The Black Horse Will Soon Start Its Ride...

[LOTS Creed]

The Black Horse Will Soon Start Its Ride...

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LOTS Creed

 

[miamited]

Hi LOTS Creed,

For the record, my understanding is that the black horse has been riding roughshod for about 2,000 years now.

God bless,
Ted

 

[dwb001]

Hi LOTS Creed,

For the record, my understanding is that the black horse has been riding roughshod for about 2,000 years now.

God bless,
Ted

There is a statement that needs some backing up.
Proof that for the last 2000 years a loaf of bread has cost a days wages.

 

[miamited]

There is a statement that needs some backing up.
Proof that for the last 2000 years a loaf of bread has cost a days wages.

As is often true with the Scriptures, when God speaks He speaks in ways that we often don't understand, at least right away. Otherwise everyone in Israel would have recognized Jesus was the Messiah lying in that manger in Bethlehem.

I say that just to say that the words...“Two pounds of wheat for a day’s wages, and six pounds of barley for a day’s wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!” is likely just telling us that there will be inflationary times and that we will hold the 'oil and the wine' in very high regard as to their value to us. However, and we stuffed shirt Americans are so often guilty, there are some places in the world where a loaf of bread can easily cost a days wages and those places have also been around for centuries.

So, if you're going to wait until a loaf of bread is $300 and a day's wage is $300 (because that's the way it is in America) to say that the black horse has been released, I think you're missing the message.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Hi dwb001

Consider this: the rider of the second horse was sent to make people kill each other and take peace from the earth.
The third rider we find a horseman who is going around proclaiming that prices are going to climb and we want to protect the oil and wine. The rider of the fourth horse is given power over plagues and famine and power to kill 1/4 of the inhabitants of the earth with the sword.

All that has been going on since John saw the vision of the opening of the seals, which he wrote to us about when he was taken up to heaven and Jesus' angel showed him all these things about to take place. These horsemen have been roaming about the earth, along with the white horse's rider, since shortly after Jesus ascended into heaven...as I understand the writing of the Scriptures.

God bless,
Ted

 

[dwb001]

Hi dwb001

Consider this: the rider of the second horse was sent to make people kill each other and take peace from the earth.
The third rider we find a horseman who is going around proclaiming that prices are going to climb and we want to protect the oil and wine. The rider of the fourth horse is given power over plagues and famine and power to kill 1/4 of the inhabitants of the earth with the sword.

All that has been going on since John saw the vision of the opening of the seals, which he wrote to us about when he was taken up to heaven and Jesus' angel showed him all these things about to take place. These horsemen have been roaming about the earth, along with the white horse's rider, since shortly after Jesus ascended into heaven...as I understand the writing of the Scriptures.

God bless,
Ted

See this is where you misinterpret Revelation.
Where does the fourth (and fifth) rider kill 1/4 of the inhabitants of the earth with the sword?
Are there not four methods of death described in Rev 6:8?
And where do you get 1/4 of the inhabitants? The proper word for Earth in Rev 6:8 is translated as "soil, earth, land, ground, country...". So "1/4 of the earth" would better be translated as "1/4 of the earth's landmass".

These horsemen were roaming around Earth? Then why are they in Heaven. If they are on Earth... then why are they just getting their marching orders in Heaven when the Lamb is opening the Seals?

Where does your understanding of Scriptures(very vague) reference the horsemen roaming the earth since Jesus ascended? Chapter and Verse please.

 

[miamited]

HI dwb001

Where does the fourth (and fifth) rider kill 1/4 of the inhabitants of the earth with the sword?

I'm not sure what you're asking as 'where', but I'm going with you want to know where I read that in the Scriptures. "They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

Now I only wrote the word sword in my explanation, but yes, this is the passage that I was referring to and yes, to be specifically correct I should have made it more clear and simple.

And where do you get 1/4 of the inhabitants? The proper word for Earth in Rev 6:8 is translated as "soil, earth, land, ground, country...". So "1/4 of the earth" would better be translated as "1/4 of the earth's landmass".

