Tasted Death for every Man !

[Hopeful 2]

I dont know what you talking about

I put the "cart" behind the "horse".
Faith comes before acting on faith.
Men must believe before anything else can happen.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Help!

Are YOU saying that Jesus died for EVERYONE
and Hopeful 2 is saying that Jesus died only for the saved?

Pssst...(switch the names around for the right scenario.)

 

[brightfame52]

So His suffering and death were not sufficient for those who desire to partake in them ?
Think again.

His suffering and Death brings them He died for to Glory, they constituted Him the Captain of their Salvation, Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Now you deny this, which is unbelief

 

[brightfame52]

Not at all.

I was one of the ones who gave up my old life at my "immersion" into His death and burial. (Rom 6:3)
I was one of those reborn from God's seed when I was "raised with Christ to walk in newness of life". (Rom 6:4)

I thank God for including me in the "every man" of Heb. 2:9.

I rejoice in being one of the "many".

What's to deny ?
Jesus died for all men, and many have, and will, profit from it.
Thanks be to God !

You do deny the saving death of Christ, dont you believe people He died for will wind up lost in hell ?

 

[brightfame52]

I put the "cart" behind the "horse".
Faith comes before acting on faith.
Men must believe before anything else can happen.

Thats where we differ, I believe things happen because of Christs acting, by Him tasting death, He brings many to Glory becoming the Captain of their salvation Heb 2:9-10

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Nothing is said about man acting in this passage, but all Glory to Christs acting, you exalt man, I by the grace of God show how Christ is exalted in peoples salvation.

 

[setst777]

You cite many verses, yet so did rogerg in this post showing many New Testament passages that the faith inside of Christians is the faith of Jesus Christ, that is, faith is the work of God in Christians,

Not a single Passage rogerg gave states that the faith inside of Christians is the faith of Jesus Christ.
Not a single Passage rogerg gave states that the faith inside of Christians is the work of God.

All the Passages he gave teaches those believing in him are declared righteous because of the faith of Christ. For instance:

• Romans 3:22 (Young's Literal Translation) 22 and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference
• Galatians 2:16 (Young’s Literal Translation) 16 having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.'
• Galatians 3:22 (Young's Literal Translation) 22 but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing.
• Galatians 3:26 twice (Young's Literal Translation) 16 having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.'

but not a single passage that you cited states that the faith inside of Christians is NOT the faith of Jesus Christ,

There is no need for a Passage to state that the faith inside of Christians is NOT the faith of Jesus Christ, because all the Scriptures teach that we are to put our faith in Lord Jesus to be accounted righteous, and to be saved. For instance, no Passage states that Lord Jesus is NOT the Father. Are we to infer from this fact that Lord Jesus must be the Father? No, because all the Scriptures teach that Lord Jesus is a separate person from the Father.

No Scripture states man leads the Glorious Holy Spirit of the Living God - not even a single passage you presented says man leads God, so you conjured up a tradition of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

No Scripture states man leads the Holy Spirit. So, what is your point?
Not even a single passage says man leads God. So, what is your point?

If you are saying that is what I stated, then show me where I stated either of these claims of yours.

The Word of God says God causes us believers to believe in Jesus whom the has sent with "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29), not man controlling faith/belief in a person, but in Truth (John 14:6) God controls faith/belief in the children of God!

John 6:28-29 (WEB)
28 They said therefore to him, “What must we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Lord Jesus' reply was to their question. The work of God, that they asked about is answered, which is: that "YOU" believe in the one he has sent.

The Apostle Peter wrote "God, the souls of you having purified in the obedience to the truth through Spirit, into a sincere love of the brethren" (1 Peter 1:21-22), so the Spirit of the Living God causes us Christians to obediently "drink," "live," "walk," and "sow"!

The Passage you quoted actually states that ["YOU" having purified in obedience to the truth through the Spirit], not that the Spirit obeyed the truth for you. If the Spirit was obeying for you, then every Christian should be living perfectly holy sinless lives, since the Spirit is doing all the work.

