Temporal Salvation?

[Blood Bought 1953]

Then why did Jesus need to go to the cross and suffer a horrible death if sinning doesn't send a person to hell ?

“ All have Sinned,all have come short of the Glory Of God ........“The Wages Of Sin Are Death” .... “ Without the Shedding Of Blood , the is NO FORGIVENESS of Sins....

Had Jesus not fulfilled His Mission at the Cross...paying the entire Sin Debt in Full, everybody who ever drew breath and committed just one sin would be damned to Hell forever .Because Of His Sacrifice , because God was so satisfied with the Crucifixion Of His Son , Sin is no longer the-issue..... God Put the sins of the Entire World upon His Son and the issue now has become—- DO YOU BELIEVE IT ?

Adams Sin Put Mankind in a downward Spiral.....Jesus rescued us from all of that when He Shed His Blood at the Cross......no man is in Hell tonight for his “ sins” .Jesus took care of the Sin Issue 2000 years ago.....the issue now is one of Faith.....do you have the Faith That Jesus “ died for your Sins?” Do you Truly Believe That on the third day he rose from the dead? Believing that Gospel is how one “ Cashes In” to appropriate what Christ has already done for you....if you Believe these two Truths...you have passed from Death unto Life and you are Saved.

 

[JLB]

For Men and Women Of Faith who have Trusted in Jesus and NOTHING else for their Salvation

Jesus is the only One we trust and no one else for salvation.

Which is why we are to obey Him and no one else.

After all we have confessed Him as our Lord, so we need to trust Him and obey Him as our Lord. He wants us to love His people; the people of His kingdom, and do what is right toward them.

That being said let's discuss some scriptures that speak to our position that we both agree upon.

And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. 1 John 4:16


If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen? 1 John 4:20


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15


If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 1 John 15:10


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Everything in these scriptures involves trusting Jesus and therefore living our life in the way of loving and trusting Him, and therefore loving and our neighbor.


Do you agree?



JLB

 

[JLB]

God Put the sins of the Entire World upon His Son and the issue now has become—- DO YOU BELIEVE IT ?

Yes, I believe Jesus took the sin of the whole world, and there is no other sacrifice for sin. There is no other name under heaven by which men can be saved.

Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
Acts 4:12

Therefore we are to trust Him and Him alone as our Savior and Lord.

Which is why we are to build our lives upon what He teaches us.


Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.” Luke 6:47-49

• But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.”

Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matthew 7:14


If we are to travel the difficult road that leads to life, we must trust Him and Him alone to guide us along the way.


Therefore doing what He says or not is the difference between eternal life and eternal death.



JLB

 

[JLB]

There is only ONE “ requirement “ Salvation—— ASK...

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



Sorry bro, if Jesus is our Lord then we need to trust Him and obey Him as Lord; Him and Him alone.



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The proof is in the puddin'.

Lol......get your “ Old Sayings” straight, my Worthy Foe......”The proof of the pudding is in the tasting”.....don’t worry about it —it’s a common mistake!

I dumbed it down for you because you were complaining about my complex sentences.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm not discouraging to live righteously, I'm encouraging Christians to let Christ do his righteousness through us.

And I have no reason to doubt that you are indeed doing that.
Freegrace doctrine, on the other hand, says you are sinning if you are doing righteous things in your own power and so it is better for you to not do those things. And they call that 'resting in Christ'. This is the point you're failing to see in the Freegrace OSAS message. You seem to be like a lot of other people. The instant they hear 'OSAS' from a person all is good and they can't hear anything else that is being said.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test?

If people haven't gotten to this point in their faith, all I can say is..........test yourself if you are even in the faith.

In Freegrace doctrine to test yourself you simply ask yourself,
"do I believe in Christ?"
"Yep. I'm good."
"I've passed the test. Good to go."

And off to their lifestyle of 'resting in Christ' they go. Little knowing that to rest in Christ is to rest from the taskmaster of sin.

The sign of being in Christ is being at rest from sin (our spiritual Sabbath), and the putting off of the deeds of the flesh (our spiritual circumcision). If you don't have these signs in your life and you are still living in sin (as opposed to struggling with it.) You have failed the test. You are not in the faith.

(You know I'm not saying 'you', personally, right? I mean all of us.)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

——-Sinning is Bad , But it does not send you to Hell....

It will if it your sinning is done from a willful and purposeful 'I don't care about the blood' stance.
Only for believers, who cling to the ministry of Christ in faith, does sinning not result in damnation to hell.
But the (ex) believer who walks away from Christ doesn't have the benefit of his ongoing ministry in heaven anymore to keep his sin from condemning him to hell.

