The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?

[beloved57]

That is John Calvin's limited atonement heresy.
Jhn 3:15-17... whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

"The world", used 4 times in that passage, includes all of mankind. Jesus did not say, "For God so some of loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into some of the world, not to condemn some of the world, but that some of the world might be saved through him."

The reason why everyone is not saved is because not everyone believes.
Jn 3:18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Jhn 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him.
Mar 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Act 16:31 Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.
Rom 10:9 if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Calvin's notion that God would withhold salvation from some portion of mankind rather than offer it to all mankind makes God out to be a monster who saves some sinners and condemns others because they do not do what is impossible for them to do.

If that's the god you preach, I'm not surprised that people would stay away and be repulsed by such an angry monster.

The notion that God does not love ALL mankind denies that God is love. (1Jo 4:8, 16)
The notion that God does not desire ALL mankind be saved makes scripture false which says, "The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." (2Pe 3:9)

You are calling Gods word heresy. Some people are reconciled to God while being enemies and some are not.Those who are reconciled as enemies was because of Christ died for them Rom 5:10. So them who are not, but are under Gods condemnation and wrath as per Jn 3:18,36 Christ death wasn't for them.

 

[beloved57]

Yes, The same Jesus we worship, It's just that Hebrews gives a full explanation of who He was and what and why it had to be done.

The Jesus l know and believe in was successful in seeking and saving all for whom He was responsible to seek and to save, 100%.

 

[JohnDB]

God created ALL of mankind.
John 3:16
God has always desired to be in fellowship with all of mankind...using several means to accomplish this.
(Only One Savior though)

God has used a "Nation of Priests" to communicate through to the whole world.
And even though they were his own, "his own received him not".
So now we have the planned inclusion of the Gentiles in which God calls all of them and has obviously chosen some to be his spokesman just as in times past with the Jews.

 

[beloved57]

Makes us Righteous, Law Keepers !

Everyone Christ lived and died for, by it, were made righteous, or keepers/doers of the law. Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Now Christ's obedience started from the cradle to the cross, to include the cross Phil 2:8 and that made those He represented righteous. That word righteous in Rom 5:19 is the greek word dikaios: and means:

just; especially, just in the eyes of God; righteous; the elect, in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping [or obedience to] the commands of God;

You see, all the obedience man owed to the law of God, Christ rendered it to Gods Law for the many He represented Rom 5:19. So in truth and fact, those Christ lived and died for are those who Paul writes of here Rom 2:13

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

The doers of the law ! And whats the promise unto the doers of the law ? They shall be Justified !
The word justified in this verse is the greek word dikaioō

1. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
   
   It comes from the word dikaios, the word for righteous in Rom 5:19
   
   All for whom Christ lived and died are automatically become doers of the Law. What God did, God imputed Christ's obedience to the law for all the many He was a Surety representative in behalf of Rom 5:19, He charged it to their account, so they have received, they incognizant of it, a righteousness charged to their account that has fully obeyed Gods Law as fully as Christ did while He was living upon the earth.
   
   This is a Truth that cannot be believed by false religion !

 

[Douglas Summers]

The Jesus l know and believe in was successful in seeking and saving all for whom He was responsible to seek and to save, 100%.

Yes, of course, why would you think any different, but unfortunately, not everyone believes that. Many feel that you have to be water baptized and do works and obey the Law of Moses, or any combination of those things to be completely saved. We are no longer under the Law of condemnation or Moses, but we are now inlawed to Christ.

 

[beloved57]

It makes us dead to the law !

Yes, of course, why would you think any different, but unfortunately, not everyone believes that. Many feel that you have to be water baptized and do works and obey the Law of Moses, or any combination of those things to be completely saved. We are no longer under the Law of condemnation or Moses, but we are now inlawed to Christ.

So you believe that those who are ultimately lost Christ didn't come to seek and to save ? Yes or No, then go from there.

 

[Douglas Summers]

It makes us dead to the law !

So you believe that those who are ultimately lost Christ didn't come to seek and to save ? Yes or No, then go from there.

You must be misunderstanding my post. Christ came to save all sinners. The Jew first, and the Gentile.

 

[beloved57]

You must be misunderstanding my post. Christ came to save all sinners. The Jew first, and the Gentile.

I asked you to answer yes or no.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I asked you to answer yes or no.

I can not answer it yes or no the way you wrote it. Did you not understand from my reply where I stand in Christ? There is more to salvation then being saved and riding off into the sunset. Let me ask you a question. What was God's purpose in Christ?

