The 144,000

[Cornelius]

Hello Cornelius,

There is scriptural proof that the 144,000 in Rev 7 and the 144,000 in Rev 14 are one in the same.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

I cannot see that to be true, because the one group is from Israel and the other is from among men.

Here is the group that are not Jewish, but are from the whole earth (Gentiles)

Rev 14:3 and they sing as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four living creatures and the elders: and no man could learn the song save the hundred and forty and four thousand, even they that had been purchased out of the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men(Notice MEN, not Israel), to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.

Here is the second group, which is from Israel:

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them that were sealed, a hundred and forty and four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel:

1) 144000 from the earth, from among men
2) 144000 from every tribe of Israel

Two groups.

C

 

[guysmith]

Cornelius,

Do you not agree that at the sounding of the fifth trumpet plague (Rev 9:1-5) that the only Christians alive at that time will be the 144,000 who have “the seal of God in their foreheads?†And, if you do, then which group of 144,000 are the ones that are going to be alive at the advent of Christ?

In Yehoshua,
Guy

 

[Cornelius]

Cornelius,

Do you not agree that at the sounding of the fifth trumpet plague (Rev 9:1-5) that the only Christians alive at that time will be the 144,000 who have “the seal of God in their foreheads?†And, if you do, then which group of 144,000 are the ones that are going to be alive at the advent of Christ?

In Yehoshua,
Guy

The 144000 from among men (not Israel) are the first fruits or "man child" in Rev 12. They certainly will be alive until the coming of the Lord. But they will not be the only ones alive. Many Christians will make it through the tribulation. It depends if you have truly died to your old nature or not. Have you taken up your cross and followed Jesus, like He asked? If so, then you will not have to physically die during the tribulation.

To have the name of the Lord on your forehead simply means that you have the mind of Christ. Now many Christians, male and female have that. The 144000 first fruits also have the name on their foreheads. In fact, we are told that all who sigh and weep, because the church is in such a mess, have been marked on their foreheads.

Eze 9:4 And Jehovah said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry over all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof.

"Men" are used for mankind and not necessarily for a male.

So to have the Word as your thoughts, means you have the mark on your forehead. You are marked by your walk in the Lord. Your actions, your thoughts, your love, you being like Christ, marks you and the angel of death will pass over you.

C

 

[Cornelius]

Notice that the 144000 from among men (mankind) are the first fruits. This means, that there will be more fruit that will follow. All the fruit has been marked on their foreheads.

Rev 14:4 These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.

 

[Cornelius]

Interesting fact:

144 000

Rev 14:4 These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were purchased from among men, to be the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb.

Isa 14:4 that thou shalt take up this parable against the king of Babylon , and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! (The first fruits rule and conquer)

 

[Godbless]

Could'nt the 144 000 being taken from the earth after calvary? and desend with Christ.
Was'nt the first resurrection at the time of our lord God's human ressurection?
Matt 27;52;53

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. (First ressurection)

John 11;25;26
Jesus said to her, "I am the one who brings people back to life, and I am life itself. Those who believe in me will live even if they die. And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die.

Was'nt HE separated from His Father for three days so we would'nt be separated anymore.

 

[guysmith]

Hello Godbless,

In Revelation 14, we see Christ standing with the 144,000 on Mount Zion. If Christ was to be seen standing with resurrected saints, then there would obviously be more than 144,000 wouldn't you think.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

 

[Sinthesis]

What is the purpose of the 144000? Either of them.

 

[Cornelius]

What is the purpose of the 144000? Either of them.

The 144000 from among men are the "first fruits" Rev 14:4 These are.......... the firstfruits unto God and unto the Lamb. We know that God is coming to pick the fruit from the earth. Well, these are the first fruit that are ready to be picked. The Bible in Rev 12 calls them "the man child" ("man" , because they are the first mature fruit, and "child" because its a small group )

Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruit worthy of repentance: Mat 3:10 And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the evil one, and snatcheth away that which hath been sown in his heart. This is he that was sown by the way side. Mat 13:23 And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The fruit is Christ in you. You bear fruit when you "walk as He walked"1Jn 2:6 he that saith he abideth in him ought himself also to walk even as he walked. It means that if you feed your spirit the Seed (Word of God) that Seed will produce Christ in you and you will bear fruit.That is if you humble yourself to the Word of God and it finds entrance into your heart.

