The abomination of desolation

[Joe67]

Mat 24:15 “So when you see the ‘abomination that lays waste,' spoken of by Dani’ĕl the prophet, set up in the set-apart place†– he who reads, let him understand -

Mat 24:16 “then let those who are in Yehuá¸Âah flee to the mountains.


Luk 21:20 “And when you see Yerushalayim surrounded by armies, then know that its laying waste is near.

Luk 21:21 “Then let those in Yehuá¸Âah flee to the mountains, and let those who are in the midst of her go out, and let not those who are in the fields enter her.

Luk 21:22 “Because these are days of vengeance, to fill all that have been written.

Sneekee,

The only mountain to which all can flee is Mt.Zion which is above, the free woman, the mother of us all. It is on the sides of the north, the right hand, and is the new Jerusalem.
Heb 12:22-24
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel. NAS

Joe

 

[Sinthesis]

Mat 24:15 “So when you see the ‘abomination that lays waste,' spoken of by Dani’ĕl the prophet, set up in the set-apart place†– he who reads, let him understand -

Mat 24:16 “then let those who are in Yehuá¸Âah flee to the mountains.


Luk 21:20 “And when you see Yerushalayim surrounded by armies, then know that its laying waste is near.

Luk 21:21 “Then let those in Yehuá¸Âah flee to the mountains, and let those who are in the midst of her go out, and let not those who are in the fields enter her.

Luk 21:22 “Because these are days of vengeance, to fill all that have been written.

Sneekee,

The only mountain to which all can flee is Mt.Zion which is above, the free woman, the mother of us all. It is on the sides of the north, the right hand, and is the new Jerusalem.
Heb 12:22-24
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the first-born who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel. NAS

Joe

It doesn't say all should flee to the mountains, only those in Judaea. Should only those in Judaea flee to Mt.Zion?

 

[MMarc]

I see he is saluting Satan in that pic.

[youtube:8vokqgdm]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xwyH0xb9r0[/youtube:8vokqgdm]

Misfit, you mean the same sign that is on your avatar?

 

[Matthew24:34]

Greetings to all. I am new here, so I hope you don't mind my adding my two-cents' worth!

If we consider the context and the audience relevance of Matthew 24, we see that Jesus is addressing His first-century disciples--the very ones who questioned Him about His coming and the end of the age. At least twenty times Jesus says "you." We are not the Ye!

Jesus, in the very presence of His first-century disciples, said "When YOU see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet . . . " (Mat. 24:15). According to Josephus, an eyetwitness of the events of the Jewish Wars with Rome and the destruction of Jerusalem, all Christians (remembering Jesus' words) fled Jerusalem when they saw the city about to be surrounded by the Roman armies! It was those very disciples of Jesus' day who were to see Daniel's abomination of desolation!

Sincerely, Matthew24:34

 

[Joe67]

Mathew,

The prophecy of our Lord to his body, his church, his family of priests, has not been totally fulfilled. When the Spirit of prophecy, the testimony of Jesus, speaks; it speaks in regard to the entire purpose of God that he purposed in Christ Jesus before the world began.

Matt 24:3

3 And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what (shall be) the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? ASV

Matt 24:33-35
33 even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, (even) at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. ASV

Joe

 

[Matthew24:34]

Mathew,

The prophecy of our Lord to his body, his church, his family of priests, has not been totally fulfilled. When the Spirit of prophecy, the testimony of Jesus, speaks; it speaks in regard to the entire purpose of God that he purposed in Christ Jesus before the world began.

Matt 24:3

3 And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what (shall be) the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? ASV

Matt 24:33-35
33 even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, (even) at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. ASV

Joe

Greetings, Joe67: Actually, verse 3 says the "end of the AGE" and not the end of the world. That is a big difference.

Also, verses 33-35 are addressed directly to Jesus' disciples right there with Him. Again, WE are not the YE! His disciples there with Him were to recognize the signs of His coming as easily as THEY recognized the signs of the coming of summer. THEY were to know, when THEY saw the signs, that He was near--at the doors! That very generation would not pass away until ALL the things of which Jesus spoke were fulfilled. Every time, without exception, that Jesus used the expression "this generation" He always meant His contemporaries (20 times). Always!

The personal pronoun "you" occurs at least 20 times in Matthew 24. Jesus is addressing those disciples with Him and warning those disciples with Him what is going to happen to them in that very generation. Jesus told THEM that THEY would see the abomination of desolation. Luke describes it as the surrounding of Jerusalem by the armies (Luke 21)--that occurred in A. D. 70! The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet is far behind us.

