Tasted Death for every Man !

[rogerg]

Most of the time I find your posts informative, but when you say that salvation is not available to everyone you are 110% wrong. A few chapters back in John's gospel it says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." NIV (If you're one of those meshuganah KJVO's: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.)

Gee, thank you, jaybo, I'll take the "informative" comment as a positive whether it was meant that way or not.
I don't think I am wrong about the availability of salvation - that it is not available to everyone for a multitude of reasons. If it were, then salvation would have to be dependent upon the person, not upon Christ, who alone is the Saviour. For someone to save, they would have to accomplish absolutely everything needed for salvation, omitting nothing which is what Christ did. So, if it truly available to everyone as you say, then they who become saved must do something that separates them (spiritually speaking) from those who don't become saved - which means a work (or works) on their part - a work that is acceptable to God. But we know that we that can't be saved by our works, just the opposite in fact, by trying to do so, shows that the doer as still being under God's wrath. There are many, many verses in the Bible that support the doctrine of limited atonement. but here are just a few:

[Rom 9:11 KJV]
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

[Rom 9:8, 15-16, 18-24 KJV]
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. ...

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

[Eph 1:1-5,7 KJV]
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace [be] to you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, ...
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

[rogerg]

Let's see how he answers my last post's question about the parameters God uses to pick who He will save.
Shall we?

which post? give me a number

 

[rogerg]

Let's see how he answers my last post's question about the parameters God uses to pick who He will save.
Shall we?

The criteria are whomever is His good pleasure to save. Nothing more. He's God, He can do that - He is not compelled to explain or justify His actions or decisions. See my reply to jaybo - the Romans part of it.

 

[for_his_glory]

If you mean that hearing and believing in and of yourself, is what causes you to be born-again - no way possible.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hearing and believing has to be within ourself as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Cool your jets - one of Christ's names is The Word of God. The word of God is also in the Bible but not having the same meaning as Rev 19:13

[Rev 19:13 KJV] 13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

The verse that was under discussion used the form of it as being Christ's name, not as the Gospel

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
John 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

gospel: the teaching or revelation of Christ. The record of Jesus life and teachings in the four gospel

It's not one of His names, but that Jesus is the word of God come in the flesh found in the four gospels of Hs teachings.

 

[for_his_glory]

If God didn't make those whom He has chosen to come to Him through Christ, no one would, so we are very blessed that He does.

Salvation is NOT available to everyone:

[Jhn 6:36-39 KJV]
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

You need the full context for full understanding. Here is the rest continuing with vs. 40

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
John 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
John 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

God draws/calls us to Him, but it is up to us to accept His drawing us or ignore Him and go about our own way. God's salvation is to all who will answer and open the door

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Quick thinking with the mind of theology you are sitting under and start asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the scriptures to you. They who will believe, as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, are the whosoever in John 3:16.

 

[for_his_glory]

The justice is that everyone has sinned from the womb onwards in God's eyes. We are all estranged from God from the womb because of our sin - we are born with it.

How does a new born baby sin? We are all estranged from the womb because of the sin nature we are born with because of the fall of Adam.

We are all born with a sin nature and not imputed with Adam's sin as scripture does not support this. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, that's a fact. But, to those who are of Christ need to get up every morning and crucify this flesh and walk in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh. No one has to sin like it's some kind of command to do so as it's a freewill choice to fall to the temptation to sin.

Even a Spiritually born again child of God will mess up at times as we are still mortal living in this fleshly body where the sin nature dwells. Grace does not give us a license to sin, but when we do we have an intercessor (Christ Jesus) before the Father who makes intercession for us and forgives our sin when we repent of them. There will always be a struggle between the flesh and the Spirit and sometimes the flesh will win a battle, but never the war as flesh and Spirit can not mix.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

But, if we willfully sin then there is no more sacrifice for sins we commit as it will bring with it consequences brought upon our self.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

 

[rogerg]

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Yes but the " believe with the heart" is the problem (so to speak).

