'The Bible tells me so' is wrong

[OzSpen]

That is between you and the Witness'.

That's not dealing with my response to what you wrote. It was you who wrote: 'you cannot know the spirit leading you is God without scripture'. The fact is that I can know the Spirit's promptings to go to witness to a JW and that is not specifically mentioned in Scripture.

We have a generic call to evangelise and make disciples (see Matt 28:18-20 ESV), not a specific word to witness to a JW at the front door.

 

[Jim Parker]

you cannot know the spirit leading you is God without scripture.

I totally agree.
I never said we don't need the scriptures.
In fact, we can't "live" without them!

 

[th1b.taylor]

That's not dealing with my response to what you wrote. It was you who wrote: 'you cannot know the spirit leading you is God without scripture'. The fact is that I can know the Spirit's promptings to go to witness to a JW and that is not specifically mentioned in Scripture.

We have a generic call to evangelise and make disciples (see Matt 28:18-20 ESV), not a specific word to witness to a JW at the front door.

And you are, right now, acting like a lost man loking for a fight. You already quoted the scripture that answers the question.

 

[Free]

The above is a problem. Our faith is NOT based on the historical fact that Jesus rose again, it is based upon the current reality that Jesus rose again!

The difference being that if we base our faith on a historical fact we look at history, but if we based in on a current reality we look to Jesus today!! And it is written, "Today if you hear His voice".

It might be nice and good to know the history but faith in Jesus Christ means hearing from Him today!!!

There is no difference. Our faith is based on the historical fact that Jesus died and rose again. That is why we look to Jesus as the author and finisher of our faith. You are making a distinction which the Bible itself does not make.

And that is the problem brought up in this thread. We are saying "The Bible tells me so" but we should be say "The Lord Jesus Christ tells me so."

What, exactly, is the problem with saying "the Bible tells me so"?

One implies that Jesus rose and sits in some far off place called heaven so we have to study the Bible to find out what He says to us.

Which one implies that and exactly how does it imply that?

 

[OzSpen]

And you are, right now, acting like a lost man loking for a fight. You already quoted the scripture that answers the question.

:woot

 

[K2CHRIST]

I think it is more absurd to have a conversation with God over coffee and donuts. The Presence of the Holy Spirit is always with us. Do we really need a "personal conversation" over coffee and donuts? OR is it just a conversation we conjure up in our own head, thinking it is God talking to us? I would venture it's more of the latter in most cases.

Isaiah wrote hear O heaven, listen O earth, for the Lord speaks (Is 1:2)

Yet you are finding it absurd to have a conversation with God over donuts.

Jesus said He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone would hear His voice He would come into them and eat with them (Rev 3;20)

And you are asking "Do we really need a "personal conversation"

But a conversation with Him is thought to be absurd?

John recorded Jesus saying His sheep hear voice (Jn 10:3) and that the words I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

He did say that are written to you nor that they are ink on paper.

Again Paul explained that the Scriptures kept everyone under sin so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given. (Gal 3:22) and Jesus explained some were looking to the Scriptures instead of Him for eternal life (Jn 5:39) And you are thinking the Scriptures are exactly the same thing as hear the small voice of the Lord speaking to you personally?

I am testifying, and not me only, but those who God used to write the Bible and the Lord Himself that we are supposed to be hearing from the Lord.

Isaiah wrote: "Your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it," whenever you turn tot he right or to the left. (Is 30:21)

And I am trying to explain that is like that. Or as Jesus put it, "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it." and also "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony" (Jn 3: 8,11)

My Lord asks me to read the Bible and has me studying it most days and even where in the Scriptures to open. But it is not about studying the Bible it is about know Him who talks to me. He talks to me over donuts sometimes, and even tells me when He wants me to go to the donut shop. He even helps me with that to order. He often advises me on what clothes to wear. And yes I often hear Him telling me little things like when to turn to the left of right when I drive.

I am trying to explain that there is a personal relationship with Him who is a person with personality that can talk to you. But are you accepting my testimony or trying to defend the Scriptures as being the same as the person that talks to me?

Our faith is based upon Jesus Christ whom we can hear via the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of Christ. It is not based upon the Bible but the Bible was written to explain the above and made sure we are looking to Jesus Christ.