The Spirit leads, but only as we are willing to drink (John 7:37-38), live (Galatians 5:25), walk (Romans 8:3-4; Galatians 5:16; Galatians 5:25), and sow to the Spirit (Galatians 6:7-9).

Romans 8:12-14 (ENIV) 12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation – but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

The Spirit doesn't drink, live, walk, and sow to the Spirit for you, because Christians will:

• grieve (Ephesians 4:17-32);
• quench (1 Thessalonians 5:19);
• insult (Hebrews 10:24-31);
• reject (1 Thessalonians 4:1-8),
• lie to (Acts 5:3), and
• test (Acts 5:9) the Spirit of God indwelling them

The Spirit leads as we follow, which all Christians are obligated to do to receive life.

he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God​

(John 3:21) ​

A persons deeds are the demonstration of the fruits of the Spirit, which are wrought by God in those who diligently drink, live, walk, and sow to the Spirit without giving up.

Galatians 6:8 For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap destruction. But he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let us not be weary in doing good, for we will reap in due season, {{if we}} do not give up.

You repeat your "Faith, by definition, is never a work" deception​

Faith cannot be a work by definition. That is a fact, of which the NT also teaches throughout.

The Word of God conclusively proves that the context establishes the word "world" as used by Jesus in John 3:16 includes ONLY the population of persons that currently believe in Jesus or will in the future believe in Jesus.​

I agree.

 

[setst777]

Since both "you" and "yourselves" are second person and plural count, then the word "yourselves" refers specifically to the complete sentence subject of "you"; therefore, the word "that" arbitrates the thing that is "not of yourselves" as well as "the gift of God".

The subject is not "you." Firstly, "you" [Greek: este] is a verb. A verb can never stand alone as a subject. Secondly, to say that "you" is a subject does not even make sense in a sentence; for instance:

Ephesians 2:8-10 (WEB) 8 for by grace you have been saved through faith, and this/that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, that no one would boast. 10 For we [believers] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we [believers] would walk in them.

If "you" was the subject, then "this" and "gift" would be referring back to "you." That does not even make sense:

"This" you is not of yourselves, [you] is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast.

How does that make sense???

As is clearly evident in Ephesians 2:8, Paul utilized no full grammatical inflective agreement between the words.

That is ridiculous.

There is a principle in Greek grammar which dictates that in the absence of full inflective agreement, then the word order in the sentence becomes paramount, so the word order in Ephesians 2:8 dictates relationship between the words.

Essentially, this principle of Greek grammar word order antecedent placement results in the fact that the phrase "faith and that not of yourselves" is specifically stating that faith is not of man while at the same time specifically stating faith is truly the work of God because of "it is the gift of God".

The pronoun "this" is subjective, in that, it must refer back to the subject of the thought expressed.
The noun "gift" is subjective, in that, it must refer back to the main subject it describes within the thought expressed.

A "subject" is a noun.
A verb cannot be "subject."

However, since there is no main subject noun within "Ephesians 2:8-9," then by default, the pronoun "this" and the noun "gift" must refer back to a verbal concept that acts as a subject noun.

The only verbal concept in "Ephesians 2:8-9" is: "by grace you are saved" that was brought forward from verse 5 as follows:

Ephesians 2:5 (Young's Literal Translation) 5 even being dead in the trespasses, did make us to live together with the Christ, (by grace ye are having been saved,)

That is the verbal concept that is repeated in "Ephesians 2:8" as the main subject for further development in thought.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (WEB)

• for “by grace you have been saved” [sole main subject, neuter singular verbal concept from vs 5]
• through faith [“genitive singular noun” that takes possession of the salvation that is by grace]
• this” [“neuter singular subjective pronoun” referring back to the subject, which is the subjective (the subject) neuter singular verbal concept "by grace you are saved"]
• not of yourselves [in combination with the neuter singular pronoun “this,” is a phrase that can only refer back to "by grace you are saved," because “this” is a “nominative neuter singular pronoun” that matches the verbal concept (nominative neuter singular pronoun).
• [it is] the gift [“nominative neuter singular noun” refers back to the “nominative neuter singular pronoun” “this” and also to the nominative neuter singular verbal concept” "by grace you are saved"]
• of God [genitive noun showing that the gift (of saving grace) is from God],
• not of works, that no one would boast (Faith is never a work. By definition, and by teaching all through the Epistles, faith is never a work; rather, faith stands in opposition to works).

