Temporal Salvation?

[JLB]

THAT is the person that ADDS to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus NOTHING ,with Rules and Conditions, blah, blah blah....

Please post the scripture where Paul’s gospel of grace plus nothing can be found.


Here is what Paul teaches about grace —


For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.
Titus 2:11-12

• we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.

Those who teach against this are not teaching the truth.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Since the usual false interpretation of Hebrews 10 is on display .....please , PLEASE , google “ A W Tozer Hebrews Chapters 10” Tozer teaches how easily the fear that the misunderstanding of this verse has fostered, will dissipate upon the simple understanding of its Context.....Andrew Farley also has great teaching on this AND Heb 6.....

Hebrews 10 and 6 find their context in Hebrews 3, where we find the born again Christian who has deserted Christ.

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Hebrews 3:12-14

The same thing Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians 15:1-3


They no longer have a sacrifice for sin, because they no longer have Christ as their advocate with the Father. They have deserted Him.

If they sin willfully they have no sacrifice for sin since they have abandoned, deserted, departed from Christ.


Hebrews 10:39 encourages us to remain steadfast and unwavering to hold fast our confession of faith, that we are not those who turn back to destruction...


But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Hebrews 10:39




JLB

 

[JLB]

Please excuse me If come off as being too “picky”, but it is important to me......it is NOT “Hyper Grace”..............It’s.............

S U P E R H Y P E R G R A C E ( Plus Nothing ).........

Its heresy. Total Heresy.


Please repent of teaching this ungodly doctrine.

You are loved by God but you can not lead His children into destruction causing them to depart from the faith and think there are no repercussions.


Don’t you know that those who teach heresies will not inherit the kingdom of God? Please listen.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Heresies are a work of the flesh, as you can plainly see.


This is the “sober minded” part of grace that you seem to ignore.

• we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.
Titus 2:11-12




JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Only Jesus gives REAL holiness, so don't try and fake it.

We are not to judge what is fake and what is not.
If you're sincere, your attempt to be righteous will lead you to frustration and defeat and on to the righteousness of God......exactly as God intended. So never discourage anyone from seeking to live righteously. Never tell anyone to not do anything just because God has not perfected his life in them yet. As I say, I expect BB to keep his hands, feet, and eyeballs on his side of the fence while he's waiting to be perfected in Christ. That way I'm not sinned against, and he's not guilty of sinning against me. That is what God expects of him, and that is what God expects of me.

 

[netchaplain]

It's only when we take the understanding of scripture off of what theologians teach, as even they can not agree with each other,

Hi! Thanks for your input, and your site work! Disagreement between believers, regardless of what they know, is common because we all vary in our understanding. But the majority of the time there is agreement in most Biblical issues (esp. the salvation essentials, e.g. faith in Christ's birth as the Son of God, atonement and resurrection, etc.). Concerning the Bible commentator society, I find the least disagreement in their explanations, because each truth has only one meaning and if you take a subject to the maximum of what can be known of it there will only be a difference in the way it is explained (a matter only of semantics), but results with the same understanding of it.

God's blessings to your Family!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It's my opinion that there's a lack of being properly taught the rudiments of Scripture (esp. the growth doctrines in the Pauline Epistles), and is also why commentators seem confusing, misunderstanding them and often the writers of the Word.

It's not that they are confusing. It's the simple fact that they are not the definitive source of knowledge. They're just plain wrong in these doctrinal systems they've built (speaking generally of all theologians, of course).

You're essentially saying the church can't understand the scriptures except that theologians explain them to us.
You may not be aware of this, but this is exactly the thing that the indwelling Holy Spirit in this New Covenant put an end to.

This system of teachers lording it over the flock and discerning truth for us has ended. It's not that we don't need teachers. What has ended is the worldly system of Spirit-less people ending up in positions of authority and impressing their misguided, Spirit-less agendas on the flock, telling us we're not suited or equipped or chosen to discern truth.

We learn from each other the way Paul said we do that.

"26What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up." - 1 Corinthians 14:26

And we discern the truth for ourselves in what we're hearing because now every believer has the anointing to discern what is true and what is not. That's why believers who continue in the faith and have pure hearts can't be deceived.