I understand that if a person does not have that type of relationship they will have trouble accepting what I am saying. They might think I am just having conversations with myself in my head. But God is spirit and you pick Him up from inside you. That is why Paul wrote "The Word of God is in our hearts and on our lips." It does not mean that if you memorize Scriptures you have the Word of God in your heart and on you lips, it means Jesus Christ is your Lord as in He gives you instructions that are just for you.

He could tell you to walk up to the Red Sea, but a staff in it and He'll part it, but why. More likely He is going to tell you to go to the donut shop, get a donut, and sit down so He can talk to you while you just sit at His feet.

My friends, if you stop looking so much to the Scriptures, thinking in them you have eternal life, and start looking for the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and friend, you will find Him, and you will find that He talks to you from within you. From in your heart, and from one your lips, of like a voice behind you that talks to you every time you turn to the left or to the right. That is what is explained in the Scriptures. Of course the Spirit of God is not the only spirit out there, so some discernment is needed, but it is written that all those who seek find. So if you look to the Lord Jesus Christ you will find Him. And He is the corner stone that our faith is built on! The same one the builders rejected. They knew the Scriptures also, but reject the Jesus Christ who is alive and active and wants to know you personally. He didn't just leave a book!!!!!

 

[OzSpen]

My friends, if you stop looking so much to the Scriptures, thinking in them you have eternal life, and start looking for the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and friend, you will find Him, and you will find that He talks to you from within you. From in your heart, and from one your lips, of like a voice behind you that talks to you every time you turn to the left or to the right. That is what is explained in the Scriptures. Of course the Spirit of God is not the only spirit out there, so some discernment is needed, but it is written that all those who seek find. So if you look to the Lord Jesus Christ you will find Him. And He is the corner stone that our faith is built on! The same one the builders rejected. They knew the Scriptures also, but reject the Jesus Christ who is alive and active and wants to know you personally. He didn't just leave a book!!!!!

If you don't compare the voice of the Christ within with the real Jesus in Scripture, you will not know if you are being deceived or not.

 

[smaller]

Isaiah wrote hear O heaven, listen O earth, for the Lord speaks (Is 1:2)

Yet you are finding it absurd to have a conversation with God over donuts.

We 'listen' to what we have to 'listen' to. That is the purpose of the Word. The relationship we have we with God is spiritual, by faith. Does that entail God having a conversation with someone over donuts? Probably not. I'd like to think God, when speaking with anyone, would perhaps have some purpose behind such speakings. Having hung around not just a few, but many believers who are where you are was God really talking to them? Absolutely not. How do I know? Because most of them have direct conflicts with His Word. The so called "voice" in their heads was actually a deceiver speaking to them, lying through it's teeth, and very often leading them quite astray. Charismatics are generally known for having all kinds of nonsensical doctrines, all supposedly from God speaking to them by Spirit and Word. But as many others know, they are not hearing whatsoever. It's just a big ball of manipulating deceived liars who think it's God leading them. It's NOT. It's just a bunch of people playing religious games with themselves and each others.

Do I believe God still speaks? ABSOLUTELY. But how would we know? That's the real question. And for that, we turn to the methodologies Gods Word has employed previously. God took His Word "very seriously." IF someone, anyone in Israel even dared to speak "thus says the Lord" and claimed something, and that didn't happen, they were to be stoned to death. That's kind of serious, don't you think? A man in Numbers 35, caught picking up sticks, in defiance of Gods law, working on the sabbath, did so at the cost of his life.

Peter was just as serious, when speaking here:

Acts 3:
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

The short story is this. When we think God is speaking to us, we are to "test" that speaking to His written Word, for accuracy. And particularly when such speakings transpire in a congregational setting.

Jesus said He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone would hear His voice He would come into them and eat with them (Rev 3;20)

And you are asking "Do we really need a "personal conversation"

But a conversation with Him is thought to be absurd?

You picked a great example. We are to listen to every Word spoken to the churches in Rev. 2-3. And it is easily provable that the majority of readers don't listen to every Word. They only listen to things they personally like to hear, and discard the balance. I might be more inclined to believe you if God spoke harsh things to you, and you knew why and knew the purposes of such speakings. But casual chatty talk over coffee and donuts? Probably not.

John recorded Jesus saying His sheep hear voice (Jn 10:3) and that the words I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

He did say that are written to you nor that they are ink on paper.