(there's a better verse than this one - in Romans somewhere - but can't seem to locate it now), anyway,

[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

So, for the natural man, belief from the heart is not possible until the heart (and therefore the man), becomes changed, and only God can do that, but only does so to those whom He has chosen for such. Further, to just confess without believing, means nothing - a change of heart must be its basis.

[Psa 51:5, 10 KJV]
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. ...
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

 

[jaybo]

How does a new born baby sin? We are all estranged from the womb because of the sin nature we are born with because of the fall of Adam.

We are all born with a sin nature and not imputed with Adam's sin as scripture does not support this. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, that's a fact. But, to those who are of Christ need to get up every morning and crucify this flesh and walk in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh. No one has to sin like it's some kind of command to do so as it's a freewill choice to fall to the temptation to sin.

Even a Spiritually born again child of God will mess up at times as we are still mortal living in this fleshly body where the sin nature dwells. Grace does not give us a license to sin, but when we do we have an intercessor (Christ Jesus) before the Father who makes intercession for us and forgives our sin when we repent of them. There will always be a struggle between the flesh and the Spirit and sometimes the flesh will win a battle, but never the war as flesh and Spirit can not mix.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

But, if we willfully sin then there is no more sacrifice for sins we commit as it will bring with it consequences brought upon our self.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Great post!

 

[for_his_glory]

is it a loving God who only picks every two hundredth man for salvation?

Where do you get this from? Does God sit on His throne counting every two hundredth man and says, OK I will save him, but the 199th or 201 I reject?

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't think I am wrong about the availability of salvation - that it is not available to everyone for a multitude of reasons. If it were, then salvation would have to be dependent upon the person, not upon Christ, who alone is the Saviour.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Just by this verse alone, as there are many, it teaches that we have to open the door in order to receive God's free gift of faith through Christ Jesus that is our salvation.

This verse does not say I only knock at a few doors, but skip others. It says Jesus stands at everyone's door, but not everyone will opened it and keep Jesus shut out of their lives by the choice they make.

 

[rogerg]

How does a new born baby sin? We are all estranged from the womb because of the sin nature we are born with because of the fall of Adam.

Yes, in a sense, from/by Adam and Eve (although, I may not have fully understood your point)

But, if we willfully sin then there is no more sacrifice for sins we commit as it will bring with it consequences brought upon our self.

We are all born with a sin nature and not imputed with Adam's sin as scripture does not support this. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, that's a fact. But, to those who are of Christ need to get up every morning and crucify this flesh and walk in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh. No one has to sin like it's some kind of command to do so as it's a freewill choice to fall to the temptation to sin.

Have you considered these verses?

[1Co 15:55-57 KJV]
55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory
56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Rom 7:8 KJV]
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.

[Rom 4:15 KJV]
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

[Gal 3:13 KJV]
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:

[Rom 7:4 KJV]
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Spiritually speaking, I believe there are only two laws that are pertinent and applicable to us. I believe the following verse defines for us those laws. Notice that the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" itself and alone, makes one free from the "law of sin and death", and nothing that anyone can do can contribute to it.

[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

If by the "crucify the flesh" statement above, you imply that the doing of that can bring salvation to the doer, I would respectfully suggest the above verses say otherwise. Christ has without exception, achieved and given everything necessary for salvation to those whom He has chosen for it with nothing yet remaining. Therefore, regarding salvation, we are to find rest in Him (the ceasing from our actions) by/in having full trust in His offering.

 

[rogerg]

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Yeah, but only those whom God has given spiritual ears to hear, can hear His voice. I think that spiritual hearing is the hearing in that is view, not physical hearing. Spiritual hearing comes from being born again by the Holy Spirit. Only those elected by God to salvation are born again. Plese observe

[Mat 13:16 KJV] 16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

 

[GodsGrace]

How does a new born baby sin? We are all estranged from the womb because of the sin nature we are born with because of the fall of Adam.

