The Book of Zephaniah

[reba]

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[Elijah674]

There are at least two aspects to the Lord's coming. One relates to the church: the coming of the Lord Jesus for his church, or the rapture, as in 1 Thess. 4.

Another aspect relates to the Lord's coming in power and glory on earth. The church isn't in the Old Testament, and the fulfilment of many of the prophecies of the Old Testament are still in the future.

Hey! don't trust your luck;). 'i' was agreeing with your previous post, I think?
But, No rapture from this end seen! Just the dead in Christ coming up in the FIRST Resurection & the living being caught up together with them, while the dead out of Christ stay dead & Christ's second coming will slay all of the rest of the wicked & they will all stay dead until the 1000 yrs. are past. (1 Cor. 6:2-3 + 2 Thess. 2:8-9)

Jer. 4:22-27 has this prophesied down to the very letter! Who only was here on desolate earth before God created it?

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

'i' almost wonder if I should say that I agree? Let me say that I do agree with this post + scripture!

I also like Acts 7's TESTIMONY of Stephen... and it says that he was filled with the Holy Ghost. Note verse...
[38] This is he, that was in the [[church]] in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

And one more? 1 Cor. 10...
[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
[2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
[3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and [[that Rock was Christ.]]


Exod. 25... (OK: Just one more!)

[8] And let them make me a sanctuary; that [I may dwell among them.]
[9] [[According]] to all that I shew thee, after [[the pattern]] of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

I quite! But you can go to Rev. + Heb. and find where this pattern is patterened from!

--Elijah

 

[Lloyd]

Not all 70ad posters believe the same... I would fall into the the 70 ad slot, but i am looking for His return!

Hi Reba,

Apologies. I didn't mean to put anyone into a bracket, and apologies to anyone else who felt that way.

It was a very general statement, just aimed towards the more 70AD line of thought - hope that's cool.

Cheers,
Lloyd.

 

[reba]

Hi Reba,

Apologies. I didn't mean to put anyone into a bracket, and apologies to anyone else who felt that way.

It was a very general statement, just aimed towards the more 70AD line of thought - hope that's cool.

Cheers,
Lloyd.

Yup Cool...
There are a couple full preterest around here. Most are what seems to be labeled orthodox preterest. None of us like labels but they do help us know about the other guy...

 

[Sinthesis]

So, what was meant here?

Zephaniah 1

New International Version (NIV)

1 The word of the Lord that came to Zephaniah son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hezekiah, during the reign of Josiah son of Amon king of Judah:
Judgment on the Whole Earth in the Day of the Lord

2 “I will sweep away everything
from the face of the earth,â€
declares the Lord.
3 “I will sweep away both man and beast;
I will sweep away the birds in the sky
and the fish in the sea—
and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble.â€[a]

“When I destroy all mankind
on the face of the earth,â€
declares the Lord,

18 Neither their silver nor their gold
will be able to save them
on the day of the Lord’s wrath.†In the fire of his jealousy
the whole earth will be consumed,
for he will make a sudden end
of all who live on the earth.


When did that happen? Or are you saying "whole earth" actually doesnt relate to the whole earth?

Appreciate the input.

I'm not a full preterist. I'm still waiting on Jesus.

Read other commonly accepted translations of Zephaniah as well as the NIV; and read all three chapters. The "whole earth" is also translated as "land". It is a prophecy of judgment upon Judah as a demonstration of God's sovereignty both to His People and the gentiles.

Zep 1:13 - Therefore their goods shall become a booty, and their houses a desolation: they shall also build houses, but not inhabit [them]; and they shall plant vineyards, but not drink the wine thereof.​

A booty to who? A booty to Nebuchadnezzar. Nebuchadnezzar's booty:eyebrow

Zep 3:20 - At that time will I bring you [again], even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the LORD.​

If the whole earth has been scraped clean of mankind, then who are these people of the earth? Look at the words translated as "earth" by the NIV in both the second and last verses of Zephaniah. Are they the same? Clearly this is a local Day-of-the-Lord.:onfire

 

[Elijah674]

I'm not a full preterist. I'm still waiting on Jesus.

Read other commonly accepted translations of Zephaniah as well as the NIV; and read all three chapters. The "whole earth" is also translated as "land". It is a prophecy of judgment upon Judah as a demonstration of God's sovereignty both to His People and the gentiles.