When any person proposes that Christ speaks to them, they are to "test." That's all there is to the matter. There are particular congregations on earth that propose that God has only spoken to them and through them, through their magisterial arms. These people are obviously just as deceived about their claims.

The lessons in these matters is that there is a very large amount of deception in the body of Christ on earth, over these various claims.

Again Paul explained that the Scriptures kept everyone under sin so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given. (Gal 3:22) and Jesus explained some were looking to the Scriptures instead of Him for eternal life (Jn 5:39) And you are thinking the Scriptures are exactly the same thing as hear the small voice of the Lord speaking to you personally?

And that would be you not listening. I can assure you that indwelling sin and evil present with everyone REMAINS condemned under Gods laws and Gods Actions in Christ. Romans 8:3. And because of this, the flesh is factually opposed to and against the Spirit. Gal. 5:17, Gal. 4:29. But do believers listen to this? NOPE. Not at all. Again, deception is a real operating principle of Gods Words. Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:23, 1 Cor. 15:56, Mark 4:15.

I am testifying, and not me only, but those who God used to write the Bible and the Lord Himself that we are supposed to be hearing from the Lord.

A person who can't hear what we have to hear, perhaps hears nothing more. And that usually turns out to be the case of reality. Any believer who does not recognize that we walk with "active conflict and ever present deceptions" is easily deceived by our adversary.

Probably done over coffee and donuts.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Do I believe God still speaks? ABSOLUTELY. But how would we know? That's the real question

Do you absolutely believe God still speaks, It doesn't sound like you do. You are still asking how you would know.

The answer is that you come to know Him verses your thinking by practicing hearing with your spiritual ears. But you don't think God would tell someone to go to the donut shop in order to sit them in a quiet place friendly place to talk to them. You demonstrate over and over your lack of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as someone who is always with you.

Heb 5:11 Concerning him we have mut to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.... But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their sense trained to discern good from evil.

You think that you can study the Bible and have discernment of spirits. So you don't daily have things God says to you and can't understand how that is possible. So you can read over and over again "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HAREN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME." but can not understand that today is the day you will hear from Him who said He would never leave you. (Heb 3:7, Heb 3:14, Heb 4:7)

You might even be able to read "Your ears will hear a word behind you, 'This is the way, walk in it,' whenever you turn to the right or to the left", but you can't comprehend it, because you scoff at the very idea of actually hearing from the Lord daily and regularly. (Is 30:21) So if you read "For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen to the instructions of the Lord" you have to change it quickly in your head to think it mean 'refuse to read" instead of refuse to listen.

You say you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, but He is a book not a person that He should walk and talk with you. So you recognize the importance written in the Book about hearing from the Lord but you do not enter in.

Isaiah 30:10 Who say to the seers, "You must not see visions"; And to the prophets, "You must not prophesy to us what is right"

The right thing to do is to seek the voice of the Lord daily by faith and listen to what He has to personally tell you. He will tell you to read your Bible and even where to read on what days. He will also talk to you about all parts of your life. He will talk to you about your sons soccer games, your wife's needs, and the best way to run your business. And He might just ask you to go get a donut and eat with Him while He talks to you, because He really does love you and loves spending time talking to you. But you would really and truly have to have a personal relationship with Him, and not just give it lip service.

Jer 1:8 "The priest did not say, 'Where is the Lord?' And those who handle the law did not know Me;

Jer 23:23 "Am I a God who is near" declares the Lord, "And not a God far off?"

Is 5:9... Keep on listening, but do not perceive; Keep on looking, but do not understand

Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.



Once upon a time there was a town called Two because it had two people in the town. Now two miles away there was another town, called Too because it too had two people in the town. Now the two judges in the land came to Two and went to Too too because they wanted to judge whether Two or Too should be required to change their name. The judges decided to hold court at two in Too in two days.

So, in two days the two judges with the two of Two travel the two miles to Too. So at two in Too the two judges and the two of Too and the two of Two too held the hearing,

Of course it didn’t take but two minutes to decide that since neither of the two towns had the same name there was nothing that could be done. So at two after two both the two of Too and the two of Two hugged the two judges because the two of Too and the two of Two loved the names of Two and Too too.

