The Chair of Peter

[Mungo]

That is not what the Bible says! It says in Scripture that Peter was the apostle to the Jews. Ample demonstration by you doesn't equate with God's word.

Where in Scripture does it say that God sent Peter to the Gentiles? (BTW, God doesn't lie or contradict Himself).

And from Walpole

This idea that Peter was precluded from taking the Gospel to the gentiles is easily disproven from Scripture. Here is St. Peter speaking at the Council of Jerusalem. He could not be any more explicit.

Acts 15:6-11: The apostles and the elders met together to consider this matter. After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "My brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that I should be the one through whom THE GENTILES would hear the message of the good news and become believers. And God, who knows the human heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he did to us; and in cleansing their hearts by faith he has made no distinction between them and us. Now therefore why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear? On the contrary, we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”


Here is another example, this time from none other than St. Paul, when he had to confront St. Peter for his hypocrisy...

Gal 2:14: But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, "If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?"

Who was St. Peter preaching the Gospel to?

The Gentiles!

 

[God Is My Judge]

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church [singular] and the gates of Hades will not overcome it [singular]. (Mt 16:18)

Jesus founded one Church.
Jesus has one Body.
Jesus has one Bride.

No kidding, and a play on Peter does not make you it- the Rock. With or without you Peter is still called Cepha. You are not the determining factor of that. Doing as Peter does- 1. Peter took correction and was humble for that. Seems to be a problem with that for Catholics. And since Christ is all about obedience to the truth there seems to be a problem. Since the RCC did not coin truth but must follow it, it is safe to say, unless you hold only to the truth, those who don't will be cut off. That branches thingy Paul spoke about. Sorry Mungo, you and yours are not impervious to that no matter what you say. You don't do right, you are cut off. If you think it is a wrap you limit your existence to temporal, all because of temper and lack of tempering it. The gospel is eternal. If you think once you know the truth you are not supposed to proclaim it, wrong! Due to wanting acceptance in denominational universal opinion in nontruth you are nothing like Peter nor is your pope. There is ONE truth period!

 

[God Is My Judge]

Jesus founded one Church.
Jesus has one Body.
Jesus has one Bride.

Yup! And that ONE Body is going to get a good shaking in order for the fleas to be shaken off. A lot has happened and come about among denominations since the first to know. Hence, the end of the age. A lot going to go down. Will you be left standing? I know I will by standing on the legs of Christ as Faithful and True.

 

[God Is My Judge]

I overlooked this one instance.

Instance of what?

 

[God Is My Judge]

Mungo, Romans 12:

Living Sacrifices
1Therefore I urge you, brothers, on account of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God. 3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but think of yourself with sober judgment, according to the measure of faith God has given you.…

 

[jaybo]

Instance of what?

When Peter was in Galatia and Paul sternly rebuked him for his hypocrisy.

Galatians 2:11-14, " But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he had clearly done wrong. Until certain people came from James, he had been eating with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he stopped doing this and separated himself because he was afraid of those who were pro-circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also joined with him in this hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was led astray with them by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not behaving consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “If you, although you are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you try to force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

Never forget what Jesus said to him: "But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.”

He never said anything close to that to any of the other apostles!

Peter was obviously a very conflicted, flawed man. He was the apostle to the Jews, but acted hypocritically, and Paul called him on it. Paul accused him of not behaving consistently with the truth of the gospel.

So, Jesus called him "Satan" and said he was a stumbling block (clearly contrasting with "on this rock I will build my church"). He accused him of setting his mind on man's interests, not God's.

Paul called him a hypocrite who didn't behave according to the gospel.

And this is the man who Catholics revere (in their own history) as the first Pope! Something is very definitely wrong here!!!

 

[God Is My Judge]

When Peter was in Galatia and Paul sternly rebuked him for his hypocrisy.

Galatians 2:11-14, " But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he had clearly done wrong. Until certain people came from James, he had been eating with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he stopped doing this and separated himself because he was afraid of those who were pro-circumcision. And the rest of the Jews also joined with him in this hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was led astray with them by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not behaving consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “If you, although you are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you try to force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

Never forget what Jesus said to him: "But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.”

He never said anything close to that to any of the other apostles!

Peter was obviously a very conflicted, flawed man. He was the apostle to the Jews, but acted hypocritically, and Paul called him on it. Paul accused him of not behaving consistently with the truth of the gospel.

