Texas man catches child rapist in the act, kills him.

[D4Christ]

I understand the sentiment but I disapprove of it. I am a sexual abuse survivor and I know all too well what pedophiles are plus what they are capable of. However, I am able to put aside my personal feelings to be like Christ because that is what God demands of me and of all Christians.

One cannot celebrate the overcoming of evil through death and destruction. That is not what Christ taught. We can celebrate overcoming of evil by using love and being Christ-like. If this pedophile had lived he might have given his life to the Lord and overcome the evil that is in him. Now he does not have that chance. This is what I mean by celebrating the overcoming of evil through love. Now that this pedophile is dead he has no chance of being saved and so we should be saddened by this fact.

I am sorry you had to suffer abuse. What we are dealing with is people's personal feelings and I don't think anyone of us is able to judge another since what one person finds easy to put aside may be extremely difficult for someone else.

That being said, God gives all of us ample chance to accept his gospel message and be saved thru the grace of his Son. To say this man did not have a chance to be saved is to say God was unfair to him by allowing him to die without the chance at salvation. At judgement non of us will have an excuse for not accepting Christ for the gospel is preached to all...including those who died before Christ came.

Rom

<SUP id=en-NLT-27911 class=versenum>20</SUP> For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

2 Peter 3

<SUP id=en-NLT-30497 class=versenum>15</SUP> And remember, the Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him

I also disagree with the use of the word celebrate. Non of us are in a partying mood. But we are in good company with scriptures over rejoicing over God's victory over the enemy and all who follow him. Whether its past or future context scriptures make it clear that those in heaven praise God and call his judgement true and fair when the enemy falls.

 

[Mike]

As Christians, we should be able to discuss topics like this without hostility or personal insults. DO NOT call people shameful, foolish or anything like that or you begin to resemble your own remark. Of course this goes for people on both sides of the issue. There's no reason to take someone's opinion on the matter personally, but it becomes personal when we resort to insults.

Listen, read, discuss, explain, attempt to understand.

Thank you.

 

[Mike]

There now...

I don't know if I'd be able to control my rage if I were in his spot. As a father of 3, 2 of which are 11 & 14 YO girls, I might just snap.

But that's not good.

Is the Lord slow to anger or does He quickly respond out of emotion? We are all horrified by the idea of this happening to a child, and rightly so, but I need to ask this... How dark, how objectionable, how evil is our sin (all of our sin) to the Lord. Can He be in the presence of it? We are all deserving of death, are we not? Should the angels cheer over our demise?

If you laid a yard stick out in front of yourself, and tried to view it from God's perspective. Christ is on the right end, and this child molester is on the left. From God's perspective, are you closer (absent Christ's blood) to Jesus' end or the child molester's.

From God's perspective, I don't think I'm very far from the the left end compared to Christ on the right.

I imagine I could well snap, but if I could choose the best action to take, it wouldn't be to kill him. It would be to get my daughter out of danger and render the guy incapable of moving until the police arrive. (incapable of moving does not equal dead). I'm reminded of Peter snapping in the garden of Gethsemane, and Jesus wouldn't have it.

 

[Navigator]

I would just like to ask anyone/everyone here: Should our opinions on the matter be altered at all due to the fact that a sinful being committed the sinful act on a blameless being. It's my understanding that all children who are unable to understand the Gospel is blameless to the Lord. The man who raped the child was a sinner like the rest of us. I don't think it would be right to say the man deserved death over anyone else based on his sin, BUT does the fact his sin was against a truly innocent child of God...does that change things?

Thoughts?

 

[jasoncran]

hitler may have died in soviet hands. they had his body for years.alas another topic.

 

[stovebolts]

Just to be clear Free,

God does not rejoice in the destruction of the wicked.

Then why are so many in here rejoicing?

I have read over every response and I do not see anyone rejoicing over the destruction of the pedophile. Please show me where the champagine bottles are being uncorked.

I am reminded of the story where David's son was killed by his army. The whole army rejoiced because David's son could no longer hurt the nation. Yet David wept over the loss of his son. I believe I what you are hearing from myself and others is Joab's voice. What we hear from you is David's voice.

2 Samuel 19:5-6 And Joab came into the house to the king, and said, Thou hast shamed this day the faces of all thy servants, which this day have saved thy life, and the lives of thy sons and of thy daughters, and the lives of thy wives, and the lives of thy concubines; In that thou lovest thine enemies, and hatest thy friends. For thou hast declared this day, that thou regardest neither princes nor servants: for this day I perceive, that if Absalom had lived, and all we had died this day, then it had pleased thee well.

