The Black Horse Will Soon Start Its Ride...

[miamited]

HI Dave Watchman

I've also noticed what I think is a self evident rule in Apocalyptic Prophecy. Which is that: whenever we put the Bad Guy into a space where Jesus belongs, it will become a curse to our understanding.

Well, certainly not honoring Jesus for who he is, especially by his people, is certainly on par with blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

And so I would agree that we are much deeper into the seals, and hence Revelation's narrative, than most of the people, even the Christians, would find tolerable.

Well, as I look over the descriptions of the seal events as they are opened, I'm led to our being somewhere between the fifth and sixth seal. We're certainly getting closer to the opening of the scroll. But it seems clear that the terrible wrath of God that comes after the seals are opened, isn't here...yet.

As I say, what difference would it make and how would we even know that some horseman had been released to make us make war, when we've already been making war for 2,000 years. How is the believer going to know that one day we get into a war and are able to confidently say, "Oh, this war is the work of the horseman that was sent out. But all the other 100's of wars previously were just, I don't know, regular man angry with man wars."

Good sharing with you. However, yes there is a certain amount of speculation in what any of us think as to how exactly the last days will play out, as far as specific issues that are mentioned going on. But for me, I feel pretty confident in my spirit, that this understanding of the opening of the seals...is correct. I have studied it and I have prayed about it and asked God for the wisdom of the Holy Spirit, and this is what came up.

We shall one day know all truth about this realm of God's creating and the things going on in it. For me, this entire realm of existence, from all that is on the earth and the earth itself, to every single heavenly body out there in the known universe, has only existed for about 6,000 years according to the Scriptures.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Consecrated Life]

Won't happen until the lawless one is in power.
But yes there is a need for all the preparations to be made ahead of time.


WSNATIONAL/WORLD NEWS

Why is China buying up US farmland?​

Some lawmakers say Chinese firms shouldn’t own American farmland at all.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Well, as I look over the descriptions of the seal events as they are opened, I'm led to our being somewhere between the fifth and sixth seal.

Since we know what and maybe where the 1st seal was opened, we also can see that the seals are progressive. The Gospel message that salvation comes through faith in Jesus couldn't really go out to conquer the world until the Bible was translated in numbers and the invention of the printing press after the middle ages. Through that printed Word, a great sword piecing to the marrow, the disciples message could then travel as a witness through not only Jerusalem, Judea, and in Samaria, but to the ends of the whole earth.

And he was given a great sword.

"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.​

And depending on what our understanding of what the "sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood actually is, we could just now be waiting for the stars of the sky falling to the earth and the fig tree shedding its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. And the mountains and islands removed from their place.


1st <--------------------------->7th

2nd <----------------------->7th​

3rd <--------------------->7th​

4th <------------------->7th​

5th <---------------->7th​

6th <------------->7th​

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[miamited]

Hi Dave Watchman

The Gospel message that salvation comes through faith in Jesus couldn't really go out to conquer the world until the Bible was translated in numbers and the invention of the printing press after the middle ages.

True dat! But those things have just helped the message along. The gospel has been 'being' proclaimed since Peter and Paul and the many first Apostles were out spreading it. Keep in mind that on one day in Jerusalem Peter spoke to a crowd and without printing press or translation of the Scriptures, more than 5,000 people gave testimony for Jesus! That was the beginning of the work of the 'white horse'. Jesus even told his disciples to wait until the Spirit sent them out. I believe that Spirit is represented by the white horse and rider.

Have you ever read any of Frank Perretti's work? I believe he may be truly representing the spiritual realm that is actually overlaid on our realm. According to his work, there are angels and demons all around us all the time, but we can't see them because they exist in a different realm of God's creating. However, when God wants one of his angels to do His bidding, then He 'opens the eyes' of someone to see into that realm. Kind of like a portal. I mean I'm using human terms to describe how this happens, but God seems to open a portal in front of Mary that she can see Gabriel standing there.

Remember when Paul had his experience with Jesus on the road? He was with a group of men, but only Paul 'heard' Jesus. The others claimed to have seen something but they had no idea, according to the Scriptures, what it was that they saw. But Paul got the message loud and clear. So, it seems painfully obvious that God has the ability to let one person see something while everyone else just goes on about their business.

Through that printed Word,...

Yes, through the words of Peter and Paul and Barnabas and then as our knowledge increased, books were printed and now today we have the internet. I believe that everyone of these 'methods' have been under the control of that white horsemen, as far as any message of the gospel. He has encouraged men to use printing presses and the internet and the ministry work of Paul and Peter and others, for that is what he was sent to do! It is the job of the white horseman to 'conquer the hearts of men'.

