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SputnikBoy
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jgredline said:
Same thing, with or without the plural ...I've never heard of him.
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The apostate church QUIZ ADDED 11 7 06
- Thread starter jgredline
- Start date
Same thing, with or without the plural ...I've never heard of him.
jgredline
Member
reply
I believe we have to look at the church of Laodicea to see what an Apostate Church is. We see in verse 17 of Revelation that Jesus portrays a Church that is Wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked. This is the portrait of the spiritual condition of a person who is without God. People who know God aren't blind in the spirit; they're not unclothed, they're the righteousness of God in Christ.
So this Laodicean churchh has come to the dead spiritual condition that Jesus warned the other churches about, and He's writing this letter to them to help them recover from that condition.
He tells them, I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thiine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see ( v. 18).
All these benefits are the result of being born again and being filled with the Holy Spirit; these are the benefits we enjoy from the new birth ( or regeneration of the Holy Spirit) and the baptism in the Holy Spirit ( or the fulness of the Holy Spirit).
Bottom line, this church has not born again members. Does anyone know of churches like this today?
May God bless, golfjack
I believe we have to look at the church of Laodicea to see what an Apostate Church is. We see in verse 17 of Revelation that Jesus portrays a Church that is Wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked. This is the portrait of the spiritual condition of a person who is without God. People who know God aren't blind in the spirit; they're not unclothed, they're the righteousness of God in Christ.
So this Laodicean churchh has come to the dead spiritual condition that Jesus warned the other churches about, and He's writing this letter to them to help them recover from that condition.
He tells them, I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thiine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see ( v. 18).
All these benefits are the result of being born again and being filled with the Holy Spirit; these are the benefits we enjoy from the new birth ( or regeneration of the Holy Spirit) and the baptism in the Holy Spirit ( or the fulness of the Holy Spirit).
Bottom line, this church has not born again members. Does anyone know of churches like this today?
May God bless, golfjack
U
unred typo
Guest
Golfjack, don’t you mean, churches whose members claim to be born again? Did you notice that in the sheep and goats parable, the goats thought they were when they weren’t and the sheep were those who didn’t even know they were. Interesting. :-?
reply
Unred, As in all the letters written to the churches, they convey a Church, Body of Christ. As to your question let me say this: I myself cannot determine if one is born again, but I can examine myself to see if I answered the great call of God for salvation. I know I am saved if the Holy Spirits confirms this to my spirit.
A church that doesn't preach the cross, preaches religion, ordains gay ministers, and other Godly things to me is a type of Apostate Church. I could go down the list of Denominations that I believe are Apostate, but I really think one can determine that for himself. People in these Churches can leave, and the Bible says from such turn away. I imagine there are some that are not born again in every denomination. We need to make a dicesion to accept Christ or reject Christ.
May God bless, golfjack
Unred, As in all the letters written to the churches, they convey a Church, Body of Christ. As to your question let me say this: I myself cannot determine if one is born again, but I can examine myself to see if I answered the great call of God for salvation. I know I am saved if the Holy Spirits confirms this to my spirit.
A church that doesn't preach the cross, preaches religion, ordains gay ministers, and other Godly things to me is a type of Apostate Church. I could go down the list of Denominations that I believe are Apostate, but I really think one can determine that for himself. People in these Churches can leave, and the Bible says from such turn away. I imagine there are some that are not born again in every denomination. We need to make a dicesion to accept Christ or reject Christ.
May God bless, golfjack
jgredline
Member
Well, Lets take a look at what the bible has to say about riches.
This is by no means a complete list, but something I put together using the little concordance in the back of my bible.
Job 31:24-28
24 “If I have made gold my hope,
Or said to fine gold, ‘You are my confidence’;
25 If I have rejoiced because my wealth was great,
And because my hand had gained much;
26 If I have observed the sun when it shines,
Or the moon moving in brightness,
27 So that my heart has been secretly enticed,
And my mouth has kissed my hand;
28 This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgment,
For I would have denied God who is above.
I wonder how many people would dare pray This?
.
1 Timothy 6:17
17 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy.
Ecclesiastes 5:10
10 He who loves silver will not be satisfied with silver;
Nor he who loves abundance, with increase.
This also is vanity
When one Rolls is not enough, buy 6, When your lear jet is to small, buy a bigger one.
1 Timothy 6:10
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Sow a seed, sow a seed, sow a seed, I need another $6000.00 suit
2 Timothy 3:1-2
3 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
''Don't touch me, I don't want to loose the annointing''
Luke 12:15-21
15 And He said to them, “Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one’s life does not consist in the abundance of the things he possesses.â€Â
16 Then He spoke a parable to them, saying: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded plentifully. 17 And he thought within himself, saying, ‘What shall I do, since I have no room to store my crops?’ 18 So he said, ‘I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build greater, and there I will store all my crops and my goods. 19 And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take your ease; eat, drink, and be merry.†’ 20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?’
21 “So is he who lays up treasure for himself, tand is not rich toward God.â€Â
lets see. I need a $90,000 table, a 17,000,000.00 million dollar addition to the sanctuary, so I can fit more tithers in there and then I can get all of my daughters and there new husbands their own house and still have the church pay for it. Oh, those orphans, well, they don;t know what they are missing.
Oh boy. That 42'' LCD HD tv sounds good. I think I will get 1 ---------for everyroom of the house. Wiat. That means I better make it an 18,000.000.00 dollar addition so I can fit more seeds. Yea that it. This way I can fit more sheep and hire more barbers :-?
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Hey, I know. I could have a Rolex made in the shape of a heart, Na, that is not practicle. Wait. If I have one made for everyday of the week, that would be cool. 8-)
Matthew 6:24
24 w“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
In all seriousness, this verse says it all.
The impossibility of living for God and for money is stated here in terms of masters and slaves. No one can serve two masters. One will inevitably take precedence in his loyalty and obedience. So it is with God and mammon. They present rival claims and a choice must be made. Either we must put God first and reject the rule of materialism or we must live for temporal things and refuse God’s claim on our lives. One of the favorite sayings from this WOLF preachers is that Jesus was Rich, I have searched the scriptures and atleast the Jesus I know did not even have a place to lay his head.
Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Jesus was saying, in effect, “Do you know what it really means to follow me? It means the forsaking of the comforts and conveniences of life. I do not have a home to call my own. This earth affords no rest to me. Foxes and birds have more in the way of natural comfort and security than I. Are you willing to follow Me, even if it means forsaking those things which most men consider to be their inalienable rights?†When we read the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head we are apt to pity Him. “He does not need your pity. Pity yourself rather if you have a home that holds you back when Christ wants you out upon the high places of the world.â€Â
We hear no more of the man, and can only assume that he was unwilling to give up the common comforts of life to follow the Son of God.
Somehow I don't believe that anyone of those those Wolf preachers would be willing to give away thier jets, boats, homes, suits, caviar, etc. because in their mind God wants them to be rich so they can bring the Gospel to all the world. The problem I see is that they are bringing ''A'' Gospel, but its of another Jesus. You know the Rich wealthy one, The one who had a fleet of Horses. One for everyday of the week.
Please give me a break. I was not born yetsrday.
This is by no means a complete list, but something I put together using the little concordance in the back of my bible.
Job 31:24-28
24 “If I have made gold my hope,
Or said to fine gold, ‘You are my confidence’;
25 If I have rejoiced because my wealth was great,
And because my hand had gained much;
26 If I have observed the sun when it shines,
Or the moon moving in brightness,
27 So that my heart has been secretly enticed,
And my mouth has kissed my hand;
28 This also would be an iniquity deserving of judgment,
For I would have denied God who is above.
I wonder how many people would dare pray This?
.
1 Timothy 6:17
17 Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy.
Ecclesiastes 5:10
10 He who loves silver will not be satisfied with silver;
Nor he who loves abundance, with increase.
