Tasted Death for every Man !

[rogerg]

Jesus died only for those (some)

Heb 2.9 by Gods grace (eph2:8) he might taste death for everyone...

Why does this say Everyone? If thats not true...

Read my reply 2120. The instructions He included in the Bible He put there for a reason, not arbitrarily

 

[rogerg]

If God gave his son so that whoever believes on his name might be saved...

This cant be true.... it should say... that only some can believe on his name and be saved

God does say that - but in different verses. For example:

[Jhn 12:37, 39 KJV] 37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: ...
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

 

[brightfame52]

Who will be saved ?
Me.
Does that mean I get the glory for my salvation?
No.
Who will worship me ?
Nobody.
God gets the "credit" and glory for my obedience to Him.
The servant is happy to serve the Master.

Haven't you been paying attention ? Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

All whom Christ tasted death for shall be saved, shall be taken to Glory !

Of course you dont believe that, you attribute salvation to man

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus died only for those (some)

Heb 2.9 by Gods grace (eph2:8) he might taste death for everyone...

Why does this say Everyone? If thats not true...

But it is true, He tasted death for everyone He tasted death for !

 

[rogerg]

So why tell anyone about Christ since its not dependent on me and their either already going to heaven or not...

If God has already decided on them going (to heaven) then nothing I dont do wont change that...

If Gods has already decided on them going to lake of fire then nothing I do will change that...

The sharing of Christian doctrine is how the elect learn Christian doctrine. No one wakes up one morning knowing everything about it - we must all be taught - in fact, taught throughout our entire lifetimes. However, the elect will hear the voice of the Shepard in those doctrine and will therefore respond and follow them. The non-elect on the other hand, not hearing Him, will be counted against them.

[Jhn 10:4-5 KJV]
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

[Eph 4:12-14 KJV]
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

[2Co 2:15-16 KJV]
15 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16 To the one [we are] the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who [is] sufficient for these things?

 

[brightfame52]

So why tell anyone about Christ since its not dependent on me and their either already going to heaven or not...

If God has already decided on them going (to heaven) then nothing I dont do wont change that...

If Gods has already decided on them going to lake of fire then nothing I do will change that...

The Gospel is to be declared

No he gives credit because he believed on His name for the grace offered... God's grace thru our faith in Jesus.

We believed on His name... faith is not a work..

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me...

We have to open the door. We have to believe

I see you give man the credit for getting salvation, but Christ for merely making it possible, so in your scheme man is his own saviour.

 

[Kermos]

Therefore, the Spirit guides and compels the believer to do the right thing, to live a sanctified life of righteousness and love, but for that to happen the believer is responsible continue in his faith and so:



Drink (John 7:37-38),

Live (Galatians 5:24-25),

Walk (Romans 8:3-4; Galatians 5:25), and

Sow (Galatians 6:7-9)” to the Spirit without giving up.



Galatians 6:7-9 (WEB) [Writing to the Christians in Galatia] 7 Do not be deceived. God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption. But he who sows to the Spirit will {{{from the Spirit}}} reap eternal life. 9 Let {{{us}}} not be weary in doing good, for {{{we}}} will reap in due season, {{{if we}}} do not give up.



Romans 8:12-14 (ENIV) 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, {{{we}}} have {{{an obligation}}} – but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit {{{you}}} put to death the misdeeds of the body, {{{you}}} will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.



The Spirit leads, but only as the believers continue in the faith, diligent to "drink," "live," "walk," and "sow" to the Spirit dwelling in the believers. The Spirit dwelling in believers will give them eternal life, but only as they continue to sow to the Spirit without giving up. That is the Promise and Guarantee of the Spirit. See the Passages again, quoted above.

You cite many verses, yet so did rogerg in this post showing many New Testament passages that the faith inside of Christians is the faith of Jesus Christ, that is, faith is the work of God in Christians, but not a single passage that you cited states that the faith inside of Christians is NOT the faith of Jesus Christ, so when you prophecy that those verses you cited indicate that faith is NOT a work of God, then you are prophesying against Christ (Matthew 24:11).