The main thing is, we do not “ disown or “ cast out” errant and foolish children . God is like this with His Children

Errant and foolish children are not disinherited.
Reckless, rebellious children who treat the family inheritance with contempt are.
Just ask yourself how a child treats his inheritance with contempt and you'll understand how a child of God will be disinherited for his contempt for his inheritance.

I have heard it explained this way—— If we send a rocket ship to the moon and it gets “ off course”, do we just abandon it and let it crash to the ground? Of course not—- we “ tweak” it...we “ fine - tune it” to get it back on its proper course.....
God does not Damn His precious Children ever time the get “ off course”.....He uses a combination of Chastisement and Holy Spirit Transformation to conform us into the Image Of His Son

Rockets that respond to correction are not destroyed.
Rockets that have stopped responding to correction and are out of control and in danger of harming others are in fact destroyed.

You're just not understanding this sin issue.
The person who is continuing in his faith, clinging to the forgiveness they have in Christ, sin out of weakness and ignorance and sometimes stupidity. As long as they keep making their appeal for forgiveness to the ministry of Christ operating in heaven on their behalf their struggle with sin is covered by that ministry. But for the sinning person who purposely treats the ministry of Christ with contempt and sins willfully and doesn't care about the ministry of Christ, his sin will result in damnation. Likewise, the person who sins on purpose because he thinks the blood of Christ is a license to sin will go to hell. He is treating the blood by which he was sanctified with contempt. He will be punished with the wrath of God along with the enemies of God, not lovingly punished with the children of God.

 

[for_his_glory]

By “Universalist” do you mean those people that believe falsely that Everybody is going to make it to Heaven in the end ? I am NOT one of those poor , Bible Ignorant Saps.....
Everybody COULD make it to Heaven—-Jesus, by Himself , did Everything necessary for any body to obtain Salvation......His Shed Blood was Adequate to pay the price for every Sin That was ever committed or shall ever “BE” committed......Yes, Jesus did everything that had to be done to get all of Mankind Saved.......The only thing a Lost,Wretched Sinner like myself or anybody else has to do now is to “ Cash In” on what Jesus had already accomplished 2000 years ago.We “cash in” and thereby become Saved when we Believe Two Things— Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead......that is the Gospel.....we are are Commanded in Hebrews to REST in this Gospel or we will be declared “ Disobedient and Guilty Of UNBELIEF”. Scary stuff, indeed.......Many Of The “ Obedience Hounds” out there that obsess with “ Do Do This and Don’t Do That” never discuss the biggest Obedience Rule out there—- REST in the Gospel of Paul ( 1Cor15:1-4) , Given to Paul by Jesus personally.
Wanna take a test to see if you are Not Guilty Of “ UNbelief?” If you truly Trust God and Rest in His Promise to Save you if you Simply Believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the grave, you will have NO REASON to ever doubt your Salvation again....if you are NOT saved by Trusting the Gospel Alone , That would make God a Liar ....
And that is impossible . God bless....

If you are not of this religion then why are you pushing their teaching about giving assurance to unrepentant sinners that they are eternally secure because Jesus died for the whole world and that a repentant life is not necessary because you were forgiven when you believed in Christ?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

We have asked you for the scriptures that support what you are trying to teach, but yet you neglect to give them. Why is this?

I see you are a good person have a heart for the Lord, but have allowed yourself to follow a man's religious doctrine neglecting the one and only true doctrine which is what Jesus has already taught, which we have been trying to teach you. No one is coming against you personally, but against these heresies you are bringing into this forum. You run long post, but void of scripture like reading a mixture of written prompts. We only ask that you provide the scriptures that support what you are teaching as of what anyone teaches without the proper scriptures no one should ever just take it at face value.

 

[JLB]

As long as they keep making their appeal for forgiveness to the ministry of Christ operating in heaven on their behalf their struggle with sin is covered by that ministry.

From what I have read of his many posts, this seems to be the core problem he seems to be ignoring.


This doctrine blinds people of their need to come to Christ for forgiveness and cleansing, by confessing their sin... appealing to His mercy that we know endures forever.


Thinking that Christ forgives all our future sins automatically the moment we believe is the most dangerous part of the Hyper Free Grace doctrine.


This causes people to ignore their continuing need for a Savior and His gracious kindness to cleanse and restore us daily.


Eventually the person becomes so hardened and dead to God, they depart from the faith... While all along the Lord is waiting for them to repent and return to Him.



Sad.





JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

I had more to say about the Blood atop the Mercy Seat , But I got distracted by my daughter who kept badgering me for a ride on the Harley.....


