The Black Horse Will Soon Start Its Ride...

[for_his_glory]

As an expert in the book of Revelation I am sure that you understand that Revelation is a stand alone work that does not lean on any other work in the Bible.

John's revelations goes straight back from Genesis to Rev as it takes the full context of the Bible and also history to understand many things that John has written.

 

[dwb001]

John's revelations goes straight back from Genesis to Rev as it takes the full context of the Bible and also history to understand many things that John has written.

No it doesn't.

 

[for_his_glory]

If you would refer to the Revelation section of this message board you would get my understanding of the black horse.

Why not present your understanding here in this thread as this is what the topic is all about and how others understand what the black horse is all about.

 

[dwb001]

Because what John wrote was for the latter days as this was a proper question that again you refuse to answer. I am trying to have a discussion with you, but you keep evading my questions

I don't think you understand that I am answering your questions.
Maybe ask different questions and you might get different answers.
We have fundamentally different ways of reading Revelation. So as a very specific question and I will answer it with reciprocal specificity. Keep it under 300 words please.

 

[dwb001]

Why not present your understanding here in this thread as this is what the topic is all about and how others understand what the black horse is all about.

Black horse....
Well as no actual famine is in the text(doesn't rule it out) then what it looks like is selective inflation of basic foodstuffs.
The possible causes are many... but not general famine as oil and wine not touched by price hikes.

Possible causes... localised famine/drought/flooding, price fixing via monopoly/gov intervention/rationing, supply chain issues, etc.

But going by the wording a days worth of food would equal a working persons daily wage. So when the price of a loaf of bread hits $100.00 in my area... I will definitely call that the Black Horse.

Does the oil and wine issue mean that rich persons foodstuffs won't be expensive? Not really as most people of the time used oil and wine... Just grain crops seem to be in trouble... why? Unknown. The text doesn't say.

So look for the widening of the price between grain based foods and non-grain based foods.

 

[for_his_glory]

Why would John relate the black horse to his own time and compare it to the future end of days?

Ask the proper questions.. and get better answers.

All I am asking you is what is your understanding of the black horse as per the topic of this thread. We need not go around in circles as this stems from you saying in post 25 "I see a lot of interpretation of Revelation... not a lot of keeping the words of Revelation.
Maybe don't alter the meaning of the passages in Rev."

Why can you not simply give us your understanding of the black horse instead of complaining about all the interpretations that are out there ?

Here is my understanding

The four riders follow after each other in this order and I am giving my understanding of each rider and color of the horse.

Revelation 6:1-8:

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

White horse represents a rider with great power and authority as in early wars where Generals would always ride a white horse as they went forth conquering and to conquer. The rider of this white horse is a false Christ: Matthew 24:5, 24; Revelation 19:11-15.

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Red horse symbolizes Global war bringing much bloodshed to the land. The rider on the red horse takes peace from the earth and they should kill one another and there was given unto him a great sword: Matthew 24:6-10; Revelation 19:15

And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Black horse is a symbol of famine as the rider holds a pair of balances in his hands causing much famine which follows after wars. Many will not be able to afford a days wage in order to feed their families. Instead of coming to God they reach out to the beast out of the earth as they receive the mark of this beast, Rev 13; 1 Kings 8:37-43; Romans 8:34.

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Pale horse is a symbol of sickness and disease that follows after war that causes great famine in the world as many become sick and weak from dehydration and malnutrition and eventually die.

The pale horse riders name is Death. Following Death is Hell which means one that is laid in a grave after they have physically died as you can read in Strong’s Exhausted Concordance Hebrew #7585 – Greek # 86. Death is not a final destination, but a state of being until Christ returns and all, saint and sinner, will hear the voice of Christ to raise from their graves as some will raise to eternal life and some to eternal damnation, John 5:28, 29, Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't think you understand that I am answering your questions.
Maybe ask different questions and you might get different answers.
We have fundamentally different ways of reading Revelation. So as a very specific question and I will answer it with reciprocal specificity. Keep it under 300 words please.

Never mind I will withdraw my question I asked you as my question was very clear. Moving on.

 

[for_his_glory]

Black horse....
Well as no actual famine is in the text(doesn't rule it out) then what it looks like is selective inflation of basic foodstuffs.
The possible causes are many... but not general famine as oil and wine not touched by price hikes.

Possible causes... localised famine/drought/flooding, price fixing via monopoly/gov intervention/rationing, supply chain issues, etc.

