The Bema Seat Judgment of Christ vs. The Great White Throne Judgment

[Guest]

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.

There really is no room to say that only unbelievers will appear before the Great White Throne.

Very interesting take, but what I see here in Revelation 20:12 doesn't say the righteous are actually judged. It just says the book of life is open. I'm thinking this means that he's checking the book to see if your name is in it. Checking to see if your name is in, is part of the judgment. Notice is says, And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. I think 'what they had done' means deeds. For example, the unrighteous are judged according to their deeds. The righteous are judged according to their works. This scripture however, says nothing about the righteous. The dead is the unrighteous.

These are my thoughts. I'm still holding to the GWTJ for unrighteous only. Does scripture mention The Bema Seat Judgment of Christ. Do these words appear in the Bible. Blessings.

 

[berk60]

These are my thoughts. I'm still holding to the GWTJ for unrighteous only. Does scripture mention The Bema Seat Judgment of Christ. Do these words appear in the Bible. Blessings.

[FONT=&quot]2 Corinthians 5:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]9 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat 968 of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Christian's final judgment is described in 2 Cor 5:10 and in Rom 14:10, the "judgment seat" of Christ in the original language is "bema". The "bema" in New Testament times was a raised platform at the Olympic Games, where the chief of the games stood and placed awards (stephanos) around the neck of all the winners! The "Great White throne" in Rev 20:11, where God sits to judge all the unbelievers is a "THRONAS", or King's throne, but the Christian's judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ is a "BEMA", where all the Olympic "winners" filed by to receive their awards, or "stephanos". [/FONT]

 

[Free]

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.

There really is no room to say that only unbelievers will appear before the Great White Throne.

Very interesting take, but what I see here in Revelation 20:12 doesn't say the righteous are actually judged. It just says the book of life is open. I'm thinking this means that he's checking the book to see if your name is in it. Checking to see if your name is in, is part of the judgment. Notice is says, And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. I think 'what they had done' means deeds. For example, the unrighteous are judged according to their deeds. The righteous are judged according to their works. This scripture however, says nothing about the righteous. The dead is the unrighteous.

These are my thoughts. I'm still holding to the GWTJ for unrighteous only. Does scripture mention The Bema Seat Judgment of Christ. Do these words appear in the Bible. Blessings.

But if the GWTJ is for unbelievers only, there would be no reason for the book of life to be present. As well, verse 15 states that "if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." This implies that if anyone's name was found in the book of life, he was not thrown into the lake of fire.

The most logical conclusion is that both the righteous and unrighteous are standing before Jesus at the GWTJ.

 

[ezra]

these are 2 separate judgements even the judgement of nations is separate .

The most logical conclusion is that both the righteous and unrighteous are standing before Jesus at the GWTJ.

i disagree

 

[Free]

these are 2 separate judgements even the judgement of nations is separate .

The most logical conclusion is that both the righteous and unrighteous are standing before Jesus at the GWTJ.

i disagree

Okay. Why?

 

[Guest]

But if the GWTJ is for unbelievers only, there would be no reason for the book of life to be present. As well, verse 15 states that "if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." This implies that if anyone's name was found in the book of life, he was not thrown into the lake of fire.

The most logical conclusion is that both the righteous and unrighteous are standing before Jesus at the GWTJ.

Well, let's go back to Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Notice it says books and another book, meaning two different books. Books vs Book of Life, what are the books? I think this means books of deeds vs. book of works. deeds/unrighteous vs works/righteous.

I think scripture here is stating the fact that there is a book of life, but the scriptures around it are not speaking specifically about the book of life. and another book was opened, which is the book of life is just stating that fact, the book of life exists.

 

[Free]

But if the GWTJ is for unbelievers only, there would be no reason for the book of life to be present. As well, verse 15 states that "if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." This implies that if anyone's name was found in the book of life, he was not thrown into the lake of fire.

The most logical conclusion is that both the righteous and unrighteous are standing before Jesus at the GWTJ.

Well, let's go back to Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Notice it says books and another book, meaning two different books. Books vs Book of Life, what are the books? I think this means books of deeds vs. book of works. deeds/unrighteous vs works/righteous.

I think scripture here is stating the fact that there is a book of life, but the scriptures around it are not speaking specifically about the book of life. and another book was opened, which is the book of life is just stating that fact, the book of life exists.