But if is rejoicing you wuold like to address, please read Exodus 15. Did God scold Moses or Miriam? No, but he did bring them to the bitter water as a reminder that victory is bitter sweet.

When I look at this father, I see a man who is repulsed and is responding in rage. Such a thing should enrage a father.

The focus is not that a man was killed. The focus is on a man acting in rage from an atrocious and disturbing sexual act being performed on his 4 year old daughter. The cause of death was not premeditated, and so I do not fault the Father for responding with such a way. No parent should have to restrain themselves as they actively see their child being hurt. It is the primary role of a parent to protect their children.

Restraint is only for those Christians who have disciplined themselves. It is the flesh of man that cannot restrain the rage.

Now your talking ideologies, not real life. Even Paul says that what he wants to do, he does not do and what he does not want to do, he does. Nobody has achieved perfection. That is not to say we should not strive for perfection because we should strive for perfection, but the reality is that nobody has achieved perfection, and it's not an excuse, it's just a reality. Below you say that you don't know what you would do, yet you scold us that know exactly what we would do. God knows our emotional outbursts, and it was accomodated for by way of sanctuaries for those who killed others out of emotional situations just like what happened in this story.

it sad that the man died. In a way yes, but what is sadder is the horrible act that he committed on this innocent child, and more than likely the children before him. From that perspective, I have zero pity on this man. Do not mistake my lack of pity for the pedophile as one jumping up and down rejoicing that a man was killed.

What is sad Duane, is the amount of pedophiles that are sent to prison and then get released back into society to re offend. No child should have that scar, and when a child is scared because the pedophile has been released only to re offend again and again, then shame on our laws.

I do pity the pedophile, but I do not pity his actions. I despise his actions. They are atrocious. That a father acted as a father would act when confronted with that scene, then I do not pity the pedophile for being beaten to death. Considering the circumstances, his death is justified.

How is his death justified? Are we under Mosaic Law? Are you God and able to pronounce such judgements, never mind being willing to carry out such judgement? God alone is judge and we are not to repay evil for evil or be overcome by evil.

It is bitter sweet Duane. I am not sure if you can understand that or not. Nobody is repaying evil for evil and nobody is bringing up mosiac law. It is justified because a man was having sex with a fathers 4 year old daughter and the father caught them. In a rage, the father killed the man having sex with his 4 year old daughter. The Father is not guilty of murder, and the killing is justified. The father did nothing wrong. Is it sad that the pedophile died? Yes, but it is justified. As with the bitter waters of Marah, it is bitter sweet. Why is this such a hard concept for you to understand? Why are we now not able to find comfort that evil will no longer be present through that man to do god knows what with his next innocent victim even though it comes through the bitterness associated with his death?

Answer us this Duane, how would you react if you found some man being sexually active with your 4 year old daughter? I'm really curious how you think you would have handled that situation.

I am not going to address hypothetical situations and how I may react. I simply don't know.

Then you have little place in this discussion. You take the moral high road without a clear path to follow with little understanding or sympathy for the father who now has to live with the result of his actions. This father is clearly shaken by beating the pedophile to death and I'm sure those pictures of beating a man to his death will give him many nightmares in the coming years. I have held two dead bodies in my arms during my lifetime. One was my daughter and another was a boy who drowned at a lake. Most people can't look at a dead body in a casket, let alone touch a dead body, and this father beat a man to death with his own bare hands. That will be in his head for a long, long time... And what of the pictures of his baby daughter being raped? Those pictures will also be in his head till the day he dies. He will be forever emotionally scared because of the evil of one man. Tell me, do you believe the father should recieve the death penalty for murder? How do you feel about that whole story?

Moreso, why do you believe that you could restrain yourself from hitting that guy any more than the father? But what I won't accept Duane, is that you wouldn't get angry.

If you can show me where I made such a claim, I'll address it.

What I am showing you Duane is that your ideologies are bigger than your britches. Ideologies are fine, but sometimes where the rubber meets the road is the real test. Face it, you would be angry if you walked in on some grown man having sex with your daughter. If you didn't get angry, then something would be seriously wrong with you. Even a wild animal protects their young, and would kill anything that would pose any kind of a threat to their young.

 

[stovebolts]

So the Cross means nothing?

The cross performs the function of the Altar... Most don't understand the function of the Altar, so they have a very limited understanding of the meaning of the cross.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

For what it's worth I would not have sought to kill the man. The sexual assault itself would obviously end as soon as I came in the room. I would attempt to subdue him so he can be taken into custody, and if either him or I died in the process, well, so be it. But he wouldn't be allowed to just walk away. I'm fairly confident that's how my anger would be directed. I would not determine to kill him for what he did. Only when my life, or the life of another is at stake would I resort to trying to kill someone to stop them.

