Temporal Salvation?

[JLB]

trolling is that what you call it? you keep giving scriptures that does not say temporary salvation

You have been given the scriptures many times.

• who believe for a while

Is believing for a while, temporary believing or permanentbelieving?


Please answer the question Jerry.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

If you disagree then please show the scripture that says a brother can depart from the faith and still be saved.

i keep posting they probably was not saved .there is wheat and darnel wheat tares looks acts just like the real thing

 

[JLB]

sorry until you reply to my question .i cant reply to yours .your making it a one sided discussion

You came up with this question after I asked you several questions that you ignored, Jerry.


Then I gave you the scriptures showing us that believe is how Jesus said we are saved.


If believe = Saved

then believe for a while = Saved for a while


If you don’t agree, then explain how temporary believing equals permanent salvation.


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Is believing for a while, temporary believing or permanentbelieving?


Please answer the question Jerry.

i asked for them exact words ..not your interpretation have a good day

 

[JLB]

i keep posting they probably was not saved .there is wheat and darnel wheat tares looks acts just like the real thing

That is not the same teaching, Jerry.

Tares will never be wheat.

We are talking about people who believe, the very condition that Jesus said is how we are saved. These people believed and were being persecuted BECAUSE they were believers.


JLB

 

[JLB]

i asked for them exact words ..not your interpretation have a good day

believe for awhile, are them exact words if you understand what they mean.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe = Saved


Do you believe this?



JLB

 

[JLB]

if and unless you believed in vain UNSUCCESSFUL, USELESS .

Yes Jerry.


If we don’t believe today, then our believing by which we were in fact saved in the past, was done in vain. It was useless.

It doesn’t benefit us today, they way it did when we first believed, because we no longer believe.



Simple.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

....and what do you suppose happened to those Saved Believers that fell into error?

If the Galatians and the Corinthians did not respond to God's call to come back to the gospel Paul originally preached to them they lose the justification they had received when they did believe the gospel Paul preached to them.

"2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." - Galatians 5:2,4

....and what happens to those that “ preach” a False Gospel ......Those That propagate Error?

If you can imagine a terror worse than having a large millstone tied around your neck and thrown into the sea, that is what Jesus said will happen to the person who causes one who believes in him to stumble and go to hell:

42“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea. 43If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44] b 45And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] c 47And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell..." - Mark 9:42-47

 

[Jethro Bodine]

you can either produce scripture with the words temporary salvation or you can admit there is no such scripture with them words

Are the exact words 'permanent salvation' found in scripture?

I know the Bible explains how the salvation that Christ gives lasts forever and does not need to be secured over and over again through repeated sacrifices and multiple high priests--and for that reason we should hold on to that salvation and not cast it away--but do the exact words 'permanent salvation' exist in scripture?

 

[LovethroughDove]

I was talking to my husband about this conversation and he said, "why do you guys speak like that"? Meaning, soils and hearts and whatnot. I'm assuming you guys know exactly what I'm talking about when I say good soil?

JLB, can you see that the seed did not penetrate the hearts of those soils that fell away? They would have called themselves believers and they would have been considered believers. (Majority of Christendom are these kinds of people). Maybe someday they will have the Word penetrate their hearts and then become the kind of martyrs we are called to be.

Romans 8:36 As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

If you have any doubt about the truth, you will not act accordingly.

p.s. That Jethro bot is needs to be tweaked a little. lol

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

If the Galatians and the Corinthians did not respond to God's call to come back to the gospel Paul originally preached to them they lose the justification they had received when they did believe the gospel Paul preached to them.

"2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." - Galatians 5:2,4


If you can imagine a terror worse than having a large millstone tied around your neck and thrown into the sea, that is what Jesus said will happen to the person who causes one who believes in him to stumble and go to hell:

42“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea. 43If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. [44] b 45And if your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. [46] c 47And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell..." - Mark 9:42-47

“Fallen From Grace” to me would include anybody that holds to Catholic Dogma and 90% of Protestant “ religion” that says , “ Jesus Saves, B U T”. .......That really makes that “ Narrow Gate” Narrow doesn’t it?
The Bible is clear that if you TEACH a False Gospel Of Works, you are damned.....those that Fall into Error and buy into a False Gospel—- Paul said they were “ doing so well” and He was “ confident” they would return to The Truth” Of his Gospel Of Grace.....
Teachers that I respect very much disagree as to whether those “ Fallen From Grace” are damned . Personally, I see both sides of the different positions, and in the end, I must just admit that I am uncertain about their Fate......Maybe it is Damnation.....Maybe it’s just a Crippled, Anxiety- Filled Walk Of Faith....neither outcome of this “ fall” is desirable, so why take a chance? Some need to Pray that God show them how to Rest in Pauls Gospel Of Grace.....

