Tasted Death for every Man !

[brightfame52]

Jesus death and resurrection was for the entire world's salvation.
If some decide to refuse it, that is on them.

Thats false, Jesus tasted death only for them He brings to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

You make Christs death powerless to save ! If people He died for are lost in their sins into hell.

 

[brightfame52]

UNbelievers don't come to Christ.

Because they arent Sheep who Christ died for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

In order to believe on Christ one must be one of His Sheep that He laid down His Life for, if not, you will never believe in Him for Salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

Faith does come by hearing, so we can all thank God for the voices that illuminated us to God's grace and wisdom.

Only the Sheep will be given hearing Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[brightfame52]

Roger

It tells us that those given eternal life will know God and Christ. But not everyone has, nor does, nor will, come to know God or Christ, and consequently, they cannot be of those given eternal life.

[Jhn 17:3 KJV] 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Thats correct, a True Knowledge of God in Christ is a promised blessing of the New Covenant which Christ effected by His Blood Heb 8:10-11

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Notice thats a promise, Jesus is responsible as the covenant surety and mediator that all Gods elect given to Christ shall know the True God Jn 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[brightfame52]

roger

Actually I would state it in the reverse: that those to whom he has given mercy, believe.

I agree, when God has mercy on a unbeliever, that will change them to a believer , of course thats speaking of Gods elect as unbelievers Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all[jew and gentile elect] in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Paul as an elect vessel of mercy, obtained mercy for his unbelief 1 Tim 1:13

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
See unbelief cant prevent God in Christ from saving a person, it brings His Mercy upon them, converting them into believers by giving them faith 1 Tim 1:14
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

 

[TahitiRun]

Brightfame52,

You've indicated that I'm teaching universalism and the reason that you've been deleting all my posts. I'm simply posting scripture. I don't even have to comment on it. Scripture itself is confronting your doctrines and dogma.

You do realize that the foundation of Calvinism is built upon sand, right?

 

[rogerg]

Faith does come by hearing, so we can all thank God for the voices that illuminated us to God's grace and wisdom.

The "hearing" is spiritual hearing not human hearing and is given only to those who
have become born-again so that they can discern things of the Spirit.
Until then, there is no spiritual discernment.
This is not given to everyone but only to those who had been chosen by God.

 

[rogerg]

roger



I agree, when God has mercy on a unbeliever, that will change them to a believer , of course thats speaking of Gods elect as unbelievers Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all[jew and gentile elect] in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Paul as an elect vessel of mercy, obtained mercy for his unbelief 1 Tim 1:13

Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
See unbelief cant prevent God in Christ from saving a person, it brings His Mercy upon them, converting them into believers by giving them faith 1 Tim 1:14
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

Great point, brightfame52 but it will be lost on certain people on this thread who will be oblivious to it.

 

[rogerg]

Not true, and v.8 establishes the context that tells us there is nothing that is not subjected to Christ. And, all subjected to Christ will be saved.

"many sons": the verse says "in bringing MANY SONS unto glory"; that is, only those who are God's "sons" - those whom He had chosen to adoption, become saved. Not everyone is a son, or a child of God - it was God's divine prerogative to choose whosoever He wanted to, as sons/children to adopt them, leaving out those whom He would not choose to adopt as sons/children.
For example, look at it this way: a king can bequeath his kingdom unto his son, making him king to reign in his stead, putting everyone under his subjection, but that doesn't mean everyone put under his subjection automatically becomes sons/children too. Nor does it mean that the new king is compelled to treat non-sons as sons. As king, he has the authority to place sons/children under one law, but to keep non-sons/non-children under different law - such is the power of a true king.

Observe "SONS" in the following verse. that it is only the sons who are brought unto glory, not everyone.

[Heb 2:10 KJV] 10 For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

By the "us" (below) we are informed that the adoption is only to certain specific people, but to not everyone.

[Eph 1:5 KJV]
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Who are the "us"? Those whom God chose before the foundation of the world:

[Eph 1:4-5 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

If not already obvious, based upon the following verses, we can know that the "us" and "we"(etc) do not include everyone. Observe in them, the "death unto death" and the "life unto life". They mean for the unsaved, that physical death is unto spiritual death, but for the saved, physical life unto spiritual life.

[2Co 2:15-16 KJV]
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?