Yes, I understand, as I wrote previously, that this whole idea that the rider on the white horse must be evil comes from that word 'conquer'. But look, I mean the Scriptures are pretty clear that it is God's purpose that all men come to salvation through the gospel of Jesus, the Christ. That is just as much 'conquering' the hearts of men, as conquering some army and taking control of some nation on the earth.

Keep in mind that it is the English word 'conquer'. The actual word is nikaō and it is defined in the language from which the word comes, as: Conquer, overcome, prevail, get the victory, to subdue. God gets the victory, right? God's love will ultimately prevail, right? The gospel allows us to overcome sin. There is no logical reason that the definition of the original word has to mean something evil.

And he was given a great sword.

"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Exactly!!!!!! The Scriptures even refer to the Scriptures as a 'sword'. Take up your sword 'of the Spirit' 'which is the word of God'!!!

God bless,
Ted

 

[dwb001]

I see a lot of interpretation of Revelation... not a lot of keeping the words of Revelation.
Maybe don't alter the meaning of the passages in Rev.
Remember that the blessing comes to those who "read, hear and keep" the words of Rev.
Interpretation often changes the meaning of the words... and that would trigger Rev 22:18-19.
John calls us to "read, hear and keep"... not alter, metaphorise, or symbolise... no interpretation needed for 90-95% of the book.

 

[for_his_glory]

I see a lot of interpretation of Revelation... not a lot of keeping the words of Revelation.
Maybe don't alter the meaning of the passages in Rev.
Remember that the blessing comes to those who "read, hear and keep" the words of Rev.
Interpretation often changes the meaning of the words... and that would trigger Rev 22:18-19.
John calls us to "read, hear and keep"... not alter, metaphorise, or symbolise... no interpretation needed for 90-95% of the book.

Instead of complaining about everyone's interpretations tell us what you believe is being taught in Revelation.

Much of Revelation is literal and also symbolic and it's up to use to understand both in what God wants us to learn.

 

[dwb001]

Instead of complaining about everyone's interpretations tell us what you believe is being taught in Revelation.

Much of Revelation is literal and also symbolic and it's up to use to understand both in what God wants us to learn.

Just read the book... where is the confusion.
As a vision... we would describe in the exact same way as John.
I think that Revelation teaches what Revelation says.
Read the book... see if the world matches the text... if it doesn't then your view of the world is incorrect... or timing is off... but Revelation is exactly what it says it is.
If we interpret Revelation by changing the meaning of the words... then we are doing it wrong.
If we say that "Revelation means this and that" then we are misapplying the truth of Revelation.

Revelation is one continuous vision... disjointed in time and space... like a movie that shows one perspective then switches to another perspective.
This is how it read... is it not?

Revelation is a book that comes with instructions on how to read Revelation. So if we just follow the instructions we can see that it is a simple to understand vision.

 

[for_his_glory]

Just read the book... where is the confusion.
As a vision... we would describe in the exact same way as John.
I think that Revelation teaches what Revelation says.
Read the book... see if the world matches the text... if it doesn't then your view of the world is incorrect... or timing is off... but Revelation is exactly what it says it is.
If we interpret Revelation by changing the meaning of the words... then we are doing it wrong.
If we say that "Revelation means this and that" then we are misapplying the truth of Revelation.

Revelation is one continuous vision... disjointed in time and space... like a movie that shows one perspective then switches to another perspective.
This is how it read... is it not?

Revelation is a book that comes with instructions on how to read Revelation. So if we just follow the instructions we can see that it is a simple to understand vision.

There you go again not answering what is asked of you, but only beating around the bush and then you wonder why others get annoyed with you. When someone ask another for their understanding and they do not give it then we have to assume they know nothing as they evade as you are doing.

The book of Revelation is my passion as well as all end time latter day events that are mention through out the Bible. I have studied Revelation in it's full, but yet some things still remain a mystery. Even after writing a book on Revelation there still remains mysteries that are being revealed to me. Even John did not understand all the visions he was given as he would only see many of these things within his own time as even he could not understand future events as we do today and more so those after us.

 

[dwb001]

There you go again not answering what is asked of you, but only beating around the bush. When someone ask another for their understanding and they do not give it then we have to assume they know nothing as they evade as you are doing.

Please don't attack me personally... stick to the ideas.
I answered your question in detail. Please reread the above post if you remain confused.