No Scripture states man leads the Glorious Holy Spirit of the Living God - not even a single passage you presented says man leads God, so you conjured up a tradition of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says God causes us believers to believe in Jesus whom the has sent with "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), not man controlling faith/belief in a person, but in Truth (John 14:6) God controls faith/belief in the children of God!

The Apostle Peter wrote "God, the souls of you having purified in the obedience to the truth through Spirit, into a sincere love of the brethren" (1 Peter 1:21-22), so the Spirit of the Living God causes us Christians to obediently "drink," "live," "walk," and "sow"!

The Spirit causes me and all Christians to come to drink of the Living Water (John 7:37-39). You stopped prematurely at verse 38 since the Apostle John declared in John 7:39 that Jesus talks about the Spirit indwelling us Christians in John 7:37-38 thus the Holy Spirit causes us Christians to drink the Living Water; furthermore, behold, the words of Christ saying we Christian's deed of comng to Christ the Living Water is wrought in God as well as the deed of practicing obedience to God's loving commands is wrought in God:

he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God
(John 3:21)
​

The Spirit gives Life (John 14:6) to us born of God purifying us even causing fruit of the Spirit (1 Peter 1:21-22; Galatians 2:22-23; Romans 8:11-13; Galatians 5:24-25).

The Spirit of God is ALIVE!

The Spirit causes us to walk in the Spirit (John 3:21; 1 Peter 1:21-22; Romans 8:3-4; Galatians 5:24-25).

The Spirit causes us Christians to sow to the Spirit (John 3:21; 1 Peter 1:21-22; Galatians 5:22-23; Galatians 6:7-9).

Do not be deceived, the one who says the Spirit of God cannot do that which the Word of God says the Holy Spirit accomplishes is the one who does not inherit the Kingdom of God!

Part 1 of 5
Post 2 of 5 current

 

[rogerg]

You cite many verses, yet so did rogerg in this post showing many New Testament passages that the faith inside of Christians is the faith of Jesus Christ, that is, faith is the work of God in Christians, but not a single passage that you cited states that the faith inside of Christians is NOT the faith of Jesus Christ, so when you prophecy that those verses you cited indicate that faith is NOT a work of God, then you are prophesying against Christ (Matthew 24:11).

No Scripture states man leads the Glorious Holy Spirit of the Living God - not even a single passage you presented says man leads God, so you conjured up a tradition of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

The Word of God says God causes us believers to believe in Jesus whom the has sent with "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), not man controlling faith/belief in a person, but in Truth (John 14:6) God controls faith/belief in the children of God!

The Apostle Peter wrote "God, the souls of you having purified in the obedience to the truth through Spirit, into a sincere love of the brethren" (1 Peter 1:21-22), so the Spirit of the Living God causes us Christians to obediently "drink," "live," "walk," and "sow"!

The Spirit causes me and all Christians to come to drink of the Living Water (John 7:37-39). You stopped prematurely at verse 38 since the Apostle John declared in John 7:39 that Jesus talks about the Spirit indwelling us Christians in John 7:37-38 thus the Holy Spirit causes us Christians to drink the Living Water; furthermore, behold, the words of Christ saying we Christian's deed of comng to Christ the Living Water is wrought in God as well as the deed of practicing obedience to God's loving commands is wrought in God:

​

he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God​

(John 3:21)​

​

The Spirit gives Life (John 14:6) to us born of God purifying us even causing fruit of the Spirit (1 Peter 1:21-22; Galatians 2:22-23; Romans 8:11-13; Galatians 5:24-25).

The Spirit of God is ALIVE!

The Spirit causes us to walk in the Spirit (John 3:21; 1 Peter 1:21-22; Romans 8:3-4; Galatians 5:24-25).