This also is vanity
When one Rolls is not enough, buy 6, When your lear jet is to small, buy a bigger one.
1 Timothy 6:10
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Sow a seed, sow a seed, sow a seed, I need another $6000.00 suit
2 Timothy 3:1-2
3 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
''Don't touch me, I don't want to loose the annointing''
Luke 12:15-21
15 And He said to them, “Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one’s life does not consist in the abundance of the things he possesses.â€Â
16 Then He spoke a parable to them, saying: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded plentifully. 17 And he thought within himself, saying, ‘What shall I do, since I have no room to store my crops?’ 18 So he said, ‘I will do this: I will pull down my barns and build greater, and there I will store all my crops and my goods. 19 And I will say to my soul, “Soul, you have many goods laid up for many years; take your ease; eat, drink, and be merry.†’ 20 But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?’
21 “So is he who lays up treasure for himself, tand is not rich toward God.â€Â
lets see. I need a $90,000 table, a 17,000,000.00 million dollar addition to the sanctuary, so I can fit more tithers in there and then I can get all of my daughters and there new husbands their own house and still have the church pay for it. Oh, those orphans, well, they don;t know what they are missing.
Oh boy. That 42'' LCD HD tv sounds good. I think I will get 1 ---------for everyroom of the house. Wiat. That means I better make it an 18,000.000.00 dollar addition so I can fit more seeds. Yea that it. This way I can fit more sheep and hire more barbers :-?
19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Hey, I know. I could have a Rolex made in the shape of a heart, Na, that is not practicle. Wait. If I have one made for everyday of the week, that would be cool. 8-)
Matthew 6:24
24 w“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
In all seriousness, this verse says it all.
The impossibility of living for God and for money is stated here in terms of masters and slaves. No one can serve two masters. One will inevitably take precedence in his loyalty and obedience. So it is with God and mammon. They present rival claims and a choice must be made. Either we must put God first and reject the rule of materialism or we must live for temporal things and refuse God’s claim on our lives. One of the favorite sayings from this WOLF preachers is that Jesus was Rich, I have searched the scriptures and atleast the Jesus I know did not even have a place to lay his head.
Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Jesus was saying, in effect, “Do you know what it really means to follow me? It means the forsaking of the comforts and conveniences of life. I do not have a home to call my own. This earth affords no rest to me. Foxes and birds have more in the way of natural comfort and security than I. Are you willing to follow Me, even if it means forsaking those things which most men consider to be their inalienable rights?†When we read the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head we are apt to pity Him. “He does not need your pity. Pity yourself rather if you have a home that holds you back when Christ wants you out upon the high places of the world.â€Â
We hear no more of the man, and can only assume that he was unwilling to give up the common comforts of life to follow the Son of God.
Somehow I don't believe that anyone of those those Wolf preachers would be willing to give away thier jets, boats, homes, suits, caviar, etc. because in their mind God wants them to be rich so they can bring the Gospel to all the world. The problem I see is that they are bringing ''A'' Gospel, but its of another Jesus. You know the Rich wealthy one, The one who had a fleet of Horses. One for everyday of the week.
Please give me a break. I was not born yetsrday.
reply
Jg. What do you think you are accomplishing here? You anger, hatred, resentment, bias to fellow believers really shines through you. Who made you judge, jury, and executioner? You ought to be ashamed of yourself and should repent. Oh no, I am a Reformed Christian like John McArthur, whose thelogy if one can understand his fancy words and intellectualism, falls flat on its face. Jg. You really surprise me.
May God bless, golfjack
Jg. What do you think you are accomplishing here? You anger, hatred, resentment, bias to fellow believers really shines through you. Who made you judge, jury, and executioner? You ought to be ashamed of yourself and should repent. Oh no, I am a Reformed Christian like John McArthur, whose thelogy if one can understand his fancy words and intellectualism, falls flat on its face. Jg. You really surprise me.
May God bless, golfjack
jgredline
Member
Re: reply
Now if anybody is baring false witness here it would be you.
Show me where I have ever said I was a reformed Christian like John McArthur?
Now I have never said that, but if you would like to compare me to him, then thats cool as I have a bunch of respect for him. I am also pround of the fact that some of my education came from Masters College.
I have also stated that I am not a Calvinist or an Armenianst. I believe both doctrines have their problems and so I am more in the middle. I would say My theology is more like Calvary Chapel. Which by the way I also studied there as well and still am. Calvary Chapel Bible College..
Now since God is a God of Providence (oh, wait thats calvinistic theology) perhaps this is not a mistake that this debate came out.
Tell Me jack. Help me understand how you can justify the WOF theology and teaching. Show me with the scriptures, not with opinion. I gave you only a few verses out of the back of my bible.
Matthew 6:24
24 w“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
In all seriousness, this verse says it all.
The impossibility of living for God and for money is stated here in terms of masters and slaves. No one can serve two masters. One will inevitably take precedence in his loyalty and obedience. So it is with God and mammon. They present rival claims and a choice must be made. Either we must put God first and reject the rule of materialism or we must live for temporal things and refuse God’s claim on our lives. One of the favorite sayings from this WOF preachers is that Jesus was Rich, I have searched the scriptures and atleast the Jesus I know did not even have a place to lay his head.
Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
golfjack said:
Now if anybody is baring false witness here it would be you.
Show me where I have ever said I was a reformed Christian like John McArthur?
Now I have never said that, but if you would like to compare me to him, then thats cool as I have a bunch of respect for him. I am also pround of the fact that some of my education came from Masters College.
I have also stated that I am not a Calvinist or an Armenianst. I believe both doctrines have their problems and so I am more in the middle. I would say My theology is more like Calvary Chapel. Which by the way I also studied there as well and still am. Calvary Chapel Bible College..
Now since God is a God of Providence (oh, wait thats calvinistic theology) perhaps this is not a mistake that this debate came out.
Tell Me jack. Help me understand how you can justify the WOF theology and teaching. Show me with the scriptures, not with opinion. I gave you only a few verses out of the back of my bible.
Matthew 6:24
24 w“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
In all seriousness, this verse says it all.
The impossibility of living for God and for money is stated here in terms of masters and slaves. No one can serve two masters. One will inevitably take precedence in his loyalty and obedience. So it is with God and mammon. They present rival claims and a choice must be made. Either we must put God first and reject the rule of materialism or we must live for temporal things and refuse God’s claim on our lives. One of the favorite sayings from this WOF preachers is that Jesus was Rich, I have searched the scriptures and atleast the Jesus I know did not even have a place to lay his head.
Luke 9:58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
reply
Jg. I know what the Scriptures say about serving God and not money, but it is the love of money which is the root of all evil. Therefore, if one has millions of dollars and if God wants him to have as many valuable cars as God will give him and he gives God all the credit, who can judge that? The simple answer is to allow God to judge. You are making yourself a type of judge here on earth with all this ranting and raving, which to me is disgusting. I drive a Lexus. Judge that my friend. I use to have a home in Illinois worth about 400,000 dollars. Judge that my friend. Of course, if God told me to give all of that up, then I would. But I believe He wants us to prosper. Do you know how much money people like Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joyce Myers, Joel Osteen have given to help build up the Kingdom by giving millions to the cause of helping the poor, and feeding the hungry. Check it out once. Joel Osteen, who has about a 27,000 member church, only takes 180,000 dollars as salary. God does bless us all with prosperity, but it is up to us to get into the Word, and start declaring it. You see, when one uses Mark 11:23-24 and opeates in faith by speaking things into existence, then God can operate in His Word. What part of that, don't you get?
I am sorry I associated with John McArthur. But I noticed in another thread, that you said a believer hasd an imputed sin nature. If that is what you said, you should check your thelogy about the New Birth.
