Tasted Death for every Man !

[rogerg]

As we all started out as "natural men", your POV indicates none will come to conversion.
But that surely isn't the case.
The love and grace of God draws those who will be Spiritual men upon their rebirth.

No, that is not what I said. It was that it is God who must be the one who translates us from natural man to saved man. According to the verse, natural man of himself CANNOT make himself reborn. We can know this because the verse tells us that things spiritual are folly to him so he cannot know them.

 

[Hopeful]

No, that is not what I said.

Sorry for the misinterpretation.

It was that it is God who must be the one who translates us from natural man to saved man. According to the verse, natural man of himself CANNOT make himself reborn. We can know this because the verse tells us that things spiritual are folly to him so he cannot know them.

Thanks be to God for giving us the intelligence to figure out what we must do...and the tools to make it happen.
Repentance from sin was a gift given to the Gentiles starting with Cornelius.
Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and for our sanctification and justification, not to mention the death of the old man, is another gift from God.
So are the gift of the Holy Ghost and all of the scriptures.
Plus writings like 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."

All of the things necessary for conversion, rebirth, and salvation are provided by God.
All we need to do is submit to His rule.

 

[rogerg]

All of the things necessary for conversion, rebirth, and salvation are provided by God.
All we need to do is submit to His rule

Hopeful,

Guess I don't have the same understanding that you do of the above. I believe it is God who is the Saviour and consequently who is the one who saves us in spite of what we may or may not do.
Anyway, enjoyed the discussion.

Roger

 

[rogerg]

At this point I would ask that you provide scripture that teaches us God alone causes us to be born again apart from hearing and believing the Gospel Message of Christ: the incorruptible seed of the word of God.

Continuation of my prior post to you. More later

[1Co 12:13 KJV]
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[2Co 1:21 - 22 KJV]
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
[2Co 5:5 KJV]
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing [is] God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[OzSpen]

Oz,
Must be nice to be judge and jury. No, it is not Roger's opinion. Look Oz, if you want to have a discussion or debate, fine but if you're going to be rude, we can terminate it now. I won't accept being called a liar. Your choice

Who's being the judge and jury now?

 

[jaybo]

Continuation of my prior post to you. More later

[1Co 12:13 KJV]
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
[2Co 1:21 - 22 KJV]
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
[2Co 5:5 KJV]
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing [is] God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Can this be translated into English?

 

[rogerg]

Can this be translated into English?

Not sure what you mean?

 

[for_his_glory]

Oz,
I don't think it is a subjective opinion at all as it was taken from what the Bible teaches about itself.

[2Ti 3:15-17 KJV]
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

When the above verses inform that Scripture is able to make wise unto salvation, it is also telling us at the same time, that the process by which to rightly divide it is (and must be) included within the Bible itself and can only be achieved by following the guidelines the Bible sets-forth for its own interpretation. If those guidelines are followed (by those to whom they were intended), the Word of Truth (the Bible,) the result will be rightly divided biblical doctrine. The Bible is fully self-contained. The guidelines I provided were taken directly from the Bible so their value cannot be questioned. Should anyone attempt to use any procedures that are not directly from the Bible (and solely from the Bible) to understand the Bible, they place themselves into great spiritual jeopardy. If you are saying we should trust something outside of it to teach us how to interpret and understand it, I would say you would make a very grave mistake - don't rely on man to add a level of wisdom to the Bible by thinking they are wiser. Many would-be biblical scholars fall into that trap - they think they know more about the Bible than the Bible does. The Bible cannot lie or mislead about itself.

Timothy 2:15 means we should find in the Bible, the spiritual meaning, not the earthly meaning, in order to understand the mysteries of the kingdom

Have you ever heard of suggested learning being indoctrinated by that which one believes to be truth?

 

[rogerg]

Have you ever heard of suggested learning being indoctrinated by that which one believes to be truth?

Nope, never have. You?