 

[smaller]

Do you absolutely believe God still speaks, It doesn't sound like you do. You are still asking how you would know.

God does speak. Exactly as His Word proposes. Actively so. Does that mean then we need to hear conversations in our heads, proposing to be God speaking. Nope.

The answer is that you come to know Him verses your thinking by practicing hearing with your spiritual ears. But you don't think God would tell someone to go to the donut shop in order to sit them in a quiet place friendly place to talk to them. You demonstrate over and over your lack of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as someone who is always with you.

I reason with God all the time. Where does He answer? From His Words.

Heb 5:11 Concerning him we have mut to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.... But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their sense trained to discern good from evil.

Now yer gettin it! Senses do speak. Are these voices in our heads from God? No. Our hearts are moved by our senses, one way or the other. I distrust voices in my head, when they propose to be God speaking.

You think that you can study the Bible and have discernment of spirits.

I've walked into a setting and pinpointed a murderer, by the hair on my neck and arms standing up. IN a crowd of over 100 people. A person I'd never seen in my life. Sitting at a picnic table doing nothing but sitting there. Ask me if I have discernment? Did God speak to me? Uh huh. Was it a voice from God in my head? NOPE. Said the same thing to my wife. Ask me if she has discernment? Was it a voice in her head from God? NOPE. Was that person a "convicted" murderer? Nope. We found out about it later. But we already knew it. We never told anyone but we both knew and discussed it after. The same guy was at another event some time later that two of my daughters attended. Guess what? Same thing. And neither of them knew the guy from Adam either. Ask me if they have discernment? Did God speak to them in an audible voice? NOPE.

So you don't daily have things God says to you and can't understand how that is possible. So you can read over and over again "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HAREN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME." but can not understand that today is the day you will hear from Him who said He would never leave you. (Heb 3:7, Heb 3:14, Heb 4:7)

And that would be only YOU thinking that means we have to hear audible voice in our heads claiming to be the Word of God, speaking. I have heard from God in the way you propose a few times in my life. But I still had to have it "proven" to me before I accepted it. And it was. The speaking was only for my benefit, and I could not have changed what happened in any of the cases. Most of what we deal with is simple discernment, that anyone can and will experience. But voices in our heads claiming to be conversations with God have to be held to account in any case of speakings. And that accounting is what we have in writing to account with.

You might even be able to read "Your ears will hear a word behind you, 'This is the way, walk in it,' whenever you turn to the right or to the left", but you can't comprehend it, because you scoff at the very idea of actually hearing from the Lord daily and regularly. (Is 30:21) So if you read "For this is a rebellious people, false sons, Sons who refuse to listen to the instructions of the Lord" you have to change it quickly in your head to think it mean 'refuse to read" instead of refuse to listen.

I might scoff at coffee and donuts without some intentions behind it.

You say you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, but He is a book not a person that He should walk and talk with you.

IF I believe that Christ is "in me" by faith, by His Spirit. Which I do. THEN I expect His Order is upon every step in one way or another. I don't necessarily need an 'audible voice.' He is simply with me in everything, period. And yeah, if I do hear anything I do pay attentions. Because there is a REASON for it. But I refuse to take imaginary conversations, random thoughts, as such speakings. There simply is no point in going there.

So you recognize the importance written in the Book about hearing from the Lord but you do not enter in.

Had I not seen this entire arena so sorely abused I might feel differently about it. Many believers that I know who went into this type of imaginary arrangement I've seen have their lives wrecked by deceptions.

Isaiah 30:10 Who say to the seers, "You must not see visions"; And to the prophets, "You must not prophesy to us what is right"

The right thing to do is to seek the voice of the Lord daily by faith and listen to what He has to personally tell you. He will tell you to read your Bible and even where to read on what days. He will also talk to you about all parts of your life. He will talk to you about your sons soccer games, your wife's needs, and the best way to run your business. And He might just ask you to go get a donut and eat with Him while He talks to you, because He really does love you and loves spending time talking to you. But you would really and truly have to have a personal relationship with Him, and not just give it lip service.

IF I'm living in His Love, which I do, I have all the directions needed. No voices required. No manipulating required. Life works.

Jer 1:8 "The priest did not say, 'Where is the Lord?' And those who handle the law did not know Me;

Jer 23:23 "Am I a God who is near" declares the Lord, "And not a God far off?"

