If that were true, these verses would not exist.
1 John 3:4
Rev. 3:10
Rev. 14:12
Matt. 5:19
Matt. 23:1-3
Luke 23:54-56
Acts 21:24
John 14:21
John 14:15
John 15:14
Psalm 111:7-8
All of Psalm 119
... and many more.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The 10 Commandments are for EVERYONE.
- Thread starter theWind
- Start date
1 John 3:4
Rev. 3:10
Rev. 14:12
Matt. 5:19
Matt. 23:1-3
Luke 23:54-56
Acts 21:24
John 14:21
John 14:15
John 15:14
Psalm 111:7-8
All of Psalm 119
... and many more.
Sorry, but I am not unaware of what some churches teach and you should not assume certain things about others. And what is the name of the church you attend on Saturdays for as far as I know I don't think God set apart just one day, whether it be Saturday, Sunday or ant particular day of the week. It was on a Sunday on the day of Pentecost that the first church was founded by the death and resurrection of Christ in Peter's first sermon to all who would hear him, Acts 2.
Mar 2:23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
Mar 2:25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
Mar 2:26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
The Ten Commandments were written on two tablets of stone by Gods own hand on Mt. Sinai and given to Moses. Seven of them were first spoken to Noah after the flood who would be considered a Gentile, (look up Noahic Laws) as it was Abraham that was first called a Hebrew by God, Genesis 14:13. Three of the Ten Commandments were added at the time of Moses as the population of the world grew and also turned away from God. What God gave to Moses was written in stone and placed in the Ark of the Covenant as Jew and Gentile are to follow all ten.
What Moses was also given by God on Mt. Sinai was to be written on parchment and only given to the Hebrews (Jews) as these were additional 603 laws and never intended for Gentiles. These laws were given after the exodus from Egypt as God brought the Jews to the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, Exodus 16:1, where they soon fell away from God once again going after other gods.
The Sabbath talked about in Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11 is Gods day of rest from all the work He accomplished that week. God hand wrote the commandment on tablet of stone as a day to keep holy in remembrance of all He created that was good and rested from all His work. It wasn't that God was tired, but that in a sense it's like taking a day off to do nothing as you finished your work for the week.
In Matthew 12:1-13 the Pharisees tried to accuse Jesus and His disciples of breaking the Sabbath and working that day as the disciples pluck some corn to eat while they were walking with Jesus in the field and that Jesus healing on the Sabbath, especially in the synagogue, was that of works, but Jesus told them it was lawful to do good on the Sabbath, which is different then working.
1. Deut. 29 takes place at Mt. Sinai.
2. You are suggesting that Moses said 'This covenant do I not only make with you, and with all who are present, but also with those who are dead.'
Sure that's what you wanna go with?
It only included all those who would ever obey His Commandments and walk in His Ways. Not all anybody forever.
We are brought into the Covenant by our obedience to God.
Deut. 28:9
It is a 100% conditional Covenant. As all God's promises are conditional.
That's why the Israelites were punished so harshly so many times, for centuries at a time sometimes, for their disobedience. They even lost the Land promised to them, which they fully received in Joshua.
This was long after Christ and Paul was teaching against the ceremonial/sacrificial Ordinances of the Mosaic Law. Paul never taught against the 10 Commandments. There are mounds of Scripture that would make no sense of the 10 Commandments were no longer in effect after Christ's death. I have already posted many of those verses in this thread.
The 10 Commandments have never, and never will be, abolished
I capitalize any possessive pronouns and possessive adjectives when God is speaking. That doesn't change the meaning of the verse in the least.
All is not yet accomplished til heaven and earth pass away.
Clearly not.
Rev. 14:12
No, none of the law has been abolished except the temple and sacrificial laws that Jesus already fulfilled. Go back and read my post #2 as we are to keep the moral laws contained in the 613 Levitical laws. Matthew 5:17-20
www.jewfaq.org
Very few know this below.
