The difference between the rapture and the second coming

[MysticalJourney]

I am also new to this thread. I read the first page, then skipped to give my take (or should I say the Greek's) on one verse in particular, on which most of this rapture business is based. Unless I posted in this thread before? Having a few memory issues lately, because of fibro and Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Just to give a heads up, I agree with the poster on the first page, that Jesus only returns once. Twice in total - the incarnation being the first time, the second time being the Second Coming. No "secret" rapture in the middle.

"Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." 1 Thess. 4:17

In the Greek, it says:

"ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα." 1 Thess. 4:17

The word that gives so much trouble is ἀπάντησιν pronounced apantesin. It is rarely used in the Bible, so Paul (inspired by God, of course) wrote a very specific word here for the word "meet". It is not meet and go away to heaven. It in fact, is meet and return. The word had a technical meaning in the Hellenistic world related to the visists of dignitaries to cities where the visitor would be formally met by the citizens, or a deputation of them, who went out from the city and would then cermonially escort him back into the city.

It is also used in Acts 28:15 where Paul is met by a delegation, who then escort him back to Rome. Please note they went out so far (the Forum of Appius) but they didn't go any farther, meaning they returned with Paul.

"And the brothers there, when they heard about us, came as far as the Forum of Appius and Three Taverns to meet us. On seeing them, Paul thanked God and took courage." Acts 28:15.

Thus, the concept of a rapture, which is only a word in the Latin Vulgate, translated by Jerome for the Catholic Church in the 4th century AD, is not really Biblical.

In fact, this has been the long time Biblical view of Christians since the early church, and esp. after the Reformation. This doctrine was created by Darby and Scofield in the 19th century, and really popularized by the fiction books of Hal Lindsay and the Left Behind series of Tim LaHaye. That's right, the fiction, best sellers!

Sorry if this seems like debating or arguing, but it is in fact, what the Greek says, and too many people believe TV preachers and fiction book writers than the actual Bible in the original languages.

 

[n2thelight]

At the rapture Christ does not appear on the Earth.He meets the Church in the air.

Christ appears in the air(we are gathered) and from there to Jerusalem,not Heaven,one event,the 2nd coming....The only way one gets to Heven before the return of Christ,is to die first....Christ does not take anyone to Heaven when He returns......

 

[JLB]

I am also new to this thread. I read the first page, then skipped to give my take (or should I say the Greek's) on one verse in particular, on which most of this rapture business is based. Unless I posted in this thread before? Having a few memory issues lately, because of fibro and Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Just to give a heads up, I agree with the poster on the first page, that Jesus only returns once. Twice in total - the incarnation being the first time, the second time being the Second Coming. No "secret" rapture in the middle.

"Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." 1 Thess. 4:17

In the Greek, it says:

"ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα· καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα." 1 Thess. 4:17

The word that gives so much trouble is ἀπάντησιν pronounced apantesin. It is rarely used in the Bible, so Paul (inspired by God, of course) wrote a very specific word here for the word "meet". It is not meet and go away to heaven. It in fact, is meet and return. The word had a technical meaning in the Hellenistic world related to the visists of dignitaries to cities where the visitor would be formally met by the citizens, or a deputation of them, who went out from the city and would then cermonially escort him back into the city.

It is also used in Acts 28:15 where Paul is met by a delegation, who then escort him back to Rome. Please note they went out so far (the Forum of Appius) but they didn't go any farther, meaning they returned with Paul.

"And the brothers there, when they heard about us, came as far as the Forum of Appius and Three Taverns to meet us. On seeing them, Paul thanked God and took courage." Acts 28:15.

Thus, the concept of a rapture, which is only a word in the Latin Vulgate, translated by Jerome for the Catholic Church in the 4th century AD, is not really Biblical.

In fact, this has been the long time Biblical view of Christians since the early church, and esp. after the Reformation. This doctrine was created by Darby and Scofield in the 19th century, and really popularized by the fiction books of Hal Lindsay and the Left Behind series of Tim LaHaye. That's right, the fiction, best sellers!

Sorry if this seems like debating or arguing, but it is in fact, what the Greek says, and too many people believe TV preachers and fiction book writers than the actual Bible in the original languages.

 

[JLB]

Christ appears in the air(we are gathered) and from there to Jerusalem,not Heaven,one event,the 2nd coming....The only way one gets to Heven before the return of Christ,is to die first....Christ does not take anyone to Heaven when He returns......

Well said!

There are scriptures to validate this Coming to Jerusalem.

1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. Zechariah 14:1-4

and again -

8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." 9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." 12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey. Acts 1:8-12

He went up from them at the Mount of Olives, and so will return there.


He will sit on His Throne in Jerusalem, and reign from there as King.


And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:17

and again -

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 25:31-32



JLB

 

[n2thelight]

In the Twinkling of an Eye?
What event was Paul referring to when he wrote, “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye...” 1 Corinthians 15:52.
Once again there are those who try to apply this to Christians suddenly disappearing in what they call the rapture. The theory is that this verse is saying that in less than the time it takes to blink that true Christians will be raptured away before the Tribulation and the coming of the Antichrist. But is this what Paul meant or is this one of the many “fables” (see 2 Timothy 4:4) taught as in these last days?
Reading the entire passage reveals the real truth that Paul was trying to convey in easy to understand words, “Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.” 1 Corinthians 15:51-53.