So you understand that God is going to allow this rider to destroy dirt with famine and plagues. Ok. I guess we'll see how that works out.

These horsemen were roaming around Earth? Then why are they in Heaven. If they are on Earth... then why are they just getting their marching orders in Heaven when the Lamb is opening the Seals?

yes, for the last 2,000 years or so. Who says that they are now in heaven. I didn't. Who says they are just now getting their marching orders? I didn't. My understanding is that Jesus began opening the seals of the great scroll of his Father's judgment pretty much as soon as his work of salvation was done. The horses and riders have been released for almost 2000 years now.

Where does your understanding of Scriptures(very vague) reference the horsemen roaming the earth since Jesus ascended?

As is often true with the Scriptures, when God speaks He speaks in ways that we often don't understand, at least right away. Otherwise everyone in Israel would have recognized Jesus was the Messiah lying in that manger in Bethlehem.

John is giving us an account of being actually present in the throne room of God. He tells of everyone weeping and searching for one who could make things right but there wasn't anyone to be found. Then Lo! There before him was standing before the throne a lamb? looking as if he had been slain. And the angel declared, "The Lion of Judah!! He can open the seals of the scroll!!"

And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,

When would Jesus have been declared worthy to open the seals of the scroll? When would Jesus have looked like a slain lamb? My understanding is that this event that John is writing down for us was happening in heaven as a fairly current event to the day in which he was writing it.

None of what is written in chapter five give any indication that the events are not current. There doesn't seem to be anything to say, "This is going to happen a long, long time from now."

Now, I understand that there is a lot of discussion on this topic and that the "Left Behind" series has colored a lot of people's understanding. But I've now for quite a while been convicted, and I've prayed and studied about it, that Jesus began ripping those seals off the scroll shortly after he ascended into heaven, but it's a task that, to us, is taking thousands of years to complete.

Then I look around the earth and I see that all of these very things do seem to be happening. How could that be if they're not supposed to be happening until sometime in the future when Jesus unseals the scroll? Why are men now dying of the sword, famine, disease, plague and wild animals?

God bless,
Ted

 

[dwb001]

HI dwb001

I'm not sure what you're asking as 'where', but I'm going with you want to know where I read that in the Scriptures. "They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth."

Now I only wrote the word sword in my explanation, but yes, this is the passage that I was referring to and yes, to be specifically correct I should have made it more clear and simple.


So you understand that God is going to allow this rider to destroy dirt with famine and plagues. Ok. I guess we'll see how that works out.




yes, for the last 2,000 years or so. Who says that they are now in heaven. I didn't. Who says they are just now getting their marching orders? I didn't. My understanding is that Jesus began opening the seals of the great scroll of his Father's judgment pretty much as soon as his work of salvation was done. The horses and riders have been released for almost 2000 years now.


As is often true with the Scriptures, when God speaks He speaks in ways that we often don't understand, at least right away. Otherwise everyone in Israel would have recognized Jesus was the Messiah lying in that manger in Bethlehem.

John is giving us an account of being actually present in the throne room of God. He tells of everyone weeping and searching for one who could make things right but there wasn't anyone to be found. Then Lo! There before him was standing before the throne a lamb? looking as if he had been slain. And the angel declared, "The Lion of Judah!! He can open the seals of the scroll!!"

And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,

When would Jesus have been declared worthy to open the seals of the scroll? When would Jesus have looked like a slain lamb? My understanding is that this event that John is writing down for us was happening in heaven as a fairly current event to the day in which he was writing it.

None of what is written in chapter five give any indication that the events are not current. There doesn't seem to be anything to say, "This is going to happen a long, long time from now."

Now, I understand that there is a lot of discussion on this topic and that the "Left Behind" series has colored a lot of people's understanding. But I've now for quite a while been convicted, and I've prayed and studied about it, that Jesus began ripping those seals off the scroll shortly after he ascended into heaven, but it's a task that, to us, is taking thousands of years to complete.