So, Jesus called him "Satan" and said he was a stumbling block (clearly contrasting with "on this rock I will build my church"). He accused him of setting his mind on man's interests, not God's.

Paul called him a hypocrite who didn't behave according to the gospel.

And this is the man who Catholics revere (in their own history) as the first Pope! Something is very definitely wrong here!!!

The only thing going wrong here is the lack of seeing that Peter with all his flaws and shortcomings was very humble. Do you know how many people cling to false doctrine because of their pride? Think about it? Christ called Peter's fallen nature satan and for that to get behind Him. Imagine! Most people would have said ahhhh forget it! I can't do this! Not Peter. No matter how far he fell, he trusted in the Lord's Grace and Mercy and would get back up again! Definitely an example for us to trust in the Lord and not lean on our own understanding. Point is, most calling themselves Christian cannot tolerate correction. Says a lot about what humble before the Lord means. I dare not lay any accusation against Peter, he ran his race and won! I learn from his example and know Peter was a wise man who feared the Lord.
Proverbs 9:
The Way of Wisdom
…8Do not rebuke a mocker, or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man, and he will love you. 9Instruct a wise man, and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning. 10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.…

 

[Walpole]

John 21:15-17: When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

The Greek word our Blessed Lord uses the second time he commands Peter to "tend," is poimanao, which means "to rule." This is the same Greek word used in Matt 2:6, Rev 2:27, 12:5, and 19:15 which describes the rule of Jesus Himself.

"He saith to him, 'Feed my sheep. Why does He pass over the others and speak of the sheep to Peter? He was the chosen one of the Apostles, the mouth of the disciples, the head of the choir. For this reason Paul went up to see him rather than the others. And also to show him that he must have confidence now that his denial had been purged away. He entrusts him with the rule [prostasia] over the brethren...If anyone should say 'Why then was it James who received the See of Jerusalem?', I should reply that He made Peter the teacher not of that see but of the whole world." - St. John Chrysostom, Homily 88 on John

 

[Niblo]

John 21:15-17: When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

The Greek word our Blessed Lord uses the second time he commands Peter to "tend," is poimanao, which means "to rule." This is the same Greek word used in Matt 2:6, Rev 2:27, 12:5, and 19:15 which describes the rule of Jesus Himself.

"He saith to him, 'Feed my sheep. Why does He pass over the others and speak of the sheep to Peter? He was the chosen one of the Apostles, the mouth of the disciples, the head of the choir. For this reason Paul went up to see him rather than the others. And also to show him that he must have confidence now that his denial had been purged away. He entrusts him with the rule [prostasia] over the brethren...If anyone should say 'Why then was it James who received the See of Jerusalem?', I should reply that He made Peter the teacher not of that see but of the whole world." - St. John Chrysostom, Homily 88 on John

Excellent!

 

[jaybo]

Instance of what?

Of Peter communicating with the Gentiles, specifically Cornelius.

 

[jaybo]

The only thing going wrong here is the lack of seeing that Peter with all his flaws and shortcomings was very humble. Do you know how many people cling to false doctrine because of their pride? Think about it? Christ called Peter's fallen nature satan and for that to get behind Him. Imagine! Most people would have said ahhhh forget it! I can't do this! Not Peter. No matter how far he fell, he trusted in the Lord's Grace and Mercy and would get back up again! Definitely an example for us to trust in the Lord and not lean on our own understanding. Point is, most calling themselves Christian cannot tolerate correction. Says a lot about what humble before the Lord means. I dare not lay any accusation against Peter, he ran his race and won! I learn from his example and know Peter was a wise man who feared the Lord.
Proverbs 9:
The Way of Wisdom
…8Do not rebuke a mocker, or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man, and he will love you. 9Instruct a wise man, and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning. 10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.…

You're joking, right? There was nobody else whom Jesus called "Satan" and "a stumbling block". Do you think that the man whom Catholics call their rock and the first Pope should be praised for his weak character? Should the weak and confused be in positions of leadership? If so, you disgaree with what the Bible clearly says are the requirements for leadership.

Finally, every time I read something like "most calling themselves Christian cannot tolerate correction" I immediately see self-righteousness ... "I am better than most Christians". Matthew 23:11, "The greatest among you will be your servant."