Preterist

 

[Osgiliath]

I have never understood the preterist view because the basic fundamental premise defies common sense. If the preterist view is to be believed, it would leave the New Testament Christian (in our post-70 AD era) without a canon . If all prophecy was fulfilled prior to 70 AD, and if the entire New Testament is speaking about issues and events that concern the pre-70 AD time frame, Christians do not have any relevant Scripture. The entire New Testament must be transposed before it can be relevant, and is basically useless apart from the moral instruction. As Spock would say; "That is not logical". I do not wish to debate about this (because I believe the view is too nonsensical to even bother with), but just thought I'd mention this. :gah

 

[Joe67]

The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet is far behind us.

Preterist

Matthew,

This is comforting to my flesh but does not cleanse from the filthiness of the flesh and spirit. The voice of Jesus speaking today through his blood from the new Jerusalem that is above is the work of God to forgive and cleanse and restore.

The abomination of desolation is present with us in our flesh. Its presence makes the body vile. Who shall deliver us from this body of death?

2 Cor 1:10
10 who delivered us from so great a death, and does deliver us; in whom we trust that He will still deliver us, NKJV

The truth of our God and Savior is the truth of: was, is, and is to come.

It has been fulfilled makes us children. It is being fulfilled makes us young men. It will yet be fulfilled makes us fathers to others.

A three-fold chord is not soon broken. The three-fold principle is true of all God's promises in Jesus Christ.

Joe

 

[Matthew24:34]

The abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet is far behind us.

Preterist

Matthew,

This is comforting to my flesh but does not cleanse from the filthiness of the flesh and spirit. The voice of Jesus speaking today through his blood from the new Jerusalem that is above is the work of God to forgive and cleanse and restore.

The abomination of desolation is present with us in our flesh. Its presence makes the body vile. Who shall deliver us from this body of death?

2 Cor 1:10
10 who delivered us from so great a death, and does deliver us; in whom we trust that He will still deliver us, NKJV

The truth of our God and Savior is the truth of: was, is, and is to come.

It has been fulfilled makes us children. It is being fulfilled makes us young men. It will yet be fulfilled makes us fathers to others.

A three-fold chord is not soon broken. The three-fold principle is true of all God's promises in Jesus Christ.

Joe

Greetings Joe: I am confused. What did Jesus tell His disciples that they themselves would see (Mat. 24:15)? What did Daniel mean by the expression "abomination of desolation?" Are you saying that it is a spiritual thing common to all believers?

Matthew24:34

 

[Joe67]

Greetings Joe: I am confused. What did Jesus tell His disciples that they themselves would see (Mat. 24:15)? What did Daniel mean by the expression "abomination of desolation?" Are you saying that it is a spiritual thing common to all believers?

Matthew24:34

Matthew,

You asked three questions. I will address the last one in this post.

All qualities of transgression, sin and iniquity is found in the heart and mind of all believers. These are layers of that which is contrary to the sacrifice of God. God does not count these against us in our ignorance. Yes, the abomination that makes desolate is an experience that occurs in the inward parts of believers and thereby God brings their repentance to the full.

This occurs when we delight in the law of God and we are purposed to do good. This is not open transgression against our conscious knowledge. This is not the yielding of our members as instruments of unrighteousness. This is an evil that is manifested only to those who take the name of the Lord Jesus. When Moses was commanded to tell the people they were stiff-necked and stubborn, he knew it was true because God shewed Moses that these qualities existed in his own flesh. When Korah, Dathan and Abiram rebelled against the Lord's work through Aaron, Moses fell on his face (repented) before that Lord because he could see this same stiff-necked spirit in his own flesh.

Thus the admonition.
Gal 6:1-3
6:1 Brethren, even if a man be overtaken in any trespass, ye who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; looking to thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
3 For if a man thinketh himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. ASV

Your brother in the Lord Jesus,
Joe

 

[Matthew24:34]

Greetings Joe: I am confused. What did Jesus tell His disciples that they themselves would see (Mat. 24:15)? What did Daniel mean by the expression "abomination of desolation?" Are you saying that it is a spiritual thing common to all believers?

Matthew24:34

Matthew,

You asked three questions. I will address the last one in this post.

All qualities of transgression, sin and iniquity is found in the heart and mind of all believers. These are layers of that which is contrary to the sacrifice of God. God does not count these against us in our ignorance. Yes, the abomination that makes desolate is an experience that occurs in the inward parts of believers and thereby God brings their repentance to the full.

This occurs when we delight in the law of God and we are purposed to do good. This is not open transgression against our conscious knowledge. This is not the yielding of our members as instruments of unrighteousness. This is an evil that is manifested only to those who take the name of the Lord Jesus. When Moses was commanded to tell the people they were stiff-necked and stubborn, he knew it was true because God shewed Moses that these qualities existed in his own flesh. When Korah, Dathan and Abiram rebelled against the Lord's work through Aaron, Moses fell on his face (repented) before that Lord because he could see this same stiff-necked spirit in his own flesh.