The Spirit causes us Christians to sow to the Spirit (John 3:21; 1 Peter 1:21-22; Galatians 5:22-23; Galatians 6:7-9).

Do not be deceived, the one who says the Spirit of God cannot do that which the Word of God says the Holy Spirit accomplishes is the one who does not inherit the Kingdom of God!

Part 1 of 5
Post 2 of 5 current

Outstanding and Part 1 too, Kermos.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Haven't you been paying attention ? Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

All whom Christ tasted death for shall be saved, shall be taken to Glory !

Not all, as some reject His holy offering.

Of course you dont believe that, you attribute salvation to man

Why don't you think any will reject Christ ?

 

[brightfame52]

Not all, as some reject His holy offering.

Why don't you think any will reject Christ ?

All for whom Christ died, tasted death for, by that they are brought to glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings

When He tasted death for them, He saved them and became the Captain of their Salvation. He saved them from sin, from unbelief, from rejecting Him ! See all men by nature are spiritually dead sinners who reject God in Christ, so they have to be saved from those sins. Also Christs Offering isnt offered to sinners, His Offering of Himself was unto God, and God accepted His Offering.

Heb 9:14


How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

See when He [Christ] offered Himself unto God, His Blood purges the consciences of all for whom He died and causes them to serve the Living God. Thats comes about because He tasted death for them Heb 2:9-10

 

[brightfame52]

Kermos

The Apostle Peter wrote "God, the souls of you having purified in the obedience to the truth through Spirit, into a sincere love of the brethren" (1 Peter 1:21-22), so the Spirit of the Living God causes us Christians to obediently "drink," "live," "walk," and "sow"!

Correct, the Spirit is causative of our Gospel Obedience, Peter made that plain earlier in the Epistle 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Paul taught the same thing 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Its the Spirits Work to bring chosen redeemed sinners to Faith or obedience to Christ

The Chosen here are the same as the elect in 1 Pet 1:2

 

[Kermos]

My response stands. Faith, by definition, is never a work. That is reality. Faith is the opposite of works.



But you go ahead and believe that faith is a work. The entire New Testament disagrees with you, but you go and believe that anyway. My messages are for those who read these posts who seek the truth.

You repeat your "Faith, by definition, is never a work" deception about John 6:29 again because Lord Jesus Christ in absolutely certain terms declares that a Christian's faith/belief is exclusively the work of God (John 6:29) while at the same time the Word of God eliminates "the work of man" in respect to believing in Jesus when the King of Glory says:

This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent
(John 6:29)
​

Christians do not reject the sayings of Christ, and this Truth (John 14:6) includes John 6:29, yet your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) rejects Christ's sayings of which Christ says about Christ's sayings that "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

You repeat another of your lies that "Faith is the opposite of works" because Lord Jesus teaches that faith is the work of God (John 6:29), and the Word of God here "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) is enough to stand as absolute Truth (John 14:6) without any other citations, yet the Word of God wonderfully says "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life" (John 6:47), BUT YOUR WRITINGS MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THE WORD OF GOD DOES NOT MATTER TO YOU.

When you wrote "My messages are for those who read these posts who seek the truth" even further down in your post after John 6:29 was proclaimed to you, then, in that very moment, you executed against Christ a falsehood because your statements in blue result in "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29); in other words, your heart adulterates the Word of God into a thing that is no longer the Word of God.

Part 1 of 5
Post 2 of 5
Post 3 of 5 current

 

[Kermos]

No improvement or revision needed - your writing is very clear, indeed - far clearer than mine - it was excellent, Kermos. The issue was based upon my misunderstanding - that I focused on the "saved by belief alone" and wasn't entirely sure how you meant it. After rereading the section you mentioned above, I can see that you laid it out perfectly.

Thanks for the input! I appreciate it.

I must say, God has blessed me to participate in this thread reading your posts!

I like using the word "belief" because of it's likeness to "believe".

The word "faith" is a wonderful word, but it's precise synonym of "belief" lends to a visual tight-coupling of the verb "believe" and the noun "belief".