May God bless, golfjack
Jg. I know what the Scriptures say about serving God and not money, but it is the love of money which is the root of all evil. Therefore, if one has millions of dollars and if God wants him to have as many valuable cars as God will give him and he gives God all the credit, who can judge that? The simple answer is to allow God to judge. You are making yourself a type of judge here on earth with all this ranting and raving, which to me is disgusting. I drive a Lexus. Judge that my friend. I use to have a home in Illinois worth about 400,000 dollars. Judge that my friend. Of course, if God told me to give all of that up, then I would. But I believe He wants us to prosper. Do you know how much money people like Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joyce Myers, Joel Osteen have given to help build up the Kingdom by giving millions to the cause of helping the poor, and feeding the hungry. Check it out once. Joel Osteen, who has about a 27,000 member church, only takes 180,000 dollars as salary. God does bless us all with prosperity, but it is up to us to get into the Word, and start declaring it. You see, when one uses Mark 11:23-24 and opeates in faith by speaking things into existence, then God can operate in His Word. What part of that, don't you get?
I am sorry I associated with John McArthur. But I noticed in another thread, that you said a believer hasd an imputed sin nature. If that is what you said, you should check your thelogy about the New Birth.
May God bless, golfjack
Gabbylittleangel
Member
jgredline
It appears to me that the verses that you have quoted all speak of the love of money, putting money before God, making money the goal, putting trust in money instead of God, etc.
The 'prosperity' preaching, as it has been called, does not do that. The problem is that most people who are against it have somehow missed the fact that it is Scripture that is built on the foundation. It goes beyond fundamentalism, but it is built solid on Christ.
Jesus Christ spoke of having faith as a mustard seed. He did not say our faith was to stay that size. It grows. We learn new stuff. We build the new stuff on the old stuff that we already know.
Far too much of the church today has squeezed through the door of the kingdom and is standing there with their back against the wall. God has a kingdom full of wisdom, knowledge, understanding, health, wealth and prosperity.
He wants us to be blessed. Yes. But He also has given to us because we are to be giving it to others. He has given us tools to preach the gospel. He has given us weapons for warfare. He gives seed to the sower. He is careful not to hand out seed to those who will not sow. And he provides for the sower. Very exceedingly abundantly.
There are those who are following the prosperity message looking to get rich quick. But that is not what is being preached. What is being preached is Scripture. It is for mature Christians.
When you watch the message on TV, you are getting a half hour or an hour of what they have to offer. To say that the doctrine is 'advanced' or the teaching for 'mature' well rooted and grounded Christians sounds like the one saying it is talking down to little kids. But that is exactly what it is. To grow in Christ means that you learned something today that you did not know yesterday. It means that the ways of the world are being purged out and the things of God are producing fruit.
Just as we learned the alphabet, then learned to write the letters, then to make words out of the letters, then how to read and make sentences, we learn the things of God. We learn who God is, how to get saved. We move from first grade to second grade. Just as we found out that we could take the letters and make words out of them, we find out that we can take Scripture promises and build faith out of them.
There is so much that God has to offer. There is more to Christianity than just being saved. More than the basics. If you don't want the health, wealth and prosperity ~ I don't believe God will force it on you. But for God's sake, don't stand in the way of His giving what He wants to give to others.
Hbr 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hbr 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hbr 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
The more your faith grows, the more miracles that are worked in your life, the more the world will think it strange. The less secular we look.
God has so much that He wants to give to us. So much that He wants to do for us. NOT just so we can sit on top of all our wealth. But so that He can use us to reach the world for Jesus Christ.
If you want to shoot Scripture back and forth, I can guarantee that it is not the amount of riches that we have, or don't have. It is not how sick, or healthy we are. IT is all about our attitude. Our heart for God. Our willingness to be used where we are, and our willingness to move forward.
2Ch 9:22 And king Solomon passed all the kings of the earth in riches and wisdom.
Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Do either of these men, Solomon or Peter, have more favor in God's eyes than the other?
Not everyone is called to be wealthy. Don't condemn those who are.
John 9:2-3 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Not everyone is born blind either.
God deals with His children as individuals. He has a standard that all of us are called to follow. Standards for any conditions or circumstances that any of us may meet on any given mission field. conditions that put the cause and effect element into motion.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Did you notice this phrase:according to his several ability.
I wonder how many people read this and think that the guy with the five talents should give away four of them?
He can trust some of His children with a Rolls Royce, or a fleet of them. Some of us would not do well with a Rolls. Tell me, how does God view it when one of His children is driving a vehicle that has duct tape holding the windows up? Are we to be judged according to the same rules? Are we more or less godly than the brethren with the shiny new cars?
There is absolutely nothing in Scripture that says a Christian is supposed to have X number of dollars, no more, no less. Nothing that says a Christian is supposed to have X number of cars, and they must be brand x, and that they must all be blue. Neither does God say to everyone, 'Sell everything and give it all to the poor.'
Riches are not an absolute in doctrine. Your attitude toward it, your own riches, and that of others...that is what God deals with. The way you look at what others drive, their hair style, the stud in their pierced nose, the three piece wool suit, or their torn blue jeans.
GOD LOOKS AT THE HEART. PERIOD.
It appears to me that the verses that you have quoted all speak of the love of money, putting money before God, making money the goal, putting trust in money instead of God, etc.
The 'prosperity' preaching, as it has been called, does not do that. The problem is that most people who are against it have somehow missed the fact that it is Scripture that is built on the foundation. It goes beyond fundamentalism, but it is built solid on Christ.
Jesus Christ spoke of having faith as a mustard seed. He did not say our faith was to stay that size. It grows. We learn new stuff. We build the new stuff on the old stuff that we already know.
Far too much of the church today has squeezed through the door of the kingdom and is standing there with their back against the wall. God has a kingdom full of wisdom, knowledge, understanding, health, wealth and prosperity.
He wants us to be blessed. Yes. But He also has given to us because we are to be giving it to others. He has given us tools to preach the gospel. He has given us weapons for warfare. He gives seed to the sower. He is careful not to hand out seed to those who will not sow. And he provides for the sower. Very exceedingly abundantly.
There are those who are following the prosperity message looking to get rich quick. But that is not what is being preached. What is being preached is Scripture. It is for mature Christians.
When you watch the message on TV, you are getting a half hour or an hour of what they have to offer. To say that the doctrine is 'advanced' or the teaching for 'mature' well rooted and grounded Christians sounds like the one saying it is talking down to little kids. But that is exactly what it is. To grow in Christ means that you learned something today that you did not know yesterday. It means that the ways of the world are being purged out and the things of God are producing fruit.
Just as we learned the alphabet, then learned to write the letters, then to make words out of the letters, then how to read and make sentences, we learn the things of God. We learn who God is, how to get saved. We move from first grade to second grade. Just as we found out that we could take the letters and make words out of them, we find out that we can take Scripture promises and build faith out of them.
There is so much that God has to offer. There is more to Christianity than just being saved. More than the basics. If you don't want the health, wealth and prosperity ~ I don't believe God will force it on you. But for God's sake, don't stand in the way of His giving what He wants to give to others.
Hbr 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hbr 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Hbr 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
The more your faith grows, the more miracles that are worked in your life, the more the world will think it strange. The less secular we look.
God has so much that He wants to give to us. So much that He wants to do for us. NOT just so we can sit on top of all our wealth. But so that He can use us to reach the world for Jesus Christ.
If you want to shoot Scripture back and forth, I can guarantee that it is not the amount of riches that we have, or don't have. It is not how sick, or healthy we are. IT is all about our attitude. Our heart for God. Our willingness to be used where we are, and our willingness to move forward.
2Ch 9:22 And king Solomon passed all the kings of the earth in riches and wisdom.
Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Do either of these men, Solomon or Peter, have more favor in God's eyes than the other?
Not everyone is called to be wealthy. Don't condemn those who are.
John 9:2-3 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Not everyone is born blind either.