Thus the admonition.
Gal 6:1-3
6:1 Brethren, even if a man be overtaken in any trespass, ye who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; looking to thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
3 For if a man thinketh himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. ASV

Your brother in the Lord Jesus,
Joe

Joe: I couldn't disagree with you more. The abomination of desolation was something those very disciples with Jesus were to SEE. It was an actual event that would occur in their lifetimes. It is not a spiritual thing common to all believers. Why do you spiritualize it?

Blessings, Matthew24:34

 

[Joe67]

Joe: I couldn't disagree with you more. The abomination of desolation was something those very disciples with Jesus were to SEE. It was an actual event that would occur in their lifetimes. It is not a spiritual thing common to all believers. Why do you spiritualize it?

Blessings, Matthew24:34

Matthew,

The kingdom of heaven and the mystery of iniquity are within us.

The kingdom of heaven is in our hearts and minds according to God's promise to write his law(s) in our inward parts.

The mystery of iniquity is in our flesh, our natural desires and reasoning, which is always warring against the kingdom of heaven, the spirit of Jesus.

When we see the warfare within our being, then we will recognize its true nature in the people and events around us.

John 2:24-3:1
24 But Jesus did not trust himself unto them, for that he knew all men,
25 and because he needed not that any one should bear witness concerning man; for he himself knew what was in man. ASV

Joe

 

[Matthew24:34]

Joe: I couldn't disagree with you more. The abomination of desolation was something those very disciples with Jesus were to SEE. It was an actual event that would occur in their lifetimes. It is not a spiritual thing common to all believers. Why do you spiritualize it?

Blessings, Matthew24:34

Matthew,

The kingdom of heaven and the mystery of iniquity are within us.

The kingdom of heaven is in our hearts and minds according to God's promise to write his law(s) in our inward parts.

The mystery of iniquity is in our flesh, our natural desires and reasoning, which is always warring against the kingdom of heaven, the spirit of Jesus.

When we see the warfare within our being, then we will recognize its true nature in the people and events around us.

John 2:24-3:1
24 But Jesus did not trust himself unto them, for that he knew all men,
25 and because he needed not that any one should bear witness concerning man; for he himself knew what was in man. ASV

Joe

Joe, that is not the meaning of Matthew 24:15 and Luke 21:20. When those very disciples of Jesus, standing right there with Him, saw the abomination of desolation, they were to flee from Judea to the mountains--actual mountains. According to Josephus, that is exactly what Christians did. Not one Christian remained in the city when the Jews were locked in by the Roman armies! Luke further describes this actual, physical event as the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies. Its desolation would then be near--A. D. 70! This has nothing to do with spiritual warfare within.

Blessings, Matthew24:34

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Dan 11;33
And they that understand among the people shall instruct many;yet they shall fall by the sword,and by flame,by captivity,and by spoil many days.

Rev 14;13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me,Write,Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth;Yea saith the Spirit,that they may rest from thier labors;and thier works do follow them.

 

[Joe67]

Dan 11;33
And they that understand among the people shall instruct many;yet they shall fall by the sword,and by flame,by captivity,and by spoil many days.

Rev 14;13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me,Write,Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth;Yea saith the Spirit,that they may rest from thier labors;and thier works do follow them.

Amen and Amen.

I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ.

For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

I die daily.

When the daily sacrifice is taken away, then the doctrine of the man of sin will come in and sit in the place that belongs to Jesus Christ in the temple of our hearts and minds. The doctrine of the man of sin denies the need for this daily death. He denies that in our flesh dwells no good thing, warring against the law of our mind. The doctrine of daily death is considered barbaric. The man of sin teaches that all we need is love and that man is good and just needs to develop the good. Many will follow this teaching without the cross of Christ Jesus. He will come in the name of Jesus. Isaiah 4:1; without bread of adversity and the covering of the incense of humiliation.

This Abomination is even now coming into the higher educational processes and is spreading across the land like frogs, catching its prey with its tongue. There are three different presentations of this Abomination and they all go out to war against him who sits on the horse and against his army. This war goes on first in the personal experience of each believer as testified to through Paul in Romans chapter 7. This is a daily experience because of our vile bodies. Praise God through Jesus Christ our vile bodies will be changed at his appearing and even now, daily we have the victory in Jesus Christ (Romans 7:25; 8:1,2) over the 4th beast of Daniel 7 and the other three beasts dominion is taken away, though their lives have been prolonged to discipline us. John wrote in 1 John 2 to the young men because they were strong and had overcome the wicked one.