The book of Revelation is my passion as well as all end time latter day events that are mention through out the Bible. I have studied Revelation in it's full, but yet some things still remain a mystery. Even after writing a book on Revelation there still remains mysteries that are being revealed to me. Even John did not understand all the visions he was given as he would only see many of these things within his own time as even he could not understand future events as we do today and more so those after us.

Revelation may be your passion project... but have you just read it. Not studied... not interpreted... just read it.
Many people can write a book about subjects they are not understanding correctly. So that is not a benefit to your argument.
John understood all of what he wrote... or could you show me the passage in which John says he has no idea what he is writing about? I may have missed that verse.
If you are still confused about the contents of Revelation... I suggest a reread.

 

[Dave Watchman]

John understood all of what he wrote... or could you show me the passage in which John says he has no idea what he is writing about? I may have missed that verse.

He didn't exactly say he had no idea.

Like when he was asking the elder in Chapter 7

"Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

"I answered, “Sir, you know.”

"And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

But when he said "Sir, you know, it sounded like I don't know, why don't you tell me. Or why are you asking me? You must know Sir.

And in Revelation 17 when one of the angels with the seven vials took John back stage to explain the composite beast from Chapter 13. If John understood it already, why would he need any clarification?

When I saw her, I marveled greatly. But the angel said to me, “Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her.​

If you are still confused about the contents of Revelation... I suggest a reread.

I will, and will again.

I always have a tab or two running in the browser.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[dwb001]

He didn't exactly say he had no idea.

Like when he was asking the elder in Chapter 7

"Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”​

​

"I answered, “Sir, you know.”​

​

"And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.​

But when he said "Sir, you know, it sounded like I don't know, why don't you tell me. Or why are you asking me? You must know Sir.

And in Revelation 17 when one of the angels with the seven vials took John back stage to explain the composite beast from Chapter 13. If John understood it already, why would he need any clarification?

When I saw her, I marveled greatly. But the angel said to me, “Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her.​

I will, and will again.

I always have a tab or two running in the browser.

Peaceful Sabbath.

So when taken as a whole picture... John understood what these things were...
Maybe understanding is not the best word here...
How about John accurately portrayed what he saw... and if we saw the vision we would say we saw exactly the same thing.
If an explanation was provided he accurately recorded that as well.

When the Beast rises from the sea... everyone who isn't fixated on their own ideas... people who are just trusting in John's description of the vision... will say "yep... that is what John saw".

 

[for_his_glory]

Please don't attack me personally... stick to the ideas.
I answered your question in detail. Please reread the above post if you remain confused.

Not attacking you, but pointing out a fact that you do not directly answer others. And no you did not tell me your understandings of Revelation, but only generalized the whole book.

Revelation may be your passion project... but have you just read it. Not studied... not interpreted... just read it.
Many people can write a book about subjects they are not understanding correctly. So that is not a benefit to your argument.
John understood all of what he wrote... or could you show me the passage in which John says he has no idea what he is writing about? I may have missed that verse.
If you are still confused about the contents of Revelation... I suggest a reread.

I do not need all this side stepping from you as this thread is about the black horse in Rev 6:5, but yet you have not given anyone your understanding within us discussing this topic. This is what I asked of you, but yet I have read nothing from you except your arguments about how others interpret these verses and how they should read Revelation.

I would like to hear your understanding of the black horse.

 

[for_his_glory]

So when taken as a whole picture... John understood what these things were...
Maybe understanding is not the best word here...
How about John accurately portrayed what he saw... and if we saw the vision we would say we saw exactly the same thing.
If an explanation was provided he accurately recorded that as well.

When the Beast rises from the sea... everyone who isn't fixated on their own ideas... people who are just trusting in John's description of the vision... will say "yep... that is what John saw".

How would John relate the black horse to his own time and comparing it to the future end of days?

 

[dwb001]

How would John relate the black horse to his own time and comparing it to the future end of days?

Why would John relate the black horse to his own time and compare it to the future end of days?

Ask the proper questions.. and get better answers.

 

[dwb001]

Not attacking you, but pointing out a fact that you do not directly answer others. And no you did not tell me your understandings of Revelation, but only generalized the whole book.

I do not need all this side stepping from you as this thread is about the black horse in Rev 6:5, but yet you have not given anyone your understanding within us discussing this topic. This is what I asked of you, but yet I have read nothing from you except your arguments about how others interpret these verses and how they should read Revelation.

I would like to hear your understanding of the black horse.

If you would refer to the Revelation section of this message board you would get my understanding of the black horse.