 

[God Is My Judge]

You're joking, right? There was nobody else whom Jesus called "Satan" and "a stumbling block". Do you think that the man whom Catholics call their rock and the first Pope should be praised for his weak character? Should the weak and confused be in positions of leadership? If so, you disgaree with what the Bible clearly says are the requirements for leadership.

Finally, every time I read something like "most calling themselves Christian cannot tolerate correction" I immediately see self-righteousness ... "I am better than most Christians". Matthew 23:11, "The greatest among you will be your servant."

Ok buddy.So, now you presume to judge Peter being of strong character as you are I suppose? And I'm self righteous? Lol! Ironic. I guess you wont be quoting from his weak charater writings either now? So, let me see, you went from nondenominational to protestant, to Peter's judge and jury in a matter of what? a week? Wow! as I said IRONIC! Sometimes I just gotta walk away. Not even Michael would lay such charges against a dignity of the Lord.I I'll say as he said to satan -"The Lord contend with you!"

 

[jaybo]

John 21:15-17: When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.

The Greek word our Blessed Lord uses the second time he commands Peter to "tend," is poimanao, which means "to rule." This is the same Greek word used in Matt 2:6, Rev 2:27, 12:5, and 19:15 which describes the rule of Jesus Himself.

"He saith to him, 'Feed my sheep. Why does He pass over the others and speak of the sheep to Peter? He was the chosen one of the Apostles, the mouth of the disciples, the head of the choir. For this reason Paul went up to see him rather than the others. And also to show him that he must have confidence now that his denial had been purged away. He entrusts him with the rule [prostasia] over the brethren...If anyone should say 'Why then was it James who received the See of Jerusalem?', I should reply that He made Peter the teacher not of that see but of the whole world." - St. John Chrysostom, Homily 88 on John

Then why didn't the translators use the word "rule" instead of "tend". Your "on the fly" changing of Scripture doesn't mean anything. In fact, I would be very careful if I were you not to change God's words to your own.

Why not read the 23rd psalm to see the relationship of the Lord to His sheep?

 

[jaybo]

The only thing going wrong here is the lack of seeing that Peter with all his flaws and shortcomings was very humble. Do you know how many people cling to false doctrine because of their pride? Think about it? Christ called Peter's fallen nature satan and for that to get behind Him. Imagine! Most people would have said ahhhh forget it! I can't do this! Not Peter. No matter how far he fell, he trusted in the Lord's Grace and Mercy and would get back up again! Definitely an example for us to trust in the Lord and not lean on our own understanding. Point is, most calling themselves Christian cannot tolerate correction. Says a lot about what humble before the Lord means. I dare not lay any accusation against Peter, he ran his race and won! I learn from his example and know Peter was a wise man who feared the Lord.
Proverbs 9:
The Way of Wisdom
…8Do not rebuke a mocker, or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man, and he will love you. 9Instruct a wise man, and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning. 10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.…

Every time I read something like "most calling themselves Christian cannot tolerate correction" I think, why has pride blinded this person? Can you tolerate correction, or are you just interested in pontificating? How do you know about most Christians anyway? Have you extensively surveyed the body of Christ to arrive at your near-universal judgement?

 

[God Is My Judge]

Every time I read something like "most calling themselves Christian cannot tolerate correction" I think, why has pride blinded this person? Can you tolerate correction, or are you just interested in pontificating? How do you know about most Christians anyway? Have you extensively surveyed the body of Christ to arrive at your near-universal judgement?

Lol! As I said IRONIC! This coming from one calling Peter's character weak.....As for me tolerating correction I most definitely would love correction on something. You probably are most qualified since you know soooo much about Cepha and all. So, what would you like to "correct" first? Oh yes my self righteousness, I mean after all, someone with your stature is more than qualified to correct me after putting Cepha in his proper place. I bet none of us knew, youu probably even contributed to the Holy Bible, I mean only the Word after all could judge Cepha an Elect among Jews as you have. Though he is one of the 24 elders none of us should consider him a papa of sorts over any assembly. The Lord contend with you!

 

[Walpole]

Then why didn't the translators use the word "rule" instead of "tend". Your "on the fly" changing of Scripture doesn't mean anything. In fact, I would be very careful if I were you not to change God's words to your own.

I didn't change anything. I didn't pen Scripture.

You are aware the New Testament was not written in English, yes?

The fact is John 21:16 says, "poimainō / ποιμαίνω", which means to rule / govern. It comes from the root word poimēn, which means to shepherd / pastor.