God deals with His children as individuals. He has a standard that all of us are called to follow. Standards for any conditions or circumstances that any of us may meet on any given mission field. conditions that put the cause and effect element into motion.
Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Did you notice this phrase:according to his several ability.
I wonder how many people read this and think that the guy with the five talents should give away four of them?
He can trust some of His children with a Rolls Royce, or a fleet of them. Some of us would not do well with a Rolls. Tell me, how does God view it when one of His children is driving a vehicle that has duct tape holding the windows up? Are we to be judged according to the same rules? Are we more or less godly than the brethren with the shiny new cars?
There is absolutely nothing in Scripture that says a Christian is supposed to have X number of dollars, no more, no less. Nothing that says a Christian is supposed to have X number of cars, and they must be brand x, and that they must all be blue. Neither does God say to everyone, 'Sell everything and give it all to the poor.'
Riches are not an absolute in doctrine. Your attitude toward it, your own riches, and that of others...that is what God deals with. The way you look at what others drive, their hair style, the stud in their pierced nose, the three piece wool suit, or their torn blue jeans.
GOD LOOKS AT THE HEART. PERIOD.
jgredline
Member
Re: reply
Jack
I do not believe this at all to be true. This theology is not calvinistic or armenianst. This theology was first brought forth by Luther. This theology would be wrong.
This is what I believe.
Through Adam, the inherent inclination to sin entered the human race and human beings became sinners by nature. When Adam sinned, his inner nature was transformed by his sin of rebellion, bringing to him spiritual death and depravity which would be passed on to all who came after him. Humans became sinners not because they sinned, they sinned because they were sinners. This is the condition known as inherited sin. Just as we inherit physical characteristics from our parents, we inherit our sinful natures from Adam. King David lamented this condition of fallen human nature in Psalm 51:5: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.â€Â
Now as far as Inputed sin Goes, this is it in a nutshell.
God used the principle of imputation to the benefit of mankind when He imputed the sin of believers to the account of Jesus Christ, who paid the penalty for that sin (death) on the cross. Imputing our sin to Jesus, God treated Him as if He were a sinner though He was not, and had Him die for the sins of all who would ever believe in Him. It’s important to understand that sin was imputed to Him, but he did not inherit it from Adam. He bore the penalty for sin, but He never became a sinner. His pure and perfect nature was untouched by sin. He was treated as though He was guilty of all the sins ever committed by all who would ever believe, even though He committed none. In exchange, God imputed the righteousness of Christ to believers and credited our accounts with His righteousness just as He credited our sins to His account (2 Corinthians 5:21).
I still have not found any scripture to support the view that believers are not sinners. I have searched high and low and I keep coming up with verses that say just the opposite. That Christians are sinners, saved by Grace through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.
golfjack said:
Jack
I do not believe this at all to be true. This theology is not calvinistic or armenianst. This theology was first brought forth by Luther. This theology would be wrong.
This is what I believe.
Through Adam, the inherent inclination to sin entered the human race and human beings became sinners by nature. When Adam sinned, his inner nature was transformed by his sin of rebellion, bringing to him spiritual death and depravity which would be passed on to all who came after him. Humans became sinners not because they sinned, they sinned because they were sinners. This is the condition known as inherited sin. Just as we inherit physical characteristics from our parents, we inherit our sinful natures from Adam. King David lamented this condition of fallen human nature in Psalm 51:5: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.â€Â
Now as far as Inputed sin Goes, this is it in a nutshell.
God used the principle of imputation to the benefit of mankind when He imputed the sin of believers to the account of Jesus Christ, who paid the penalty for that sin (death) on the cross. Imputing our sin to Jesus, God treated Him as if He were a sinner though He was not, and had Him die for the sins of all who would ever believe in Him. It’s important to understand that sin was imputed to Him, but he did not inherit it from Adam. He bore the penalty for sin, but He never became a sinner. His pure and perfect nature was untouched by sin. He was treated as though He was guilty of all the sins ever committed by all who would ever believe, even though He committed none. In exchange, God imputed the righteousness of Christ to believers and credited our accounts with His righteousness just as He credited our sins to His account (2 Corinthians 5:21).
I still have not found any scripture to support the view that believers are not sinners. I have searched high and low and I keep coming up with verses that say just the opposite. That Christians are sinners, saved by Grace through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.
reply
Jg. Simply put: Did Jesus have to suffer spiritual death so that we can have spiritual life: Is Jesus called the second Adam? Did he not have to turn it around and be the First Born again? Did he have to go to Hades to let the prisoners out? Did he take the keys away from Satan and opened the doors of heaven. I can show you scriptures that prove that He did. Adam died spiritually and as a result we have a manifestation of Physical death. Jesus had to turn it around. Maybe you belierve this, but I am not familar with your Christian lingo.
May God bless, golfjack
Jg. Simply put: Did Jesus have to suffer spiritual death so that we can have spiritual life: Is Jesus called the second Adam? Did he not have to turn it around and be the First Born again? Did he have to go to Hades to let the prisoners out? Did he take the keys away from Satan and opened the doors of heaven. I can show you scriptures that prove that He did. Adam died spiritually and as a result we have a manifestation of Physical death. Jesus had to turn it around. Maybe you belierve this, but I am not familar with your Christian lingo.
May God bless, golfjack
jgredline
Member
The Loveless Church
Rev 2:1-7
2 "To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,
These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: 2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; 3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name's sake and have not become weary. 4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place-unless you repent. 6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."
The apostosy of the church was already in full effect, when the Lord Jesus Christ gave these messages to John concerning his church or those whom thought that this was Jesus Church anyway.
The Lord introduces Himself to the church of Ephesus as the One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands. Most of the descriptions of the Lord in these letters are similar to that which is found in chapter 1.
This church was outstanding for its plentiful works, its arduous labor, and its patient endurance. It did not tolerate evil men in its midst. It had the ability to discern false apostles and to deal with them accordingly.
For the sake of Christ’s name, it had endured trial and adversity with patience and had labored tirelessly. But the tragedy of Ephesus was that it had left its first love. The fire of its affection had died down. The glowing enthusiasm of its early days had disappeared. The Christians could look back to better days when their bridal love for Christ flowed warm, full, and free. They were still sound in doctrine and active in service, but the true motive of all worship and service was missing.
They should remember the good days of their early faith, repent of their diminishing of first love, and repeat the devoted service which characterized the outset of their Christian life. Otherwise He would remove the lampstand at Ephesus, that is, the assembly would cease to exist. Its testimony would die out. We see this happening today. Look at the Presbytiran Church or the Episcobal church. More about these two denominations a little later.
A further word of commendation concerns their hatred of the deeds of the Nicolaitans. I cannot be positive who these people were. Some think they were followers of a religious leader named Nicolas. Others point out that the name means “rule over the laity†and see in this a reference to the rise of the clerical system. I really don't know. If anybody has some credible views, I would appreciate the comments.
Those who have ears to hear God’s word are encouraged to listen to what the Spirit says to the churches.
Then a promise is held out to the overcomer. In general, an overcomer in the NT is one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who is God in-carnite(1 Jn. 5:5), in other words, a true believer. His faith enables him to overcome the world with all its temptations and allurements. Perhaps in each of the letters the word has an additional thought, connected with the condition in that particular church. Thus an overcomer in Ephesus may be one who shows the genuineness of his faith by repenting when he has backslidden from his first love. All such will . . .eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. This does not imply that they are saved by overcoming, but that their overcoming proves the reality of their conversion experience. The only way men are saved is by grace through faith in Christ. All who are saved will eat from the tree of life, that is, they will enter into eternal life in its fullness in heaven.
Ephesus is often taken to describe the condition of the church soon after the death of the apostles.
I will work on the next church. Every church on this planet falls into one catagory. Of the seven Churches only one is right. When the Rapture happens between chapters 3-4 Jesus will say to 6 of these churches. ''I never knew you''
Rev 2:1-7
2 "To the angel of the church of Ephesus write,
These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: 2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; 3 and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name's sake and have not become weary. 4 Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place-unless you repent. 6 But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God."