But going by the wording a days worth of food would equal a working persons daily wage. So when the price of a loaf of bread hits $100.00 in my area... I will definitely call that the Black Horse.

Does the oil and wine issue mean that rich persons foodstuffs won't be expensive? Not really as most people of the time used oil and wine... Just grain crops seem to be in trouble... why? Unknown. The text doesn't say.

So look for the widening of the price between grain based foods and non-grain based foods.

Thank you as this is all I wanted from you.

 

[dwb001]

Never mind I will withdraw my question I asked you as my question was very clear. Moving on.

Clear to you... not to others.
Please try to keep in mind that not everyone thinks the same.

 

[dwb001]

All I am asking you is what is your understanding of the black horse as per the topic of this thread. We need not go around in circles as this stems from you saying in post 25 "I see a lot of interpretation of Revelation... not a lot of keeping the words of Revelation.
Maybe don't alter the meaning of the passages in Rev."

Why can you not simply give us your understanding of the black horse instead of complaining about all the interpretations that are out there ?

Here is my understanding

The four riders follow after each other in this order and I am giving my understanding of each rider and color of the horse.

Revelation 6:1-8:

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

White horse represents a rider with great power and authority as in early wars where Generals would always ride a white horse as they went forth conquering and to conquer. The rider of this white horse is a false Christ: Matthew 24:5, 24; Revelation 19:11-15.

See this would be adding words to Revelation and therefore confusing the prophecy. Rev 22:18-19.
All the text says is that he has a bow, a crown was given to him and he went out conquering and to conqueror.

And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Red horse symbolizes Global war bringing much bloodshed to the land. The rider on the red horse takes peace from the earth and they should kill one another and there was given unto him a great sword: Matthew 24:6-10; Revelation 19:15

In truth, war is not part of the text. Peace taken from the land so that the people kill one another. Not necessarily war... think of riots and civil unrest, pogroms, etc.

And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Black horse is a symbol of famine as the rider holds a pair of balances in his hands causing much famine which follows after wars. Many will not be able to afford a days wage in order to feed their families. Instead of coming to God they reach out to the beast out of the earth as they receive the mark of this beast, Rev 13; 1 Kings 8:37-43; Romans 8:34.

Again famine is not mentioned. And you bring the MoTB into it at this stage... that seems like a big stretch to me.
Remember to keep the words... that would indicate that one should not mangle the text to fit some preconceived idea.

And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Pale horse is a symbol of sickness and disease that follows after war that causes great famine in the world as many become sick and weak from dehydration and malnutrition and eventually die.

So if the Red horse is not war your previous two points fall apart. But all it says is that Death and Hell kill with sword, hunger, death, and beasts.

The pale horse riders name is Death. Following Death is Hell which means one that is laid in a grave after they have physically died as you can read in Strong’s Exhausted Concordance Hebrew #7585 – Greek # 86. Death is not a final destination, but a state of being until Christ returns and all, saint and sinner, will hear the voice of Christ to raise from their graves as some will raise to eternal life and some to eternal damnation, John 5:28, 29, Revelation 20:11-15.

And now we come to the favourite part.

~Personal belief subject to change... but not very likely to change~
This is where the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man come into play. (story... not parable)
Death is common to all... but as contrasted with Hell, otherwise why is Hell mentioned?
So we have the fourth horseman killing the Christian and non alike.
The dead are sent to Bosom of Abraham or Hell.
The fourth (and fifth) horseman are not against one or the other but common to all.

 

[for_his_glory]

See this would be adding words to Revelation and therefore confusing the prophecy. Rev 22:18-19.
All the text says is that he has a bow, a crown was given to him and he went out conquering and to conqueror.


In truth, war is not part of the text. Peace taken from the land so that the people kill one another. Not necessarily war... think of riots and civil unrest, pogroms, etc.


Again famine is not mentioned. And you bring the MoTB into it at this stage... that seems like a big stretch to me.
Remember to keep the words... that would indicate that one should not mangle the text to fit some preconceived idea.

So if the Red horse is not war your previous two points fall apart. But all it says is that Death and Hell kill with sword, hunger, death, and beasts.


And now we come to the favourite part.

~Personal belief subject to change... but not very likely to change~
This is where the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man come into play. (story... not parable)
Death is common to all... but as contrasted with Hell, otherwise why is Hell mentioned?
So we have the fourth horseman killing the Christian and non alike.
The dead are sent to Bosom of Abraham or Hell.
The fourth (and fifth) horseman are not against one or the other but common to all.

