Tasted Death for every Man !

[JLB]

the "word of God" here is Christ not Scripture.

I never said it was scripture; the word, refer to the Gospel of your salvation.


The word of God refers to the Gospel; the truth we all must obey by the Spirit in order to become born again.


In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13



No one is born again, apart from believing and therefore obeying the truth, the gospel of your salvation.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
1 Peter 1:22-23


The truth, the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation is how we are born again.






JLB

 

[rogerg]

Your doctrine of being born again apart from hearing and believing the Gospel is not biblical.

If you mean that hearing and believing in and of yourself, is what causes you to be born-again - no way possible. And as far as that you "know and believe the truth", if you don't recognize that Christ is the Saviour, which in effect is what you claim, then no, you don't know the truth. The problem with you JLB, is that you just can't let go of trusting in works for salvation. You always need to include in one form or another.
Anyway, I get to say we're done, not you - and yes, we're done.

 

[rogerg]

The word of God refers to the Gospel; the truth we all must obey by the Spirit in order to become born again.

No, It does not mean "gospel" in the context of the verse you referenced. It is the name of Christ Himself

 

[JLB]

If you mean that hearing and believing in and of yourself, is what causes you to be born-again - no way possible. And as far as that you "know and believe the truth", if you don't recognize that Christ is the Saviour, which in effect is what you claim, then no, you don't know the truth. The problem with you JLB, is that you just can't let go of trusting in works for salvation. You always need to include in one form or another.
Anyway, I get to say we're done, not you - and yes, we're done.

I mean hearing and believing and therefore obeying the Gospel is how we are born again, saved, regenerated, born of the Spirit…


God’s grace, His Spirit empowers us to believe and therefore obey the Gospel, in which we confess Jesus as Lord, and thus turning away from Satan as our Lord, thereby being transferred into the kingdom of God and coming under the dominion of Jesus Christ because we have been set free from the dominion of darkness.


Here are the biblical steps:

• How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed
• And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
• And how shall they hear without a preacher?
• And how shall they preach unless they are sent?
  
  As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:14-17

• So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Again we see the “word of God” refers to the Gospel Message of salvation.





JLB

 

[JLB]

No, It does not mean "gospel" in the context of the verse you referenced. It is the name of Christ Himself

The word of God refers to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as the context shows.



But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17



Same thing here: Context


To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into.
Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
because
“All flesh is as grass,
And all the glory of man as the flower of the grass.
The grass withers,
And its flower falls away,
But the word of the LORD endures forever.”
Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.
1 Peter 1:12-25



We are born again through hearing and believing the gospel.






JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful,

Guess I don't have the same understanding that you do of the above. I believe it is God who is the Saviour and consequently who is the one who saves us in spite of what we may or may not do.
Anyway, enjoyed the discussion.

Roger

I don't think God forces people to come to Him.
What kind of love could He expect in return?

Salvation is available to all men, and some rejoice to submit to Him.

 

[jaybo]

I don't think God forces people to come to Him.
What kind of love could He expect in return?

Salvation is available to all men, and some rejoice to submit to Him.

... and to women also.

 

[for_his_glory]

I've supported everything I've written with Scripture. It was not derived from, or by, the influence of anyone

Anyone can take a scripture here and there and make it say what they want, but if you do not know the full context of what is being taught then there is no real understanding.

Here is an example in these verses below. I can post one verse that says Jesus wept, but if you do not give the full context of why He wept, even in these verses then there is no full understanding. I hope you see the point I am trying to make. When we preconceive that of what others teach us and then go read the verse they use then we are leaning on their understanding and not that which has already been written.

Luke 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
John 11:35 Jesus wept.
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

 

[for_his_glory]

just so you know for future reference, the "word of God" here is Christ not Scripture.

What!!! Scripture is the word of God in what God gave Jesus to speak and then gave to the Disciples/Apostles to write.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

2Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[rogerg]

What!!! Scripture is the word of God in what God gave Jesus to speak and then gave to the Disciples/Apostles to write.

Cool your jets - one of Christ's names is The Word of God. The word of God is also in the Bible but not having the same meaning as Rev 19:13

[Rev 19:13 KJV] 13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

The verse that was under discussion used the form of it as being Christ's name, not as the Gospel

 

[rogerg]

I don't think God forces people to come to Him.
What kind of love could He expect in return?

Salvation is available to all men, and some rejoice to submit to Him.

If God didn't make those whom He has chosen to come to Him through Christ, no one would, so we are very blessed that He does.