 

[Cornelius]

the 144000 are the first to manifest this Fruit, which is Christ in us the hope of glory. When you read Rev 12, you will see they feed the woman (church) in the wilderness (tribulation) with the Word of God, so that she too can produce the same Fruit.

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that there they (144000/first fruits) may nourish her (church)a thousand two hundred and threescore days. (first three and a half years of the tribulation)

So we are looking at a new , mature leadership that God is raising up in the end times , so that we will not be alone through the tribulation.

 

[Cornelius]

Rev 7 also has a 144000 and they are the remnant that will come back to Jesus in the end times. They are our brothers and sisters that will be saved in the end times, from Israel.

 

[Sinthesis]

I'll just say that I believe the 144K are those Jews who converted to Christianity prior to the judgement of 70AD. The entirety (1000) from all Israel (12 tribes) needed to continue the Work of God (12 apostles). One group who had the mark of the Father (Righteous Judaism) yet learned a New Song (Christianity). Not virgins in the carnal sense, but virgins in that they were not of the whore of babylon; sell outs to the world system by accepting the mark of the beast. Worthy to be the Bride of Christ.

 

[researcher]

I'll just say that I believe the 144K are those Jews who converted to Christianity prior to the judgement of 70AD. The entirety (1000) from all Israel (12 tribes) needed to continue the Work of God (12 apostles). One group who had the mark of the Father (Righteous Judaism) yet learned a New Song (Christianity). Not virgins in the carnal sense, but virgins in that they were not of the whore of babylon; sell outs to the world system by accepting the mark of the beast. Worthy to be the Bride of Christ.

Interesting. I've never heard this interpretation (Righteous Judaism).
More in-line with what I believe today. That the 144 are past.

 

[Sinthesis]

I'll just say that I believe the 144K are those Jews who converted to Christianity prior to the judgement of 70AD. The entirety (1000) from all Israel (12 tribes) needed to continue the Work of God (12 apostles). One group who had the mark of the Father (Righteous Judaism) yet learned a New Song (Christianity). Not virgins in the carnal sense, but virgins in that they were not of the whore of babylon; sell outs to the world system by accepting the mark of the beast. Worthy to be the Bride of Christ.

Interesting. I've never heard this interpretation (Righteous Judaism).
More in-line with what I believe today. That the 144 are past.

Still working on it, but what of the righteous Jew who died the day after Christ was risen? He might not have known of the Risen Savior, but then again, Jesus was himself, after all, a Jew.

 

[researcher]

I'll just say that I believe the 144K are those Jews who converted to Christianity prior to the judgement of 70AD. The entirety (1000) from all Israel (12 tribes) needed to continue the Work of God (12 apostles). One group who had the mark of the Father (Righteous Judaism) yet learned a New Song (Christianity). Not virgins in the carnal sense, but virgins in that they were not of the whore of babylon; sell outs to the world system by accepting the mark of the beast. Worthy to be the Bride of Christ.

Interesting. I've never heard this interpretation (Righteous Judaism).
More in-line with what I believe today. That the 144 are past.

Still working on it, but what of the righteous Jew who died the day after Christ was risen? He might not have known of the Risen Savior, but then again, Jesus was himself, after all, a Jew.

I suppose this guy would have fallen into the "Righteous Judaism" category

Luk 2:25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Spirit was upon him.
Luk 2:26 And it had been revealed unto him by the Holy Spirit, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

 

[Godbless]

Hello Godbless,

In Revelation 14, we see Christ standing with the 144,000 on Mount Zion. If Christ was to be seen standing with resurrected saints, then there would obviously be more than 144,000 wouldn't you think.