Is 5:9... Keep on listening, but do not perceive; Keep on looking, but do not understand

Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.

One thing I know about "deceptions" and God really speaking. Believers or prophets who only speak smooth words are in fact LIARS and DECEIVERS, as are the people who only want to hear those smooth words. Isaiah 30:10. So, there is a measure for us to understand Gods REAL cadence, when He speaks. Such speakings are going to come in His Standard TWO EDGED SWORD methodology. That is part of how we know it's legit.

Once upon a time there was a town called Two because it had two people in the town. Now two miles away there was another town, called Too because it too had two people in the town. Now the two judges in the land came to Two and went to Too too because they wanted to judge whether Two or Too should be required to change their name. The judges decided to hold court at two in Too in two days.

So, in two days the two judges with the two of Two travel the two miles to Too. So at two in Too the two judges and the two of Too and the two of Two too held the hearing,

Of course it didn’t take but two minutes to decide that since neither of the two towns had the same name there was nothing that could be done. So at two after two both the two of Too and the two of Two hugged the two judges because the two of Too and the two of Two loved the names of Two and Too too.

I know two, too well. Didn't even read the above until after I noted the TWO EDGED SWORD. Musta saw it coming.

And, if you think you heard all that from God, I'd suggest it was pointless drivel, masquerading. A great example of the not so good kind though. So thanks. Figured it would show up at some point.

 

[smaller]

Here is a simple lesson about "how" God speaks.

He is for good. He is against evil. We all walk with both of those shoes, one on one foot and one on the other.

Now, go and live your life in reality. See how it walks out. Fairly simple. And if someone says, I only have two good shoes on, particularly if they say Gods Word or Spirit told them that, they are deceived. Not your problem. God isn't fooled by two shiny shoes. He might ever prefer we walk "honestly." Imagine that?

Romans 13:13
Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

 

[OzSpen]

Do you absolutely believe God still speaks, It doesn't sound like you do. You are still asking how you would know.

The answer is that you come to know Him verses your thinking by practicing hearing with your spiritual ears. But you don't think God would tell someone to go to the donut shop in order to sit them in a quiet place friendly place to talk to them. You demonstrate over and over your lack of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as someone who is always with you.

You still avoid dealing with the issue I raise with you: If you don't compare the voice of the Christ within with the real Jesus in Scripture, you will not know if you are being deceived or not.

 

[Jim Parker]

Our faith is NOT based on the historical fact that Jesus rose again, it is based upon the current reality that Jesus rose again!

There would be no such "current reality" (whatever that means) if it were not for the "historic fact."

 

[OzSpen]

You have subjected every one of these scriptures to your personal preferances and the Holy Spirit in me just screams, Satan!

Are you calling Jim Parker's posts the work of Satan?

 

[K2CHRIST]

There would be no such "current reality" (whatever that means) if it were not for the "historic fact."

The fact is there would be no current reality or "historical fact" (whatever that means) if not for the Christ as the Word of God!! All things were created through Him!!

 

[K2CHRIST]

You still avoid dealing with the issue I raise with you: If you don't compare the voice of the Christ within with the real Jesus in Scripture, you will not know if you are being deceived or not.

The quote from me was to smaller not you! I'm sorry that I did not have time to deal with all the responses. But let me take this one for you:

Jesus is called the Word of God in the Scriptures! That is His hame!!! (Rev 19:13)

He is called that because the words of God belong to Him (Jn 116:15 All things the Father has are Mine) That would include the words of God.

So He was the One who came and spoke to those people who wrote the Bible. So they would write, "The word of the lord came to me saying" Gen 15:1... the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying...

Now a word does speak, but is something spoken. So "the word of the Lord" was the name of the One who came to Abram saying .

Now the Scriptures are a written record (a book) of what happened. The record is important to us, but the record is not the One who spoke to Abram, it is only a record of the event.

Our faith is not based on the record, our faith is based upon the One who speaks whose name is called the Word of God but who we call Jesus Christ because He is our salvation. But we write, "because the Bible says" when we should be writing, "because our Lord Jesus Christ says".

Then we say the Bible is what our faith is based on, when our faith is based on Jesus Christ. And we love to call the Bible the Word of God, because we read it and try to follow the record. But Jesus Christ will talk to us personally, just like we see He talked to Abram.