Salvation is NOT available to everyone:

[Jhn 6:36-39 KJV]
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

 

[Hopeful]

If God didn't make those whom He has chosen to come to Him through Christ, no one would, so we are very blessed that He does.

That may be your perspective, but not mine.

Salvation is NOT available to everyone:
[Jhn 6:36-39 KJV]
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

So much for twelve men, to accomplish a single mission.
How can God condemn those who He has not given to Jesus?
Where is the fairness in that?
Where is the justice?

 

[rogerg]

So much for twelve men, to accomplish a single mission.
How can God condemn those who He has not given to Jesus?
Where is the fairness in that?
Where is the justice?

The justice is that everyone has sinned from the womb onwards in God's eyes. We are all estranged from God from the womb because of our sin - we are born with it.

[Psa 58:3 KJV]
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

All are of the "wicked" until and unless becoming saved, where our sin is removed by Christ. We may not recognize it that way, but that doesn't mean it isn't there, or that we aren't guilty. Law is law.

 

[GodsGrace]

That may be your perspective, but not mine.

So much for twelve men, to accomplish a single mission.
How can God condemn those who He has not given to Jesus?
Where is the fairness in that?
Where is the justice?

I fear that rogerg is tired of hearing about fairness and justice.

Also, it can be said that Jesus is the Word of God - haven't followed along so maybe in the case being discussed it means scripture.
Jesus is more than the Word,,, He's the Logos.

Logos is God"s reasoning, His thought, His spoken word.

In the beginning was the Word...

 

[rogerg]

That may be your perspective, but not mine.

Did you read the verses included in my reply? They weren't Roger's words; they were God's from the Bible.

 

[GodsGrace]

The justice is that everyone has sinned from the womb onwards in God's eyes. We are all estranged from God from the womb because of our sin - we are born with it.

[Psa 58:3 KJV]
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

All are of the "wicked" until and unless becoming saved, where our sin is removed by Christ. We may not recognize it that way, but that doesn't mean it isn't there, or that we aren't guilty. Law is law.

Roger
God is a very just God.
But in your faith system He is not just at all.

Justice simply means to give to each person what they deserve.

So,,,,if God be just He would have to do 1 of 3
Choices:

1. Send everyone to hell because we're born wicked and lost.

2. Send everyone to heaven because God is also merciful, and just so He treats everyone with mercy.

3. He sets up a system whereby He gives us the choice to be saved or not.
If we wish to be saved we adhere by John 3:16,
If not, we remain lost. Our choice.

Which do you think a JUST God would do?



Which do you think a Just God would do?

 

[jaybo]

If God didn't make those whom He has chosen to come to Him through Christ, no one would, so we are very blessed that He does.

Salvation is NOT available to everyone:

[Jhn 6:36-39 KJV]
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Most of the time I find your posts informative, but when you say that salvation is not available to everyone you are 110% wrong. A few chapters back in John's gospel it says, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." NIV (If you're one of those meshuganah KJVO's: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.)

On another point: for whom did Jesus die, in your opinion? Are you believing that His sacrifice excluded some people?

I am asking you to show more clearly why you think some people are excluded from Christ.

 

[Hopeful]

The justice is that everyone has sinned from the womb onwards in God's eyes. We are all estranged from God from the womb because of our sin - we are born with it.

There have been several who have walked with God and not suffered for sin.
Enoch and John the Baptist come to mind.
Our POVs differ.

[Psa 58:3 KJV]
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
All are of the "wicked" until and unless becoming saved, where our sin is removed by Christ. We may not recognize it that way, but that doesn't mean it isn't there, or that we aren't guilty. Law is law.

Why would God, or His Son, deny a man the right to reconcile?
Even if they all did start off wicked, and most have, is it a loving God who only picks every two hundredth man for salvation?
Can you elaborate on the parameters God uses to offer the ability to get right with Him?
How does a man "get lucky"?

 

[Hopeful]

I fear that rogerg is tired of hearing about fairness and justice.

Also, it can be said that Jesus is the Word of God - haven't followed along so maybe in the case being discussed it means scripture.
Jesus is more than the Word,,, He's the Logos.

Logos is God"s reasoning, His thought, His spoken word.

In the beginning was the Word...

Let's see how he answers my last post's question about the parameters God uses to pick who He will save.
Shall we?

 

[Hopeful]

Did you read the verses included in my reply? They weren't Roger's words; they were God's from the Bible.

Yes, I read them, and I realized of whom Jesus spoke...His disciples.
But I don't feel we can eliminate 75% of the world from the opportunity of salvation on that basis.
You see the potentially "saved" as preordained.
I see them as the desperate who will cling to the "raft" till the end.
You don't offer a "raft".