The most Valuable thing in God’s Great Universe is the Blood Of His Son ......That Precious Blood That Paid the Price for “ The Sins Of the World” is still at the place where Jesus placed it 200 years ago. It is atop the Heavenly Mercy Seat. The Law that Fallen Man could never Keep is symbolized by the broken stone 10 Commandments held within The Heavenly “ Ark of the Covenant” ......For Men and Women Of Faith who have Trusted in Jesus and NOTHING else for their Salvation , God can’t look at any of the Broken Laws Without first having to see the Blood—- That Blood That was placed there personally by Jesus after His Ascension will be a Constant Reminder throughout Eternity Of the INCALCUBLE Price That Jesus Paid to be able to extend to all Believers the Grace That got themRedeemed and Saved..

We are no longer under the curse of the law, Galatians 3:10-14, but under the new dispensation of God's grace through faith in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:8. What follows faith is obedience to God's commands and statures as we begin the good works of faith as we were created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them, Ephesians 2:10. Faith without works is dead faith, James 2:17-19.

The blood of Jesus has redeemed us from the curse of the law as we now live by faith in the finished works of Christ Jesus while He hung on the cross who by the shedding of His blood made atonement once and for all for all our sin and now sits at the right hand of God making intercession for us, Romans 8:34. Those who think that this was enough and continues willingly in sin are in danger of a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries as they grieve and quench the Holy Spirit, Hebrews 10:26, 27; Ephesians 4:29-32; 1 Thessalonians 5:15-23.

After we are Spiritually regenerated through Spiritual rebirth and indwelled with the Holy Spirit, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10, there is no rest until we are caught up to Christ when He returns on the last day and our rest will be in the New Jerusalem to all whose names are found written in the Lamb's book of life. We will have tribulations while here on earth as Satan will always try to kill, steal and try to destroy us, John 10:10; Acts 14:22; 1 Peter 5:6-11.

After accepting God's salvation by His grace through faith that is Christ Jesus we do not just sit back and continue in our sins, but strive for that perfection that is in Christ Jesus as we grow in faith, 1 John 2:1-29. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries, Hebrews 10:26, 27.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Hebrews 4:1-7 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
"So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'"
And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: And on the seventh day God rested from all his work." And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest."
It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
"Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."

Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest."

John 5:39-40 "You diligently study the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

I believe you all are speaking to some people. I would see those people as those seeking the truth, but haven't received the Spirit of truth yet. John 14:17 You who are coming down on BB......you don't see that the resting in the finished work brings about a Lordship of Jesus that cannot be matched if you still think you have something to bring to the table.

BB did not say he condones sin.......yet you all pounce on him like he did. He said he'd rather put his hand in fire that is how good sin feels to him now.

If you think that we become automatically sinless after receiving the Spirit, that does not happen. We walk with the Lord, we listen to the Lord and then we let Jesus do "his" thing when situations arise. (Dead to self, Alive in Christ).

 

[LovethroughDove]

We are "being" transformed into his likeness. 2 Corinthians 3:18
This is a process.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

From what I have read of his many posts, this seems to be the core problem he seems to be ignoring.


This doctrine blinds people of their need to come to Christ for forgiveness and cleansing, by confessing their sin... appealing to His mercy that we know endures forever.


Thinking that Christ forgives all our future sins automatically the moment we believe is the most dangerous part of the Hyper Free Grace doctrine.


This causes people to ignore their continuing need for a Savior and His gracious kindness to cleanse and restore us daily.


Eventually the person becomes so hardened and dead to God, they depart from the faith... While all along the Lord is waiting for them to repent and return to Him.



Sad.





JLB

Bingo!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We are "being" transformed into his likeness. 2 Corinthians 3:18
This is a process.

It is a process.
But Freegrace has the believer exiting the process and deceiving them that they are still somehow in it. And as JLB points out, the deceitfulness of their sin may cause them to be hardened in unbelief. Remember, the Bible talks about people being shocked and surprised at the return of Christ, thinking they were good with him all along. But the Bible has told us ahead of time how we can know that we are ready to meet Christ when he returns. And it ain't because you say you believe. The proof that accompanies genuine, saving belief is what tells us whether or not we're ready to meet Christ at the resurrection.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Therefore doing what He says or not is the difference between eternal life and eternal death.

Yes! We MUST do the Will Of God! Jesus told His Disciples That “ The Will Of The Father” was THIS——- “ BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT HE SENT”...... I do that ....I also do the Ultimate Thing to be Found in Christianity......I REST in the Gospel.....that means I NEVER have to worry about My Salvation......how about you? Are you “ Resting” as you are Commanded to do in Hebrews ? Or are you “Worried” about your Salvation and “ working” to keep it. Was Watchman Nee correct when he said that your decision to Rest or Work is the difference between an Eternity in Heaven or an Eternity in Hell? This is a general Post , put out for all to consider.....it is not a personal attack on anybody—— when I ask “ you”, it is a Generic “ you”.......