And we start saying silly things like the Bible is alive, when the Bible is a written record that God had written to explain that Jesus Christ as the Word of God is alive and active. So we by calling both Jesus Christ and the Bible by the same name (The Word of God) we have caused confusion!!

People are now saying the Bible saves, the Bible heals, the Bible is alive, the Bible is what our faith is based one, and flatly state they are going to follow the Bible. Which is ironic but the Bible explains that Jesus Christ is our savior, that Jesus Christ performs signs and wonders, that Jesus Christ is alive, that Jesus Christ is the corner stone of our faith (whom the builders rejected), that Jesus Christ is who we are supposed to be following and He said the He leads us out with His voice not with His writings.

This thread started with an attachment that has one person stating that perhaps we could have morality without all the Bible, Another person is quoted in the attachment as saying we could have morality without any of the Bible, and then another person (an the theme of this thread) was that we have to have the Bible to have morality. The fact is the Christians have had the Bible for almost two thousands years, and some Scriptures long before that, but that did not make them moral.

My friends, you can not have morality (righteousness) without Jesus Christ as the Word of God in your life!! You have to be listening to Him to know what is right and wrong. Jesus said, "if you being evil..." We might be able to pick out a good gift, but we are evil self centered people who are not in a position of truly knowing what is right or wrong. So we need a personal relationship Jesus Christ as the Word of God meaning we need to being listening to what He has to say to us everyday which is called "Today. Leaning on our understanding of the Bible is not going to get it done, but listening with our spiritual ears by faith to what our Lord has to say to us does!!!

So there is a big, massive difference between Christ speaking to Abram and Christ speaking to you. The difference is a personal relationship with God verse not having a personal relationship with God!!

Read a book that someone (anyone) wrote does may tell you a lot about that person but it does not give you a personal relationship with them!! If you don't believe that try reading any book then going over to the authors house a trying telling them you are a personal friend of theirs because you read their book. They will think you crazy and not let you into their house.

In the same way Jesus on that day is going to tell many people who cast out demons in His name, healed the sick in His name, and even prophesied in His name, that He never knew them. Those people knew about Him, They must have read the Scriptures and depended on the Scriptures, but He never knew them and will be cast out to a place they never thought they would be in.

As for me: He tells me personally that He loves me. I hear that from Him. He calls me His friend. He tells me that. He tells me lots of things everyday. He goes of the Scriptures with me, but my life with Him is not limited to that. I have a personal relationship with Him, and I want that for others so I try to explain it, but who will listen?

Yes, there is an incredible difference between knowing the Lord and knowing the Scriptures, and those people that wrote the Scriptures were trying to explain that! That is why Paul wrote "the Scriptures has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. (Gal 3:22) It is why Jesus told the Jews, "if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me' (Jn 5:47)

So seek the Lord Jesus Christ like those that wrote the Scriptures were telling you!!!

 

[K2CHRIST]

Here is a simple lesson about "how" God speaks.

He is for good. He is against evil. We all walk with both of those shoes, one on one foot and one on the other.

Now, go and live your life in reality. See how it walks out. Fairly simple. And if someone says, I only have two good shoes on, particularly if they say Gods Word or Spirit told them that, they are deceived. Not your problem. God isn't fooled by two shiny shoes. He might ever prefer we walk "honestly." Imagine that?

Romans 13:13
Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.

This is funny. You who think God wouldn't tell someone to take a walk with Him to the donut shop with Him, is going to tell me what God thinks and how He speaks?

I think it is great that you read your Bible. That was the first things I heard the Lord tell me to do. But it is obvious that you are missing out on something. So you write that He is for good and against evil, because you saw that in the Bible, but missed the fact that only God is good, otherwise you would seek His voice daily and would be telling others to do the same because that is what you would be doing.

So you consider yourself an expert on Him and how He thinks. And that is what is really funny and gives you away. The fact is the more you get to personally know God the more you understand there is truly know way to know the depts. of God.

Paul put is this way, "If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know" (1 Cor 8:2)

So our main purpose is not to tell people all about Jesus Christ, but rather we are trying to tell them about Jesus Christ: that He really does exist so they can actually get to know Him personally. And it is obvious by what you write that you don't believe that is possible.