The apostosy of the church was already in full effect, when the Lord Jesus Christ gave these messages to John concerning his church or those whom thought that this was Jesus Church anyway.
The Lord introduces Himself to the church of Ephesus as the One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands. Most of the descriptions of the Lord in these letters are similar to that which is found in chapter 1.
This church was outstanding for its plentiful works, its arduous labor, and its patient endurance. It did not tolerate evil men in its midst. It had the ability to discern false apostles and to deal with them accordingly.
For the sake of Christ’s name, it had endured trial and adversity with patience and had labored tirelessly. But the tragedy of Ephesus was that it had left its first love. The fire of its affection had died down. The glowing enthusiasm of its early days had disappeared. The Christians could look back to better days when their bridal love for Christ flowed warm, full, and free. They were still sound in doctrine and active in service, but the true motive of all worship and service was missing.
They should remember the good days of their early faith, repent of their diminishing of first love, and repeat the devoted service which characterized the outset of their Christian life. Otherwise He would remove the lampstand at Ephesus, that is, the assembly would cease to exist. Its testimony would die out. We see this happening today. Look at the Presbytiran Church or the Episcobal church. More about these two denominations a little later.
A further word of commendation concerns their hatred of the deeds of the Nicolaitans. I cannot be positive who these people were. Some think they were followers of a religious leader named Nicolas. Others point out that the name means “rule over the laity†and see in this a reference to the rise of the clerical system. I really don't know. If anybody has some credible views, I would appreciate the comments.
Those who have ears to hear God’s word are encouraged to listen to what the Spirit says to the churches.
Then a promise is held out to the overcomer. In general, an overcomer in the NT is one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who is God in-carnite(1 Jn. 5:5), in other words, a true believer. His faith enables him to overcome the world with all its temptations and allurements. Perhaps in each of the letters the word has an additional thought, connected with the condition in that particular church. Thus an overcomer in Ephesus may be one who shows the genuineness of his faith by repenting when he has backslidden from his first love. All such will . . .eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God. This does not imply that they are saved by overcoming, but that their overcoming proves the reality of their conversion experience. The only way men are saved is by grace through faith in Christ. All who are saved will eat from the tree of life, that is, they will enter into eternal life in its fullness in heaven.
Ephesus is often taken to describe the condition of the church soon after the death of the apostles.
I will work on the next church. Every church on this planet falls into one catagory. Of the seven Churches only one is right. When the Rapture happens between chapters 3-4 Jesus will say to 6 of these churches. ''I never knew you''
jgredline
Member
The Persecuted Church
8 "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,
These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."
OK. Lets take a look at the second church.
Smyrna means myrrh or bitterness. Here Christ presents Himself as the First and the Last, who was dead and came to life. Why do you suppose Jesus had to remind them that he is the first and the last. The Alpha and the Omega? The only logical reason that I could come up with is because by this time there was already people like Mec and Mutz who did not believe he was God. If he is the First, then how could he have been created? Anyway lets move on.
This description would be particularly comforting to those who faced the threat of death daily.He was dead is now alive. AMEN!!
With special tenderness, the Lord tells His suffering saints that He knows their tribulation thoroughly. To outward appearances, they might be poverty-stricken, but as far as spiritual things were concerned, they were rich.
As Charles Stanley said, “There was peculiar honor in being near and like Himself, who had nowhere to lay His head. I have learned this: Jesus is specially the partner of His poor servants.â€Â
The saints at Smyrna were being bitterly attacked by the Jews. Historians tell of the eagerness with which these Jews sought to aid in the martyrdom of Polycarp, for instance(i LOVE church history). As Jews, they claimed to be God’s chosen people, but by their blasphemous behavior they showed that they were a synagogue of Satan.
The Christians should not fear any of those things they would soon suffer. Some of them would be imprisoned and tested by tribulation for ten days.
The believers were encouraged to be faithful until death, that is, to be willing to die rather than renounce their faith in Christ. They would receive the crown of life, a special reward for martyrs.
Again the willing hearer is encouraged to listen to the Spirit’s voice. The overcomer is promised exemption from the second death. Here an over comer is one who proves the reality of his faith by choosing to go to heaven with a good conscience rather than stay on earth with a bad one. He will not be affected by the second death, the doom of all unbelievers (20:6, 14).
I will work on the other 5 churches as I get time. Then we will see where certain churches fit in based on the description of what is in the bible.
8 "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,
These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."
OK. Lets take a look at the second church.
Smyrna means myrrh or bitterness. Here Christ presents Himself as the First and the Last, who was dead and came to life. Why do you suppose Jesus had to remind them that he is the first and the last. The Alpha and the Omega? The only logical reason that I could come up with is because by this time there was already people like Mec and Mutz who did not believe he was God. If he is the First, then how could he have been created? Anyway lets move on.
This description would be particularly comforting to those who faced the threat of death daily.He was dead is now alive. AMEN!!
With special tenderness, the Lord tells His suffering saints that He knows their tribulation thoroughly. To outward appearances, they might be poverty-stricken, but as far as spiritual things were concerned, they were rich.
As Charles Stanley said, “There was peculiar honor in being near and like Himself, who had nowhere to lay His head. I have learned this: Jesus is specially the partner of His poor servants.â€Â
The saints at Smyrna were being bitterly attacked by the Jews. Historians tell of the eagerness with which these Jews sought to aid in the martyrdom of Polycarp, for instance(i LOVE church history). As Jews, they claimed to be God’s chosen people, but by their blasphemous behavior they showed that they were a synagogue of Satan.
The Christians should not fear any of those things they would soon suffer. Some of them would be imprisoned and tested by tribulation for ten days.
The believers were encouraged to be faithful until death, that is, to be willing to die rather than renounce their faith in Christ. They would receive the crown of life, a special reward for martyrs.
Again the willing hearer is encouraged to listen to the Spirit’s voice. The overcomer is promised exemption from the second death. Here an over comer is one who proves the reality of his faith by choosing to go to heaven with a good conscience rather than stay on earth with a bad one. He will not be affected by the second death, the doom of all unbelievers (20:6, 14).
I will work on the other 5 churches as I get time. Then we will see where certain churches fit in based on the description of what is in the bible.
jgredline
Member
The Compromising Church
12 "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,
These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: 13 "I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
17 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it."
Pergamos (or Pergamum) means high tower or thoroughly married. This letter presents the Lord as the One who has the sharp two-edged sword. This is the word of God (Heb. 4:12) with which He will judge evildoers in the assembly
Pergamos was the Asian headquarters for the cult of emperor-worship: hence it is called the place of Satan’s throne. In spite of the surrounding paganism, the church had remained loyal to Christ, even though one of its members, Antipas, had been martyred for his confession of the Lord Jesus. He was the first known Asian to die for refusing to worship the emperor.
But the Lord must reprove the church for permitting men with evil doctrine to continue in the Christian fellowship. There were those who held the doctrine of Balaam and of the Nicolai tans. The doctrine of Balaam sanctioned eating things sacrificed to idols and sexual immorality. It also refers to the practice of preaching for hire.
The doctrine of the Nicolaitans is not defined. Many Bible scholars feel that these were libertines, teaching that those under grace were free to practice idolatry and sexual sins. I for one am not sure. Lots of opinions though.
True believers are called on to repent. If they did, they would presumably expel the evil teachers from their midst. Otherwise the Lord Himself would fight against these evil men. I will have more to say on this a little later.
Obedient saints should hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The overcomer would be given hidden manna and a white stone. The over comer in Pergamos may be the child of God who refuses to tolerate evil teaching in the local church. But what are the hidden manna and the white stone?