Zep 1:13 - Therefore their goods shall become a booty, and their houses a desolation: they shall also build houses, but not inhabit [them]; and they shall plant vineyards, but not drink the wine thereof.
​

A booty to who? A booty to Nebuchadnezzar. Nebuchadnezzar's booty:eyebrow

Zep 3:20 - At that time will I bring you [again], even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the LORD.
​

If the whole earth has been scraped clean of mankind, then who are these people of the earth? Look at the words translated as "earth" by the NIV in both the second and last verses of Zephaniah. Are they the same? Clearly this is a local Day-of-the-Lord.:onfire

:yescute. But 'i' don't buy it!
Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 Documents for me that it will ALL be repeated unless God say's differently! (not you)

And repeated?? you say...'If the whole earth has been scraped clean of mankind, then who are these people of the earth?' See if you can you get anything from Jer. 4:22-27?? (NO MAN!) Earth is to be emptied of mankind during the 1000 yrs. of the wicked executional judgement. Then will be resurected to die the second eternal death at the ending of the 1000 yrs. (that is the Bibles hell) Then the heaven's & all earth will be recreated and inhabited as is fortold. (by the saints)

This speaks of earth's new creation Rev. 21:1 + 5

--Elijah

 

[Cyberseeker]

So, what was meant here?


1 The word of the Lord that came to Zephaniah son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hezekiah, during the reign of Josiah son of Amon king of Judah:

2 “I will sweep away everything
from the face of the earth,â€
declares the Lord.
3 “I will sweep away both man and beast;
I will sweep away the birds in the sky
and the fish in the sea—
and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble.â€
“When I destroy all mankind
on the face of the earth,â€
declares the Lord,

18 Neither their silver nor their gold
will be able to save them
on the day of the Lord’s wrath.†In the fire of his jealousy
the whole earth will be consumed,
for he will make a sudden end
of all who live on the earth.


When did that happen? Or are you saying "whole earth" actually doesnt relate to the whole earth?

Appreciate the input.

Good question. I believe this is one of those visions that had a near/far fulfillment. Its 'near fulfillment' speaks of the conquests of Babylon. However it is also a precursor of the 'day of the Lord' which is to come!

Its 'far fulfillment' speaks of the end of the world outlined in 2 Peter 3:10.

 

[Elijah674]

I referred above to Hebrews 11: there were many in the Old Testament who were justified by faith. And then at the end of the chapter it definitely states that a new period was begun.

The verse quoted about David asking that the Holy Spirit not be taken from him is indication that the Spirit did not indwell believers, as He has done since Pentecost, when the church began.

Your post material sure DOES NOT AGREE with God's Holy Spirit INSPIRED WORD!

Acts 7:38 Has CHRIST IN THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS! And Stephen was FILLED with the Holly Ghost speaking of that time.

Paul states for us to NOT BE IGNORANT (ME!) that it was Christ the ROCK which FOLLOWED THEM!

And you post what??

How much more could Christ do in the O.T. than GIVE ONE A NEW HEART + MIND?????

1 Sam. 10
[6] And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
.....
[9] And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day.

Let me just add that the Holy Spirit was sent back in the N.T. to make Christ OMNIPRESENT, but not to Testify of Himself. (Holy Spirit) Meaning that Christ/God of the O.T. was NO LESS POWERFUL than what the Holy Spirit is as seen in the N.T. Think of the wonderous Miracles that Christ God did in the OT as well!!!

What was lacking, is that Adam LOST EARTH'S DOMAIN to satan (Matt. 4:8-9) and THE GODHEAD allowed satan to 'testify' what his rule would do! Nah. 1:9

But the point is that Christ had only LIMITED SPACE TO WORK FROM. That was one reason that the Godhead had the Sanctuary Constructed as heavens pattern, to [[WORK AS CHRIST/GOD]] from. Exod. 25:8-9!

And Gen. 41:37-38! + Exod. 31:3! + Psalms 51:10-11!, + Isa. 63:11 & on & on!

--Elijah

 

[John 8:32]

Not all 70ad posters believe the same... I would fall into the the 70 ad slot, but i am looking for His return!

How can you when all is fulfilled in 70 AD? An honest question. How do you determine when the break is?

 

[reba]

How can you when all is fulfilled in 70 AD? An honest question. How do you determine when the break is?

Not following your question.:dunno

 

[John 8:32]

Not following your question.:dunno

If you believe that all is fulfilled in 70 AD, wouldn't that include the return of Christ? If not, how do you delineate between the events of Mat 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 etc. that lead up to the return and the actual return itself?

 

[reba]

If you believe that all is fulfilled in 70 AD, wouldn't that include the return of Christ? If not, how do you delineate between the events of Mat 24, Mark 13, Luke 21 etc. that lead up to the return and the actual return itself?