The English word tend I think captures it just fine...

Tend
a : to apply oneself to the care of : watch overtended her sick father
b: to have or take charge of as a caretaker or overseertend the sheep


So does Rule
a: to exert control, direction, or influence onthe passions that rule our minds

Why not read the 23rd psalm to see the relationship of the Lord to His sheep?

Reading your posts, sometimes I think you believe Peter's story ends with his denying Christ. It's as if you refuse to see how his story ends.

Christianity is an incarnational religion. The Church is an extension of the Incarnation. (cf. 1 Cor 12:12-30) Thus she has shepherds only because Christ is THE Shepherd.

This encounter with Peter and Jesus on the shore is so full of importance I wish I had time this evening to expound on it. Here are some important things with tremendous theological significance regarding this encounter to ponder:

- Peter sees Jesus on the shore and immediately clothes himself (John 21:7)
- Jesus is standing by a charcoal fire (John 21:9)
- The other disciples together were not able to bring in their large catch of fish (John 21:6)
- What multiple disciples were unable to do, Peter ALONE is able to do and brings in the large catch of fish (John 21:11)
- Jesus questions Peter three times (John 21:17)
- Jesus switches between lambs and sheep (John 21:15-17)
- Jesus switches between feed and tend (rule) (John 21:16)

Maybe more later if I get some time.

 

[jaybo]

The only thing going wrong here is the lack of seeing that Peter with all his flaws and shortcomings was very humble. Do you know how many people cling to false doctrine because of their pride? Think about it? Christ called Peter's fallen nature satan and for that to get behind Him. Imagine! Most people would have said ahhhh forget it! I can't do this! Not Peter. No matter how far he fell, he trusted in the Lord's Grace and Mercy and would get back up again! Definitely an example for us to trust in the Lord and not lean on our own understanding. Point is, most calling themselves Christian cannot tolerate correction. Says a lot about what humble before the Lord means. I dare not lay any accusation against Peter, he ran his race and won! I learn from his example and know Peter was a wise man who feared the Lord.
Proverbs 9:
The Way of Wisdom
…8Do not rebuke a mocker, or he will hate you; rebuke a wise man, and he will love you. 9Instruct a wise man, and he will be wiser still; teach a righteous man, and he will increase his learning. 10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.…

Once I encounter this in anyone's post -- "most calling themselves Christian cannot tolerate correction" -- I stop reading. It is nothing but self-righteous judging of others.

 

[jaybo]

I didn't change anything. I didn't pen Scripture.

You are aware the New Testament was not written in English, yes?

The fact is John 21:16 says, "poimainō / ποιμαίνω", which means to rule / govern. It comes from the root word poimēn, which means to shepherd / pastor.

The English word tend I think captures it just fine...

Tend
a : to apply oneself to the care of : watch overtended her sick father
b: to have or take charge of as a caretaker or overseertend the sheep


So does Rule
a: to exert control, direction, or influence onthe passions that rule our minds


Reading your posts, sometimes I think you believe Peter's story ends with his denying Christ. It's as if you refuse to see how his story ends.

Christianity is an incarnational religion. The Church is an extension of the Incarnation. (cf. 1 Cor 12:12-30) Thus she has shepherds only because Christ is THE Shepherd.

This encounter with Peter and Jesus on the shore is so full of importance I wish I had time this evening to expound on it. Here are some important things with tremendous theological significance regarding this encounter to ponder:

- Peter sees Jesus on the shore and immediately clothes himself (John 21:7)
- Jesus is standing by a charcoal fire (John 21:9)
- The other disciples together were not able to bring in their large catch of fish (John 21:6)
- What multiple disciples were unable to do, Peter ALONE is able to do and brings in the large catch of fish (John 21:11)
- Jesus questions Peter three times (John 21:17)
- Jesus switches between lambs and sheep (John 21:15-17)
- Jesus switches between feed and tend (rule) (John 21:16)

Maybe more later if I get some time.

When you get time, read Galatians, chapter 2 Paul refers to Peter as the apostle to the Jews, and criticizes him for his hypocrisy.

 

[andy pandy]

Homosexuality has nothing to do with this topic either. Please take this argument no further.

I didn't bring it up and as I am not a catholic you are not my overseer.

 

[Mungo]

I didn't bring it up and as I am not a catholic you are not my overseer.

I oversee the Catholicism Forum.
So when you post here I am your overseer.