Manna is a type of Christ Himself. It may speak of heavenly food in contrast to foods offered to idols.The white stone has been explained in many ways. It was a token of acquittal in a legal case. It was a symbol of victory in an athletic contest. It was an expression of welcome given by a host to his guest. It seems clear that it is a reward given by the Lord to the overcomer and expressing individual approval by Him.
12 "And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,
These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: 13 "I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16 Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
17 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it."
Pergamos (or Pergamum) means high tower or thoroughly married. This letter presents the Lord as the One who has the sharp two-edged sword. This is the word of God (Heb. 4:12) with which He will judge evildoers in the assembly
Pergamos was the Asian headquarters for the cult of emperor-worship: hence it is called the place of Satan’s throne. In spite of the surrounding paganism, the church had remained loyal to Christ, even though one of its members, Antipas, had been martyred for his confession of the Lord Jesus. He was the first known Asian to die for refusing to worship the emperor.
But the Lord must reprove the church for permitting men with evil doctrine to continue in the Christian fellowship. There were those who held the doctrine of Balaam and of the Nicolai tans. The doctrine of Balaam sanctioned eating things sacrificed to idols and sexual immorality. It also refers to the practice of preaching for hire.
The doctrine of the Nicolaitans is not defined. Many Bible scholars feel that these were libertines, teaching that those under grace were free to practice idolatry and sexual sins. I for one am not sure. Lots of opinions though.
True believers are called on to repent. If they did, they would presumably expel the evil teachers from their midst. Otherwise the Lord Himself would fight against these evil men. I will have more to say on this a little later.
Obedient saints should hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The overcomer would be given hidden manna and a white stone. The over comer in Pergamos may be the child of God who refuses to tolerate evil teaching in the local church. But what are the hidden manna and the white stone?
Manna is a type of Christ Himself. It may speak of heavenly food in contrast to foods offered to idols.The white stone has been explained in many ways. It was a token of acquittal in a legal case. It was a symbol of victory in an athletic contest. It was an expression of welcome given by a host to his guest. It seems clear that it is a reward given by the Lord to the overcomer and expressing individual approval by Him.
jgredline
Member
The Corrupt Church
18 "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,
These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 "I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
24 "Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. 25 But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations-
27 He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels'-
as I also have received from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star.
29 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
The name Thyatira means perpetual sacrifice or continual offering. In this letter the Son of God is seen as having eyes like a flame of fire and feet like fine brass. The eyes speak of piercing vision, and the brass feet speak of threatened judgment.
This church was outstanding in several ways. It was not lacking in good works, love, service, faith, and patient endurance. In fact, its works were increasing in quantity rather than declining.
But impure doctrine had been tolerated in the assembly with the result that immorality and idolatry were being practiced. The church had permitted a self-styled prophetess named Jezebel to lead God’s servants into sin. (Is their anyone named Jezebel on TBN?)
Just as Jezebel in the OT had corrupted God’s people with fornication and idolatry, so this woman taught that Christians could engage in these practices without sinning. (Can I say seeker friendly)
Perhaps she encouraged the believers to join the trade guilds of Thyatira, even though this involved honoring the guild god or goddess and participating in festivals where food was sacrificed to idols. She doubtless justified this compromise with the world on the ground that it would allegedly advance the cause of the church. (fleece the sheep of God)
Because she refused to repent, the Lord was going to give her a sick bed of tribulation in place of her bed of lust. Those who committed adultery with her would be thrown into a bed of great tribulation and death unless they forsook her and escaped from her deeds. Then all the churches would know that the Lord is watching and that He rewards according to man’s deeds. There was probably a literal prophetess in Thyatira named Jezebel. Atleast this is what early church tradition teaches.Some commentators have also seen here a reference to the rise of a false church system with its adoration of images, sale of indulgences, and priestly absolution from such sins as fornication. This is the view that I hold to. As I read and learn more about these early churches, its is very easy to see how every church on the planet will fit into one of these groups. Its easy to see how narrow is the path and how wide the path to destruction is. It is also easy to see a Pre trib rapture between chapters 3 and 4 of Rev.
There was a faithful remnant in Thyatira (the rest ... as many as do not have this doctrine) which had not been initiated into the secret doctrines and rites of Jezebel, otherwise known as the depths of Satan. No other burden of responsibility was placed on them than to hold fast the truth until Christ’s Coming.
The overcomer in Thyatira was the true believer who steadfastly maintained the works of genuine Christianity. His reward would be to reign with Christ during the Millennium. He would have authority over the nations and would rule them with a rod of iron. All sin and rebellion would be punished severely and promptly. The Lord promised to give to the overcomer the morning star. The Lord Jesus is the Bright and Morning Star (22:16). Just as the morning star appears in the heavens before the sun rises, so Christ will appear as the Morning Star to rapture His church to heaven before He appears as the Sun of Righteousness to reign over the earth, Thus the overcomer is promised a part in the Rapture. He does not earn this by his works, but his works demonstrate the reality of his faith. Because he is genuinely converted, he will be given the morning star.
In this and the following three letters, the formula “He who has an ear, let him hear . . .†follows the promise to the overcomer rather than preceding it. This may indicate that from this point on, only those who overcome are expected to have an ear to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. So pay attention and be ready
18 "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write,
These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 "I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.
24 "Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. 25 But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations-
27 He shall rule them with a rod of iron;
They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels'-
as I also have received from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star.
29 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
The name Thyatira means perpetual sacrifice or continual offering. In this letter the Son of God is seen as having eyes like a flame of fire and feet like fine brass. The eyes speak of piercing vision, and the brass feet speak of threatened judgment.
This church was outstanding in several ways. It was not lacking in good works, love, service, faith, and patient endurance. In fact, its works were increasing in quantity rather than declining.
But impure doctrine had been tolerated in the assembly with the result that immorality and idolatry were being practiced. The church had permitted a self-styled prophetess named Jezebel to lead God’s servants into sin. (Is their anyone named Jezebel on TBN?)
Just as Jezebel in the OT had corrupted God’s people with fornication and idolatry, so this woman taught that Christians could engage in these practices without sinning. (Can I say seeker friendly)
Perhaps she encouraged the believers to join the trade guilds of Thyatira, even though this involved honoring the guild god or goddess and participating in festivals where food was sacrificed to idols. She doubtless justified this compromise with the world on the ground that it would allegedly advance the cause of the church. (fleece the sheep of God)
Because she refused to repent, the Lord was going to give her a sick bed of tribulation in place of her bed of lust. Those who committed adultery with her would be thrown into a bed of great tribulation and death unless they forsook her and escaped from her deeds. Then all the churches would know that the Lord is watching and that He rewards according to man’s deeds. There was probably a literal prophetess in Thyatira named Jezebel. Atleast this is what early church tradition teaches.Some commentators have also seen here a reference to the rise of a false church system with its adoration of images, sale of indulgences, and priestly absolution from such sins as fornication. This is the view that I hold to. As I read and learn more about these early churches, its is very easy to see how every church on the planet will fit into one of these groups. Its easy to see how narrow is the path and how wide the path to destruction is. It is also easy to see a Pre trib rapture between chapters 3 and 4 of Rev.
There was a faithful remnant in Thyatira (the rest ... as many as do not have this doctrine) which had not been initiated into the secret doctrines and rites of Jezebel, otherwise known as the depths of Satan. No other burden of responsibility was placed on them than to hold fast the truth until Christ’s Coming.
The overcomer in Thyatira was the true believer who steadfastly maintained the works of genuine Christianity. His reward would be to reign with Christ during the Millennium. He would have authority over the nations and would rule them with a rod of iron. All sin and rebellion would be punished severely and promptly. The Lord promised to give to the overcomer the morning star. The Lord Jesus is the Bright and Morning Star (22:16). Just as the morning star appears in the heavens before the sun rises, so Christ will appear as the Morning Star to rapture His church to heaven before He appears as the Sun of Righteousness to reign over the earth, Thus the overcomer is promised a part in the Rapture. He does not earn this by his works, but his works demonstrate the reality of his faith. Because he is genuinely converted, he will be given the morning star.