God bless you.

 

[Hopeful 2]

All for whom Christ died, tasted death for, by that they are brought to glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings

Do you see any difference at all between the words "all" and "many" ?
Just because Jesus "tasted death for every man" doesn't mean every man will accept it.

When He tasted death for them,

If men don't turn from sin and get baptized into "His death", (Rom 6:4), they won't find their names on the book of life on the day of judgement.

He saved them and became the Captain of their Salvation. He saved them from sin, from unbelief, from rejecting Him !

OSAS doctrines are not of God.

See all men by nature are spiritually dead sinners who reject God in Christ,

Still, Jesus died for all of them so they could change their ways.
Sorrowfully, some don't want eternal life.

so they have to be saved from those sins. Also Christs Offering isnt offered to sinners,

Your scripture says differently.
"All men".
We were all sinners, before repentance from sin.

His Offering of Himself was unto God, and God accepted His Offering.
Heb 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
See when He [Christ] offered Himself unto God, His Blood purges the consciences of all for whom He died and causes them to serve the Living God.

I wish your outcome had happened for my family that way.
But it didn't.

That comes about because He tasted death for them Heb 2:9-10

He tasted death for my family, but they rejected it.
It didn't matter to Ananias and Saphira either. (Acts 5)

 

[brightfame52]

Do you see any difference at all between the words "all" and "many" ?
Just because Jesus "tasted death for every man" doesn't mean every man will accept it.

If men don't turn from sin and get baptized into "His death", (Rom 6:4), they won't find their names on the book of life on the day of judgement.

OSAS doctrines are not of God.

Still, Jesus died for all of them so they could change their ways.
Sorrowfully, some don't want eternal life.

Your scripture says differently.
"All men".
We were all sinners, before repentance from sin.

I wish your outcome had happened for my family that way.
But it didn't.

He tasted death for my family, but they rejected it.
It didn't matter to Ananias and Saphira either. (Acts 5)

The ones who Christ tasted death for, it brought them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

That simply means, everyone Christ died for, it saved them from their sins and puts them in heaven.

If you dont believe it, its unbelief

 

[Kermos]

John 3:16 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

The first word of John 3:16 is a conjunction that inextricably ties John 3:14-15 to John 3:16, and here are the Lord Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John:

As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that every believing will in Him have eternal life, for God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life (John 3:14-16).
​

Lord Jesus brings in history by way of mentioning "the serpent in the wilderness" John 3:14), so here is the contextually linked passage about history:

Then YHWH said to Moses, "Make a fiery [serpent], and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived. (Numbers 21:8-9).
​

Based on God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" (John 3:14) and the results of the "bronze serpent" that Moses set on the standard (Numbers 21:9), the population of persons that certainly were affected by God's command about "the serpent in the wilderness" in order to live were ONLY each bitten person that looked at "the serpent in the wilderness".

Furthermore, there is a different population of persons which includes persons that DID NOT LOOK AT "the serpent in the wilderness".

Therefore, there are separate populations of persons identified in Jesus' words as recorded by the Apostle John (John 3:14-16) with the first "population of bitten look to live" and there was the second "population of everyone else".

In the next four paragraphs, we see the Word of God speaking to Moses (Numbers 21:8) in relation to the Word of God speaking to Nicodemus (John 3:16).

1. Notice how "everyone who is bitten" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "world" (John 3:16).
2. Notice how "when he" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "that every one" (John 3:16, note that the singular (not plural) Greek word pas [Strong's 3956] translates accurately as "every one" not so much as the unfettered promiscuous connotation of "whosoever" [KJV] or "whoever" [NASB]).
3. Notice how "look" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "believing" (John 3:16).
4. Notice how "live" (Numbers 21:8) relates to "eternal life" (John 3:16).

Jesus sets the relation between differing populations of persons by way of Him including the "the serpent in the wilderness" (John 3:14, Numbers 21:9), so the "population of bitten look to live" directly corresponds with the word "world" as per Jesus' usage (John 3:16).