In Yehoshua,
Guy Smith

Hi Guy Smith
Obviously there are more saints, but the 144 000 are the holy ones prepared from the twelve tribes of Israel to lead us into the new age under the head of Christ

 

[Sinthesis]

Interesting. I've never heard this interpretation (Righteous Judaism).
More in-line with what I believe today. That the 144 are past.

Still working on it, but what of the righteous Jew who died the day after Christ was risen? He might not have known of the Risen Savior, but then again, Jesus was himself, after all, a Jew.

I suppose this guy would have fallen into the "Righteous Judaism" category

Luk 2:25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Spirit was upon him.
Luk 2:26 And it had been revealed unto him by the Holy Spirit, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

Yes, you have to reason that if the Holy Spirit is God, then he is eternal, which would mean he existed before he was sent to us by Christ; the only way he could also be sent to Simeon.

 

[MMarc]

The 144 000 are the firstfruits of the ingathering, the end time harvest, Jesus said He would send His angels to gather the elect from the four winds (world).

The many saints who rose with Jesus 2000 years ago represent the first fruits of the spring harvest Lev. 23 and it is the sheaves waved before the Lord, on the feast of firstfruits, the day of the resurrection of Jesus...

The wave offering (of barley) is done on the third hour of the morning like the wave offering of the wheat harvest when they received the Holy Spirit on the third hour.

So for me the 144 000 are the resurrected saints that resurrect with Jesus at His return, the firstfruits of the Ingathering, Jesus would send the angels to ''gather'' them. Jesus will resurrect the wheat and the Barley after two days so that we may live in His sight....

The 7 appointed times of God teach everything about the plan of redemption then and now...

Those who died in Christ for the last 6000 years (barley and wheat) are the elect sealed by the Lord.

Paul said: the saints are sealed till the day of redemption...

 

[shad]

The 144 000 are the firstfruits of the ingathering, the end time harvest, Jesus said He would send His angels to gather the elect from the four winds (world).

And they will reign on the earth with Jesus for 1000 years. They are the most faithful, godly and blessed ones. They finished the race until the end faithfully.

 

[Osgiliath]

Hi Cornelius,

I believe you are confusing the numberless multitude that follows the 144,000 (firstfruits) with a second group of 144,000. As far as firstfruits, a person was to search through his field and select the best of the best, that matured first and present them to the high priest at the temple. The 144,000 are called firstfruits because they are the finest, and first to mature of the rest of the crop that follows. If wheat was presented as a firstfruits offering, the harvest that followed would also be wheat. The 144,000 and the numberless multitude that come after them will be the same 'crop'.

Also, Revelation 14 says that they are "not defiled with women" (i.e. do NOT go off track). Not defiled by women is simply an analogy that means they are "faithful" to Jesus Christ, and follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth. The 144,000 are called firstfruits in Revelation 14:4 because they are the first to be sealed; after which a great harvest, a numberless multitude (the rest of the same crop that matures later) will follow them and will be sealed during the Great Tribulation.

I also believe you are overlooking the big picture regarding the crucial purpose of the 144,000.

Exodus 19:4-6
"You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. . . ."

Priests were those who God called to stand between God and man (Hebrews 5:1). Who was God's chosen kingdom of Priests that were to show (by example) the rest of the world the ways of God? Historically, it was supposed to be the 12 tribes of Israel; but they failed, and Israel was taken into captivity. Later, Paul summarized God's original purpose for the twelve tribes when he said:

Acts 13:47
"For this is what the Lord has commanded us: 'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the Earth."

The 144,000 are VERY significant, that is why God chooses 12,000 from each tribe. Originally, God's plan for Israel failed. However, in the end, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes will be those chosen to accomplish God's purpose and plan....."you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. . . ."

The overall plan and purpose outlined in the Scriptures does not support a second group of 144,000, and the fact that one verse uses 'men' rather than 'Israel' is not sufficient evidence to make that assumption when analyzing the whole.