 

[TahitiRun]

"many sons": the verse says "in bringing MANY SONS unto glory"; that is, only those who are God's "sons" - those whom He had chosen to adoption, become saved. Not everyone is a son, or a child of God - it was God's divine prerogative to choose whosoever He wanted to, as sons/children to adopt them, leaving out those whom He would not choose to adopt as sons/children.
For example, look at it this way: a king can bequeath his kingdom unto his son, making him king to reign in his stead, putting everyone under his subjection, but that doesn't mean everyone put under his subjection automatically becomes sons/children too. Nor does it mean that the new king is compelled to treat non-sons as sons. As king, he has the authority to place sons/children under one law, but to keep non-sons/non-children under different law - such is the power of a true king.

Observe "SONS" in the following verse. that it is only the sons who are brought unto glory, not everyone.

[Heb 2:10 KJV] 10 For it became him, for whom [are] all things, and by whom [are] all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

By the "us" (below) we are informed that the adoption is only to certain specific people, but to not everyone.

[Eph 1:5 KJV]
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Who are the "us"? Those whom God chose before the foundation of the world:

[Eph 1:4-5 KJV]
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

If not already obvious, based upon the following verses, we can know that the "us" and "we"(etc) do not include everyone. Observe in them, the "death unto death" and the "life unto life". They mean for the unsaved, that physical death is unto spiritual death, but for the saved, physical life unto spiritual life.

[2Co 2:15-16 KJV]
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?

I'd be happy to respond but the post will be removed.

Take care.

 

[rogerg]

I'd be happy to respond but the post will be removed.

Take care.

You too

 

[JLB]

Okay then you know what I believe if you read it.

I dont know what you mean after reading your post, which is why Im asking you a simple question.

If "man" is not in the original manuscript as you claim then it would read...

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every. Hebrews 2:9 KJV

Again, if "man" or "everyone" is not in the original manuscript, then who did Jesus taste death for:

Angels?
Animals?
Other?



JLB

 

[brightfame52]

Brightfame52,

You've indicated that I'm teaching universalism and the reason that you've been deleting all my posts. I'm simply posting scripture. I don't even have to comment on it. Scripture itself is confronting your doctrines and dogma.

You do realize that the foundation of Calvinism is built upon sand, right?

You are teaching universalism, and I have asked you to please not do that in this forum. We have a forum for universalism discussions:

Universalism

Discussions on Universalism Overseen by: HSong

christianforums.net

 

[Hopeful 2]

Thats false, Jesus tasted death only for them He brings to Glory Heb 2:9-10

Only those who refuse to go along with Jesus will be doomed.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
You make Christs death powerless to save ! If people He died for are lost in their sins into hell.

Christ is the door, but we must use it.
The door will always be there, until the end of the earth,
The lost just won't use it.
Jesus' death and resurrection can surely save, but it is up to us to want to be saved.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Because they arent Sheep who Christ died for Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

In order to believe on Christ one must be one of His Sheep that He laid down His Life for, if not, you will never believe in Him for Salvation.

Sure am glad I got the choice to be a "sheep", and follow Jesus.
If I had not gotten that choice, my destruction would have been His fault.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Only the Sheep will be given hearing Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

I guess we can tell who the sheep are by their actions towards God and their neighbor.
Liars, murderers, thieves, and adulterers are obviously not His sheep.

 

[brightfame52]

Only those who refuse to go along with Jesus will be doomed.

Christ is the door, but we must use it.
The door will always be there, until the end of the earth,
The lost just won't use it.
Jesus' death and resurrection can surely save, but it is up to us to want to be saved.

The ones Jesus died for, He shall bring them to Glory. Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Now the lost into perdition, He never tasted death for them. They were the goats of mankind !

 

[brightfame52]

Only those who refuse to go along with Jesus will be doomed.

Christ is the door, but we must use it.
The door will always be there, until the end of the earth,
The lost just won't use it.
Jesus' death and resurrection can surely save, but it is up to us to want to be saved.

Christ is the door of the Sheep, not the goats Jn 10:7

Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
If we arent one of Christs Sheep, we wont and cant believe in Him since He didnt die for us, if not a Sheep. Jesus said of the confirmed unbelievers Jn 10:26
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The "hearing" is spiritual hearing not human hearing

I disagree.
Were it "spiritual" hearing there would be no need for anybody to speak it.
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" (Heb 10:14)

and is given only to those who
have become born-again so that they can discern things of the Spirit.
Until then, there is no spiritual discernment.
This is not given to everyone but only to those who had been chosen by God.

You are including the convert's growth in grace and knowledge with the initial presentation of the Lord.
Lets keep the horse in front of the cart.

 

[brightfame52]

I guess we can tell who the sheep are by their actions towards God and their neighbor.
Liars, murderers, thieves, and adulterers are obviously not His sheep.

A persons behavior has nothing to do with who Christ tasted death for, because He tasted death for the vilest of sinners. And Christ shall bring them to glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.