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.

Part 1 of 5
Post 2 of 5
Post 3 of 5
Post 4 of 5 current

 

[Kermos]

First, Hopeful 2, the passage in Truth (John 14:6) according to the Apostolic testimony of John:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
(1 John 2:1-2)
​

Okay.

OK, so then we are corresponding about a Muslim man who lived in 1502AD and died an unbeliever several centuries ago.

The Moslem is the "any man" of 1 John 2:1.
He can turn to God for the remission of past sins.

Correct, unless he appealed to the Advocate, he is a goner.
Of course the Moslem's life will change 100% when he drops the "Moslem" from his title.

You just wrote that Christ advocated for the unbelieving dead Muslim man, and your precise words were "The Moslem is the 'any man' of 1 John 2:1", so the unbelieving dead Muslim man had Christ advocate for him, but the unbelieving dead Muslim man died hell-bound because Christ's advocacy failed to propitiate for the sins of that unbelieving dead Muslim man according to your testimony.

You also wrote "He can turn to God for the remission of past sins", but the unbelieving dead Muslim man is a long dead man incapable of doing your thoughts of "turn to God for the remission of past" sins which makes your concept false from conception even non-sequitor, yet 1 John 2:1-2 contains nothing about a contingency that depends upon the "anyone" doing a "turn to God for the remission of past sins", so your testimony is clear that your heart's thoughts (Matthew 15:16-19) adulterate 1 John 2:1-2 thusly:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone turn to God for the remission of past sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
​

In Truth (John 14:6), no such requirement as your "turn to God for the remission of past sins" exists in 1 John 2:1-2; therefore, your "turn to God for the remission of past sins" is against Christ because your testimony centers on man controlling the Christ in 1 John 2:1-2; in stark contrast, John's Apostolic testimony is entirely centered on Christ and Christ's successful work in the salvation of God's chosen persons!

Do not be deceived, your testimony results in Christ failing in Christ's work of advocacy for that unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD - that Christ's propitiation for the sins of "the whole world" specifically the unbelieving dead Muslim man in this case - Christ an utter and complete failure according to your free-willian philosophy.

Unless that Moslem does as all real Christians did/do, that being repent of sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, it will reveal that he didn't apply/ appeal for the advocacy available to him.

The Muslim man is dead, and "it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment" (Hebrews 9:27), so your "Unless that Moslem does as all real Christians" makes no sense.

If a man doesn't ask for advocacy, he won't get advocacy.

The unbelieving dead Muslim man cannot "ask for advocacy" because he's dead.

The Moslem is the "any man".
Had he appealed for advocacy, he would have received it.

John did not write in 1 John 2:1-2 that Christ's advocacy depends that a man "ask for advocacy", so your "Had he appealed for advocacy, he would have received it" is against Christ because the Apostle John declares that Christ propitiates for "the whole world" (1 John 2:2) which includes every single "anyone" (1 John 2:1) for whom Christ advocates, and Christ succeeds in 100% of Christ's advocacies which means that Christ's advocacies are exclusively for God's specifically chosen persons, so your free-willian philosophy that Christ's advocacies are for everyone everywhere in all time is deception because your philosophy results in Christ being an utter failure.

Jesus's advocacies will always succeed.

Lord Jesus Christ's advocacy always succeeds!

This current post has a corollary with Post 4 of 5 here about the word "world" in John 3:16.

But if the advocacies are not asked for, or the person is still committing sin afterwards, the advocacy was for naught.
"God heareth not sinnners", (John 9:31), so a real repentance from sin is crucial for the success of any advocacy.

Oh, look, you brought up "repentance", so I'd prefer we take off from where we previously left off corresponding about Apostolic testimony which was here at this post.

Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".

Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards")
(def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).
​

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Lord Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.

SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE

BIBLE CiTATION: For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while - I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. (2 Corinthians 7:8-10)

Paul the Apostle wrote "for you were made sorrowful according to God".