I am not adding any words as I said this is how I understand these scriptures and never ask anyone to agree with me. It's all in how one digs deeper into the mysteries of the word of God pulling out the full context researching the history of the four Empires with the last revived one, wars that have always been, persecutions even to death of millions and millions of Christians through out history and the total global control of a one world government that is a Luciferian system that controls world wide economics, political, military, educational, environmental and false religious system that is even now in the world, but will come to fruition when the son of perdition takes it's seat in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years before the return of Christ during the seventh trumpet sounding as all of this is found in the book of Revelation.

It's no different than you believing the parables Jesus taught are real stories instead of allegory, but that is another topic.

Each of the seven seals being opened by Jesus brings in succession one after the other beginning with the first seal.

I would not expect you or anyone else to believe me, but to only take what I give and study it for yourself as I always give full context of the scriptures, history and cultures of the eras you can study for yourself. Am I saying I am always right, no, but that this is how I understand scripture. I am always opened for correction by the Holy Spirit working through those to correct me that have more Spiritual knowledge than I have.

So this is my understanding of Rev 6 and the four horseman and the color of each horse.

 

[miamited]

Hi for_his_glory

Because what John wrote was for the latter days as this was a proper question that again you refuse to answer. I am trying to have a discussion with you, but you keep evading my questions

While I do agree that a lot of what we read in the Scriptures concerning the Revelation is future to us, I don't agree that it all is. For example, right smack dab in the middle we read about the birth of Jesus and how it came to pass and what Satan was doing at this time and what happened to Israel. That is all past for us and was even past for those living in the day that the words were written.

One thing that got me started down this path were the words that are repeated twice:
The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.” Rev 22:6

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. Rev. 1:1

There's actually a lot of discussion on this issue among the believers. Some take the position that it did soon take place and most of the account of the Revelation has already happened. However, my position is that the 'what must soon take place' is describing the beginning or start of something. If Jesus did ascend into heaven and fairly soon after that was declared righteous to open the scroll and did begin tearing off the seals, as I suggest...the beginning of all that we read did soon 'start' after Jesus ascended. But the Revelation is pretty much an historical account that flows from the beginning of Jesus' birth to the day of his Father's judgment. That's a lot of time that the short book covers, but it's very possible that the 'soon take place' did actually happen with the beginning of the process which was opening the seals of the scroll.

Now, I know that people are now working to redefine/translate the word to 'quickly' and then they say, "Well, it doesn't really mean that it's going to happen soon, but that when it does start to happen it's going to happen quickly. The days of God's Son taking away those who are His and then the bowl judgments, once they start, will be very quick.

Maybe. The ASV does translate it as 'shortly', which certainly blows the water out of the 'quickly' idea. Shortly pretty much matches with soon. Most translations do translate it as 'soon'. So, are most of the translators wrong, or are we getting the wrong ideas about this issue of things that John is being told happening 'soon'. But again, if the breaking of the seals did start shortly after Jesus ascended into heaven, and we are told that John was writing this about 90 A.D., then those horsemen have been loosed for awhile and it start soon.

God bless,
Ted

 

[dwb001]

I am not adding any words as I said this is how I understand these scriptures and never ask anyone to agree with me. It's all in how one digs deeper into the mysteries of the word of God pulling out the full context researching the history of the four Empires with the last revived one, wars that have always been, persecutions even to death of millions and millions of Christians through out history and the total global control of a one world government that is a Luciferian system that controls world wide economics, political, military, educational, environmental and false religious system that is even now in the world, but will come to fruition when the son of perdition takes it's seat in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years before the return of Christ during the seventh trumpet sounding as all of this is found in the book of Revelation.

It's no different than you believing the parables Jesus taught are real stories instead of allegory, but that is another topic.

Each of the seven seals being opened by Jesus brings in succession one after the other beginning with the first seal.

I would not expect you or anyone else to believe me, but to only take what I give and study it for yourself as I always give full context of the scriptures, history and cultures of the eras you can study for yourself. Am I saying I am always right, no, but that this is how I understand scripture. I am always opened for correction by the Holy Spirit working through those to correct me that have more Spiritual knowledge than I have.

So this is my understanding of Rev 6 and the four horseman and the color of each horse.

Yeah that would be the definition of adding words to Revelation. Where is Empire in Revelation? Where are the horsemen said to represent anything? Where is "one world government" in Revelation?

