Tasted Death for every Man !

[rogerg]

Agreed.
Unfortunately, some that He died for don't believe it.

Nope. All those for whom Christ died - those ordained to salvation - must come to a true belief/trust in Christ as Saviour. The reverse being also true: those not ordained to eternal life cannot truly believe in Christ as Saviour

[Act 13:48 KJV] 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

 

[Hopeful 2]

That's a part of not hearing. And you didn't answer my questions about not being able to hear spiritually.



Nope. First saved/born again, and from that, faith, spiritual hearing/spiritual discernment, etc comes. Salvation brings faith and knowledge; faith and knowledge doesn't bring salvation.



All unsaved refuse the gospel. They refuse it because they were not given, nor do they possess, spiritual discernment -
that was my whole point.
Didn't you read the " neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned", part of the verse?

Of course, Paul was writing to those saved, the unsaved, being natural man, could/would not be able to
comprehend what Paul was telling them. He was providing instruction and edification to those already saved so that
they gain an understanding of their salvation. So, unless saved, natural man cannot understand.

Here, these verses explain it further. They tell us that unless someone is first born again, they do not have a spiritual mind that can perceive the things of God, and not perceiving the things of God, they will not believe in true gospel, nor desire salvation on the basis of the gospel. Therefore, only certain people - those who are given that understanding by God - can truly believe in it. As we are informed in Luk 1:77 (below), a true knowledge of salvation comes only to those whom Christ died for, by which, their sins are remitted, and they gain spiritual discernment - salvation first, discernment after.
In other words, no one can even know the true salvation unless and until their sins are first forgiven. Notice
the "unto his people". That means Christ has a certain people, and it is they alone who's sins become remitted, so remittance being only unto them, is not given to/for everyone.

[1Co 2:12 KJV] 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

In is impossible for someone to truly know salvation until and unless their sins are first remitted.

[Luk 1:77 KJV] 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

I just can't agree with a doctrine that makes missionary work unnecessary.
"God has His quota already picked out and we have nothing to do with any of it"...according to Calvin.
Kind'a makes Jesus' suffering and death on our part, pointless.

 

[Hopeful 2]

He died for everyone He brings to glory Heb 2:9-10

Agreed, but His death is available for anyone else who may not eventually repent and get washed by the blood of Christ in the future too.
They just refuse it.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
So if one doesnt get brought to Glory, He didnt taste death for them

Jesus died so all men could come to glory.
Some just want something else.

 

[rogerg]

I just can't agree with a doctrine that makes missionary work unnecessary.
"God has His quota already picked out and we have nothing to do with any of it"...according to Calvin.
Kind'a makes Jesus' suffering and death on our part, pointless.

Fine, but remember, in that case, you're under works and law, not grace.

 

[Hopeful 2]

False, the ones He tasted death for believe, thats part of the process which brings them to Glory. Its impossible for anyone Christ tasted death for not to believe.

The "credit card" is on the "table".
Some just don't want to do what is necessary to profit from it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Fine, but remember, in that case, you're under works and law, not grace.

Who cares?
God made up His mind long ago about who gets saved.
What can I do, good or bad, to ever change His mind?...(according to your doctrine)

 

[rogerg]

The "credit card" is on the "table".
Some just don't want to do what is necessary to profit from it.

But that would make man the saviour, not Christ, wouldn't it?

I'll try to reply to your post to me tomorrow.

 

[brightfame52]

Agreed, but His death is available for anyone else who may not eventually repent and get washed by the blood of Christ in the future too.
They just refuse it.

Jesus died so all men could come to glory.
Some just want something else.

Again, and you dont agree, He tasted death for them He brings to Glory, saved. Heb 2:9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

See them He died for He became the Captain of their Salvation. So He didnt die for them He didnt become the Captain of their Salvation, and brought to Glory.

 

[brightfame52]

The "credit card" is on the "table".
Some just don't want to do what is necessary to profit from it.

False, the people Christ tasted death for, it brings them to Glory, He was the Captain of their Salvation Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

He became the Captain of their Salvation through suffering/death ! Friend you are denying Christ if you say He died for the ones who perish ! Thats a false gospel

 

[rogerg]

Who cares?
God made up His mind long ago about who gets saved.
What can I do, good or bad, to ever change His mind?...(according to your doctrine)

That's what God's mercy/grace means, otherwise, it isn't mercy and grace. The alternative is that we would seek to make our actions into a quid pro quo for salvation, therefore demonstrating that we remain under works and law, and not mercy/grace, which works can never be successful in bringing salvation. Those whom God has given His mercy and grace to and who come to trust is in Christ as Saviour, not in themselves, have no desire whatsoever to return back from whence they came.
If you consider yourself a Christian, then what do you think Christ's title of Saviour means?

[Tit 3:5-6 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

 

[Hopeful 2]

But that would make man the saviour, not Christ, wouldn't it?

I'll try to reply to your post to me tomorrow.

Not at all, even though it is dependent on us to "pick up and use the credit card".
Jesus is the "credit card".
Salvation is available to all who will act on it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Again, and you dont agree, He tasted death for them He brings to Glory, saved. Heb 2:9

I agree.
But many others have forsaken the gifts available to them.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
See them He died for He became the Captain of their Salvation. So He didnt die for them He didnt become the Captain of their Salvation, and brought to Glory.

Jesus died.
Anyone who will submit to Him will be saved.
Just because most don't want to be saved, doesn't mean Jesus didn't die for them.

 

[Hopeful 2]

False, the people Christ tasted death for, it brings them to Glory, He was the Captain of their Salvation Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

He became the Captain of their Salvation through suffering/death ! Friend you are denying Christ if you say He died for the ones who perish ! Thats a false gospel

The "card" is on the table for everyone to use.