In this and the following three letters, the formula “He who has an ear, let him hear . . .†follows the promise to the overcomer rather than preceding it. This may indicate that from this point on, only those who overcome are expected to have an ear to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. So pay attention and be ready
jgredline
Member
The Dead Church
3 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
Sardis means those escaping or renovation. The Lord reveals Himself as the One who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars. (lots of CULTS take this and turn into something that it is not) It is in the power of the Holy Spirit that He controls the churches and their messengers. Sardis was a church of lifeless profession. It had a reputation as a Christian assembly, but for the most part, it simply went through a formal, dull routine. It did not overflow with spiritual life. It did not sparkle with the supernatural.
The Lord called it to a new zeal and a new endeavor to strengthen what little there remained for Him, for even that was showing signs of dying. The people had often started projects for God but had never brought them to completion. Christ warned them to hold fast the sacred deposit of truth and to repent of their lifelessness. Unless they awoke, He would come unexpectedly and deal with them in judgment.
There was a remnant even in Sardis which had not lost its Christian testimony. These believers who had not defiled their garments with worldliness would walk with Christ in white.
They were the overcomers, whose righteous acts marked them as true believers. Their white garments speak of the righteousness of their lives. Because they were manifestly true Christians, their names would not be blotted out of the Book of Life.
Some think that the Book of Life contains the names of all who have been given physical life. According to this view, those who show by their lives that they have been truly born again will not be removed from the book whereas, by implication, all others will.
Others see the book as a register of those who have spiritual life. They are promised that their names will not be blotted out, that is, that they will never lose their salvation. According to this view, the fact that some names will not be blotted out does not require that others will. Does this make sense?
Because of the consistent teaching of the Scriptures that salvation is by grace, not by works, and because of the clear statements that the true believer is eternally secure , verse 5 cannot imply the possibility of a child of God ever being lost. CC pay attention here.
Our Lord adds the promise that He will confess the names of the over comers before His Father and the angels of heaven.
Again men are called to hear this solemn warning against having a religious profession without ever having been born again. There is much of this madness here on the forum
The assembly at Sardis is often taken as a picture of the Post-Reformation period when the church became formal, ritualistic, worldly, and political. The Protestant state churches of Europe and the American colonies were leaders in this drift.
3 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
6 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
Sardis means those escaping or renovation. The Lord reveals Himself as the One who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars. (lots of CULTS take this and turn into something that it is not) It is in the power of the Holy Spirit that He controls the churches and their messengers. Sardis was a church of lifeless profession. It had a reputation as a Christian assembly, but for the most part, it simply went through a formal, dull routine. It did not overflow with spiritual life. It did not sparkle with the supernatural.
The Lord called it to a new zeal and a new endeavor to strengthen what little there remained for Him, for even that was showing signs of dying. The people had often started projects for God but had never brought them to completion. Christ warned them to hold fast the sacred deposit of truth and to repent of their lifelessness. Unless they awoke, He would come unexpectedly and deal with them in judgment.
There was a remnant even in Sardis which had not lost its Christian testimony. These believers who had not defiled their garments with worldliness would walk with Christ in white.
They were the overcomers, whose righteous acts marked them as true believers. Their white garments speak of the righteousness of their lives. Because they were manifestly true Christians, their names would not be blotted out of the Book of Life.
Some think that the Book of Life contains the names of all who have been given physical life. According to this view, those who show by their lives that they have been truly born again will not be removed from the book whereas, by implication, all others will.
Others see the book as a register of those who have spiritual life. They are promised that their names will not be blotted out, that is, that they will never lose their salvation. According to this view, the fact that some names will not be blotted out does not require that others will. Does this make sense?
Because of the consistent teaching of the Scriptures that salvation is by grace, not by works, and because of the clear statements that the true believer is eternally secure , verse 5 cannot imply the possibility of a child of God ever being lost. CC pay attention here.
Our Lord adds the promise that He will confess the names of the over comers before His Father and the angels of heaven.
Again men are called to hear this solemn warning against having a religious profession without ever having been born again. There is much of this madness here on the forum
The assembly at Sardis is often taken as a picture of the Post-Reformation period when the church became formal, ritualistic, worldly, and political. The Protestant state churches of Europe and the American colonies were leaders in this drift.
jgredline
Member
The Faithful Church
7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write,
These things says He who is holy, He who is true, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens": 8 "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. 9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie-indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. 10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
13 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
Philadelphia means love for the brethren. To this church the Lord appears as He who is holy, He who is true, He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, who shuts and no one opens.
In other words, He has administrative power and uncontestable control:
The open door which Jewish synagogue and pagan cults were powerless to shut is the God-given opportunity to preach Christ to all who will hear. The key of David is an Old Testament allusion to the absolute sovereignty of God in opening doors and shutting mouths.
The assembly at Philadelphia received only words of praise from the Lord. The saints had been faithful. They had been zealous for good works. In their own human weakness, they had trusted in the Lord. As a result, they had been able to preserve the truth by living it out in their lives. They had not denied Christ’s name. Therefore, He would set before them an open door of opportunity that no one would be able to shut.
Those self-styled Jews who had opposed them so bitterly would be humbled before these simple believers. Those who claimed to be God’s chosen people, though actually a synagogue of Satan, would be forced to admit that the despised Christians were actually the chosen flock.
Because the Philadelphians had maintained God’s truth by living it before men, the Lord would keep them from the hour of trial which is to come upon all who dwell on the earth. This is a promise of exemption from the Tribulation Period described in chapters 6–19. Note that they will be kept from the hour of trial, that is, from the whole time period. Also they will be kept out of that period , not through it.
“Those who dwell on the earth†is a technical term, meaning those who make this earth their home, “men of the world who have their portion in this life†.
Christ’s coming is held before the saints as a motive to steadfast endurance. They should not let anyone rob them of the victor’s crown when it is so near at hand.
The overcomer will be made a pillar in the inner sanctuary of God. Whatever else this may mean, it certainly carries the thought of strength, honor, and permanent security. He shall never leave this place of safety and joy. The overcomer will have three names written on him: the name of ... God, the name of the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from ... God, and the new name of the Lord Jesus. He will thus be identified as belonging to all three.
He who has an ear should listen to this message from the Spirit to the churches.
The church of Philadelphia is often taken as a symbol of the great evangelical awakening in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, the recovery of the truth concerning the church and Christ’s coming, and the worldwide missionary outreach. While evangelical Christians enjoyed a real measure of recovery during this period, yet Satan made a determined effort to leaven the church with legalism, ritualism, and rationalism.
7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write,
These things says He who is holy, He who is true, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens": 8 "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. 9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie-indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. 10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
13 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
Philadelphia means love for the brethren. To this church the Lord appears as He who is holy, He who is true, He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, who shuts and no one opens.
In other words, He has administrative power and uncontestable control:
The open door which Jewish synagogue and pagan cults were powerless to shut is the God-given opportunity to preach Christ to all who will hear. The key of David is an Old Testament allusion to the absolute sovereignty of God in opening doors and shutting mouths.
The assembly at Philadelphia received only words of praise from the Lord. The saints had been faithful. They had been zealous for good works. In their own human weakness, they had trusted in the Lord. As a result, they had been able to preserve the truth by living it out in their lives. They had not denied Christ’s name. Therefore, He would set before them an open door of opportunity that no one would be able to shut.
Those self-styled Jews who had opposed them so bitterly would be humbled before these simple believers. Those who claimed to be God’s chosen people, though actually a synagogue of Satan, would be forced to admit that the despised Christians were actually the chosen flock.
