Tasted Death for every Man !

[Randy]

Your answer is wrong, and I have explained why.

In reply 1458 I read only wrong answer. I have alot experience with people not liking my answers but "everyone" is clear to me. So the possibility of tasting death for everyone as in "might" is a false premise to you?

 

[TahitiRun]

He tasted death for every man. The immediate context clarifies who the every man are in Heb 2:9-10

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 “For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. The suffering here culminates into His death in Vs 9

He tasted death for everyone of the many sons, that is supported by the immediate context.

The context was defined in Heb. 2:8.

Heb 2:8 all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now not yet do we see the all things subjected to him,

That is the context that leads into Heb 2:9-10. We know this because the next phrase (v.9) starts with the article+particle that links the previous phrase to it: τὸν δὲ....

We just don't see the all things, as yet, under subjection to Christ. Nonetheless, all things are objectively subjected to Him through His death, even though we do not see it. This includes everything that has been created with nothing left "unsubjected" to Him. This can be compared with Col 1:16-20 as well as 1Co 15:27-28 that say the same thing.

That is who, or what, Christ tasted death for: All things. That's the context.

 

[brightfame52]

In reply 1458 I read only wrong answer. I have alot experience with people not liking my answers but "everyone" is clear to me. So the possibility of tasting death for everyone as in "might" is a false premise to you?

Yeah you in error.

 

[brightfame52]

The context was defined in Heb. 2:8.

Heb 2:8 all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now not yet do we see the all things subjected to him,

That is the context that leads into Heb 2:9-10. We know this because the next phrase (v.9) starts with the article+particle that links the previous phrase to it: τὸν δὲ....

We just don't see the all things, as yet, under subjection to Christ. Nonetheless, all things are objectively subjected to Him through His death, even though we do not see it. This includes everything that has been created with nothing left "unsubjected" to Him. This can be compared with Col 1:16-20 as well as 1Co 15:27-28 that say the same thing.

That is who, or what, Christ tasted death for: All things. That's the context.

You in error. I have explained why already !

 

[TahitiRun]

You in error. I have explained why already !

I did read what you posted. Your explanation was wrong. The "many sons" are included in the all things but the all things are not limited to the things we see now.

Did you understand what I explained? It tells us right there in the text.

 

[TahitiRun]

The everyone Christ tasted death for in Heb 2:9 is everyone who is a believer, who sees[spiritually] Jesus Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The writer here includes himself and isnt speaking of the natural man or jew. The seeing here is the effects of the Holy Spirit giving sight. So Jesus tasted death for every man that is seeing Him, Jesus who came to save His Peole from their sins Matt 1:21 Its the Fathers will Jesus said Jn 6:40

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 4

You don't really understand the text. The verb (βλεπομεν) translated as "see" is in the present tense indicative mood. It's our perception of Christ's death in the here and now. However, that perception is limited to what we now "see". We do not, as yet, see the fullness of Christ's death. For as yet, not all things have been made subjected to him.

 

[TahitiRun]

The everyone Christ tasted death for in Heb 2:9 is everyone of His Bride, His Church. Eph 5:25

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

The all things that Christ tasted death for is not limited to a particular group or entity. Those groups (however many you would like to list) are included but are not limitations. And Heb 2:8 makes that abundantly clear. Christ's death was limited (if you want to call it that) to the all things subjected to Him. And Heb 2:8 unequivocally states that there is nothing that is not subjected to Him:

Heb 2:8 all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now not yet do we see the all things subjected to him,

Do you understand the last clause in the verse?

 

[TahitiRun]

Do you understand that those whom Christ tasted death for are ultimately saved, brought to Glory ? Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings[Death].

Yes, of course. All things have been reconciled to God objectively (Col 1:20 and 2Co 5:18-20) and are/will be subjectively saved and brought to glory through the death of Christ. And that is exactly what Heb 2:8-10 states.

 

[rogerg]

The context was defined in Heb. 2:8.

Heb 2:8 all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now not yet do we see the all things subjected to him,

That is the context that leads into Heb 2:9-10. We know this because the next phrase (v.9) starts with the article+particle that links the previous phrase to it: τὸν δὲ....

We just don't see the all things, as yet, under subjection to Christ. Nonetheless, all things are objectively subjected to Him through His death, even though we do not see it. This includes everything that has been created with nothing left "unsubjected" to Him. This can be compared with Col 1:16-20 as well as 1Co 15:27-28 that say the same thing.