Noahic (Noah) Commandments are seven commandments first given to Adam by God before the flood and brought to remembrance by God to Noah after the flood, which are now binding on both Jew and Gentile as there were no Jew or Gentile in the days of Adam or Noah, and none today on this side of the cross as we are all one in the Spirit of God, Galatians 3:28. Abraham was the first one to be called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:13, and until the days of Jacob there was no land called Israel or any laws pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite as none of that existed yet. What there were was seven to begin with that are the laws that are written on our heart. Laws were added to as the generations grew until there became 613 that became a curse as no one could ever follow all of them.
Beginning with Genesis 2:16 the Babylonian Talmud, Avodah Zarah 8:4 and Sanhedrin 56ab listed six commandments given first to Adam and then again to Noah after the flood. The seven make up the first parts of the ten that God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai in Exodus 20. Below is a comparison list of the seven and the full ten which are all the first part of the 613 laws given to Moses as some were for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all, Jew and Gentile to follow that are written upon our heart. Christ did not come to destroy all the laws, but to fulfill the righteousness of the laws, Matthew 5:17-22.
Noahic Laws:
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
To establish courts of justice.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.
Mt. Sinai Laws:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.
Part of the ten laws broken down to various commands within one law:
Other gods and idols are as one not to worship, but broke down into two commands
Remember the Sabbath was added to the ten commandments by God as a remembrance of all God did in six days (Gods timing) and rested on the seventh, Genesis 2:1-3; Matthew 12:1-13
To establish courts of justice was only given to Noah for the new generations to come after the flood
Honor your father and mother was not given to Noah, but was added to the ten commandments by God as the generations grew.
Not to covet was added to the ten commandments by God, but broke down into seven commands as your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.
I don't assume anything. I am well aware of what I am presenting.
Besides SDA churches, you will be hard-pressed to find any churches in America teaching that Christians should keep the 10 Commandments. If you find one that is, and they gather on Sunday, they are not teaching God's 10 Commandments.
"And on the Seventh Day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the Seventh Day from all His work which He made. And God blessed the Seventh Day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made."
Gen. 2:2-3
God never blessed nor sanctified a single other day of the week for any reason ... ever. It is the only day He ever called His own and the only day we were ever told by Him to keep holy - it is the 4th Commandment of God's Law.
"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on My Holy Day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy (day) of the Lord, honorable, and shalt honor Him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, ..."
Isaiah 58:13
The Lord's Day is not Sunday. It is Saturday.
Were you trying to support my argument with this?
Like I said, you are only assuming without factual proof that only the SDA, in which I can only assume you are a part of and correct me if I am wrong, are the only ones who keep the ten commandments and everyone else says they no longer exist. This is a very bold assumption that carries no truth.
This is way too much information to justify your belief.
I will again post what Paul wrote. I accept his words, considered to be the word of God, over yours.
Romans 7:4-6, "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code."
There you have it! If you are a Christian, you have died to the law and are discharged from the law. So, your saying that none of the law has been abolished except the temple and sacrificial laws is clearly wrong.
How do you compare Romans with what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-20 and what I gave about the existing moral laws in post #2 that are for everyone to follow.
The information is found in those scriptures I gave already in justifying how I believe. Did you even take the time to go back and read post #2?
No, I did not go back and read post #2. I read what you posted in post #24.
You have it fixed in your mind that Christians must obey the law, even though the Bible clearly says the opposite, as I have shown.
Now, let's look at Matthew 5:17-18. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished."
To whom was Jesus speaking? The crowds -- of Jewish people. Not to Christians! Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law. His sacrifice did just that. "...until all is accomplished", which has happened.
Jesus paid the full price for the complete fulfillment of the law by His death. Do you actually think that there is more that needs to be done? What do you think that He meant when He said "It is finished"? John 19:30 Do you think that it isn't finished? Do you actually think that more needs to be done to establish the New Covenant, purchased with His blood?
What is the New Covenant to you? It is a mixture of the Old Covenant laws and the New Covenant of the Spirit? Really?
Let's have another look at what God's word clearly says...
Romans 8:1-6, "Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. [The Old Covenant] For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace."
And again, Romans 7:4-6 says, "In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code."
Nothing could be clearer than these verse regarding the law!!! We have died to the law. We are discharged from the law. We are dead to that which held us captive. We are not enslaved in the oldness of the written code.