In Review:

• "By grace you have been saved" is a verbal concept, and the subject of Ephesians 2:8-9. It is a verbal concept because it is a complete thought forwarded from verse 5 for further development.
• "Grace" is a dative feminine noun acting as an indirect object within the subject/verbal concept "by grace you have been saved."
• "Faith" (genitive feminine noun) takes possession of the verbal concept "by grace you have been saved."
• A verbal concept is subjective, and is neuter and singular by default, and so, any pronouns or nouns that refer back to it are also subjective, neuter and singular.
• "This (subjective, singular, neuter pronoun), along with “not of yourselves" is a phrase that all refers back to the subjective singular neuter verbal concept "By grace you are saved."
• "The gift" is a subjective neuter singular noun, and so refers back to what that gift is, which is the neuter singular subject "by grace you have been saved." All pronouns and nouns that refer back to the subject must match in grammar because they are referring back to the subject, which is "By grace you are saved."
• "By grace you have been saved" is also the only subject in Ephesians 2:8-9. A pronoun can only refer back the closest subject noun or verbal concept, because the verbal concept acts in place of a subject noun when a subject noun does not exist in the sentence, which is the case in "Ephesians 2:8-9."

Make note of the fact that, regarding salvation, the “gift” of God, according to the teaching of Scripture, refers to “eternal life” and not to “faith” by which we receive eternal life (Romans 6:23; John 3:14-17).

• Romans 6:23 (WEB) 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life {{{in}}} Christ Jesus our Lord.
• John 3:16 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

The "Gift of God" is never referred to in Scriptures as "faith" by which God saves us.

 

[setst777]

The gift is
Grace
Faith
Salvation

It refers to all.

Regarding salvation:
The “gift” of God, according to the teaching of all the Scriptures, refers to “eternal life” and not to “faith” by which we receive eternal life (Romans 6:23; John 3:14-17).

• Romans 6:23 (WEB) 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life {{{in}}} Christ Jesus our Lord.
• John 3:16 (WEB) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

The "Gift of God" is never referred to in Scriptures as "faith" by which God saves us.

 

[setst777]

Hello wondering

Where was John 15:17 quoted or cited im the post to which you replied?

Lord Jesus Christ wonderfully blesses all believers in all time with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

You wrote "You did not choose me but I chose you is referring to the Apostles" (as recorded here), so you portrayed that Christ's audience was limited to the Apostles for John 15:16, but Acts 1:21-23 proves the audience for John 15:16 exceeded the number of Apostles by at least "two men, Joseph called Barsabbas (who was also called Justus), and Matthias".

The Apostles were called Apostles by Jesus before Christ's crucifixion because "when day came, He called His disciples to Him and chose twelve of them, whom He also named as Apostles" (Luke 6:13).

I admit the Word of God says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) is for all Jesus' disciples in all time.

LORD JESUS' PRAYER FOR US DISCIPLES

Part of the prayer of Lord Jesus during the supper is thus "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20).

Jesus said "through their word" (John 17:20) which means that "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) are words that the Apostle John recorded. John recorded the Word of God, and the Word of God says "for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20), and He preceded these words with "I do not ask on behalf of these alone" (John 17:20), so the Word of God during the supper is not just for the people in the room, but the Word of God during the supper is for all believers in all time.

In another part of the prayer, Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28), says "I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours" (John 17:9).

Jesus said "I do not ask on behalf of the world" (John 17:9), so Jesus uses "the world" to mean different things in different places. Such a difference exists in His use of "the world" in (John 17:9) compared to His use of "the world" in (John 3:16), so Jesus specifically excludes your "everyone".