Because the Philadelphians had maintained God’s truth by living it before men, the Lord would keep them from the hour of trial which is to come upon all who dwell on the earth. This is a promise of exemption from the Tribulation Period described in chapters 6–19. Note that they will be kept from the hour of trial, that is, from the whole time period. Also they will be kept out of that period , not through it.
“Those who dwell on the earth†is a technical term, meaning those who make this earth their home, “men of the world who have their portion in this life†.
Christ’s coming is held before the saints as a motive to steadfast endurance. They should not let anyone rob them of the victor’s crown when it is so near at hand.
The overcomer will be made a pillar in the inner sanctuary of God. Whatever else this may mean, it certainly carries the thought of strength, honor, and permanent security. He shall never leave this place of safety and joy. The overcomer will have three names written on him: the name of ... God, the name of the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from ... God, and the new name of the Lord Jesus. He will thus be identified as belonging to all three.
He who has an ear should listen to this message from the Spirit to the churches.
The church of Philadelphia is often taken as a symbol of the great evangelical awakening in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, the recovery of the truth concerning the church and Christ’s coming, and the worldwide missionary outreach. While evangelical Christians enjoyed a real measure of recovery during this period, yet Satan made a determined effort to leaven the church with legalism, ritualism, and rationalism.
jgredline
Member
The Lukewarm Church
14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing-and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked- 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
22 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." "
The name Laodicea means either the people ruling or the judgment of the people. The Lord Jesus speaks of Himself as the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness.
As the Amen, He is the embodiment of faithfulness and truth, and the One who guarantees and fulfills the promises of God. He is also the originator of the creation of God (Jesus is God), both material and spiritual. The expression, “the Beginning of the creation of God†does not mean that He was the first Person to be created; He was never created. Rather, it means that He began all creation. It does not say that He had a beginning, but that He is the Beginning. He is the origin of the creation of God. And He is pre-eminent over all creation. Mec and Mutz. I had to make sure I was clear on my position, before you guys jumped on something I said.
The church at Laodicea was neither cold nor hot. It was sickeningly lukewarm. The Lord would have preferred it to have been extreme in its indifference or its zeal. But noâ€â€it was lukewarm enough to deceive people into thinking that it was a church of God, and so disgustingly lukewarm about divine things as to nauseate the Most High. Furthermore, the church was characterized by pride, ignorance, self-sufficiency, and complacency.
The people were counseled to buy from the Lord gold refined in the fire. This may mean divine righteousness, which is bought without money or price but received as a gift through faith in the Lord Jesus.
Also the people were counseled to buy white garments, that is, practical righteousness in everyday life. And they should anoint their eyes with eye salve, that is, gain true spiritual vision through the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. This counsel was especially appropriate, since Laodicea was known as a center for banking, textiles, and medicinesâ€â€especially eye salve. This in itself is a great study
The Lord’s love for the church is seen in the fact that He rebukes and chastens it. If He did not care, He would not bother. With lingering tenderness, He calls on this nominal church to be zealous and repent.
Scofield calls “the place and attitude of Christ at the end of the church age.†He is outside the professing church, politely knocking and inviting individuals (no longer the mass of the people) to leave the apostate church in order to have fellowship with Him.
Trench comments:
Every man is lord of the house of his own heart; it is his fortress; he must open the gates of it. He has the mournful prerogative and privilege of refusing to open. But if he refuses, he is blindly at strife with his own blessedness, a miserable conqueror.
The overcomer is promised that he will share the glory of Christ’s throne and reign with Him over the millennial earth. Those who follow Him in humility, rejection, and suffering will also follow Him in glory.
Then for the last time, the hearer is solemnly advised to listen to the voice of the Spirit.
Whatever interpretation we take of the book of Revelation (and there is 4 main views), it is undeniable that the church of Laodicea presents a vivid picture of the age in which we live.
Luxury-living abounds on every hand while souls are dying for want of the gospel. Christians are wearing crowns instead of bearing a cross. We become more emotionally stirred over sports, politics, or television than we do over Christ. There is little sense of spiritual need, little longing for true revival. We give the best of our lives to the business world, then turn over the remnants of a wasted career to the Savior. We cater to our bodies which in a few short years will return to dust. We accumulate instead of forsake, lay up treasures on earth instead of in heaven. The general attitude is, “Nothing too good for the people of God. If I don’t pamper myself, who will? Let’s get ahead in the world and give our spare evenings to the Lord.†This is our condition on the eve of Christ’s Return.
As I sit here and write this, I can't help but see me in this at one time or another. In putting this together I am reminded that I am sinner and it is reason to praise the Lord Jesus Christ for taking my sins with him to the cross. Thank you Jesus
14 "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing-and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked- 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
22 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." "
The name Laodicea means either the people ruling or the judgment of the people. The Lord Jesus speaks of Himself as the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness.
As the Amen, He is the embodiment of faithfulness and truth, and the One who guarantees and fulfills the promises of God. He is also the originator of the creation of God (Jesus is God), both material and spiritual. The expression, “the Beginning of the creation of God†does not mean that He was the first Person to be created; He was never created. Rather, it means that He began all creation. It does not say that He had a beginning, but that He is the Beginning. He is the origin of the creation of God. And He is pre-eminent over all creation. Mec and Mutz. I had to make sure I was clear on my position, before you guys jumped on something I said.
The church at Laodicea was neither cold nor hot. It was sickeningly lukewarm. The Lord would have preferred it to have been extreme in its indifference or its zeal. But noâ€â€it was lukewarm enough to deceive people into thinking that it was a church of God, and so disgustingly lukewarm about divine things as to nauseate the Most High. Furthermore, the church was characterized by pride, ignorance, self-sufficiency, and complacency.
The people were counseled to buy from the Lord gold refined in the fire. This may mean divine righteousness, which is bought without money or price but received as a gift through faith in the Lord Jesus.
Also the people were counseled to buy white garments, that is, practical righteousness in everyday life. And they should anoint their eyes with eye salve, that is, gain true spiritual vision through the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit. This counsel was especially appropriate, since Laodicea was known as a center for banking, textiles, and medicinesâ€â€especially eye salve. This in itself is a great study
The Lord’s love for the church is seen in the fact that He rebukes and chastens it. If He did not care, He would not bother. With lingering tenderness, He calls on this nominal church to be zealous and repent.
Scofield calls “the place and attitude of Christ at the end of the church age.†He is outside the professing church, politely knocking and inviting individuals (no longer the mass of the people) to leave the apostate church in order to have fellowship with Him.
Trench comments:
Every man is lord of the house of his own heart; it is his fortress; he must open the gates of it. He has the mournful prerogative and privilege of refusing to open. But if he refuses, he is blindly at strife with his own blessedness, a miserable conqueror.
The overcomer is promised that he will share the glory of Christ’s throne and reign with Him over the millennial earth. Those who follow Him in humility, rejection, and suffering will also follow Him in glory.
Then for the last time, the hearer is solemnly advised to listen to the voice of the Spirit.
Whatever interpretation we take of the book of Revelation (and there is 4 main views), it is undeniable that the church of Laodicea presents a vivid picture of the age in which we live.
Luxury-living abounds on every hand while souls are dying for want of the gospel. Christians are wearing crowns instead of bearing a cross. We become more emotionally stirred over sports, politics, or television than we do over Christ. There is little sense of spiritual need, little longing for true revival. We give the best of our lives to the business world, then turn over the remnants of a wasted career to the Savior. We cater to our bodies which in a few short years will return to dust. We accumulate instead of forsake, lay up treasures on earth instead of in heaven. The general attitude is, “Nothing too good for the people of God. If I don’t pamper myself, who will? Let’s get ahead in the world and give our spare evenings to the Lord.†This is our condition on the eve of Christ’s Return.
As I sit here and write this, I can't help but see me in this at one time or another. In putting this together I am reminded that I am sinner and it is reason to praise the Lord Jesus Christ for taking my sins with him to the cross. Thank you Jesus