Verse 15 is speaking directly about the book of life and is very clear as to why it is there and open.

 

[Guest]

But if the GWTJ is for unbelievers only, there would be no reason for the book of life to be present. As well, verse 15 states that "if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." This implies that if anyone's name was found in the book of life, he was not thrown into the lake of fire.

The most logical conclusion is that both the righteous and unrighteous are standing before Jesus at the GWTJ.

Well, let's go back to Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Notice it says books and another book, meaning two different books. Books vs Book of Life, what are the books? I think this means books of deeds vs. book of works. deeds/unrighteous vs works/righteous.

I think scripture here is stating the fact that there is a book of life, but the scriptures around it are not speaking specifically about the book of life. and another book was opened, which is the book of life is just stating that fact, the book of life exists.

Verse 15 is speaking directly about the book of life and is very clear as to why it is there and open.

Rev 20:15 is just stating that fact, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life. This is a fact, nothing more. It's not speaking about judgment thrones. Remember not to add and subtract from scripture.

 

[Free]

But if the GWTJ is for unbelievers only, there would be no reason for the book of life to be present. As well, verse 15 states that "if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." This implies that if anyone's name was found in the book of life, he was not thrown into the lake of fire.

The most logical conclusion is that both the righteous and unrighteous are standing before Jesus at the GWTJ.

Well, let's go back to Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Notice it says books and another book, meaning two different books. Books vs Book of Life, what are the books? I think this means books of deeds vs. book of works. deeds/unrighteous vs works/righteous.

I think scripture here is stating the fact that there is a book of life, but the scriptures around it are not speaking specifically about the book of life. and another book was opened, which is the book of life is just stating that fact, the book of life exists.

Verse 15 is speaking directly about the book of life and is very clear as to why it is there and open.

Rev 20:15 is just stating that fact, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life. This is a fact, nothing more. It's not speaking about judgment thrones. Remember not to add and subtract from scripture.

I am not going to discuss this with you. This is already going exactly the same way as every discussion with you and I see that it is pointless to use reason.

 

[Guest]

I am not going to discuss this with you. This is already going exactly the same way as every discussion with you and I see that it is pointless to use reason.

No problem, I'm learning when to stop.

 

[Deborah13]

I have no pervious teaching on this subject but this is what I found on the Bema Seat, with scriptures that refer to it.
http://www.gotquestions.org/judgment-seat-Christ.html

and this on the GWTJ as well as what different beliefs prevail among believers. I don't think anyone knows for sure.
http://www.gotquestions.org/great-white-throne-judgment.html

 

[tim-from-pa]

The GWTJ is where there was a general resurrection (after the millennium Revelation 20:5), and all those who never had an opportunity to know Yahweh's truth and Law are given a chance. This is why the book of life is opened. Reading this passage in Revelation we have:

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

The GWTJ is foreshadowed as the "Last Great Day" in Yahweh's feasts of redemption, and was addressed by Yeshua in John 7:37 so salvation is offered even in the end.

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Then after that, there will be the resurrection (3rd one) of the incorrigibly wicked:

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Those in the first resurrection and judgement of Yeshua when he returns are those who will rule and reign with him. That's the one we all want to be in, but only those called and chosen for that task will be in it. Not all are called now, but will be given that opportunity. Most people will be in resurrection #2, and that's not all such a bad thing, just that they are not those ruling and reigning with Yeshua at the millennium.

 

[Guest]

The BSJOC occurs before the GWTJ. The judgment and rewards of believers will occur immediately following the rapture. The GWTJ occurs later in Revelation 20 after the devil is thrown into the lake of fire. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

How can the GWTJ in Revelation 20 be talking about believers when they've already been at the Bema? Also Notice in Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. No place for them meaning the unrighteous.

I also believe that 2 Corinthians 5:10 & 1 Thessalonians 4:14 [FONT=&quot]is speaking about what's to come in the future, like a warning shot. Have we confessed our sins yet and accepted Jesus into our hearts. It's all about the timing of which things happen in the Bible and the prophecies that Jesus spoke. Blessings.[/FONT]

 

[Guest]

and all those who never had an opportunity to know Yahweh's truth and Law are given a chance.

Incorrect.

 

[tim-from-pa]

and all those who never had an opportunity to know Yahweh's truth and Law are given a chance.

Incorrect.