Thus, belief in Jesus through the Apostle John's words includes the Lord Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 which are all part of the "through" John's "word" (John 17:20) which Jesus referred to in His prayer.

When Jesus refers to "their faith" in John 17, then Jesus is referring to "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29); therefore, faith/belief is "the work of God" in every single believer - God is the cause, Director, Sustainer and Controller of faith in all Christians.

Lord Jesus' High Priestly prayer recorded in John 17 initiates thus "Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You, even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life" (John 17:1-2).

See "You gave Him authority over all flesh, so Jesus' sovereign authority is over everyone everywhere, yet Jesus continues with "all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life", so Jesus narrows the the blessings in this lovely prayer to God's chosen persons; therefore, your overreaching restrictions do not apply to John 15:16 and John 15:19.

Behold, Jesus did not say "you Apostles" in John 15:16 and John 15:19 in a fashion like Jesus did with "Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil" (John 6:70).

Do not be deceived, Lord Jesus Christ wonderfully blesses all believers in all time with "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

No verse states Judas "chose betrayal", in fact, the Apostle John specifically wrote "Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. After the morsel, Satan then entered into him" (John 13:26-27).

Lord Jesus Christ specifically excluded that which you just wrote when the King of the Kingdom of God says "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16).

Your writings do not match the Word of God because your "We must respond with a yes or a no" represents a disallowed human choice as per the Word of God here "I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me but I chose you" (John 15:15-16).

Continued to post 2,170

None of the Passages you quoted state or teach HOW Lord Jesus chose anyone. For instance, Lord Jesus also chose Judas, who betrayed him. Did he choose Judas because God formed Judas to not believe and to betray Jesus, or was Judas chosen because God knew his heart, that he would not believe, and that, in his foreknowledge, chose Judas because he would be the one to betray Jesus? The Passages you gave do not give the answer in themselves; rather, you are forcing your doctrine onto the text.

You quote a Passage that states that the Father has "given" them to me, but that Passages doesn't say HOW or WHY God gave them to Lord Jesus. Other Scriptures do teach the HOW and WHY; in that, the Father give to the Son those who believe in the Son, demonstrated by listening to and following him.

The will (John 6:39-40), desire (John 3:16) and good pleasure (1 Corinthians 1:21) of God is to save those who believe in His Son. The believing (evidenced by listening to and following Lord Jesus) are the ones God elects to "give" to the Son.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes [present and continuous believing] in him should not perish, but have eternal life [the new birth of the Spirit: John 3:8].

John 10:27-29 (WEB) My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them {{eternal life}}, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father who has {{{given}}} them to me is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

The "them" and "they" whom the Father has "given" to the Son are the sheep who listen to and follow the Son.
The will and good pleasure of God is to give to the Son those who believe in the Son (John 3:16; 1 Corinthians 1:21). Those who believe will come to the Son to be saved – the will of the Father.

John 6:39-40 (WEB) 39 This is the will of my Father who sent me, that of all he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise him up at the last day. 40 For [Greek: gar] this is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son, and believes in him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[brightfame52]

setst777

The “gift” of God, according to the teaching of all the Scriptures, refers to “eternal life” and not to “faith” by which we receive eternal life (Romans 6:23; John 3:14-17).

Faith comes with eternal life the gift.

 

[setst777]

Setst777
Actually its the opposite, Faith is the fruit and result of regeneration 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Sanctification of the Spirit is regeneration, and from it is belief of the Truth or Faith

2 Thessalonians 2:13 (WEB) 13 But we are bound to always give thanks to God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief in the truth

Paul is not teaching an order of how to be saved. All the Scriptures teach that we are saved by faith, and we receive the Spirit who sanctifies us by faith.

• John 7:38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.
• Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
• Galatians 3:5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

 

[rogerg]

Not a single Passage rogerg gave states that the faith inside of Christians is the faith of Jesus Christ.
Not a single Passage rogerg gave states that the faith inside of Christians is the work of God.