That is who, or what, Christ tasted death for: All things. That's the context.

The "all things" subjected to Him also includes those who are to be of the non-saved - that they should not be saved falls under His prerogative too.

 

[TahitiRun]

The "all things" subjected to Him also includes those who are to be of the non-saved - that they should not be saved falls under His prerogative too.

That's an interesting objection, though it doesn't carry any weight. The text in Heb 2:8 uses the word "subjection" and that term is specifically defined further for us with a purpose-result clause, found here:

1Co 15:27 for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, it is evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
1Co 15:28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.

The purpose/result of being "subjected" to Christ is not for condemnation/death but rather for redemption/life, that God may be all in all.

Jesus tells us that God is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him:

Luk 20:38 and He is not a God of dead men, but of living, for all live to Him.'

 

[TahitiRun]

The writer of Hebrews wrote Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Now honestly, did the writer write here that Christ tasted death for all mankind without exception here ? Nope he did not. In the original man isnt in the verse:

τὸν δὲ βραχύ τι παρ᾽ ἀγγέλους ἠλαττωμένον βλέπομεν Ἰησοῦν διὰ τὸ πάθημα τοῦ θανάτου δόξῃ καὶ τιμῇ ἐστεφανωμένον ὅπως χάριτι θεοῦ ὑπὲρ παντὸς γεύσηται θανάτου

Man was added by the translators. The word pas can refer to all the whole, the sum total of all the group intended. Context is important n determining the group that the writer has in mind. Lets look at the very next verse 10

The term "man" (found in the KJV) is not the best translation, and I don't think anyone would argue otherwise. You've simply demonstrated that the king's men were unwilling to translate the text correctly.

The term "all" (πάντα) in context has no exceptions given to it (τὰ πάντα οὐδὲν ἀφῆκεν αὐτῷ ἀνυπότακτον). And should there be any doubt concerning this, the text/writer goes out of it's/his way to say "nothing" was unsubjected to Christ. IOW: Nothing was left behind.

This is one of the strongest passages of universal atonement/reconciliation/salvation given in scripture. Believe it my friend.

 

[brightfame52]

I did read what you posted. Your explanation was wrong. The "many sons" are included in the all things but the all things are not limited to the things we see now.

Did you understand what I explained? It tells us right there in the text.

My explanations are correct. What you explained is error as previously stated.

 

[brightfame52]

You don't really understand the text. The verb (βλεπομεν) translated as "see" is in the present tense indicative mood. It's our perception of Christ's death in the here and now. However, that perception is limited to what we now "see". We do not, as yet, see the fullness of Christ's death. For as yet, not all things have been made subjected to him.

You dont understand the scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

The all things that Christ tasted death for is not limited to a particular group or entity. Those groups (however many you would like to list) are included but are not limitations. And Heb 2:8 makes that abundantly clear. Christ's death was limited (if you want to call it that) to the all things subjected to Him. And Heb 2:8 unequivocally states that there is nothing that is not subjected to Him:

Heb 2:8 all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now not yet do we see the all things subjected to him,

Do you understand the last clause in the verse?

I explained who He tasted death for, its in the context.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, of course. All things have been reconciled to God objectively (Col 1:20 and 2Co 5:18-20) and are/will be subjectively saved and brought to glory through the death of Christ. And that is exactly what Heb 2:8-10 states.

All the Sons have been reconciled,, not all mankind. The lost and condemned havent been reconciled.

 

[brightfame52]

The term "man" (found in the KJV) is not the best translation, and I don't think anyone would argue otherwise. You've simply demonstrated that the king's men were unwilling to translate the text correctly.

The term "all" (πάντα) in context has no exceptions given to it (τὰ πάντα οὐδὲν ἀφῆκεν αὐτῷ ἀνυπότακτον). And should there be any doubt concerning this, the text/writer goes out of it's/his way to say "nothing" was unsubjected to Christ. IOW: Nothing was left behind.

This is one of the strongest passages of universal atonement/reconciliation/salvation given in scripture. Believe it my friend.

The devils are subjected to Christ, but He didnt tasted death for them. The angels that sinned are subject to Him, but He didnt come to taste death for angels Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

He tasted death for only a segment of mankind, the seed of Abraham, not all mankind.

And I hope you not here promoting universalism, take that somewhere else if you are.

 

[rogerg]

That's an interesting objection, though it doesn't carry any weight. The text in Heb 2:8 uses the word "subjection" and that term is specifically defined further for us with a purpose-result clause, found here:

1Co 15:27 for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, it is evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
1Co 15:28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.