 

[netchaplain]

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Take all the time you want Brother if you wish to read this, and it's okay if not because it's a lot.

The Bible commentator community often uses a study practice called “necessary inference (which not all theologians use but most do),” for the sake of maintaining understandable uniformity in Scripture when it appears to read as a contradiction (which are many). Example: “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life (Jhn 3:36). To have faith in Christ is an essential truth to receiving salvation. This type of “faith” (spiritual not natural) is not inherent in the soul of man and therefore must be given, and is why it is a gift of God (Gal 5:22; Eph 2:8, 9 – gifts of salvation and faith). Since the gifts and calling of God cannot be removed (Rom 11:29), permanency can truthfully be concluded, e.g. permanency of “faith” (1Co 13:13). I've found the most scripturally consistent rule to be that if it's not permanent, it's not God given.

When addressing scriptures that appear to contradict one another (many there are), inference is applied (by most theologians) in order for passages to reason with one another. Thus, “for a while believe” can intend (not as a reading, can’t change the wording, but to resolve the understanding) “appeared for a while to believe.” To me, the confirmation of not meaning “believe a while” was evinced by it not being permanent, and thus not real.

We can use some of what God has provided (e.g. godly commentators and godly teachers) to learn along with our own understanding, but using our own understanding alone limits greatly what God could be teaching us. He uses every godly Bible student to teach one another through His Word, and is why I like sharing with as many Christian’s opinions and beliefs as possible to compare with Scripture (which also continues to promote maturity in His love we are to have for one another in the Faith - Gal 6:10).

Paul teaches the same principle:
Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
If we do not continue to believe, but fall away in unbelief, our initial believing by which we were saved was done in vain.

"Unless you believed in vain" is only a supposition here, evinced by (1Co 15:58). Since believing in Christ is never vain (these are saved people, they not only "received" but also "stood" in the Gospel - v 1) to me it designs the intention that "ye are saved, only if ye keep in memory (believe) what I preached unto you, or else your faith is vain," meaningless, nonexistent, no faith.

 

[JLB]

When addressing scriptures that appear to contradict one another (many there are), i

I disagree. Scripture does not contradict scripture.

 

[JLB]

Unless you believed in vain" is only a supposition here,

Actually it’s the truth.


If we don’t believe today, then our believing by which we were in fact saved in the past, was done in vain. It was useless.




JLB

 

[netchaplain]

What does saved through faith mean to you?

Do you have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation?

What happens to the person who departs from the faith?


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1




JLB

One can depart from the profession of the doctrine of faith and doctrine of grace (Gal 5:4). But those who believe in them cannot depart from professing these doctrines and what they impart. This concerns those who profess but do not possess (Mat 15:8).

 

[netchaplain]

I disagree. Scripture does not contradict scripture.

I agree, but it often "appears" to, because of the way it sometimes reads; which readings are not contradictions but hyperbolic expressions (I think to cause us to keep searching for concurrence).

 

[netchaplain]

Actually it’s the truth.


If we don’t believe today, then our believing by which we were in fact saved in the past, was done in vain. It was useless.




JLB

I see your meaning, but how so we sensibly explain no longer believing in God?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I was talking to my husband about this conversation and he said, "why do you guys speak like that"? Meaning, soils and hearts and whatnot.

What a great evangelistic moment!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

JLB, can you see that the seed did not penetrate the hearts of those soils that fell away?

The seed is planted and growing in the 2nd type of soil believer:

"6Some fell on rocky ground, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture." - Luke 8:6

We have to stop these doctrines that say the word doesn't really mean what it says. The Bible clearly shows us the word of God is planted and growing in this soil--the soil that so many in the church insist is unbelieving soil, even though the passage plainly says the 2nd type of soil person believed (Luke 8:13).

The problem with the 2nd type of soil person is the word is not deeply rooted in their heart and, therefore, it can be easily uprooted when trouble and trials come. And the reason it's not deeply rooted is because of the condition of that person's heart/soil. If the 2nd type of soil was an unbeliever the seed would be laying on top of the soil as it is the 1st type of soil, not planted in it and growing.

 

[JLB]

Unless you believed in vain" is only a supposition here, evinced by (1Co 15:58). Since believing in Christ is never vain (these are saved people, they not only "received" but also "stood" in the Gospel - v 1) to me it designs the intention that "ye are saved, only if ye keep in memory (believe) what I preached unto you, or else your faith is vain," meaningless, nonexistent, no faith.

Faith, if it is abandoned, can no longer save.


If we depart from the faith by which we are saved, we no longer have the substance of the salvation we once hoped for.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


I have never gotten an answer from you or jerry63935 or LovethroughDove to this question, hopefully now you are ready to answer.


If a person departs from the faith, are they still saved?


JLB