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

See "God produces a repentance"!

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

The Apostle wrote "the sorrow that is according to God produces thinking differently afterward without regret" (2 Corinthians 7:10).

BIBLE CITATION: Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? (Romans 2:4).

Notice that rebuke of people that despise repentance being from God!

BIBLE CITATION: When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life." (Acts 11:18)

See that God grants repentance as testified by the disciples in Acts 11:18.

BIBLE CITATION: with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, (2 Timothy 2:25)

Paul testifies that God grants "thinking different afterwards" in 2 Timothy 2:25.

BIBLE CITATION: "I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25).

Jesus reveals that God imparts the revelation of the Truth (John 14:6) into believer's thoughts causing believers to "think different after" being saved from the wrath of God.

God grants repentance into people, as it is written; on the other hand, there is complete absence and silence in scripture for repentance as a work conjured up by man nor by man's "free will" nor "choice" nor "ability" to cause repentance.

God grants repentance, and God acts for God's glory! Praise be to the Living God!

 

[Kermos]

You did not choose me but I chose you is referring to the Apostles.


I think Hopeful 2 is pretty tired of speaking to people that don't understand scripture.

Jesus was not referring exclusively to the Apostles. Did you read in the post to which you replied about Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias (Acts 1:21-23)?

Let's just look at the Apostle Peter's words, and we shall identify the "people that don't understand scripture":

“Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us— beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us—one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.” So they put forward two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias.
(Acts 1:21-23)
​

So, Apostolic testimony puts 2 more people present as part of Lord Jesus' audience when the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Now, as shown in Truth (John 14:6) in the post to which you replied, the audience is all believers in all time for Lord Jesus in reference to John 15:16 and John 15:19.

Do you consider yourself a friend of Jesus because the Lord brings friendship with Himself together with His exclusive choosing of people in the same passage with "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16)?

 

[Hopeful 2]

The ones who Christ tasted death for, it brought them to Glory Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

That simply means, everyone Christ died for, it saved them from their sins and puts them in heaven.

If you dont believe it, its unbelief

If a bank is built on the corner of Main and Ash, is that bank just for those who use it ?
Or is it for anyone who wants to bank there ?
You've built a doctrine based on semantics.

 

[Hopeful 2]

First, Hopeful 2, the passage in Truth (John 14:6) according to the Apostolic testimony of John:

​

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.​

(1 John 2:1-2)​

Right, I was once that "any man".

OK, so then we are corresponding about a Muslim man who lived in 1502AD and died an unbeliever several centuries ago.

He didn't have to die as an unbeliever.
The Advocate could have made him righteous.

You just wrote that Christ advocated for the unbelieving dead Muslim man, and your precise words were "The Moslem is the 'any man' of 1 John 2:1", so the unbelieving dead Muslim man had Christ advocate for him, but the unbelieving dead Muslim man died hell-bound because Christ's advocacy failed to propitiate for the sins of that unbelieving dead Muslim man according to your testimony.

The Advocate was there to advocate.
The Moslem didn't want advocacy.
That doesn't make Jesus, or His advocacy, a failure.

You also wrote "He can turn to God for the remission of past sins", but the unbelieving dead Muslim man is a long dead man incapable of doing your thoughts of "turn to God for the remission of past" sins which makes your concept false from conception even non-sequitor, yet 1 John 2:1-2 contains nothing about a contingency that depends upon the "anyone" doing a "turn to God for the remission of past sins", so your testimony is clear that your heart's thoughts (Matthew 15:16-19) adulterate 1 John 2:1-2 thusly:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone turn to God for the remission of past sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.​

That man, and all men, have a life-time to change.
If they want to do evil instead of good they will not seek an advocate of any sort.
But still, the Advocate was there.

