Temporal Salvation?

[JLB]

Some need to Pray that God show them how to Rest in Pauls Gospel Of Grace.....

Can you present the scripture that teaches us about Paul’s Gospel of grace?

Is this a different Gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ?



JLB

 

[JLB]

We have to stop these doctrines that say the word doesn't really mean what it says. The Bible clearly shows us the word of God is planted and growing in this soil--the soil that so many in the church insist is unbelieving soil, even though the passage plainly says the 2nd type of soil person believed (Luke 8:13).

The problem with the 2nd type of soil person is the word is not deeply rooted in their heart and, therefore, it can be easily uprooted when trouble and trials come. And the reason it's not deeply rooted is because of the condition of that person's heart/soil. If the 2nd type of soil was an unbeliever the seed would be laying on top of the soil as it is the 1st type of soil, not planted in it and growing.

So true. These doctrines that deny what Jesus actually taught brings confusion and division to the people of God.


The message they are sending to those that need to develop a deeper understanding of the word is: Your not really saved!


That’s why I can label Calvinism, or OSAS, or Reformed Theology, as Heresy. A divisive doctrine of man.


This doctrine teaches that the “prodigal son” was never saved, since he became lost.


Somehow the prodigal son was never really a son of the father.


When the word plainly shows us there was great rejoicing when the prodigal son or the sheep who became lost was found, and returned.




JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

Faith, if it is abandoned, can no longer save.


If we depart from the faith by which we are saved, we no longer have the substance of the salvation we once hoped for.


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


I have never gotten an answer from you or jerry63935 or LovethroughDove to this question, hopefully now you are ready to answer.


If a person departs from the faith, are they still saved?


JLB

They were never saved in the first place.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

 

[JLB]

They were never saved in the first place.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Thanks for making my point in post 562.

 

[LovethroughDove]

What a great evangelistic moment!

I thought so. I told him that I speak that way cause Jesus said it that way and there is a reason Jesus spoke in parables.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Thanks for making my point in post 562.

Yes, I made "your" point and you are not getting my point.

 

[LovethroughDove]

This doctrine teaches that the “prodigal son” was never saved, since he became lost.


Somehow the prodigal son was never really a son of the father.

JLB

These people that aren't saved are not the prodigal son.
Edit: maybe someday they will end up showing this to be the case

 

[JLB]

Yes, I made "your" point and you are not getting my point.

Do you believe the prodigal son or the sheep who became lost were never saved? Never belonged to Christ?



JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

Do you believe the prodigal son or the sheep who became lost were never saved? Never belonged to Christ?



JLB

You are lumping three parables together. Sower, Lost Sheep and Prodigal. Don't do that.

They each have their own deep meaning.

 

[JLB]

You are lumping three parables together. Sower, Lost Sheep and Prodigal. Don't do that.

They each have their own deep meaning.

Im referring to two parables, not three.

1. Prodigal son
2. Lost Sheep

Do you believe the prodigal son was never saved?




JLB

 

[JLB]

They each have their own deep meaning.

They each have a very simple and clear meaning.


His sheep who become lost need to repent, return to God, in order to be reconciled back to God.

Do you believe the lost need salvation?



JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

Im referring to two parables, not three.

1. Prodigal son
2. Lost Sheep

Do you believe the prodigal son was never saved?




JLB

It sounded like you were lumping the three parables into everyone being saved in those parables and each parable has a point to be made separately.

 

[LovethroughDove]

They each have a very simple and clear meaning.


His sheep who become lost need to repent, return to God, in order to be reconciled back to God.

Do you believe the lost need salvation?



JLB

They have a simple and clear meaning to those who are blessed. Matthew 13:16

Do I believe the lost need salvation, No. He will find his lost sheep, they don't find him. They are his sheep, they are not the devil's goats. John 10:27-28 "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." SHEEP=Given salvation

This parable is about wandering sheep that aren't hearing the Shepard's voice at the moment, but he does find them.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Do you believe the prodigal son was never saved?


JLB

The prodigal son is a son.......he's not the devil's son.

John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

The prodigal just got off track and then was very repentant with how he acted. Luke 15: 21 "The son said to him, 'Father I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'" The devil's children don't understand the power of repentance.

 

[JLB]

They were never saved in the first place.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

If you include the context, it’s easy to see what John is referring to.

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1 John 2:18-20

John is referring to unbelieving Jews who are involved in Judaism; a religion that does not believe Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God.

One reason these unbelieving Jews would come in among a community of believers was to spy on them.


These unbelieving Jews who practiced Judaism consider a Jesus as a false teacher and a deceiver. They consider followers of Christ as deceivers. They persecute their own to get them to turn away from Christ and back to Judaism.

This happened quite a bit in the first century and a Paul constantly had to deal with it in the Churches he raised up.


In Luke 8:13, the scenario is totally different.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


In this scenario we see those who believe, and are being persecuted for BECAUSE they are believers; Christians.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

As you can see these did in fact believe, then fell away.


It’s like someone who is in the army and comes under fire and cuts and runs as a deserter. That’s what this word fall away means.

What you are trying to convince us of, is these people who are in the army and deserted under fire, were somehow never in the the army.


I hope you can see the point and ridiculous it is for you to try and say, these people were “never saved”.


Its just like saying the prodigal son was somehow “never a son”.





JLB

 

[JLB]

The prodigal son is a son.......he's not the devil's son.

John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

The prodigal just got off track and then was very repentant with how he acted. Luke 15: 21 "The son said to him, 'Father I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'" The devil's children don't understand the power of repentance.

The prodical son like the sheep, became lost.

It’s so simple if you just read the words and believe what Jesus said.

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’
Luke 15:32


Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:6-7


Do you believe the lost need salvation?




JLB

 

[LovethroughDove]

The prodical son like the sheep, became lost.

It’s so simple if you just read the words and believe what Jesus said.

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’
Luke 15:32


Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:6-7


Do you believe the lost need salvation?




JLB

Lost people will be found. Do you doubt that? They will receive salvation.

 

[JLB]

Lost people will be found. Do you doubt that? They will receive salvation.

If they repent they will be found.


Please answer my question.

Please just think for yourself and be honest.


Do the lost need salvation?

 

[LovethroughDove]

If they repent they will be found.


Please answer my question.

Please just think for yourself and be honest.


Do the lost need salvation?

The sheep did not repent, it was just lost and the Shepherd found it.

The son was always a son and of course he repented, because he is his Father's son not the devil's child.

The lost have salvation because they are his.

It's kind of a moot point to ask if the lost need salvation, because they are given it. If we are strictly speaking in terms of the Lost sheep and Prodigal parables. There are lost that aren't his sheep and not his son. - - they need salvation

Honestly, I can see myself in the lost sheep and prodigal. I lived most of my life knowing I was loved and taken care of by the Most High, but there was a time I couldn't hear his voice and I was doing my own thing.

He loves me and he has given me the gift of salvation. I'm being honest.

 

[jerry63935]

Are the exact words 'permanent salvation' found in scripture?

I know the Bible explains how the salvation that Christ gives lasts forever and does not need to be secured over and over again through repeated sacrifices and multiple high priests--and for that reason we should hold on to that salvation and not cast it away--but do the exact words 'permanent salvation' exist in scripture?

the words ETERNAL LIFE is what is found which is exactly what i been posting see i haven't used the words permanent salvation because it is not scripture . your grasping at straws