This warfare only occurs to those who have already known the Father in the free forgiveness of their sins through the blood of Jesus Christ. Romans 4:25; 5:1. 1 John 2:12; 1:7.

Mal 2:11
11 Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of Jehovah which he loveth, and hath married the daughter of a foreign god. ASV

John 2:21
21 But he spake of the temple of his body. ASV

1 Cor 3:16-17
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. KJV

Let us not abandon the whole burnt offering and marry the doctrine of a strange god who thinks that all you need is love. Now abides faith, hope and love. Love is the fulfillment, maturity, greatest, father, but it is the fruit of the spirit of sacrifice and patience in well-doing, hoping for the promise of God to be fulfilled by sight.

Faith is in the sacrifice of God's Son , hope is in the Son's resurrection from the dead because the love of God is shed abroad into the 4 corners of our hearts and minds. Romans 5:5; 8:32.

Joe

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Dan 11;33
And they that understand among the people shall instruct many;yet they shall fall by the sword,and by flame,by captivity,and by spoil many days.

Rev 14;13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me,Write,Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth;Yea saith the Spirit,that they may rest from thier labors;and thier works do follow them.

Amen and Amen.

I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ.

For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

I die daily.


Joe

Joe.These are saints being killed in the verses I quoted.
Took me a while to learn who those saints are but I first had to learn the world didnt revolve around myself.Not everything in the scriptures is about me,me.

 

[Joe67]

Christ is all and in all. The body of Christ is the fullness of him who fills all in all.

Joe

 

[Matureartisan]

When Khalifah Omar entered Jerusalem in 639 AD; he was greeted by the bishop of the Jerusalem Church. Bishop Sophronius escorted Khalifah Omar through the city and showed him the temple mount which was in rubble.

Omar declared to Bishop Sophronius that he was going to build a memorial to Muhammad on what he believed to be the original site of the temple of God.

Bishop Sophronius exclaimed in horror: "Verily, this is the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, and it now stands in the holy place." (Daniel 9:27)

Although Sophronius was an elderly man of about 80 years of age; Khalifah Omar imprisoned Sophronius and forced him to perform strenuous manual labor the rigors of which killed him.

A correct understanding of the biblical day=year principal has proven Bishop Sophronius' utterance to be prophetic and true.

The account is found in Ellis Skolfield's book Sozo, Survival Guide for a Remnant Church (Fish House Publishing, Fort Meyers, Florida, 1995)

The account is also found in Jerry Landay's book, The Dome of the Rock (Newsweek, New York. NY. 1972) p.18

The account is also found in M. Ali's book Islam Reviewed (Fish House Publishing, Fort Meyers, Florida, 1999) p.77

Maranatha
Matureartisan

 

[Matthew24:34]

When Khalifah Omar entered Jerusalem in 639 AD; he was greeted by the bishop of the Jerusalem Church. Bishop Sophronius escorted Khalifah Omar through the city and showed him the temple mount which was in rubble.

Omar declared to Bishop Sophronius that he was going to build a memorial to Muhammad on what he believed to be the original site of the temple of God.

Bishop Sophronius exclaimed in horror: "Verily, this is the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, and it now stands in the holy place." (Daniel 9:27)

Although Sophronius was an elderly man of about 80 years of age; Khalifah Omar imprisoned Sophronius and forced him to perform strenuous manual labor the rigors of which killed him.

A correct understanding of the biblical day=year principal has proven Bishop Sophronius' utterance to be prophetic and true.

The account is found in Ellis Skolfield's book Sozo, Survival Guide for a Remnant Church (Fish House Publishing, Fort Meyers, Florida, 1995)

The account is also found in Jerry Landay's book, The Dome of the Rock (Newsweek, New York. NY. 1972) p.18

The account is also found in M. Ali's book Islam Reviewed (Fish House Publishing, Fort Meyers, Florida, 1999) p.77

Maranatha
Matureartisan

Just how did Jesus' disciples who were right there with Him when He gave the Olivet Discourse see this?
Jesus said to those very disciples right there with Him--"When YOU see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet . . . " (Mat. 24:15)."

Matthew24:34

 

[Matureartisan]

I most cordially invite you to watch the following videos created by Ellis Skolfield. I am certain you will find the following videos challenging, stimulating, informative, and accurate. The video concerning "The Abomination of Desolation" is in three parts.

3a The Abomination of Desolation - Skolfield studies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxzx_PfxqIw

3b Abonination of Desolation - Skolfield study
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAFP4VLd5Ig&feature=channel_page

The Abomination of Desolation - Skolfield study 3c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59IN4ZTWuo8&NR=1

I am also including the link to a free PDF file which was created by Mr. Skolfield.
http://www.fishhouseministries.com/pdf/TFPChapters1-9pg39-46.pdf

Maranatha
Matureartisan