In Truth (John 14:6), no such requirement as your "turn to God for the remission of past sins" exists in 1 John 2:1-2; therefore, your "turn to God for the remission of past sins" is against Christ because your testimony centers on man controlling the Christ in 1 John 2:1-2; in stark contrast, John's Apostolic testimony is entirely centered on Christ and Christ's successful work in the salvation of God's chosen persons!

Jesus will not advocate for those intent on continued sin.
That doesn't make Jesus or His advocacy a failure.
It is just unwanted.

Do not be deceived, your testimony results in Christ failing in Christ's work of advocacy for that unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD - that Christ's propitiation for the sins of "the whole world" specifically the unbelieving dead Muslim man in this case - Christ an utter and complete failure according to your free-willian philosophy.

The advocacy of Jesus Christ was there for the taking.
It wasn't taken.

The Muslim man is dead, and "it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment" (Hebrews 9:27), so your "Unless that Moslem does as all real Christians" makes no sense.

He missed his chance.

The unbelieving dead Muslim man cannot "ask for advocacy" because he's dead.

He sure is dead.
God gave him an entire life-span to turn from darkness and unto Him, but he didn't turn.

John did not write in 1 John 2:1-2 that Christ's advocacy depends that a man "ask for advocacy", so your "Had he appealed for advocacy, he would have received it" is against Christ because the Apostle John declares that Christ propitiates for "the whole world" (1 John 2:2) which includes every single "anyone" (1 John 2:1) for whom Christ advocates, and Christ succeeds in 100% of Christ's advocacies which means that Christ's advocacies are exclusively for God's specifically chosen persons, so your free-willian philosophy that Christ's advocacies are for everyone everywhere in all time is deception because your philosophy results in Christ being an utter failure.

I don't believe on forced conversions, like the Moslems and Calvinists do.
Conversion must be from the heart.
Conversion is available to all men.

Lord Jesus Christ's advocacy always succeeds!

Yes, when it is asked for.

This current post has a corollary with Post 4 of 5 here about the word "world" in John 3:16.

Do tell.

Oh, look, you brought up "repentance", so I'd prefer we take off from where we previously left off corresponding about Apostolic testimony which was here at this post.
Let us dig into the word "repent" which means "think differently afterwards". After we believers are born from above by the Holy Spirit (John 3:3), and in like manner given the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). The Greek word metanoeó is the English word "repent" in Matthew 4:17. Let us obtain the definition of "repent".
Repent: think differently afterwards

metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards")​

(def from 3340. metanoeó HELPS Word-studies section).​

Repent: turn from or change.
As the repentance of Christians is from sin, further descriptions are unwarranted.

The word "repent" does not mean "I change my mind" as asserted by too many people. Try reciting the words of Lord Jesus, where He is commanding the people in Matthew 4:17, except, first, replace the word "repent" with "I change my mind", then, second, replace the word "repent" with "think differently afterwards". God does not change (Malachi 3:6), so this One True God Jesus commands repent.
SCRIPTURAL CITATIONS ABOUT THE SOURCE OF REPENTANCE
BIBLE CiTATION: For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it - [for] I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while - I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to [the point of] repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to [the will of] God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For the sorrow that is according to [the will] [of] God produces a repentance without regret, [leading] to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. (2 Corinthians 7:8-10)

Paul the Apostle wrote "for you were made sorrowful according to God".

Sorrowful about what ?
Their sins.
"Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation, not to be repented of." (2 Cor 5:17)

Paul does not leave it there, NO, rather Paul repeats himself in verse 10 to make it clear - in Jewish fashion of repeating a point for emphasis - Paul makes it clear in no uncertain terms "the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation". That is Paul driving the Power of God exclusive role in man's salvation point home!

Who does the repenting-turning-changing ?
God ?

See "God produces a repentance"!

Sorrow for sin produces a repentance from sin.

The scripture is devoid of "sorrow that is according to your free will" or "your free will to repent" or any indication about such a notion as man's free-will choice toward God.

As I've written earlier, only the Moslems and Calvinists believe in forced conversions.