Then I look around the earth and I see that all of these very things do seem to be happening. How could that be if they're not supposed to be happening until sometime in the future when Jesus unseals the scroll? Why are men now dying of the sword, famine, disease, plague and wild animals?

God bless,
Ted

So much isegesis in this post.
I find your reference to the rider killing dirt to be a childish attempt at deflection.
If you don't understand how power over a landmass is different from power over people... then I can't help you.
The text of Revelation answers your next few paragraphs of questions.
If the horses have been out of the barn for 2000 years then the killing of 1/4 of the earth is a nonsensical statement.
Jesus ripping the seals off 200 years ago is just your feelings(according to your own words). So why should I rely on your feelings?
Because a specific event is written down(the fourth and fifth horsemen) then for it to be future events... all death on the planet must cease?
Why could not the severity and scope of the destruction be notable to mention as a future event? Just because it happens now(to a greater or lesser degree) doesn't mean that the text isn't referring to a specific future event.

 

[miamited]

So much isegesis in this post.
I find your reference to the rider killing dirt to be a childish attempt at deflection.
If you don't understand how power over a landmass is different from power over people... then I can't help you.
The text of Revelation answers your next few paragraphs of questions.
If the horses have been out of the barn for 2000 years then the killing of 1/4 of the earth is a nonsensical statement.
Jesus ripping the seals off 200 years ago is just your feelings(according to your own words). So why should I rely on your feelings?
Because a specific event is written down(the fourth and fifth horsemen) then for it to be future events... all death on the planet must cease?
Why could not the severity and scope of the destruction be notable to mention as a future event? Just because it happens now(to a greater or lesser degree) doesn't mean that the text isn't referring to a specific future event.

HI dwb001

Oh, you don't have to. What you believe about the Scriptures is up to you, but I'm just saying that there is certainly a different way to understand what John is telling us as far as the 'time' when these events are happening. So we are left to try and figure it out. I'm saying that from many of the 'clues of context' in the writing, I find it very likely that the seals have already started to be removed.

However,

And where do you get 1/4 of the inhabitants? The proper word for Earth in Rev 6:8 is translated as "soil, earth, land, ground, country...". So "1/4 of the earth" would better be translated as "1/4 of the earth's landmass".

Ok, so your position is that there will be a specific quarter of the earth's landmass where these things will be happening. What's going on in the rest of the world? Just everything moving along as normal? I'm sure there will be flight restrictions posted to warn people not to go to those places, right?

God bless,
Ted

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

For the record: Here are some other source references that understand the 'fourth of the earth' as the population.

From bibleref.com:
Death and Hades, the unseen world, follow this fourth rider, claiming its victims. The damage this rider causes is staggering. One fourth of the world's population die in this judgment.

From knowing-jesus.com:
No-one is exempt from the icy fingers of Death or Hades - the place of the dead. Shockingly, a quarter of the population of the earth will be slaughtered as the floodgate of evil is unloosed.

From theberean.org:
The final actor of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse bears the name of "Death" and rides on a horse the color of "deathly ghastliness," as one commentator aptly describes it. He efficiently sweeps up and disposes of what his fellows leave behind, in the final tally ending the lives of up to a quarter of the earth's population.

God bless,
Ted

 

[dwb001]

For the record: Here are some other source references that understand the 'fourth of the earth' as the population.

From bibleref.com:
Death and Hades, the unseen world, follow this fourth rider, claiming its victims. The damage this rider causes is staggering. One fourth of the world's population die in this judgment.

From knowing-jesus.com:
No-one is exempt from the icy fingers of Death or Hades - the place of the dead. Shockingly, a quarter of the population of the earth will be slaughtered as the floodgate of evil is unloosed.

From theberean.org:
The final actor of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse bears the name of "Death" and rides on a horse the color of "deathly ghastliness," as one commentator aptly describes it. He efficiently sweeps up and disposes of what his fellows leave behind, in the final tally ending the lives of up to a quarter of the earth's population.