It's all in the feasts of Yahweh, not everyone is being saved now, but only the Firstfruits, the purpose of the Pentecost feast. More harvested later in the millennium, and also even more on the Last Great Day. This is why it's important to know and keep his feasts, as they are prophetic events (shadows) of man's redemption. It reminds me whenever there's a business presentation, someone outlines concepts or events in bulleted form to give the big picture. That's what the feasts are --- Yahweh's outline of man's redemption wrapped up in a nutshell. I gave the scripture to point that out, I can't debate anything beyond scripture as that's what it says.

 

[Guest]

and all those who never had an opportunity to know Yahweh's truth and Law are given a chance.

Incorrect.

It's all in the feasts of Yahweh, not everyone is being saved now, but only the Firstfruits, the purpose of the Pentecost feast. More harvested later in the millennium, and also even more on the Last Great Day. This is why it's important to know and keep his feasts, as they are prophetic events (shadows) of man's redemption. It reminds me whenever there's a business presentation, someone outlines concepts or events in bulleted form to give the big picture. That's what the feasts are --- Yahweh's outline of man's redemption wrapped up in a nutshell. I gave the scripture to point that out, I can't debate anything beyond scripture as that's what it says.

Yeah but we're talking about repentance before you die. Repenting after you die when your heart stops beating is not biblical. Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[tim-from-pa]

Yeah but we're talking about repentance before you die. Repenting after you die when your heart stops beating is not biblical. Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I'm talking about people who never knew the truth (e.g. ancient civilizations who knew neither Judaism or later Christianity) or those who were never called. No man can come to Yeshua save the Spirit draws him. It's up to Yahweh when that person is given a chance.

But yes, I am saying some will be given that chance in the resurrection, being raised back to physical form (like Lazarus) fully able to make that choice (like Lazarus) if that's when Yahweh calls them. (Those raised in the first resurrection will be spirit beings to rule and reign with Yeshua, which is the purpose of the church) Neither you nor I can do that on our own, only by the Spirit of Yahweh is this possible. But..... given that chance, whenever it is, I won't say the bible promises any more. So for some people, yes, it may be now, others later depending when they are called.

 

[Guest]

I'm talking about people who never knew the truth (e.g. ancient civilizations who knew neither Judaism or later Christianity) or those who were never called. No man can come to Yeshua save the Spirit draws him. It's up to Yahweh when that person is given a chance.

Notice here where it says 'creation', 'being understood' and 'so they are without excuse' in Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: ALL MEN! Yes, given a chance when they are still breathing. You cannot repent after you die.

But yes, I am saying some will be given that chance in the resurrection, being raised back to physical form (like Lazarus) fully able to make that choice (like Lazarus) if that's when Yahweh calls them.

Lazarus was raised from the dead, in that he again walked the earth. God bringing someone back to life on a surgical table vs. God resurrecting the dead in Christ upon rapture are two different things, events. For example, if you were brought back to life on a surgical table after flatlining, you darn straight you would have a second chance to repent. If you flatline and the doctor pronounces you dead, and you are in fact dead, you will no longer have the chance to repent.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Lazarus was raised from the dead, in that he again walked the earth. God bringing someone back to life on a surgical table vs. God resurrecting the dead in Christ upon rapture are two different things, events. For example, if you were brought back to life on a surgical table after flatlining, you darn straight you would have a second chance to repent. If you flatline and the doctor pronounces you dead, and you are in fact dead, you will no longer have the chance to repent.

I'm sorry but I'm not following you. What does raptures and being raised in Christ have to do with the resurrection I'm talking about? The first resurrection, as I stated earlier, one is raised as a spirit being to which the second death has no power. That occurs at Yeshua's Coming before the Millennium, not after.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry but I'm not following you. What does raptures and being raised in Christ have to do with the resurrection I'm talking about? The first resurrection, as I stated earlier, one is raised as a spirit being to which the second death has no power. That occurs at Yeshua's Coming before the Millennium, not after.

Scripture teaches us that you must be born again before you die to enter in Heaven after you die. Before/After. You don't think a sinner can be born again in Christ today, right now if he/she repented? Tim, if you die in sin without accepting Christ while you're still breathing in this lifetime, your destination is hell. Do you understand what I mean when I say people die and their heart stops beating, funeral, graves R.I.P.? I'm talking about repentance in this lifetime.