 

[LovethroughDove]

We are not to judge what is fake and what is not.
If you're sincere, your attempt to be righteous will lead you to frustration and defeat and on to the righteousness of God......exactly as God intended. So never discourage anyone from seeking to live righteously. Never tell anyone to not do anything just because God has not perfected his life in them yet. As I say, I expect BB to keep his hands, feet, and eyeballs on his side of the fence while he's waiting to be perfected in Christ. That way I'm not sinned against, and he's not guilty of sinning against me. That is what God expects of him, and that is what God expects of me.

I assumed I am talking to "Christians". This is the Theology section and not the meet and greet section. I thought I could talk about the deep mysteries that have been revealed in Christ. I'm not discouraging to live righteously, I'm encouraging Christians to let Christ do his righteousness through us.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test?

If people haven't gotten to this point in their faith, all I can say is..........test yourself if you are even in the faith.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I assumed I am talking to "Christians". This is the Theology section and not the meet and greet section. I thought I could talk about the deep mysteries that have been revealed in Christ. I'm not discouraging to live righteously, I'm encouraging Christians to let Christ do his righteousness through us.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test?

If people haven't gotten to this point in their faith, all I can say is..........test yourself if you are even in the faith.

This is what BB needs to be told.
For some reason his heretical 'Super Duper Grace' beliefs have slipped right past you.
I've been wondering how you haven't seen them right in his own words.

Grace is indeed 'Super Duper', just not in the way he claims it is.
Freegrace doctrine was created to rationalize and justify living in sin. Plain and simple.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

This latter day thrust to bring unbelievers into the church is what has fostered this rise in Gnostic Freegrace beliefs, IMO. It is the leaven that overtakes and destroys the church in this end time before Christ comes back, IMO.

 

[LovethroughDove]

This is what BB needs to be told.
For some reason his heretical 'Super Duper Grace' beliefs have slipped right past you.
I've been wondering how you haven't seen them right in his own words.

Grace is indeed 'Super Duper', just not in the way he claims it is.
Freegrace doctrine was created to rationalize and justify living in sin. Plain and simple.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

This latter day thrust to bring unbelievers into the church is what has fostered this rise in Gnostic Freegrace beliefs, IMO.

I have not seen him justify living in sin. I am seeing him admit he is a sinner which we ALL need to get real about ourselves. The only thing I am having a problem with what he is saying is the confessing our sin, cause that is how he purifies us. But then again it goes on to say this: 1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense - Jesus Christ

Like say you aren't relying on the Spirit on a situation and it goes badly (which it alway does) and you sin.............

 

[JLB]

You're essentially saying the church can't understand the scriptures except that theologians explain them to us.
You may not be aware of this, but this is exactly the thing that the indwelling Holy Spirit in this New Covenant put an end to.

This is so true.

This would probably make a good thread topic.




JLB

 

[JLB]

This system of teachers lording it over the flock and discerning truth for us has ended. It's not that we don't need teachers. What has ended is the worldly system of Spirit-less people ending up in positions of authority and impressing their misguided, Spirit-less agendas on the flock, telling us we're not suited or equipped or chosen to discern truth.

All the while “fleecing” the sheep with never ending pleas for money.

It’s great to support ministries who are actively taking care of the sheep, feeding the poor, teaching the truth and doing the work of a Spirit led ministry.


However, the idea of “leadership” living as kings while the “laity” can’t even pay there own bills is the doctrine of the Nicolatians.

The very doctrine Jesus hates.



JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Freegrace doctrine was created to rationalize and justify living in sin. Plain and simple.