God bless,
Ted

And I think all these references are possibly in error.
Just because many people say something does not make it true.
There are at least 2-3 different ways to read this passage other than 25% of the humans on the earth.

If the 25% of the landmass was to include China and India and power was given to the horsemen to kill 100% of the population in that 25% of the landmass... the death toll would be much higher than 2 billion(25% pop of Earth). What if the 25% included Antarctica... the numbers would be underwhelming.

If we read the passage as written... "...power was given to them over the fourth part of the earth..." how could it be understood.

As the Greek word for earth is land(not peoples) then 25% of the landmass of the Earth is a possible reading.
Or is it 1,2,3, 4th part of the Earth? A place on Earth that could be identified as separate from 1,2 or 3.
And the classic view of 25% of the earth meaning the peoples.

So thanks for the background for one of the views of this passage... there are other views and they might be worth exploring.

 

[Blade]

Hi there's no Antichrist in the world yet. Billions of people and then the earth with all this.. yeah not yet.

 

[dwb001]

Hi there's no Antichrist in the world yet. Billions of people and then the earth with all this.. yeah not yet.

And when in Revelation does the Anti-Christ appear?
Is it before or after the horsemen?
Or do you blend the seals, bowls, trumpets together?
How long would it take for the AC to be revealed?
A decade? Month? Day? or does the AC just need to do one action?
Just because the AC hasn't done anything noteworthy doesn't mean he isn't here.

 

[for_his_glory]

Just my understanding.

Black horse is a symbol of famine as the rider holds a pair of balances in his hands causing much famine in the world as many will not be able to afford to buy food and eventually starve to death unless they reach out to the beast out of the earth, Rev 13; 1 Kings 8:37-43; Romans 8:34.

John hears a voice that comes out of the midst of the four creatures in heaven describing what it will take to be able to buy a measure of food as many will not be able to afford a days wage in order to feed for their families unless they prepare ahead of time. God is speaking to us to be prepared for when this time of sorrow is increased during the end of days that we put God first before all things as God will supply our need, Philippians 4:19; 1 Kings Chapter 17.

Famine always follows after conquest of war when a Nation or a people is conquered and overtaken by a governed ruling power that follows after the ways of Balaam forsaking that of the way of the Lord and love the wages of unrighteousness, 2 Peter 2:15; Ezekiel 14:13 as we will see in a New World Order and it’s one world government that is even now being set up. The spoils of conquest and conquering often denotes possession of another’s property by looting and stealing causing one to be left with absolutely nothing. This is what this corrupt government will do as they will take out of the hands of the people what they need the most to sustain life.

The rider on this black horse is an antichrist governing authority revived from the old Babylonian nation that places great economic stumbling blocks in the economy. They will control all shipping, trading and distribution of merchandise around the world expediting exuberant prices on everything causing great economic disaster to the middle and lower class of people.

We rely on farmers for most of our food and truckers to deliver that food to market. When prices escalate, especially with fuel, this shuts down our source of food as the farmers will no longer be able to produce the food we need and the truckers will no longer be able to afford fuel to deliver food to market.

A penny for a quart of wheat and three quarts of barley is symbolic of what would be a days wage for many people in order to feed their families. With the economy crumbling many businesses will be forced into bankruptcy causing massive unemployment. Without jobs this will cause great famine to every family that will not be able to afford food. This is why it is so imperative to have faith and trust in the Lord who will provide during times of famine, 1 Kings Chapter 17, Philippians 4:19.

The oil and wine is not to be harmed as many true Christians that are monetarily rich at this time will be able to afford to buy and share with those who have not as God will use them to supply others needs during this time of great famine, Matthew 25:35; Philippians 4:19.

To the monetarily rich that are not in Christ oil and wine is a luxury to the rich who will be able to afford the price, but will end up being there own downfall as he claims he is rich and increased in goods and has no need of anything as their wealth has become an idol they bow down to as their god. What they do not realize is that their spirit is wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked before the Lord as they walk in disobedience to God being lovers of self, Matthew 25:51; 2 Timothy 3:1-7; Revelation 3:17.​

 

[miamited]

Just because many people say something does not make it true.