Are you serious? That is exactly what the verses I posted say. What do you think "by the faith OF Christ"
and "even we have believed IN Christ" means? What do you think "justified by the faith of Christ" means?
They mean that Christ's faith is given to us that we believe in Him. You should stop trying to grasp at straws.


[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

from whom do you think this faith originates?

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[rogerg]

All the Passages he gave teaches those believing in him are declared righteous because of the faith of Christ

True faith is only given to someone by God. It is not of themselves.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[setst777]

Are you serious? That is exactly what the verses I posted say. What do you think "by the faith OF Christ"
and "even we have believed IN Christ" means? What do you think "justified by the faith of Christ" means?
They mean that Christ's faith is given to us that we believe in Him. You should stop trying to grasp at straws.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

from whom do you think this faith originates?

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Read the quote you gave.

"Galatians 2:16" plainly states that justification is by the faith of Jesus Christ. "WE" have believed so that WE may be justified by the faith of Christ.

• The Passage doesn't state that the faith inside of Christians is the faith of Jesus Christ; rather by believing we are justified by the faith of Christ.
• The Passage doesn't state that the faith inside of Christians is the work of God; rather, that WE have believed in Christ Jesus that WE might be justified by the faith of Christ.

"Galatians 5:22" discusses the fruits of the Spirit of believers who walk by the Spirit, just as the context makes plain to understand.

Paul is teaching believers (the Church in Galatia) to walk in the Spirit so they bear the fruits of the Spirit - the character traits of true believers. Read the context.

Galatians 5:16-25 (WEB)
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, that you may not do the things that you desire. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

2 Thessalonians 2:13 (WEB) 13 But we are bound to always give thanks to God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief in the truth

Paul is not teaching an order of how to be saved. All the Scriptures teach that we are saved by faith, and we receive the Spirit who sanctifies us by faith.

• John 7:38 He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive.
• Galatians 3:2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
• Galatians 3:5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?

Again Faith is the fruit of the Spirit. Tell us, where do you believe Faith comes from ?

 

[brightfame52]

Read the quote you gave.

"Galatians 2:16" plainly states that justification is by the faith of Jesus Christ. "WE" have believed so that WE may be justified by the faith of Christ.

• The Passage doesn't state that the faith inside of Christians is the faith of Jesus Christ; rather by believing we are justified by the faith of Christ.
• The Passage doesn't state that the faith inside of Christians is the work of God; rather, that WE have believed in Christ Jesus that WE might be justified by the faith of Christ.

"Galatians 5:22" discusses the fruits of the Spirit of believers who walk by the Spirit, just as the context makes plain to understand.

Paul is teaching believers (the Church in Galatia) to walk in the Spirit so they bear the fruits of the Spirit - the character traits of true believers. Read the context.

Galatians 5:16-25 (WEB)
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, that you may not do the things that you desire. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

The Faith of Christ, faith which is from Christ. Who do you think is the author of Faith ? Heb 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[Kermos]

First, Hopeful 2, let's look at the First Book of John's two passages that contain the phrase "the whole world", and this according to the Apostolic testimony of John in Truth (John 14:6):

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
(1 John 2:1-2)
​

This is the first passage.

John the Apostle also testified:

The whole world lies in the evil one.
(1 John 5:19)
​

This is the second passage.

The Apostle John testified using Christian writing, and based on context with Spiritual Truth (John 14:6), neither instance of "the whole world" means "all men" (everyone everywhere in all time).

Now, let's examine your testimony.

What do you mean by "successfully testified" ?

Let me explain. You see, when you wrote:

The Moslem is the "any man" of 1 John 2:1.

Right there, your testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD is that "any man" in 1 John 2:1, and you accomplished communicating your testimony with a coherent sentence with a specific conclusion, and you successfully posted your testimony to the site which means you successfully testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD is that "any man" in 1 John 2:1.

Hopeful 2, you successfully testified that according to you Christ failed in His advocacy for the unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD.