 

[GodsGrace]

I can not answer it yes or no the way you wrote it. Did you not understand from my reply where I stand in Christ? There is more to salvation then being saved and riding off into the sunset. Let me ask you a question. What was God's purpose in Christ?

Why can it not be answered yes or no?

 

[GodsGrace]

It makes us dead to the law !

So you believe that those who are ultimately lost Christ didn't come to seek and to save ? Yes or No, then go from there.

The answer is NO.
Those who are ultimately lost Christ DID come to seek and to save.
THEY didn't WANT to be saved.

 

[beloved57]

I can not answer it yes or no the way you wrote it. Did you not understand from my reply where I stand in Christ? There is more to salvation then being saved and riding off into the sunset. Let me ask you a question. What was God's purpose in Christ?

Then we have nothing to discuss, if you cant answer my question with a yes or no. Take it easy !

 

[beloved57]

The answer is NO.
Those who are ultimately lost Christ DID come to seek and to save.
THEY didn't WANT to be saved.

If you are saying that Christ did come to seek and to save someone who was lost and He did not actually save them, then you are saying He failed to do what He was sent to do. He was not successful.

 

[Sinthesis]

'It is finished' refers to Jesus' natural time on the earth, but not His full work of atonement that allows for our salvation. Jesus still needed to rise from the dead, continue to teach for forty days, ascend to Heaven, and send us the Holy Spirit before anyone could be saved. Anyone can die on a cross, but only God could do the things Jesus did after the cross, and these things were also necessary to save the world from sin.

Do you have a scripture that says this ?

Jhn 1:10 - He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Jhn 1:11 - He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Luk 24:10 - It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
Luk 24:11 - And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.​

Until Jesus revealed His victory over death, even His disciples were in despair because they had lost the man they believed was the Messiah. Nobody believed Jesus would rise from the dead because the world still didn't really know Him. Christianity would have never emerged had Jesus' story ended on the Cross, because nobody would have continued to believe Jesus is their Messiah.

 

[GodsGrace]

If you are saying that Christ did come to seek and to save someone who was lost and He did not actually save them, then you are saying He failed to do what He was sent to do. He was not successful.

He didn't fail.
The person who denied Him failed.

 

[Sinthesis]

post previously deleted by staff

Yes they do. While He was in the grave nobody, not even His followers, any longer trusted in Jesus as their redeemer. Without belief there is no salvation.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It accomplished the full salvation of all for whom it was for. Jesus said in His expiring moments these words Jn 19:30

When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

In other words, something was finished, accomplished, performed. What exactly was it ? It was the saving of His People from their sins as predicted here Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

His death of atonement actually saved His People from their sins! None for whom He died can be lost !

Are you saying all Jews are saved and no one else?
That's exactly what it sounds like you are saying.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Christ's death produces life, salvation as an accomplishment !


Mans religion doesnt believe this nor understand it, that Christ's death produces salvation fruit, the conversion of souls, its how He is Glorified ! Jesus said when close to the time of His death Jn 12:23-24

And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.


Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jesus here is describing how the Son of Man should be Glorified Vs 23. He is the corn of wheat in Vs 24 and He states what happens if it dies, signifying His death !

His death brings forth fruit, the fruit of salvation, the fruit of new life. Its just like when a farmer sows a seed of corn in the ground, what happens ? It brings forth fruit, life. The words bring forth in Vs 24 literally means to produce [to bring into existence; give rise to; cause:]

The New Birth is the result, product of Christ's death, hence believers are said to have been begotten again by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead 1 Pet 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The resurrection of Christ displays the fruit of His death, Life ! So those of us who are Truly Born again have Christ's death to Thank for that ! Our New birth is the fruit of His death !

Those false teachers who teach that Christ died for people who never are born again, do Christ's death a disservice, a injury, insult and injustice !

This last statement is strictly your opinion.
You have stated no Scripture here to support this.
Very weak argument indeed!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Christ, those He died for are reconciled to God by His death, while they are enemies Rom 5:10, but some of mankind as being enemies, instead of being reconciled to God, they are under condemnation and wrath Jn 3:18,36. So He could not have died for everyone without exception, and no verse ever says that He did.

And the reason why everyone is not saved is simple, Christ did not die for everyone !

John 3:17; "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him".
What part of "the world" do you not understand?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You are calling Gods word heresy. Some people are reconciled to God while being enemies and some are not.Those who are reconciled as enemies was because of Christ died for them Rom 5:10. So them who are not, but are under Gods condemnation and wrath as per Jn 3:18,36 Christ death wasn't for them.

What you are saying here is not christianity.
You are part of the end times where people will change the Word of God.