Read post #7!
JESUS IS THE FULFILLMENT OF THE LAW. Nothing more needs to be said.
If anyone is in Christ s/he is a new creation.
2 Corinthians 5:17, "So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away—look, what is new has come!" (This obviously applies to women also.)
What does a new creation mean? The old, sinful person has died! The law no longer applies (unless you think that Christ hasn't fulfilled the law.)
Romans 8:3-4, "For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."
This is Christianity 101! To claim that the law still applies to Christians -- those of us who are in Christ -- means that Jesus' sacrifice was ineffective!
Romans 7:6, ""But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code."
With that I am leaving this discussion -- with sadness. I will pray that God will open the spiritual eyes of those who do not understand the New Covenant, purchased by the very blood of Jesus Christ, to set us free.
If anyone is in Christ s/he is a new creation.
2 Corinthians 5:17, "So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away—look, what is new has come!" (This obviously applies to women also.)
What does a new creation mean? The old, sinful person has died! The law no longer applies (unless you think that Christ hasn't fulfilled the law.)
Romans 8:3-4, "For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."
This is Christianity 101! To claim that the law still applies to Christians -- those of us who are in Christ -- means that Jesus' sacrifice was ineffective!
Romans 7:6, ""But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code."
With that I am leaving this discussion -- with sadness. I will pray that God will open the spiritual eyes of those who do not understand the New Covenant, purchased by the very blood of Jesus Christ, to set us free.
There is a big different between the Temple and ceremonial laws that are no longer kept as Jesus already fulfilled them, but yet we still have the moral laws that I already showed in that post #2 that we are to keep within the greatest commandment of love in how a Christian is suppose to treat others. How can you dismiss Matthew 5:17-20 as all things have not been fulfilled by Christ.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Yes, Jesus is the fulfillment of the law, but yet not all the law has been fulfilled yet as I will repost the moral laws
These are the existing moral laws (commandments) for all of us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood. The poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family. Forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants. Vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures. Injuries and damages, property and property rights, criminal laws. Prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws (commandments) keep us in line with the will of God as we follow His greatest commandment of love in how we treat others.
Mungo
Member
As I pointed out this is not a new covenant but a renewal of the old Sinai covenant. Many of those who had dies were present at the at Sinai were in that covenant. It is not unreasonable to suggest that the renewal acknowledged that by including them in the renewal.
However I have consulted 7 commentaries and do not find support for that theory - nor any support for your theory that all gentiles were included.
Of those 7 commentaries:
3 made no comment specifically on vs 15
1 suggested it included those that were not present because they bwere sick or away on urgent business.#
3 suggested it included future generations, just as the covenant with Abraham (Gen 15:18 & 17:9)
I gave you many scriptures to show you that the Old (Sinai) covenant has been done away with and that Paul did not feel obliged for himself or gentiles to be bound by it.
You have given me nothing but your opinions.
Highway54
Member
Hi Wind, thankfully the Sabbath law was not carried over to the Christian congregation.
Do you really need laws to tell you not to steal, not to kill, not commit adultery, etc?
Law or Christ. Either-or. If you are under the law you have denied Christ.
Without certain laws that came by the hand of God (ten commandments) how would you even know it is wrong to steal, kill and commit adultery?
You are not understanding the difference between the Temple and sacrificial laws that have already been fulfilled by Christ and that of the moral laws we are still to keep by that of the greatest commandment of love. I can't see that we need to discuss this any longer.
Do you really need some written laws to tell you not to steal, not to kill, and not to commit adultery??? If a person is guided by the Holy Spirit and loves their neighbor as themself, they will not steal, they will not kill (murder), and will not commit adultery.
I agree that we don't need to discuss this any longer. You have your legalistic position which, in my opinion, has no basis. However, if you keep pushing legalism I will continue to oppose it.
Sorry, but it's no legalistic, but that of obeying God's commands until Jesus fulfills all the laws as per the scriptures below you might want to ponder.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
1John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Hi TheWind
I'm on post 18, just reading through, and I still am unsure of your truth.
Could you clarify please?
Also, we on this site, do not ban members that are civil in their posts to others.