We are all born with a sin nature and not imputed with Adam's sin as scripture does not support this. All have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, that's a fact. But, to those who are of Christ need to get up every morning and crucify this flesh and walk in the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lust of the flesh. No one has to sin like it's some kind of command to do so as it's a freewill choice to fall to the temptation to sin.

Even a Spiritually born again child of God will mess up at times as we are still mortal living in this fleshly body where the sin nature dwells. Grace does not give us a license to sin, but when we do we have an intercessor (Christ Jesus) before the Father who makes intercession for us and forgives our sin when we repent of them. There will always be a struggle between the flesh and the Spirit and sometimes the flesh will win a battle, but never the war as flesh and Spirit can not mix.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

But, if we willfully sin then there is no more sacrifice for sins we commit as it will bring with it consequences brought upon our self.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

I'd just like to add, to a perfect post, that babies are not responsible for having the sin nature. It is not imputed to them, as you've stated.

We become responsible for our sins when we reach the age of reason...whatever that may be, which is different for each person.

And some never reach this age for mentally challenged reasons.
God loves those too, God loves all His creation because He IS love.
1 John 4:8

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes but the " believe with the heart" is the problem (so to speak).

(there's a better verse than this one - in Romans somewhere - but can't seem to locate it now), anyway,

[Jer 17:9 KJV] 9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

So, for the natural man, belief from the heart is not possible until the heart (and therefore the man), becomes changed, and only God can do that, but only does so to those whom He has chosen for such. Further, to just confess without believing, means nothing - a change of heart must be its basis.

[Psa 51:5, 10 KJV]
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. ...
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

You are contradicting yourself with Psalms 51:5 then jumping down to vs. 10 trying to prove your point. David recognizes he is a sinful man and from vs.1-17 he is asking God for a new clean heart, a new beginning. Take note what David said "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." What David/we sacrificed to God was his broken spirit and a broken contrite heart as he felt his quilt. Other words he was expressing remorse or penitence as he was convicted by his quilt.

Were we not all born a natural man/woman at one time? By what you are saying throughout this thread is that the natural man has no chance to receive God's salvation, but yet, scripture teaches us how to turn away from the natural man into the Spiritual man of God when we are convicted of our sinful ways. Many just ignore the conviction and remain in their sin, even though Christ died for our sin so that whosoever will believe in Him will have eternal life with Him.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, in a sense, from/by Adam and Eve (although, I may not have fully understood your point)

my point was obvious, how does a baby sin?

 

[rogerg]

Were we not all born a natural man/woman at one time? By what you are saying throughout this thread is that the natural man has no chance to receive God's salvation,

We are all born as natural man but God converts some from that so being born in that state doesn't mean someone can't be saved. Since Christ is the Saviour, He (not us) must do the saving

 

[rogerg]

my point was obvious, how does a baby sin?

Not obvious to me. Anyway, that was God's statement, so if you disagree, you should take it up with him. Having said that, I think that in our hearts as natural man, we are all born with a heart with a desire to work the works of law for salvation. To do so, even to desire it, is a sin in God's eyes.

As far as contradicting myself, you're going to have to clarify because I don't see it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeah, but only those whom God has given spiritual ears to hear, can hear His voice. I think that spiritual hearing is the hearing in that is view, not physical hearing. Spiritual hearing comes from being born again by the Holy Spirit. Only those elected by God to salvation are born again. Plese observe

[Mat 13:16 KJV] 16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Of course scripture is speaking of spiritual hearing.
It's the difference between hearing with the ears and hearing with the heart.
Some hear with the ears and there it remains...
Some move the hearing down to their heart and they become lovers of God.

The problem here Roger, is that your faith system must teach that one becomes regenerated first and then becomes born again.

How does Matthew 13:16 support the idea that we are regenerated before we are born again? It doesn't. Nothing in scripture does. It's a man-made doctrine to support the teaching of Unconditional Election. And perhaps even compatible free will...which is also not biblical.

Please tell me the Ordo Salutis in the following:

Acts 20:32
. 32“And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

We go to God.
He builds us up.
We are sanctified.
We receive the inheritance.