That's absolutely true, but applies as much to what I'm saying as to what you're saying.

If the 25% of the landmass was to include China and India and power was given to the horsemen to kill 100% of the population in that 25% of the landmass... the death toll would be much higher than 2 billion(25% pop of Earth). What if the 25% included Antarctica... the numbers would be underwhelming.

yes, but if we allow it to mean population, as it seems many, many scholars do, then it would not be of any consequence as to whether some places of the earth are more or less populated.

God bless,
Ted

 

[dwb001]

That's absolutely true, but applies as much to what I'm saying as to what you're saying.

yes, but if we allow it to mean population, as it seems many, many scholars do, then it would not be of any consequence as to whether some places of the earth are more or less populated.

God bless,
Ted

I am opening up more possible interpretations... your stance appears to limit interpretations.
Just trying to open eyes to different ways of looking at verses that haven't been challenged in a long time.
Maybe... as the time draws nearer... the more recent ways of viewing Revelation will be more accurate than old teachings.
After all is not the Spirit of Prophecy(visions/dreams) not supposed to increase in the end times?
So lets open our minds to new ways of looking at old problems... Not open minds to accept anything... Yes test what I am saying and what others say... but we should not be quick to dismiss new ideas.

 

[miamited]

HI dwb001

So lets open our minds to new ways of looking at old problems..

Well, I'm not sure that's an appropriate way of looking at it. It isn't a 'problem' and there will be only one way to have correctly looked at the events when we see the prophetic account fulfilled. So I agree, that we should have reasonably open minds when looking at prophecy, but it will still have a single way that the events will unfold, when the time comes. And that's what we're all shooting for. To 'rightly' divide the word of God.

Just as all the prophecies of Jesus' birth worked out in a particular way in the real world in which it came to pass, so to will all of these prophecies of the last days. But however it is worked out, it will touch on every one of the bullet points that God has given us. Remember the Scriptures said that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. But Mary and Joseph didn't live in Bethlehem. How is God going to work out getting them to Bethlehem to fulfill that prophecy? Well He had Quirinius command a census. A census, pretty much called up out of nowhere that forced Mary and Joseph to go to Bethlehem at the very time that Mary was due to give birth,

So, as I've previously explained, as I read the account of John's vision and recounting of what he was seeing as he stood in the very throne room of God's place, I see that it's very possible that Jesus took the scroll and began opening the seals in the day that he looked like a Lamb who had been slain. He doesn't just rip them all open at once like a child on Christmas, but he slowly opens them and as he opens each one he allows the vision of what John was seeing to complete before opening the next.

Part of this is just normal human understanding of world events since John wrote that account. We have had wars. We have had many, many famines and pestilence and diseases over the last 2,000 years. So, I just have to ask myself that if all these things are happening that Jesus is telling us will be happening, then why is it not possible that those horsemen have been riding around. BTW, while I'm sure that a great many won't agree because most of our 'bright' scholars have told us that it just isn't so, I believe that the white horse represents the gospel.

Look at the description; White horse, crown (and while some say it's a crown that applies somehow to some Satanic agenda, the Scriptures don't actually say it that way.) sword and going out to conquer. Christians read the word 'conquer' and think, "Oh, it must be something bad to want to 'conquer' us." But that isn't what I see. I believe that the rider of the white horse is the gospel of Jesus, that is being spread from the ministry of Jesus, the rider of the white horse goes out to 'conquer' the hearts of men/women. God does want to conquer our wicked hearts and turn them back to Him, and I believe that's exactly what this rider on the white horse is doing.

So, God has been allowing the gospel to spread all over the world, to conquer the hearts of men ever since Jesus ascended into heaven. IF I'm correct in this interpretation, then just as the gospel has been roaming the earth for about 2,000 years now, I also believe those other 3 horsemen have been roaming the earth for about the last 2,000 years and we've been witness to their handiwork, as described in the Scriptures, over that entire time and it's going to get even worse as far as the things that the last three horsemen are doing on the earth, but also that white horse rider is still spreading the gospel. It seems obvious to me that the four horsemen are already loosed.