Where does Jesus say that Lazarus and the Rich Man is a parable? Where does it say that it is allegory?

Where is history, cultures and eras in Revelation? Does Revelation ever say... "...as was written by Daniel..."? Does Revelation say... "...when {such and such} was King of the lands..."?

I'm wondering where you get your time references from.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Black horse is a symbol of famine as the rider holds a pair of balances in his hands causing much famine which follows after wars. Many will not be able to afford a days wage in order to feed their families. Instead of coming to God they reach out to the beast out of the earth as they receive the mark of this beast, Rev 13; 1 Kings 8:37-43; Romans 8:34.

But Jesus said things will be as usual just prior to His coming.

Peace and safety.

Eating and drinking, unaware, right up until the flood comes and takes them all away.

"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.​

So I think the third seal, and a bunch of other things, have happened already and are happening just now. You think the third seal and a bunch of other things will happen in the future. That's great! Because some people are worried about it happening now. We can believe as we wish. Even Jesus Himself said if you are willing to accept it, John the Baptist is the Elijah who was to come. And there's people, even to this day, who can't accept it.

"And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.​

The reason why I am so sure that I am right is that price action makes for market commentary. This is where we can trade the charts, do not trade on a story. Because there's a lot of stories out there that people can debate all day long about, but never reach the truth. I'm talking about technical analysis. This can be applied to apocalyptic prophecy by separating the prophetic time periods from the prophecies themselves.

There's 18 prophetic time periods in the books of Daniel and Revelation. If we can be relatively certain that we've found the "62 weeks", the "7 weeks", the "time, times and a half a time", the "1260 days", and the "1290 days", then the identification of these can force which story, which prophetic doctrine, is true.

This also means that if we can understand that the "five months" of Revelation 9 has just been completed, the trumpets were not what we were always told they would be. If the "1290 days" are finished, then the completion of that prophetic time period is what causes the exact identification of what specifically is the "abomination" AND what and where the "holy place" is where it ought not to be. The man of sin has taken his seat, the lost are already marked and the two witnesses have finished their testimony and must be something other than what the prophecy expositors told us they were.

A great mountain, burning with fire, that was thrown into the sea, is traditionally thought to be an asteroid striking the planet. But what if it was the recent volcanic eruption at La Palma. And during the time that it spewed it's lava into the sea, a third of the lost were being marked by angels for their destruction. Revelation already has defined the many nations, and peoples and tongues, as the "sea" from which the composite beast has risen from.

Monkeypox started in May 2021, spread around the world, and shut off like a switch in September. Five months. Men were seeking death, but death would flee from them. For the penalty for sin IS death.

2022-23 monkeypox outbreak - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

They cursed the God of Heaven because of their pain and sores, but would not repent. They lined up and sought out every anti-viral and vaccine in order to continue their sin.

Notice also how the composite beast has lost his grip on Roe/Wade? Why do you think that's happening now? I don't think that would be possible if we were still within the "42 months" of his authority. If, and it's a big if, Monkey pox was the five months of Revelation 9, and coincident with the first vial, it means people are already "marked", or "sealed", with the seal of the living God. Because only the men who bore the mark of the beast, and worshipped its image, only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads, were tormented for five months. And they did not die, from the first case in the UK in May, until it shut off like a spigot this September. Five months.

They were tormented for five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. I read their stories on Twitter and Facebook. Men sought out codine for the pain that I won't repeat in detail here. Just to say that their puss filled sores were also around and near sensitive genital areas. When they had to use the toilet, they would literally scream out in pain and curse the name of God for their pain and sores.

"My anorectal lesions, which were already very painful, turned into open wounds. It felt like I had three fissures right next to each other, and it was absolutely excruciating. I would literally scream out loud when I went to the bathroom. Even keeping the area clean, like washing myself, was extremely painful. It was a two hour process each time.

"The lesions started drying out very quickly and I’m now down to just three tiny little scabs left. Only in the last couple of days have I been able to go to the bathroom without pain.
www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/23/i-literally-screamed-out-loud-in-pain-my-two-weeks-of-monkeypox-hell

"On the pain… on a scale of 1 to **** me it hurts, there are moments you just want the world to swallow you up but then there’s codeine. I’ve fractured bones and been operated on without anaesthetic - this pain is a whole new level, so solidarity with all monkeypox sufferers. 5/8

"I’m absolutely not out of the woods with treatment. We’re waiting to see how I respond to more antibiotics and there are other pain management options (read hospitalization) I’m hoping to avoid. 6/8
5:50 AM · Jul 30, 2022·Twitter for iPhone (Twitter link with expletive deleted)​

Some have thought the two witnesses to be two of one thing, and two of another. The Law and the Prophets, and the Bible and Holy spirit. When these have finished their testimony, we are in the night when no man can work. The inner court of the saved is measured. Leave out the outer court, they are the lost. The prophetic time periods force the identification, not the other way around.