The end of your testimony is that Christ fails to propitiate the sins of the hell-bound unbelieving dead Muslim man of 1502AD while that man was alive, so Christ's advocacy failed upon that man's death per your testimony.

Your testimony that the "anyone" and "the whole world" in 1 John 2:1-2 are everyone everywhere in all time shows your belief that Christ is a FAILURE.

The Apostle John's and my testimony that the "anyone" and "the whole world" in 1 John 2:1-2 are exclusively current believers and/or future believers shows our belief that Christ is always a SUCCESS!

Now, let's look at your testimony above combined with your testimony below.

You have the re-interpretation correct.
We must desire advocacy to get advocacy.

Since you successfully testified that the unbelieving dead Muslim man is that "any man" of 1 John 2:1-2, then combining that with your testimony of "We must desire advocacy to get advocacy" above, in effect, results in your testimony overriding the Apostle John's testimony into

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, as long as anyone desires Christ's advocacy, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
(Hopeful 2)
​

which is no longer the Apostle John's testimony recorded in 1 John 2:1-2 because your testimony requires the underlined text in the passage thus converting the passage into your own testimony. You just compare and contrast your testimony (your interpretation in blue letters) here with the Apostle John's testimony to see the difference, and here is John's unadulterated Apostolic testimony

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
(1 John 2:1-2)
​

Your testimony that the "anyone" and "the whole world" in 1 John 2:1-2 are everyone everywhere in all time shows your belief that Christ is a FAILURE.

The Apostle John's and my testimony that the "anyone" and "the whole world" in 1 John 2:1-2 are exclusively current believers and/or future believers shows our belief that Christ is always a SUCCESS!

Now, let's further see how your testimony above combines with your testimony below.

If Jesus advocates for all men, all men would be Christians.
Can you see that ?

You just testified to where your testimony leads "Jesus advocates for all men, all men would be Christians".

You testify again and again that "any man" ("anyone") is "all men" in 1 John 2:1-2.

You testify again and again that "the whole world" is "all men" in 1 John 2:1-2.

Therefore, you testify "all men" are Christians per 1 John 2:1-2, so your testimony is error that fails to match the Word of God.

If you had not added "incapable", I would again agree with your re-interpretation.

For your sake, let's drop the word "incapable", so the blue text fully meets your testimony satisfaction.

Your testimony has "the unbelieving dead Muslim man" being a Christian because you testify that

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous whose advocacy failed for the anyone identified as that unbelieving dead Muslim man, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of that unbelieving dead Muslim man who is part of the whole world.
​

is 1 John 2:1-2, but your testimony is a lie - just compare your testimony in blue text above to John's unadulterated Apostolic testimony below

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
(1 John 2:1-2)
​

Your testimony that the "anyone" and "the whole world" in 1 John 2:1-2 are everyone everywhere in all time shows your belief that Christ is a FAILURE.

The Apostle John's and my testimony that the "anyone" and "the whole world" in 1 John 2:1-2 are exclusively current believers and/or future believers shows our belief that Christ is always a SUCCESS!

Now, let's look at your testimony above combined with your testimony below.

Jesus does not advocate for those unwilling to be advocated for.
Jesus suffered and died for them so they could be free of sin, but they waned to commit sin more than they wanted to serve God.

Your testimony of "Jesus does not advocate for those unwilling to be advocated for" is absent from 1 John 2:1-2; therefore, you are adding to Scripture. Just search for the word "unwilling" in:

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
(1 John 2:1-2)
​

Your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) adds "unwilling" illegally into 1 John 2:1-2.

Your testimony that the "anyone" and "the whole world" in 1 John 2:1-2 are everyone everywhere in all time shows your belief that Christ is a FAILURE.

The Apostle John's and my testimony that the "anyone" and "the whole world" in 1 John 2:1-2 are exclusively current believers and/or future believers shows our belief that Christ is always a SUCCESS!

It is YOUR belief that Hitler and Mao will find their names in the book of life on the last day.

The fruit of OSAS is deception.
Hitler did not ask for, or receive, advocacy.

