and hopefully lived the rest of his days without more sin.

Well, he repented for that occasion. But using your proposed conditions of salvation it is conceivable that Peter told another lie and had, let's say a sudden heart attack and died before repenting for that lie and is in hell. Like, your doctrine of salvation is the LUCK OF THE DRAW to some extent. Hmmmm, what happens if one tells an unintentional lie or tells a lie and forgets about it. He never repents and goes to hell. Really sucks to have a bad memory. LOL

Hmmm, God looks down knows Joe has told a lie that He has not repented but knows Joe will repent next week. Does God decide to have Joe die now or wait a week for Joe to repent. How can we leverage this trait of God if we know God always will wait for a person to repent if He see it in that person's future ... ah, one can have eternal life by telling a lie and waiting a week to confess followed by another lie to be repented of the next week, and on and on for eternity (endless loop). (aside: ridiculous, but and interesting doctrine)

Just curious. When you say you never sin do you mean that anytime you did sin it does count as sin because you repented. (Aside: I'm astounded to meet a person who claims he never sins.... so just curious)

Aside: So many rules of how one must perform in order to be saved. I may need to hire a theological lawyer to ensure I don't miss a disqualifying salvific rule.