If the 3.5 days are 3.5 years that fall within the 1335 literal days, it means we are very close to a hard stop in time.

I don't know what happens next, but I suspect we are in the heptad for it to happen, and much has already taken place. So when the next big event starts, we could be in for a quick count of days. Maybe 40 days. Until we see the sign. And the end comes like a flood that takes them all away. Like it was in the Days of Noah.

For as were the days of Noah,
so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

 

[for_his_glory]

But Jesus said things will be as usual just prior to His coming.

Peace and safety.

Eating and drinking, unaware, right up until the flood comes and takes them all away.

"For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Things will be the same as usual as even now sin runs rampant in the world and will continue to wax worse until the last day when Christ returns and makes an end of all abominations once and for all eternity as it will be the same in the days of Noah as they are eating and drinking and making merry until they see the Son of God coming in the clouds and then like the flood will be to late for those who have rejected Christ as they enjoy the worldly pleasures . Rev 19

Peace and safety is only the false promise of the son of perdition deceiving even the very elect of God if possible to take the mark of this beast. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi for_his_glory

While I do agree that a lot of what we read in the Scriptures concerning the Revelation is future to us, I don't agree that it all is. For example, right smack dab in the middle we read about the birth of Jesus and how it came to pass and what Satan was doing at this time and what happened to Israel. That is all past for us and was even past for those living in the day that the words were written.

One thing that got me started down this path were the words that are repeated twice:
The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.” Rev 22:6

The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. Rev. 1:1

There's actually a lot of discussion on this issue among the believers. Some take the position that it did soon take place and most of the account of the Revelation has already happened. However, my position is that the 'what must soon take place' is describing the beginning or start of something. If Jesus did ascend into heaven and fairly soon after that was declared righteous to open the scroll and did begin tearing off the seals, as I suggest...the beginning of all that we read did soon 'start' after Jesus ascended. But the Revelation is pretty much an historical account that flows from the beginning of Jesus' birth to the day of his Father's judgment. That's a lot of time that the short book covers, but it's very possible that the 'soon take place' did actually happen with the beginning of the process which was opening the seals of the scroll.

Now, I know that people are now working to redefine/translate the word to 'quickly' and then they say, "Well, it doesn't really mean that it's going to happen soon, but that when it does start to happen it's going to happen quickly. The days of God's Son taking away those who are His and then the bowl judgments, once they start, will be very quick.

Maybe. The ASV does translate it as 'shortly', which certainly blows the water out of the 'quickly' idea. Shortly pretty much matches with soon. Most translations do translate it as 'soon'. So, are most of the translators wrong, or are we getting the wrong ideas about this issue of things that John is being told happening 'soon'. But again, if the breaking of the seals did start shortly after Jesus ascended into heaven, and we are told that John was writing this about 90 A.D., then those horsemen have been loosed for awhile and it start soon.

God bless,
Ted

When scripture says shortly after or soon to take place we have to remember all is in God's timing that is totally different then what we see as being soon or quickly to come to pass.

Matthew 24 When the disciples came to show Jesus all the buildings of the Temple it was the destruction of the Temple that He told them would be destroyed as that came to be fulfilled in 70AD (future). After that the disciples asked Jesus three quesions, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Jesus replied back, "Take heed that no man deceive you". Then Jesus proceeded to tel them of future events and then years later had these events revealed to John who wrote these letters to the seven churches in Asia that now make up the book of Revelation that actually spans the whole Bible when you study Revelation as it takes you to the past, present and future.

There are three woes in Revelations as each one is worse than the other. The first one starts with the opening of the seventh seal in Rev 8:1 through Rev 9:12 that include the first five trumpets. The second woe starts in Rev 9:13 with the sixth trumpet and ends in Rev 11:14. The third woe starts with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 ending in Rev 20:15.