 

[Hopeful 2]

That's what God's mercy/grace means, otherwise, it isn't mercy and grace.

You make it look like the mercy is only for the few pre-chosen by God.
That isn't mercy.

The alternative is that we would seek to make our actions into a quid pro quo for salvation,

Salvation has its price.
A costly one for most.

therefore demonstrating that we remain under works and law, and not mercy/grace, which works can never be successful in bringing salvation. Those whom God has given His mercy and grace to and who come to trust is in Christ as Saviour, not in themselves, have no desire whatsoever to return back from whence they came.

Tell that to Ananias and Sapphira.

If you consider yourself a Christian, then what do you think Christ's title of Saviour means?

Jesus is the One who offers life from death.
I took the offer.
You seem to feel it was thrown at you, and you had no choice.

[Tit 3:5-6 KJV]
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Thanks be to God for making salvation available to all men.
If it wasn't available to me, I would not be a convert.

 

[rogerg]

Not at all, even though it is dependent on us to "pick up and use the credit card".
Jesus is the "credit card".
Salvation is available to all who will act on it.

No, whoever uses the credit card is the one who does the saving, at least in your example.
If there is only one thing that needs to be done for salvation, and if the person does it and he becomes saved,
and conversely, if he does not do it, and he does not become saved, then it is he who has brought salvation to himself or not, and Christ has had nothing to do with it. But the Bible makes abundantly clear that it is Jesus who is Saviour and everything pertaining to salvation is dependent upon Him and upon Him alone, not us.

 

[Hopeful 2]

No, whoever uses the credit card is the one who does the saving, at least in your example.
If there is only one thing that needs to be done for salvation, and if the person does it and he becomes saved,
and conversely, if he does not do it, and he does not become saved, then it is he who has brought salvation to himself or not, and Christ has had nothing to do with it. But the Bible makes abundantly clear that it is Jesus who is Saviour and everything pertaining to salvation is dependent upon Him and upon Him alone, not us.

Sorry you see it that way.
Without God and His Son Jesus, the "card" is just a piece of plastic.
They made repentance from sin available to Jews then Gentiles.
They made water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins available to Jews and then Gentiles.
They made the gift of the Holy Ghost available to Jews and then Gentiles.
Baptism without Jesus (or without repentance from sin) is just a bath.

If a life-guard at the pool throws you a life-ring when you are drowning, do you save yourself by grabbing onto it?
Or did he save you by throwing it to you?
BOTH were NECESSARY !

 

[rogerg]

Sorry you see it that way.
Without God and His Son Jesus, the "card" is just a piece of plastic.
They made repentance from sin available to Jews then Gentiles.
They made water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins available to Jews and then Gentiles.
They made the gift of the Holy Ghost available to Jews and then Gentiles.
Baptism without Jesus (or without repentance from sin) is just a bath.

Then it is a of a person's works, and if of works, then they are the workers of law being under law, and not under grace. It can't be both ways at the same time.

[Rom 4:4 KJV] 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

[Jas 2:10 KJV] 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

 

[rogerg]

If a life-guard at the pool throws you a life-ring when you are drowning, do you save yourself by grabbing onto it?
Or did he save you by throwing it to you?
BOTH were NECESSARY !

Bad example. A correct example would be based upon that if someone were actually dead, not drowning, but fully dead, would they be able to reach out? No, not if they're dead. If someone were lying dead, completely unable to help themselves in any way - totally oblivious, yet someone happens by with a magic antidote, administers it to him, bringing him to life, who has done it? Did the dead person do it or contribute to it in any way? No! So, who is the one responsible for bringing the dead person to life? The one with the antidote.

The Bible makes abundantly clear that before becoming saved we were spiritually dead in sin - dead, dead, oblivious to our condition, as a physically dead person is oblivious to their condition. We are unable to assist in any way with our own rescue and solely dependent upon, and at the mercy of, the rescuer. Observe:

[Eph 2:1 KJV]
1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

[Eph 2:5 KJV]
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

[Col 2:13 KJV]
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

 

[GodsGrace]

Then it is a of a person's works, and if of works, then they are the workers of law being under law, and not under grace. It can't be both ways at the same time.

[Rom 4:4 KJV] 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

[Jas 2:10 KJV] 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

Just two points:

1. The statement that everyone besides the reformed save themselves is such an old idea and a pretty silly one at that.
NO Christian believes he saves himself.
Difficult to understand how the reformed come up with this idea.
I guess your theologians sure do state it enough times - and it's never questioned.
It's pretty silly, to say the least.

2. You don't seem to understand Hopeful 2 s point by posting, AGAIN, the above regarding works.

Why post anything about works AT ALL, IF it is God that is going to choose who is to be saved and who is to be doomed? IOW, there is nothing we can do to save ourselves - not with works, not with grace, not with anything.

We just sit around and wait to see if God picks us.

So your works verses are moot.

 

[rogerg]

Just two points:

1. The statement that everyone besides the reformed save themselves is such an old idea and a pretty silly one at that.
NO Christian believes he saves himself.
Difficult to understand how the reformed come up with this idea.
I guess your theologians sure do state it enough times - and it's never questioned.
It's pretty silly, to say the least.

2. You don't seem to understand Hopeful 2 s point by posting, AGAIN, the above regarding works.

Why post anything about works AT ALL, IF it is God that is going to choose who is to be saved and who is to be doomed? IOW, there is nothing we can do to save ourselves - not with works, not with grace, not with anything.

We just sit around and wait to see if God picks us.

So your works verses are moot.

You understand neither salvation, nor grace, nor Christ. I thought I had you on ignore.
Not sure how you slipped by.