Now, we stand somewhere along the timeline of Jesus still opening these scrolls. However, when he gets the seventh seal removed, then the scroll of God's justice will be opened and all of the really terrible things, the bowl JUDGMENTS will begin. Those judgments are strictly against the wicked left behind. We are not destined to fall under the wrath of God and the Revelation of Jesus does definitely refer to the bowl judgements as containing the wrath of God poured out upon the earth.

It does all fit, but will it actually be the way these things happen on the earth? We'll have to wait and watch. But it certainly meets all of the biblical explanation.

God bless
Ted

 

[dwb001]

HI dwb001

Well, I'm not sure that's an appropriate way of looking at it. It isn't a 'problem' and there will be only one way to have correctly looked at the events when we see the prophetic account fulfilled. So I agree, that we should have reasonably open minds when looking at prophecy, but it will still have a single way that the events will unfold, when the time comes. And that's what we're all shooting for. To 'rightly' divide the word of God.

That is why we don't close our minds to different ideas. Weigh them and find if they ring true or not. That is why I challenge anyone who makes a definitive statement. Are you sure enough to defend your position?

Just as all the prophecies of Jesus' birth worked out in a particular way in the real world in which it came to pass, so to will all of these prophecies of the last days. But however it is worked out, it will touch on every one of the bullet points that God has given us. Remember the Scriptures said that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. But Mary and Joseph didn't live in Bethlehem. How is God going to work out getting them to Bethlehem to fulfill that prophecy? Well He had Quirinius command a census. A census, pretty much called up out of nowhere that forced Mary and Joseph to go to Bethlehem at the very time that Mary was due to give birth,

Right... so take Revelation as true and see if the world and your ideas match it. Don't try to make Revelation match your(or mine) ideas. Revelation is true.... so do the events of today match Revelation is always my question.

So, as I've previously explained, as I read the account of John's vision and recounting of what he was seeing as he stood in the very throne room of God's place, I see that it's very possible that Jesus took the scroll and began opening the seals in the day that he looked like a Lamb who had been slain. He doesn't just rip them all open at once like a child on Christmas, but he slowly opens them and as he opens each one he allows the vision of what John was seeing to complete before opening the next.

Part of this is just normal human understanding of world events since John wrote that account. We have had wars. We have had many, many famines and pestilence and diseases over the last 2,000 years. So, I just have to ask myself that if all these things are happening that Jesus is telling us will be happening, then why is it not possible that those horsemen have been riding around. BTW, while I'm sure that a great many won't agree because most of our 'bright' scholars have told us that it just isn't so, I believe that the white horse represents the gospel.

Logical and interesting... I disagree... but you do make valid points.

Look at the description; White horse, crown (and while some say it's a crown that applies somehow to some Satanic agenda, the Scriptures don't actually say it that way.) sword and going out to conquer. Christians read the word 'conquer' and think, "Oh, it must be something bad to want to 'conquer' us." But that isn't what I see. I believe that the rider of the white horse is the gospel of Jesus, that is being spread from the ministry of Jesus, the rider of the white horse goes out to 'conquer' the hearts of men/women. God does want to conquer our wicked hearts and turn them back to Him, and I believe that's exactly what this rider on the white horse is doing.

Again you make logical and valid points... still don't agree... but you have thought this out. Nice!

So, God has been allowing the gospel to spread all over the world, to conquer the hearts of men ever since Jesus ascended into heaven. IF I'm correct in this interpretation, then just as the gospel has been roaming the earth for about 2,000 years now, I also believe those other 3 horsemen have been roaming the earth for about the last 2,000 years and we've been witness to their handiwork, as described in the Scriptures, over that entire time and it's going to get even worse as far as the things that the last three horsemen are doing on the earth, but also that white horse rider is still spreading the gospel. It seems obvious to me that the four horsemen are already loosed.