The purpose/result of being "subjected" to Christ is not for condemnation/death but rather for redemption/life, that God may be all in all.

Jesus tells us that God is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him:

Luk 20:38 and He is not a God of dead men, but of living, for all live to Him.'

Wait... how can those who will not be saved also not be included within the "all things"? Even if you are of the school of belief that man can chose to save himself, which I am not, then nevertheless, those not saved are also still part of the "all things", and so, since all things belong to Christ as you say, then Christ is also responsible for those who will not be saved, not being saved, as well as for those who will be saved, becoming saved, right?
In a sense, Christ is responsible for those not being saved, by not having chosen them to salvation as "all things"
are His.

 

[TahitiRun]

The devils are subjected to Christ, but He didnt tasted death for them. The angels that sinned are subject to Him, but He didnt come to taste death for angels Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

He tasted death for only a segment of mankind, the seed of Abraham, not all mankind.

And I hope you not here promoting universalism, take that somewhere else if you are.

Christ's death redeems/reconciles all things, including evil angels, Satan, etc., in the heavenly places, as stated in these two texts:

Col 1:16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,

Eph 6:12 because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places;

All things in Col 1:16, and further defined in Eph 6:12, were created in, through and for Christ but were also reconciled to God through Christ's death:

Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile the all things to himself—having made peace through the blood of his cross—through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.

We just don't see all these things (such as unbelievers, evil angels, etc.) being subjected to him, as yet:

Heb 2:8 all things Thou didst put in subjection under his feet,' for in the subjecting to him the all things, nothing did He leave to him unsubjected, and now not yet do we see the all things subjected to him,

And Calvinism, as well as you, are wrong to deny what scripture clearly states.

Regarding Heb 2:16: The Gk. text is: οὐ γὰρ δήπου ἀγγέλων ἐπιλαμβάνεται, ἀλλὰ σπέρματος ᾿Αβραὰμ ἐπιλαμβάνεται.

It simply states that Christ did not come only for angels to lay hold of (as to help angels only, ie: spiritual beings only), but rather Christ was made like the seed of Abraham, in the flesh, like the brethren, as stated in following verse:

Heb 2:17 wherefore it did behove him in all things to be made like to the brethren, that he might become a kind and stedfast chief-priest in the things with God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people,

The Heb 2:16 passage doesn't deny any benefits achieved by the death of Christ for angels. It can't. It would need to contradict all the scriptures that speak of the all things, evil angels included, that were reconciled to God in Christ.

For the record: I'm not here to promote universalism, if scripture does that, so be it. I like to promote Christ and the glory of the Gospel to all His creation. I'm surprised you would tell someone to leave for doing that.

 

[TahitiRun]

Wait... how can those who will not be saved also not be included within the "all things"? Even if you are of the school of belief that man can chose to save himself, which I am not, then nevertheless, those not saved are also still part of the "all things", and so, since all things belong to Christ as you say, then Christ is also responsible for those who will not be saved, not being saved, as well as for those who will be saved, becoming saved, right?
In a sense, Christ is responsible for those not being saved, by not having chosen them to salvation as "all things"
are His.

Because there are no things, according to scripture, that in the end are not subjected to Christ. And that includes all the enemies of God, including death itself being done away with, for the purpose of God being all in all:

1Co 15:25 for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet—
1Co 15:26 the last enemy is done away—death;
1Co 15:27 for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, it is evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
1Co 15:28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.

And yes, all things belong to Christ (Col 1:16). For in Him we all live, move and have our being (Act 17:28).

There is nothing created in and for Christ that will be, in the end, "unsaved", as you put it.

 

[rogerg]

Because there are no things, according to scripture, that in the end are not subjected to Christ. And that includes all the enemies of God, including death itself being done away with, for the purpose of God being all in all:

1Co 15:25 for it behoveth him to reign till he may have put all the enemies under his feet—
1Co 15:26 the last enemy is done away—death;
1Co 15:27 for all things He did put under his feet, and, when one may say that all things have been subjected, it is evident that He is excepted who did subject the all things to him,
1Co 15:28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.

And yes, all things belong to Christ (Col 1:16). For in Him we all live, move and have their being (Act 17:28).

There is nothing created in and for Christ that will be, in the end, "unsaved", as you put it.

So, are you saying you think there will be no ultimate judgement of the unsaved at the end of time?