Anyway, I have to get moving. He had gotten me up early this morning because He asked me to make a few posts. But few minutes ago He told me He was about to talk me on a walk so we could talk. It's always harder to hear from Him when I am conversing with others. No donut shop for me today though. He was clear about that. He reminded me of the big meal my wife and I had with another Christian couple last night. They are like me, and my wife also, in that they too claim to hear from the Lord daily about allsorts of things in their life. We meet at the same big Christian church. You know the type. You mention that you have meet people like us. You often do run into them at Christian churches.

 

[smaller]

This is funny. You who think God wouldn't tell someone to take a walk with Him to the donut shop with Him, is going to tell me what God thinks and how He speaks?

Everyone is entitled to their imaginations. If you think it's God talking, so be it. There really isn't any way to prove it though is there?

I think it is great that you read your Bible. That was the first things I heard the Lord tell me to do. But it is obvious that you are missing out on something. So you write that He is for good and against evil, because you saw that in the Bible, but missed the fact that only God is good, otherwise you would seek His voice daily and would be telling others to do the same because that is what you would be doing.

Yeah, well, people who try to insulate God from "using and deploying" evil aren't my favorite theological companions, that's a certainty. I take Deut. 30:15, Isaiah 45:7, Isaiah 66:4 as seriously as possible when observing our Maker.

So, if there is a voice in your head telling you it's God speaking, I have no doubt that God granted that to you. What it might be though would remain subject to questioning in any case. Not everything that goes on in our heads is "only true." Romans 7:7-13 IS a reality for all.

So you consider yourself an expert on Him and how He thinks. And that is what is really funny and gives you away. The fact is the more you get to personally know God the more you understand there is truly know way to know the depts. of God.

No, but I would hold any voice in my head to account from Gods written Word. In fact I might even say we have massive amounts of real written Word of God to deal with already, without having to deal with voices in our heads claiming to be same. Remember, I've hung out with thousands of people who claim voices in their heads as God speaking to them, constantly. These are the folks of pentacostalism/charismania. I found them to be zealous for God, but also quite deceived in every case. Particularly when it came to the voices in their heads claiming to be God telling them things.

Paul put is this way, "If anyone supposes that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know" (1 Cor 8:2)

So our main purpose is not to tell people all about Jesus Christ, but rather we are trying to tell them about Jesus Christ: that He really does exist so they can actually get to know Him personally. And it is obvious by what you write that you don't believe that is possible.

IF you're proposing that the introduction/witnessing/making disciples of Christ means having a voice in our heads telling us it's Jesus speaking? No, I'd never make that kind of witness of Christ to anyone nor would I consider it a 'truthful' witness.

Anyway, I have to get moving. He had gotten me up early this morning because He asked me to make a few posts. But few minutes ago He told me He was about to talk me on a walk so we could talk. It's always harder to hear from Him when I am conversing with others. No donut shop for me today though. He was clear about that. He reminded me of the big meal my wife and I had with another Christian couple last night. They are like me, and my wife also, in that they too claim to hear from the Lord daily about allsorts of things in their life. We meet at the same big Christian church. You know the type. You mention that you have meet people like us. You often do run into them at Christian churches.

I can only imagine. I will say that charismania was entertaining, in a twisted sort of way. Getting together with a couple thousand people, all with God talking to everyone of them simultaneously, you never knew what was going to happen.

As the preachers used to say, "let all things be done decently and in order" from 1 Cor. 14:40 really means "let all things be done." May the holy laughter come upon you.

 

[OzSpen]

The quote from me was to smaller not you! I'm sorry that I did not have time to deal with all the responses. But let me take this one for you:

Jesus is called the Word of God in the Scriptures! That is His hame!!! (Rev 19:13)

He is called that because the words of God belong to Him (Jn 116:15 All things the Father has are Mine) That would include the words of God.

So He was the One who came and spoke to those people who wrote the Bible. So they would write, "The word of the lord came to me saying" Gen 15:1... the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying...

Now a word does speak, but is something spoken. So "the word of the Lord" was the name of the One who came to Abram saying .

Now the Scriptures are a written record (a book) of what happened. The record is important to us, but the record is not the One who spoke to Abram, it is only a record of the event.