Now, we stand somewhere along the timeline of Jesus still opening these scrolls. However, when he gets the seventh seal removed, then the scroll of God's justice will be opened and all of the really terrible things, the bowl JUDGMENTS will begin. Those judgments are strictly against the wicked left behind. We are not destined to fall under the wrath of God and the Revelation of Jesus does definitely refer to the bowl judgements as containing the wrath of God poured out upon the earth.

I don't agree with the left behind theory... but at least you are making a cohesive point.

It does all fit, but will it actually be the way these things happen on the earth? We'll have to wait and watch. But it certainly meets all of the biblical explanation.

God bless
Ted

And some humility... love it. I don't agree... but nicely put.

 

[miamited]

HI dwb001

Are you sure enough to defend your position?

I am. That's what I've been doing these last couple of posts.

Right... so take Revelation as true and see if the world and your ideas match it. Don't try to make Revelation match your(or mine) ideas. Revelation is true.... so do the events of today match Revelation is always my question.

Yes, and that also is what I've done. I read the Revelation first, and then I looked at the world to see how the world is matching what the Revelation says will be happening.

Listen, I understand that a lot of people may not see it unfolding as I do. However, as you've said, you can't deny that my explanation does match the explanation given in the Scriptures. The issue is the time that these things will happen. The Scriptures are not clear that everything written in the Revelation of Jesus is future. In fact, right in the middle of it, it goes back and tells the story of the birth of Jesus. "The woman will be with child." When he is born, Satan tries to destroy him and when he sees that he has failed he moves on to persecute those who hold to his testimony.

That's speaking of the days of Jesus' life and that after Jesus is crucified and leaves the earth, Satan then turns his attention to 'those who keep the to 'his' (Jesus') testimony. All of that has been happening ever since Jesus left us.

So, the timing of a lot of what we read about in the Revelation of Jesus, is undefined, and we have to look through and search for clues that might give us some indication as to 'when' these things will actually happen.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Dave Watchman]

So, I just have to ask myself that if all these things are happening that Jesus is telling us will be happening, then why is it not possible that those horsemen have been riding around. BTW, while I'm sure that a great many won't agree because most of our 'bright' scholars have told us that it just isn't so, I believe that the white horse represents the gospel.

Look at the description; White horse, crown (and while some say it's a crown that applies somehow to some Satanic agenda, the Scriptures don't actually say it that way.) sword and going out to conquer. Christians read the word 'conquer' and think, "Oh, it must be something bad to want to 'conquer' us." But that isn't what I see. I believe that the rider of the white horse is the gospel of Jesus, that is being spread from the ministry of Jesus, the rider of the white horse goes out to 'conquer' the hearts of men/women. God does want to conquer our wicked hearts and turn them back to Him, and I believe that's exactly what this rider on the white horse is doing.

So, God has been allowing the gospel to spread all over the world, to conquer the hearts of men

Agreed.

Now, we stand somewhere along the timeline of Jesus still opening these scrolls. However, when he gets the seventh seal removed, then the scroll of God's justice will be opened and all of the really terrible things, the bowl JUDGMENTS will begin.

Agreed.

It seems obvious to me that the four horsemen are already loosed.

Agreed.

IF I'm correct in this interpretation, then just as the gospel has been roaming the earth for about 2,000 years now, I also believe those other 3 horsemen have been roaming the earth for about the last 2,000 years and we've been witness to their handiwork, as described in the Scriptures, over that entire time and it's going to get even worse as far as the things that the last three horsemen are doing on the earth, but also that white horse rider is still spreading the gospel. It seems obvious to me that the four horsemen are already loosed.

Although I have a different view on the exact timing being less than 2000 years, you've come close enough to become the winner of the internet for today Ted.

The first three seals were not even bad things. The Rider on the white horse was Jesus. It was the Gospel message ABOUT Jesus.