Prove it.....
Sinning ,for me ,is like sticking my hand in a fire....why on “ earth” would I want to encourage it,rationalize it, or justify
Statements like these that you make on an everyday basis just reveal your ignorance about the subject
Not to brag, but I’m a pretty sharp guy.....I get a lot of stuff......like, Sin is Bad.....Obedience is Good....I strongly oppose the former....I fully support the latter.... The only thing I am trying to say and share is this——-Sinning is Bad , But it does not send you to Hell....it will get you punished with the hope being it will help drive sin out of your life— for your OWN benefit. Isn’t that the reason you punish your OWN Children? They may not understand it and they certainly will not like it , but as they mature and have Children Of their own , they will figure it out. The main thing is, we do not “ disown or “ cast out” errant and foolish children . God is like this with His Children
I have heard it explained this way—— If we send a rocket ship to the moon and it gets “ off course”, do we just abandon it and let it crash to the ground? Of course not—- we “ tweak” it...we “ fine - tune it” to get it back on its proper course.....
God does not Damn His precious Children ever time the get “ off course”.....He uses a combination of Chastisement and Holy Spirit Transformation to conform us into the Image Of His Son
In our Christian Walk , we carry with us the Burden Of our Old Adamic Nature ...Believers can and WILL be weak at times and disobey what their New Nature would prefer they do......Believers do not constantly bounce back and forth and in and out of Salvation 50 times a day. Grace is what covers our sins during our Walk Of Faith as God attends to the Task Of changing us from the inside out ( that “ INSIDE of the Cup” thing)
We will be punished for sins during the time we spend on Earth ......rest assured all you vengeful Legalist and Religionists .....Believers can try to take advantage of Grace but Nobody “ gets away” with anything
We must never forget that our Salvation was a GIFT from God that we not receive because our Behavior was Good , and on the Flip side we don’t lose that Salvation when we are Bad.....Our Salvation BEGAN with a Pure Act Of Grace and even though your Behavior is very apt to improve over time, you will still be enough of a Sinner to need a TON of that Grace the Day you Die.... From beginning to end, it is “ ALL of Grace”, otherwise , we just do not stand a Chance
God has us ALL “ trapped like Rats”......we can’t be Perfect, which is the Standard to get into Heaven , and “ Trying” to be Perfect by obeying all the Rules and Commandments in order to be “ Worthy” is a Fool’s Errand......Trying to do everything that we should do can only show us the utter futility of it......Follow God’s Way to get to Heaven—- Grace is the only thing that works and that is why I go with “ Super Hyper Grace”......Knowing That all of my Sins are on the Cross and that I can not be damned for them is what Spurs the Love For God that leads to a Heart- Felt Obedience that God wants us to live ......Obedience is PARAMOUNT to the Christian Life ...one must understand and LIVE the Life Of Grace To activate that TRUE OBEDIENCE.....
God bless....

 

[netchaplain]

It's the simple fact that they are not the definitive source of knowledge.

True, the sole source of understanding the Word of God is the Holy Spirit (1Co 2:13), He being the Author of the Word of God (2Ti 3:16; 2Pe 1:20, 21). The fact that man can never be the determining factor of understanding God's Word is why it requires the Spirit teach it, so man can teach what He teaches. All believers receive a certain amount of understanding from the Spirit, and it's in a degree that leads to requiring seeking Him for increasing understanding. Thus I believe the more one seeks to walk in His love to others (esp. other believers - Gal 6:10, which is the definitive telltale of a professing Christian - Jhn 13:35), the more He gives them to understand His Word, because manifest His love is the purpose of His Word.

 

[netchaplain]

You're essentially saying the church can't understand the scriptures except that theologians explain them to us.

I'm simply saying they understand the Word more than most Bible studying believers. It's only common sense to reason that the more time, prayer and practical application given to the study of God's Word, the more you will understand (all students being equally sincere and genuine in seeking only truth).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Prove it.....

"Wisdom is proved right by all her children..." - Luke 7:35

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

"Wisdom is proved right by all her children..." - Luke 7:35

Well, that certainly made things clear...... clear as mud.
.

 

[JLB]

Sinning is Bad , But it does not send you to Hell...

Then why did Jesus need to go to the cross and suffer a horrible death if sinning doesn't send a person to hell ?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Well, that certainly made things clear...... clear as mud.
.

The proof is in the puddin'.
That's what it means.

 

[Tradidi]

Then why did Jesus need to go to the cross and suffer a horrible death if sinning doesn't send a person to hell ?

I'm just wondering, is there a minimum requirement here to be considered a Christian?

 

[jerry63935]

We are not to judge what is fake and what is not.

that all depends on what type judging, isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
1 John 2:19-21
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

Never tell anyone to not do anything just because God has not perfected his life in them yet.

once again this depends on what it is galatians 6:1 paul had tell peter he was wrong Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. paul had to tell peter he was wrong. correction in love saturated in much prayer. seeking the holy spirit give the right words to say.
i dont know you but will use you as a example . if saw you out in public drunk as a skunk. when you was sober i should come to you in love..