We've all done things deserving death and unless I am forced to kill someone for what they've done deserving death I would not seek to do it.

 

[stovebolts]

Jethro,
I don't think many would go after killing this man. Actually, I do not believe it was the fathers intent to kill the pedophile either.

 

[Free]

The cross performs the function of the Altar... Most don't understand the function of the Altar, so they have a very limited understanding of the meaning of the cross.

Yet that has nothing to do with my statement and the argument to which I was responding.

 

[Elijah674]

I have read over every response and I do not see anyone rejoicing over the destruction of the pedophile. Please show me where the champagine bottles are being uncorked.

I am reminded of the story where David's son was killed by his army. The whole army rejoiced because David's son could no longer hurt the nation. Yet David wept over the loss of his son. I believe I what you are hearing from myself and others is Joab's voice. What we hear from you is David's voice.

2 Samuel 19:5-6 And Joab came into the house to the king, and said, Thou hast shamed this day the faces of all thy servants, which this day have saved thy life, and the lives of thy sons and of thy daughters, and the lives of thy wives, and the lives of thy concubines; In that thou lovest thine enemies, and hatest thy friends. For thou hast declared this day, that thou regardest neither princes nor servants: for this day I perceive, that if Absalom had lived, and all we had died this day, then it had pleased thee well.

But if is rejoicing you wuold like to address, please read Exodus 15. Did God scold Moses or Miriam? No, but he did bring them to the bitter water as a reminder that victory is bitter sweet.



Now your talking ideologies, not real life. Even Paul says that what he wants to do, he does not do and what he does not want to do, he does. Nobody has achieved perfection. That is not to say we should not strive for perfection because we should strive for perfection, but the reality is that nobody has achieved perfection, and it's not an excuse, it's just a reality. Below you say that you don't know what you would do, yet you scold us that know exactly what we would do. God knows our emotional outbursts, and it was accomodated for by way of sanctuaries for those who killed others out of emotional situations just like what happened in this story.



It is bitter sweet Duane. I am not sure if you can understand that or not. Nobody is repaying evil for evil and nobody is bringing up mosiac law. It is justified because a man was having sex with a fathers 4 year old daughter and the father caught them. In a rage, the father killed the man having sex with his 4 year old daughter. The Father is not guilty of murder, and the killing is justified. The father did nothing wrong. Is it sad that the pedophile died? Yes, but it is justified. As with the bitter waters of Marah, it is bitter sweet. Why is this such a hard concept for you to understand? Why are we now not able to find comfort that evil will no longer be present through that man to do god knows what with his next innocent victim even though it comes through the bitterness associated with his death?



Then you have little place in this discussion. You take the moral high road without a clear path to follow with little understanding or sympathy for the father who now has to live with the result of his actions. This father is clearly shaken by beating the pedophile to death and I'm sure those pictures of beating a man to his death will give him many nightmares in the coming years. I have held two dead bodies in my arms during my lifetime. One was my daughter and another was a boy who drowned at a lake. Most people can't look at a dead body in a casket, let alone touch a dead body, and this father beat a man to death with his own bare hands. That will be in his head for a long, long time... And what of the pictures of his baby daughter being raped? Those pictures will also be in his head till the day he dies. He will be forever emotionally scared because of the evil of one man. Tell me, do you believe the father should recieve the death penalty for murder? How do you feel about that whole story?



What I am showing you Duane is that your ideologies are bigger than your britches. Ideologies are fine, but sometimes where the rubber meets the road is the real test. Face it, you would be angry if you walked in on some grown man having sex with your daughter. If you didn't get angry, then something would be seriously wrong with you. Even a wild animal protects their young, and would kill anything that would pose any kind of a threat to their young.

Are we not still dancing all arount the point that Christ DIED because the GODHEAD [[HATES THE SIN]] & also that [[THEY LOVE THE PERSON]]???

And in this case, he was executed (allowed by God) in justice, nothing at all to do with murder.

 

[stovebolts]

Yet that has nothing to do with my statement and the argument to which I was responding.

Then within the context of you stating "So the Cross means nothing?", perhaps you would like to clarify for us exactly what that's suppose to mean because honestly, I'm not seeing it.

I would like to say Duane, that I do think you bring value into this discussion because you show value for human life. All human life. That is a good thing, and we should all value life. Everyone holds value. You are correct that we should not be breaking out in dance or drink in celebration of the death of a pedophile. But then again, I don't see anyone breaking out in celebration.

I'm not out to butt heads with you either duane, so I hope you don't view me as your nemesis. I'm not, I'm your brother just like the rest of the posters.