Your testimony results in Hitler and Mao being Christians because you testify again and again that "any man" ("anyone") is "all men" in 1 John 2:1-2.

You testify again and again that "the whole world" is "all men" in 1 John 2:1-2.

Since Hitler and Mao are part of the "all men" in 1 John 2:1-2 to which you vehemently testify, then you testify Hitler and Mao are Christians per 1 John 2:1-2, so your testimony is error that fails to match the Word of God.

Jesus died for all men living during and after His resurrection.
He is the Advocate for all who will cease from sin.
Advocacy has conditions.

The "man" is Jesus who is at the center of redemption.
But sadly, only some want redemption.

The dead unbelievers will not be saved.

Every gift involves two beings.
The giver and the receiver.

You testified just now "dead unbelievers will not be saved", and this part of your testimony is true. Your testimony there is highly relevant to "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19.

Nonetheless, you extended a tremendous amount of work to testify that the "anyone" and "the whole world" in 1 John 2:1-2 are everyone everywhere in all time shows your belief that Christ is a FAILURE.

The Apostle John's and my testimony that the "anyone" and "the whole world" in 1 John 2:1-2 are exclusively current believers and/or future believers shows our belief that Christ is always a SUCCESS!

 

[rogerg]

Read the quote you gave.

"Galatians 2:16" plainly states that justification is by the faith of Jesus Christ. "WE" have believed so that WE may be justified by the faith of Christ.

• The Passage doesn't state that the faith inside of Christians is the faith of Jesus Christ; rather by believing we are justified by the faith of Christ.
• The Passage doesn't state that the faith inside of Christians is the work of God; rather, that WE have believed in Christ Jesus that WE might be justified by the faith of Christ.

"Galatians 5:22" discusses the fruits of the Spirit of believers who walk by the Spirit, just as the context makes plain to understand.

Paul is teaching believers (the Church in Galatia) to walk in the Spirit so they bear the fruits of the Spirit - the character traits of true believers. Read the context.

Galatians 5:16-25 (WEB)
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, that you may not do the things that you desire. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

No, it doesn't say that. It says by the faith of Christ we believe in Christ; That is, the faith of Christ and our belief
in Christ come from the same source which is Christ. For us to have faith in Christ, we must have the faith of Christ.
Galatians 5:22 informs of the fruit OF THE SPIRIT; that is, true faith is the Spirit's fruit - it originates FROM the Spirit, not man - the "of the" is in the genitive case, meaning ownership - that the owner of faith is the Spirit. If it were as you say, then it would somehow have to show faith as being genitive of the believer - which would make it the believer's faith, but it does not show that.
Regarding Galatians 5:16 - 25, do you see in 5:18- that it is pertaining only to those who are led by the Spirit?
To be led of the Spirit means they have been born again by which, He leads them. In 5:24, that they are of Christ? Meaning that they have been born again. Do you see "if we live by the Spirit" in 5:25? To live BY the Spirit, means that that He is within them, moving them, and therefore, in order for Him to be within themselves, they are the born again.

 

[brightfame52]

rogerg

For us to have faith in Christ, we must have the faith of Christ.

Yes and in order to believe in Christ, there must be a Spiritual revelation of Christ in us first. He must be revealed in us, that occurs by the effectual call of Grace,

Matt 16:16-17

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matt 11:27
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Gal 1:15-16
5 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Paul couldn't preach until he was caused to believe, he didn't believe until Christ was reveled in him,

So its not like we hear in false religion that people can by their own freewill believe in Christ, Jesus even said it again Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[rogerg]

rogerg


Yes and in order to believe in Christ, there must be a Spiritual revelation of Christ in us first. He must be revealed in us, that occurs by the effectual call of Grace,

Matt 16:16-17

16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Matt 11:27
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Gal 1:15-16
5 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Paul couldn't preach until he was caused to believe, he didn't believe until Christ was reveled in him,

So its not like we hear in false religion that people can by their own freewill believe in Christ, Jesus even said it again Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Yup, those are great verses, brightfame52. Thanks for posting them.