 

[LovethroughDove]

It is a process.
But Freegrace has the believer exiting the process and deceiving them that they are still somehow in it. And as JLB points out, the deceitfulness of their sin may cause them to be hardened in unbelief. Remember, the Bible talks about people being shocked and surprised at the return of Christ, thinking they were good with him all along. But the Bible has told us ahead of time how we can know that we are ready to meet Christ when he returns. And it ain't because you say you believe. The proof that accompanies genuine, saving belief is what tells us whether or not we're ready to meet Christ at the resurrection.

I understand what you have been trying to say the whole time. I don't disagree with it, because it did get me to the point in my faith where I am now. But God does take us further into deep mysteries called walking in the Spirit and you all have posted those scriptures too. That is where I am at personally in my journey. Letting go of my fleshly walk in myself.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Therefore doing what He says or not is the difference between eternal life and eternal death.

The difference between eternal life and eternal death is your faith.
Doing what he commands shows you have faith in God.
Not doing what he commands shows you do not have faith in God.

Not doing what he commands shows you are not spiritually circumcised in a putting off of the deeds of the flesh, and have not entered into the spiritual Sabbath in a resting from the deeds of the flesh. These are the two 'sign' commands of the covenant--circumcision and Sabbath keeping. They show if you are in covenant with God and belong to him or not. If you are not 'keeping' the spiritual reality of these commands you show that you are not in Covenant with God through Jesus Christ.

Freegrace doctrine contradicts this completely and says it doesn't matter what you do. You are saved whether you live for him or not, and that you don't even have to continue to believe in Christ to be saved when he comes back. It says there is no sign of being saved except for your lip service to Christ somewhere in the past.

 

[JLB]

Yes! We MUST do the Will Of God! Jesus told His Disciples That “ The Will Of The Father” was THIS——- “ BELIEVE IN THE ONE THAT HE SENT”...... I do that ...

Your stuck in the notion that believe simply means... realize He exists... or realize He died for your sins.


This shallow definition isn't biblical believing which corresponds more with obey.

IOW demons believe, but continue to obey Satan as their lord.

• “But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?

“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Whoever comes to Me, and hears My sayings and does them, I will show you whom he is like: He is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently against that house, and could not shake it, for it was founded on the rock. But he who heard and did nothing is like a man who built a house on the earth without a foundation, against which the stream beat vehemently; and immediately it fell. And the ruin of that house was great.” Luke 6:46-49


That's why you seem shocked when I post scriptures about keeping His Commandments, only dismissing me as a pharisacial legalistic while claiming you believe Him.


Its why those on the Day of Judgement are surprised and ask... when did we see you hungry, sick, in prison...


It will be too late then.



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

“ All have Sinned,all have come short of the Glory Of God ........“The Wages Of Sin Are Death” .... “ Without the Shedding Of Blood , the is NO FORGIVENESS of Sins....

Had Jesus not fulfilled His Mission at the Cross...paying the entire Sin Debt in Full, everybody who ever drew breath and committed just one sin would be damned to Hell forever .Because Of His Sacrifice , because God was so satisfied with the Crucifixion Of His Son , Sin is no longer the-issue..... God Put the sins of the Entire World upon His Son and the issue now has become—- DO YOU BELIEVE IT ?

Adams Sin Put Mankind in a downward Spiral.....Jesus rescued us from all of that when He Shed His Blood at the Cross......no man is in Hell tonight for his “ sins” .Jesus took care of the Sin Issue 2000 years ago.....the issue now is one of Faith.....do you have the Faith That Jesus “ died for your Sins?” Do you Truly Believe That on the third day he rose from the dead? Believing that Gospel is how one “ Cashes In” to appropriate what Christ has already done for you....if you Believe these two Truths...you have passed from Death unto Life and you are Saved.

You have been saying throughout this thread that no one will go to hell because Jesus took all the sins upon him and now you are saying that it is only the ones who believe and have faith in Him, which this I agree with.

What about those who have no faith and reject God and His Son Christ Jesus. Are they too saved by the blood of Christ who has taken all the sins of the world and put them on Himself?

Even the devils believed as they were with God and Jesus from the beginning before the creation of the world, but they chose to rebel against God as God cast them out of His Spiritual realm as they are reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

 

[JLB]

BB did not say he condones sin.......

You must not be reading his posts.



JLB