Acts 16:30-31
30and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved,

First we believe in Jesus,
Then we are saved.

Acts 11:17
17“Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?”

We get the gift of the Holy Spirit
AFTER believing in the Lord.
First we believe,
Then we are saved and receive the Spirit.
Not the other way around...

Acts 11:18
18When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, “Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life.”

Repentance leads to life...
We do not get life first and then repent.

Many other verses Roger.
We do not become born again to become born again.
It is illogical.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, in a sense, from/by Adam and Eve (although, I may not have fully understood your point)




Have you considered these verses?

[1Co 15:55-57 KJV]
55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory
56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Rom 7:8 KJV]
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.

[Rom 4:15 KJV]
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

[Gal 3:13 KJV]
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:

[Rom 7:4 KJV]
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Spiritually speaking, I believe there are only two laws that are pertinent and applicable to us. I believe the following verse defines for us those laws. Notice that the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" itself and alone, makes one free from the "law of sin and death", and nothing that anyone can do can contribute to it.

[Rom 8:2 KJV] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

If by the "crucify the flesh" statement above, you imply that the doing of that can bring salvation to the doer, I would respectfully suggest the above verses say otherwise. Christ has without exception, achieved and given everything necessary for salvation to those whom He has chosen for it with nothing yet remaining. Therefore, regarding salvation, we are to find rest in Him (the ceasing from our actions) by/in having full trust in His offering.

Do we willingly continue in our sins once we are Spiritually born again from above? No, for if we do then there is no more sacrifice for sin, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Hebrews 10:26-27.

We now have an Advocate (Christ Jesus) that sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us when we do sin at times. 1John 2:1-2. Grace does not give us a license to sin, but yet being housed in this fleshly body that is still mortal and corruptible where the sin nature dwells we will stumble at times. We are only being made perfect until we receive perfection in Christ when our redemption draws near in the coming of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 15:51-55.

1Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

The word "holiness" means set apart or purposefully different. It doesn't mean "perfection". God being holy and perfect means He is completely different than the imperfect world we live in and He is perfect, meaning He upholds every aspect of righteousness all the time because He is God. It is that same perfection that is seen in the Father that we strive for everyday of our lives here on earth. We are made righteous by that of God's righteousness as our own is as a filthy rag to God.

While here on earth we do strive to be holy as we draw closer to God and learn of Him, but yet we will never achieve full perfection until this corruptible puts on incorruption, and this mortal puts on immortality. This can only happen when Christ returns and we are changed by the Holy Spirit to be then made perfect as we are caught up into the clouds to meet Jesus in the air.

God knows we will stumble and fall short at times as we are yet humans, but God is greater than the mistakes we make and is always there to pick us up, dust us off and set our feet straight again when we humble ourselves before Him. All our sins have been forgiven and we have been made clean again in our spirit by the blood of Christ as we are Spiritually born again from above and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30.

That which you struggle with in this world the battle belongs to the Lord and He will always walk with you no matter what you are going through as He will bring you out victorious over the enemy that tries to buffet us.

2 Corinthians 12:9 Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
2 Corinthians 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

 

[GodsGrace]

We are all born as natural man but God converts some from that so being born in that state doesn't mean someone can't be saved. Since Christ is the Saviour, He (not us) must do the saving

I don't know any Christian that does not believe that it is God doing the saving.
God planned for our salvation because He knew Adam would fail.
God sent His Son to the cross so He could be our atonement.
Salvation, justification, is completely a work of God.

Problem is:
Do you believe faith is a work?

The N.T. makes abundantly clear that faith is NOT a work.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

It's through God' grace toward us that He pardons our sins when we adhere to the condition He has set...
The only condition not being a work...but having faith in Jesus.

We are saved BY GRACE, through faith AND IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.


And who can request this gift?
EVERYONE who wishes to...
Acts 17:30
30“Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,

We repent and are saved.
We are not saved and then repent.