What i believe Mat, Mark and Luke are speaking of is the end of the age, the end of 'temple' life. The destruction of 'man built' temple. The destruction of Jerusalem. The end of blood sacrifices.

 

[John 8:32]

What i believe Mat, Mark and Luke are speaking of is the end of the age, the end of 'temple' life. The destruction of 'man built' temple. The destruction of Jerusalem. The end of blood sacrifices.

Oh, I see. Do you see the return of Christ as a literal event? If so is it future?

 

[reba]

Breaking all the 'rules' of posting in forums my answers to your double question!
Yes
Yes
:yes

 

[watchman333]

Thank you. I really enjoyed the back & forth. My thinking is, to truly understand prophecy we must remember what Paul taught, that the things which befell Israel were given to us for examples. There are double prophecies everywhere in the Bible, including the book of Zephaniah. It is my belief that the LORD was speaking to what was to befall Judah, but was also telling us what is to befall all of mankind in the day of the LORD.

 

[Elijah674]

Breaking all the 'rules' of posting in forums my answers to your double question!
Yes
Yes
:yes

So what you agee on is that the prophecy of Matt. 24 has several (two at least) application, + this one with only one second bodily coming? + possibly a couple others only have one? What is wrong with that??

And because I believe this also, am I to be labeled that I am a preterist one?
God say so does He not?? Eccl. 3:15!

--Elijah

 

[cupid dave]

There are at least two aspects to the Lord's coming. One relates to the church: the coming of the Lord Jesus for his church, or the rapture, as in 1 Thess. 4.

Another aspect relates to the Lord's coming in power and glory on earth. The church isn't in the Old Testament, and the fulfilment of many of the prophecies of the Old Testament are still in the future.

Hmmm....

It is pretty much over since the 1000 years of Jesus reigning throughout the Dark Ages in the days of Christian monasticism was the rapture and the burning up of the old earth as it was previously understood to be:


Zech. 13:1 In that day, (32 AD), there shall be a fountain opened, (Christ flowing from the New Testament), to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, (the Jews), for sin and for uncleanness.

Zech. 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, (beginning in 325 AD, with the conversion of Constantine), saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols (of mythological and astrological Gods) out of the land (of Roman Empire), and they, (the pagans), shall no more be remembered, (both Greek and Roman mythologies were banned): and also I will cause the prophets (of Judaism and even Christianity) and the unclean (psychic) spirit (of men, their lustful Libidinal cultural excesses) to pass out of the land (of the entire Western Culture during a 1000 years of Monasticism).

 

[Elijah674]

Hmmm....

It is pretty much over since the 1000 years of Jesus reigning throughout the Dark Ages in the days of Christian monasticism was the rapture and the burning up of the old earth as it was previously understood to be:


Zech. 13:1 In that day, (32 AD), there shall be a fountain opened, (Christ flowing from the New Testament), to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, (the Jews), for sin and for uncleanness.

Zech. 13:2 And it shall come to pass in that day, (beginning in 325 AD, with the conversion of Constantine), saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols (of mythological and astrological Gods) out of the land (of Roman Empire), and they, (the pagans), shall no more be remembered, (both Greek and Roman mythologies were banned): and also I will cause the prophets (of Judaism and even Christianity) and the unclean (psychic) spirit (of men, their lustful Libidinal cultural excesses) to pass out of the land (of the entire Western Culture during a 1000 years of Monasticism).

It is good to have 'certain postings' here as 'i' see it, for the ones to see the time/frame that earth is shaping up to be! [End Time!]
Jude 1
[12] These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

--Elijah

 

[watchman333]

I know I'm a newbie, but if I could interject just a few thoughts about the book of Zephaniah it would be appreciated. When God says, "The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and it hasteth greatly" we might accept that it has not happened yet. Then if we go to chapter 2 where He says, "Gaza shall be forsaken" and we know it has been, we can understand He is speaking to this final generation. Then, if you will indulge me in my belief that the children of Ammon and Moab are the Palestinians, and the LORD tells us "they have reproached My People and magnified themselves against their border" and because of this, "the residue of My People shall spoil them, and the remnant of My People shall possess them" we can understand that our Father is talking about present day Jerusalem and He is totally in control of this situation. In fact, all of the prophecies concerning Ammon & Moab fit the Palestinians to a T. Check it out should you care to, especially the battles of Jehu and Jehosephat. Thanks, just some thoughts.