Yes I think everyone here(with some exceptions of course) are reading Revelation wrong.
If you just read the book and trust that it says what it says... then you will get a clearer picture.
I can't explain why some people think it has symbology that John included.
I can't understand why some people have to bring other prophecies to twist what Revelation says.
As an expert in the book of Revelation I am sure that you understand that Revelation is a stand alone work that does not lean on any other work in the Bible.
As the later revealed vision Revelation is the clearest vision... Other works are older and paler visions of the same time... maybe. But Revelation as the only commanded by Jesus book in the NT holds a unique position.

 

[miamited]

Hi dwb001

John understood all of what he wrote...

I doubt that. I don't think that any of the prophets of God understood a lot of what their words were actually meaning when it comes to prophecies made well into the future.

One of my favorite examples is Daniel 9. Daniel is visited by an angel of God and told that a day was coming that a decree would be issued. That from the issuance of that decree that a clock would start. That from the starting of that clock, a specific time had been established by God, when Messiah would be walking with us.

Daniel had no idea that there would ever be a decree! And Daniel surely didn't know 'when' that decree would come about. However, the timing of the issuance of the decree is the whole foundation on which God was telling us that Messiah would be here. Daniel couldn't have possibly known anything about the things that he was writing to us, except that it was something that God's angel had told him. Daniel wasn't even alive when the decree came about, so he didn't even get his 'aha' moment.

A lot of God's prophetic messages are pretty cryptic in their telling and what they say. Just as Jesus told his disciples in his day, "I speak in parables so that they may be ever hearing but never understanding." I'm pretty confident that God's old covenant writings and most especially the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, follows this pattern of speaking the truth, yet in a way that those of hard heart and stopped ears just don't hear.

That's why we have to spread the gospel and leave all the deep things of God and His word for those who accept it. They then have the Holy Spirit that gives them the understanding of these cryptic messages.

God bless,
Ted

 

[dwb001]

Hi dwb001


I doubt that. I don't think that any of the prophets of God understood a lot of what their words were actually meaning when it comes to prophecies made well into the future.

One of my favorite examples is Daniel 9. Daniel is visited by an angel of God and told that a day was coming that a decree would be issued. That from the issuance of that decree that a clock would start. That from the starting of that clock, a specific time had been established by God, when Messiah would be walking with us.

Daniel had no idea that there would ever be a decree! And Daniel surely didn't know 'when' that decree would come about. However, the timing of the issuance of the decree is the whole foundation on which God was telling us that Messiah would be here. Daniel couldn't have possibly known anything about the things that he was writing to us, except that it was something that God's angel had told him. Daniel wasn't even alive when the decree came about, so he didn't even get his 'aha' moment.

A lot of God's prophetic messages are pretty cryptic in their telling and what they say. Just as Jesus told his disciples in his day, "I speak in parables so that they may be ever hearing but never understanding." I'm pretty confident that God's old covenant writings and most especially the book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, follows this pattern of speaking the truth, yet in a way that those of hard heart and stopped ears just don't hear.

That's why we have to spread the gospel and leave all the deep things of God and His word for those who accept it. They then have the Holy Spirit that gives them the understanding of these cryptic messages.

God bless,
Ted

As you read a few posts later I admit that understand might have been a poor word choice.
Accurately represented the vision would probably been better.

 

[dwb001]

If you would refer to the Revelation section of this message board you would get my understanding of the black horse.

Yes I think everyone here(with some exceptions of course) are reading Revelation wrong.
If you just read the book and trust that it says what it says... then you will get a clearer picture.
I can't explain why some people think it has symbology that John included.
I can't understand why some people have to bring other prophecies to twist what Revelation says.
As an expert in the book of Revelation I am sure that you understand that Revelation is a stand alone work that does not lean on any other work in the Bible.
As the later revealed vision Revelation is the clearest vision... Other works are older and paler visions of the same time... maybe. But Revelation as the only commanded by Jesus book in the NT holds a unique position.

Couldn't edit this post so I will just reply to myself.
My mistake... I posted my thoughts on the pale horse... not the black horse.
Whoops

 

[miamited]

Hi dwb001

All good! I admit I didn't connect the two posts. However, now you have a good example to tell people why that likely is.

God bless,
Ted

 

[for_his_glory]

Why would John relate the black horse to his own time and compare it to the future end of days?

Ask the proper questions.. and get better answers.

Because what John wrote was for the latter days as this was a proper question that again you refuse to answer. I am trying to have a discussion with you, but you keep evading my questions