Our faith is not based on the record, our faith is based upon the One who speaks whose name is called the Word of God but who we call Jesus Christ because He is our salvation. But we write, "because the Bible says" when we should be writing, "because our Lord Jesus Christ says".

Then we say the Bible is what our faith is based on, when our faith is based on Jesus Christ. And we love to call the Bible the Word of God, because we read it and try to follow the record. But Jesus Christ will talk to us personally, just like we see He talked to Abram.

And we start saying silly things like the Bible is alive, when the Bible is a written record that God had written to explain that Jesus Christ as the Word of God is alive and active. So we by calling both Jesus Christ and the Bible by the same name (The Word of God) we have caused confusion!!

People are now saying the Bible saves, the Bible heals, the Bible is alive, the Bible is what our faith is based one, and flatly state they are going to follow the Bible. Which is ironic but the Bible explains that Jesus Christ is our savior, that Jesus Christ performs signs and wonders, that Jesus Christ is alive, that Jesus Christ is the corner stone of our faith (whom the builders rejected), that Jesus Christ is who we are supposed to be following and He said the He leads us out with His voice not with His writings.

This thread started with an attachment that has one person stating that perhaps we could have morality without all the Bible, Another person is quoted in the attachment as saying we could have morality without any of the Bible, and then another person (an the theme of this thread) was that we have to have the Bible to have morality. The fact is the Christians have had the Bible for almost two thousands years, and some Scriptures long before that, but that did not make them moral.

My friends, you can not have morality (righteousness) without Jesus Christ as the Word of God in your life!! You have to be listening to Him to know what is right and wrong. Jesus said, "if you being evil..." We might be able to pick out a good gift, but we are evil self centered people who are not in a position of truly knowing what is right or wrong. So we need a personal relationship Jesus Christ as the Word of God meaning we need to being listening to what He has to say to us everyday which is called "Today. Leaning on our understanding of the Bible is not going to get it done, but listening with our spiritual ears by faith to what our Lord has to say to us does!!!

So there is a big, massive difference between Christ speaking to Abram and Christ speaking to you. The difference is a personal relationship with God verse not having a personal relationship with God!!

Read a book that someone (anyone) wrote does may tell you a lot about that person but it does not give you a personal relationship with them!! If you don't believe that try reading any book then going over to the authors house a trying telling them you are a personal friend of theirs because you read their book. They will think you crazy and not let you into their house.

In the same way Jesus on that day is going to tell many people who cast out demons in His name, healed the sick in His name, and even prophesied in His name, that He never knew them. Those people knew about Him, They must have read the Scriptures and depended on the Scriptures, but He never knew them and will be cast out to a place they never thought they would be in.

As for me: He tells me personally that He loves me. I hear that from Him. He calls me His friend. He tells me that. He tells me lots of things everyday. He goes of the Scriptures with me, but my life with Him is not limited to that. I have a personal relationship with Him, and I want that for others so I try to explain it, but who will listen?

Yes, there is an incredible difference between knowing the Lord and knowing the Scriptures, and those people that wrote the Scriptures were trying to explain that! That is why Paul wrote "the Scriptures has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. (Gal 3:22) It is why Jesus told the Jews, "if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me' (Jn 5:47)

So seek the Lord Jesus Christ like those that wrote the Scriptures were telling you!!!

You continue your avoidance.

You stated:

The fact is the Christians have had the Bible for almost two thousands years, and some Scriptures long before that, but that did not make them moral.

You miss a fundamental. Without the foundation of the 10 commandments and other commands regarding morality, the Western world (based on Christianity) would be a shambles like other nations that do not rely on the moral foundation of Christianity.

Try taking a visit to the red light district of Calcutta, India, the Congo, and Haiti and you'll see the moral difference between those countries and the USA, Western Europe, Australia, etc.

Oz

 

[Jim Parker]

Jesus is called the Word of God in the Scriptures! That is His hame!!! (Rev 19:13)
He is called that because the words of God belong to Him

That is incorrect.
Jesus is called the "LOGOS" of God. "LOGOS" is, unfortunately, translated into English as "word" and readers of English translations who have no understanding of the significance of the Greek word, "LOGOS" regularly and erroneously assume that it means words on a page. That is a total misunderstanding.
The Greek word "LOGOS" carries the understanding of that which is the first cause of all being. It has nothing to do with words.

iakov the fool