"Now I watched when the Lamb opened one of the seven seals, and I heard one of the four living creatures say with a voice like thunder, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.
The first seal rider is not really Jesus in person. It's the message ABOUT Jesus. It's the Gospel message that salvation comes only through faith IN Jesus, and not what any church tells us we have to do to be saved. And you must know that message couldn't go out conquering in large numbers until AFTER 1798. The Waldensians had to hide out with their Bibles in the forest on the run from persecution until after 1798. It was against the law to own a Bible. The Gospel message couldn't be free to conquer.

Remember Martin Luther nailing his thesis to the door. In 1517 Luther wrote a note attacking the Catholic Church’s corrupt practice of selling indulgences to absolve sin. The church in Rome had an iron grip on doctrine. They wouldn't let anyone own Bibles. And they could burn us at the stake as heretics if we crossed them.

Jesus broke open the first seal in 1798. The message could finally go out and to conquer that salvation comes through faith in Jesus only. This was a tough, but important transition at that time. People were shocked, it was ground breaking. For more than approximately 1200 years, the church in Rome had claimed that salvation came through obedience to the traditions and sacraments of the church.

Napoleon put the pope in jail and closed down the Vatican. When Paypal power was broken in 1798, the time had finally come for the world to hear the truth about salvation. The Bible teaches that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ alone. No ritual, no clergy, and no church can save a sinner.

The bow in the rider’s hand is not a weapon of war as those cheesy pictures portray. That word used for "bow" is for a fabric bow, toxon. From Strongs: 5115 toxon {tox'-on} from the base of 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric)

There's no arrows anyway, what good would an archers bow be without arrows? The Greek word toxon indicates the bow is made of fabric which points to the idea that the bow carried in the rider’s hand is a winner’s ribbon.

The crown is a stephanos crown.

The crown of victory.

The crown awarded to a Winner.

But be of good cheer;
For He has overcome the world.

'When is the apocalypse?

Is it a week from Tuesday? Someone told me it was a week from Tuesday. How do I get ready for it? Should I sell my house and all my goods? Should I go up on the nearest mountain and wait? Come on, this is a Christian forum. Some one should know what to tell me. The first Beast rules for an...

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I've also noticed what I think is a self evident rule in Apocalyptic Prophecy. Which is that: whenever we put the Bad Guy into a space where Jesus belongs, it will become a curse to our understanding.

A main reason why I value my understanding of this is also that I think it lets me pin the prophecy to a specific prophetic time period. A specific point in time.

And so I would agree that we are much deeper into the seals, and hence Revelation's narrative, than most of the people, even the Christians, would find tolerable.

And like how the White horse Rider turns out to be something very different from what the prophecy expositors always told us He was, the black horse rider of the third seal is probably also something completely different. It was not about famine, or inflation. Lol.

"When he opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” And I looked, and behold, a black horse! And its rider had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard what seemed to be a voice in the midst of the four living creatures, saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!”​

This is about Jesus building His Church, judging the dead, one stone at a time.

The scales in the Rider's Hand are like the scales at the Supreme Court held by Lady Justice:

The scales in the Rider's Hand are like the scales from Daniel, you have been weighed in the scales and found wanting.

mene, mene, tekel, parsin

ekel : You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.​

Do no harm to the oil or the wine.

“A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius, and do not harm the oil and wine!”​

These are the same wages Solomon paid when building the temple for the Lord.

In 2 Chronicles 2, Solomon was preparing to build a temple for the Lord and paid Hiram the King of Tyre with wheat, barley, oil and wine.

"I will give for your servants, the woodsmen who cut timber, 20,000 corsc of crushed wheat, 20,000 cors of barley, 20,000 baths of wine, and 20,000 baths of oil. ”​

A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius,

The denarius was the silver coin of the Roman empire. From the parable of the labourers in the vineyard, it would seem that a denarius was then the ordinary pay for a day's wages.

"The wages of sin is death.

"For the wages of sin is death;
but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.​

Peaceful Sabbath.