I believe what we are seeing within the four horseman are things that are past, present and also future as all these things have progressed throughout the years even before and after the flood n Noah's day up to the time of Christ return.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yeah that would be the definition of adding words to Revelation. Where is Empire in Revelation? Where are the horsemen said to represent anything? Where is "one world government" in Revelation?

Where does Jesus say that Lazarus and the Rich Man is a parable? Where does it say that it is allegory?

Where is history, cultures and eras in Revelation? Does Revelation ever say... "...as was written by Daniel..."? Does Revelation say... "...when {such and such} was King of the lands..."?

I'm wondering where you get your time references from.

If you have to ask all these questions then is it possible you have never studied the deeper mysteries of the word of God, maybe you have, maybe you haven't. If you can not see all the cross referencing with the OT and NT then I don't know what to tell you. Each one has to study it out for themselves. No one can just read the Bible like any ordinary book because it is not an ordinary book, but that of being the word of God and what He wants us to learn.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

 

[miamited]

Hi for_his_glory

When scripture says shortly after or soon to take place we have to remember all is in God's timing that is totally different then what we see as being soon or quickly to come to pass.

Ummmm? I'm not sure I can accept that. God wrote the Scriptures to man. Just as God had to become a man to save mankind, He wrote His Scriptures for man to understand. So I see any explanation of an event that mentions some time, to likely be in our time because God knows that this 'God's time' wouldn't have any fixed meaning to us. Thinking like that, as I've seen, is what leads to all the confusion about the beginning...also.

Matthew 24 When the disciples came to show Jesus all the buildings of the Temple it was the destruction of the Temple that He told them would be destroyed as that came to be fulfilled in 70AD (future). After that the disciples asked Jesus three quesions, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Jesus replied back, "Take heed that no man deceive you". Then Jesus proceeded to tel them of future events and then years later had these events revealed to John who wrote these letters to the seven churches in Asia that now make up the book of Revelation that actually spans the whole Bible when you study Revelation as it takes you to the past, present and future.

As far as all that, I'm pretty much in agreement, although I'm not really clear on what your point is, at it relates to the issue of 'time references found in the Scriptures'.

There are three woes in Revelations as each one is worse than the other. The first one starts with the opening of the seventh seal in Rev 8:1 through Rev 9:12 that include the first five trumpets. The second woe starts in Rev 9:13 with the sixth trumpet and ends in Rev 11:14. The third woe starts with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 ending in Rev 20:15.

I believe what we are seeing within the four horseman are things that are past, present and also future as all these things have progressed throughout the years even before and after the flood n Noah's day up to the time of Christ return.

Again, I agree with this pretty much, but I don't see how it makes some statement that would support that time references aren't in our time, but in God's.

God bless,
Ted

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi for_his_glory

Ummmm? I'm not sure I can accept that. God wrote the Scriptures to man. Just as God had to become a man to save mankind, He wrote His Scriptures for man to understand. So I see any explanation of an event that mentions some time, to likely be in our time because God knows that this 'God's time' wouldn't have any fixed meaning to us. Thinking like that, as I've seen, is what leads to all the confusion about the beginning...also.


As far as all that, I'm pretty much in agreement, although I'm not really clear on what your point is, at it relates to the issue of 'time references found in the Scriptures'.


Again, I agree with this pretty much, but I don't see how it makes some statement that would support that time references aren't in our time, but in God's.

God bless,
Ted

All things of prophecy that God gave to the Prophets and Apostles to write, some have already been fulfilled and some yet to be fulfilled as the last one being the coming of Christ for His Bride, but yet all in God's timing for His purpose under heaven to draw all men unto Him before the door of salvation is closed forever when Christ returns and then every eye will see Him and many that rejected Him will wail at His coming.

 

[dwb001]

If you have to ask all these questions then is it possible you have never studied the deeper mysteries of the word of God, maybe you have, maybe you haven't. If you can not see all the cross referencing with the OT and NT then I don't know what to tell you. Each one has to study it out for themselves. No one can just read the Bible like any ordinary book because it is not an ordinary book, but that of being the word of God and what He wants us to learn.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

You don't seem to grasp the different nature of Revelation.
You don't just read the Bible... but you are to just read Revelation.
Funny you should quote those verses as that would be my exact quote in response to your post.
I ask these questions to get others to examine their own stance.
Can you defend your position? That is the basis of all my questions.
I wonder why I get so few questions on defending my position?
I am secure in my belief... but others have a difficult time when asked basic questions.
Like why do you believe that Revelation is like any other book in the Bible?