 

[Free]

Did you notice my sigline?

"He is not here, but we are".

Well, He was not there, but Daddy was. Bless Daddy. And damn, damn to hell the perp (if that is God's will, of course).

Who is this "He"? It can't be God because that would make your statement completely untrue.

 

[reba]

Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;


Do these verses suggest to anyone the father should have offered up another child to this pedophile? If so/not why so/not.

 

[Free]

Then within the context of you stating "So the Cross means nothing?", perhaps you would like to clarify for us exactly what that's suppose to mean because honestly, I'm not seeing it.

The argument was made to the Law, in which case the grace shown us all at the Cross is meaningless.

I would like to say Duane, that I do think you bring value into this discussion because you show value for human life. All human life. That is a good thing, and we should all value life. Everyone holds value. You are correct that we should not be breaking out in dance or drink in celebration of the death of a pedophile. But then again, I don't see anyone breaking out in celebration.

"I really hope no charges are pressed against this guy."

"Not having a lot of sympathy for the man who died right now."

"The creep will not harm another child..... We need more fathers like this one."

"From that perspective, I have zero pity on this man"

" That a father acted as a father would act when confronted with that scene, then I do not pity the pedophile for being beaten to death. Considering the circumstances, his death is justified."

"He should have killed him. In Biblical times he would have got stoned to death or he would have had to pay the father."

"I am thankful that there is one less child rapist in this world.
If we carried out justice this swiftly in every instance I believe there would be FAR less pedophiles out there to harm our children."

"the creep can not hurt another child"

"there IS a child out there somewhere who was eventually to be abused like this, and now, thanks to this father's act, this child will be untouched."

"Ok, fine, and I am glad he got destroyed for what he did, too. What is wrong with that?"

"Sounds like a celebration over evil to me."


The bottom line: many posters are glad he is dead and by the sounds of it, one or two would willingly do the same in the same circumstance. And don't make this about semantics and what "rejoicing" means. We have many posters who are approving that the pedophile is dead and are glad he is. There is no difference. At least one of the responses was in direct response to my saying that there are those rejoicing that the pedophile is dead, thereby implying that that poster is rejoicing.

Regardless, my initial point stands. Killing of a pedophile in such a circumstance is not a Christian response, nor is being glad or approving that the pedophile is dead.

 

[stovebolts]

Regardless, my initial point stands. Killing of a pedophile in such a circumstance is not a Christian response, nor is being glad or approving that the pedophile is dead.

Simply put, most are glad that the pedophile was stopped. I would say that all but yourself are able to put themselves in the fathers shoes, and sympathise with him at the atrocity he stumbled into. You on the other hand are more concerned with the pedophile than you are the father or his daughter and it shows by the way your scorning all of us who don't think like you do. That's a real shame Duane.

By reading your response, you actually think that the father is guilty of murder and needs to be punished for his actions don't you?

Ok Duane, lets dig into this. You up for it? How much stamina do you have? We can take this another 20 pages if your up for it. Don't take it personal, but lets get behind your ideology. Let's examine it a bit closer and see if it carries any weight.

First off, lets test this idea of yours. What scriptures do you use to support your view. That would be a great place to start. I'll follow your lead.

 

[Free]

Simply put, most are glad that the pedophile was stopped. I would say that all but yourself are able to put themselves in the fathers shoes, and sympathise with him at the atrocity he stumbled into. You on the other hand are more concerned with the pedophile than you are the father or his daughter. That's a real shame Duane.

The biggest problem so far is that most everyone opposing me has been far too presumptuous about my position. And quite frankly it gets tiring. A point was made to me and I addressed it, and that is all that I have been addressing. Do not presume anything else about what I have left unsaid.

 

[Nacho]

"Killing of a pedophile in such a circumstance is not a Christian response, nor is being glad or approving that the pedophile is dead."




How about an accidental Killing?

Which is what this is all about.

What if I am walking on the sidewalk with my daughter and some pervert tries to grab her from me. I try and protect her and push him away and in the process he falls into traffic and is hit and killed by a bus. Would you question if that was a Christian response?

 

[GojuBrian]

The biggest problem so far is that most everyone opposing me has been far too presumptuous about my position. And quite frankly it gets tiring. A point was made to me and I addressed it, and that is all that I have been addressing. Do not presume anything else about what I have left unsaid.

Quite frankly you haven't presented us with your position. You've only stated that our positions are wrong..in so many words.

I have an 8yr old daughter. Had this been her, it would be me in the headlines. I can't say I'd have much remorse....judge away!

 

[Free]

I'm done. Way too much presumption and not reading what I have actually written but I stand by everything I have said.