 

[for_his_glory]

He does so according to, and at a time of, His choosing and good pleasure. Generally, that it has occurred it is made known to us through an ongoing change to our attitudes, perceptions and understanding regarding things spiritual. I do not think this to be just an off/on condition but is continuing and growing within us throughout our lives.

Faith comes by hearing and If one has never heard of God or Jesus then how can they change their attitude towards them?

If you never learned the color blue or ever heard that word than how would you know what color the sky is.

 

[for_his_glory]

Nope, never have. You?

Yes I have and it is seen in the forums many times when various doctrines of man are being taught by those who do not realize how indoctrinated and influenced they are by what others have taught them that comes against scripture.

 

[rogerg]

Yes I have and it is seen in the forums many times when various doctrines of man are being taught by those who do not realize how indoctrinated and influenced they are by what others have taught them that comes against scripture.

I've supported everything I've written with Scripture. It was not derived from, or by, the influence of anyone

 

[JLB]

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

This Scripture shows us that that being being again of incorruptible seed is the direct result of the “word” of God; the Gospel Message of Christ.




JLB

 

[JLB]

He does so according to, and at a time of, His choosing and good pleasure. Generally, that it has occurred it is made known to us through an ongoing change to our attitudes, perceptions and understanding regarding things spiritual. I do not think this to be just an off/on condition but is continuing and growing within us throughout our lives.

Wherein the scriptures does it say this?


That would mean Paul was sent out by the Spirit, through Jesus Christ to suffer, and eventually die in bringing the Gospel to those already born again, rather than the lost.



John 3:16 directly and contextually correlates being born again with believing the gospel message of Christ.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:6-16



Being born again, which is being born of the Spirit, and receiving eternal life, is the result of believing the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.






JLB

 

[JLB]

[1Co 12:13 KJV]
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many.
1 Corinthians 12:12-14


This refers to being baptized into the body of Christ, and being partakers of the same Spirit.


Are you teaching the brothers and sisters of this Christian Forum that being baptized into the Lord Jesus Christ has nothing to do with hearing and believing the Gospel?

That God just somehow does it and we are unaware of what is going on, having never heard the Gospel and never repented?







JLB

 

[JLB]

I've supported everything I've written with Scripture. It was not derived from, or by, the influence of anyone

You haven’t supported anything you have said with scripture. You have taken a verse here and a verse there and applied it to your own predetermined “doctrine”, as I showed in post 1273.






JLB

 

[rogerg]

You haven’t supported anything you have said with scripture. You have taken a verse here and a verse there and applied it to your own predetermined “doctrine”, as I showed in post 1273.

A verse here and a verse there? What did you expect me to do, type the whole Bible into my post? What I included within my post was clear and focused, but whatever. Guess there's not much to discuss so as far as I'm concerned, we're done

 

[OzSpen]

[Jhn 6:65-66 KJV]
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Roger,

It's too bad you didn't go on further in John's Gospel to John 12:32 (ESV): "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Oz

 

[rogerg]

This Scripture shows us that that being being again of incorruptible seed is the direct result of the “word” of God; the Gospel Message of Christ.

In this context the verse does not represent the Gospel message - just so you know for future reference, the "word of God" here is Christ not Scripture. And this is about as far as I'm going to go in replying to you for this topic.

[Rev 19:13 KJV]
13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

 

[JLB]

A verse here and a verse there? What did you expect me to do, type the whole Bible into my post? What I included within my post was clear and focused, but whatever. Guess there's not much to discuss so as far as I'm concerned, we're done

Actually we are not done.

Your doctrine of being born again apart from hearing and believing the Gospel is not biblical.

What I included within my post was clear and focused, but whatever.

It may have been clear to you, but to those of us who believe and know the truth, it was a case of you projecting your own theology onto the scriptures.


As I said in my previous post…

John 3:16 directly and contextually correlates being born again with believing the gospel message of Christ.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:6-16



Being born again, which is being born of the Spirit, and receiving eternal life, is the result of believing the Gospel message of Jesus Christ.






JLB