The following facts provide the real truth:

1. Paul says this takes place “at the last trump,” and not seven years before.
2. At this time “the trumpet shall sound.” Hence it will be quiet but VERY loud!
3. Paul did not say it was the return of Christ that happens in the twinkling of an eye.
4. He says it is the changing of the bodies of true believers from mortality to immortality.
5. So 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 is not teaching the sudden disappearance of Christians at all but the LOUD return of Christ when the final trumpet sounds and at the “instant” true believers put on immortality at the end of this world.

Do we go through the Great Tribulation?
The question should be is when have God's people ever escaped tribulation. From Genesis to Revelation all God's children have always gone through tribulation. If you search for the word tribulation in the New Testament, you will find that almost every reference is about what Christians go through, rather than what they escape from.
The Apostle John said, “These things I have spoken unto you, that in me you might have peace. In the world you shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.” (John 16:33)
Paul told Christians, “We through much tribulation must enter the kingdom of God.” (Acts 14:22)
And God’s faithful people “came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Revelation 7:14) They did not escape tribulation but endured through it and were purified.
We also find in Revelation that when Jesus returns unexpectedly as a thief at His second coming that the angels have just finished pouring out the sixth plague upon those who received the mark of the beast. So this also reveals that we are here during the tribulation. God’s faithful ones who did not get the mark of the beast are of course protected from the plagues. “And the sixth angel poured out his vial (sixth plague) upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.” (Revelation 16:12, 15)

And what about the elect described in the passage below? The elect are the true and faithful believers and Jesus assured us that the time of tribulation will be shortened or no one would survive. There would of course be no need for the great tribulation period to be shortened if His people were already in heaven now would there?
Matthew 24:21-22 “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.”

Note what Paul said about going through tribulation in Romans 5:3-4 “And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope.”
So Paul states that times of tribulation build strength and character. It is Satan that desires to impede this by having us focus on escaping trouble and persecution instead of preparing to go through persecution even to the point of death. When soft Christians are confronted with end time persecution, Satan will be ecstatic as he will watch these soft Christians all fall like dominoes. Once again the lies of Satan will have been successful if we are not prepared.
Jesus said to His church, “I know your works and tribulation…” (Revelation 2:9) And again Jesus said to His church, “YOU shall have tribulation…” (Revelation 2:10)
So the Biblical evidence reveals that Christians have always gone through tribulation and that we will all endure tribulation until the very end. However, we do not need to fear what man can do as Christ promised in Matthew 28:20, “Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the world.” Did you note that Jesus said until the end, not until tribulation begins?

One Taken, One Left?
What did Jesus mean when He said, “Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.” Matthew 24:40?

Thanks to fictional movies there are large numbers of Christians that apply this again to the sudden vanishing of true believers while their clothes, shoes and anything else they were wearing are found left in a heap where ever they were at the time they disappeared. It is “Left Behind: The Movie” that is responsible for planting this non Biblical idea in the minds of those who watched this fictional movie, and of course our adversary has perpetuated this lie as he loves to do. There are also many books on prophecy being written where unbelieving partners are described as waking up in the morning only to discover that their believing spouses are missing and supposedly have been raptured to heaven. The remainder of this fiction teaches that all who are left behind must endure seven years of Tribulation and the coming of the Antichrist but then have a second chance to be saved.
You can understand why this would be a popular interpretation but what did Jesus actually mean in what He said in Matthew 24:40?

Jesus said in Matthew 24:27 NKJV, “For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.”
This verse describes the glorious return of Jesus Christ at His Second Coming, which few disagree.
Jesus continues in Matthew 24:30-31 NKJV, “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
The Second Coming of Jesus is once again clearly described where His coming will be loud, visible, glorious and literal. In other words, it will be seen by the entire world.
Matthew 24:36 NKJV, “But of that day [Second Coming] and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.” The Second Coming is once again revealed. Parentheses are added.
Matthew 24:37-39 NKJV, “But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.”

Here Jesus compares the days Noah and the flood with His Second Coming. Please note carefully who is taken away. It is those who were living sinful lives that were taken as the flood suddenly came upon the lost and took them all away. Hence the lost had no second chance and they all perished. And Jesus said, “...so shall the coming of the Son of man be.”

Matthew 24:40 NKJV, “Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.”
Now noting the above verse. When is then? Where in the above verse or any of the previous verses for that matter does it describe the sudden vanishing of millions of Christians before a seven year tribulation period as taught in the fictional Left Behind series? It is not hard to see that the above text is referring to the salvation of one and the destruction of the lost at the end of the world when Jesus returns a second time. So according to the preceding verses of Matthew 24:27, Matthew 24:30-31, Matthew 24:36 and Matthew 24:37-39, “one shall be taken” and “one shall be left” at the visible (verse 27), glorious (verse 30), audible (verse 31), unknown time (verse 36), flood like event (verses 37-39) of the second coming of Jesus!
So just like in the days of Noah when destruction came, Jesus said there will be no second chances. All faithful believers need to be ready now as Jesus will come like a thief in the night when we do not expect Him (as a thief is not expected) so we will not be caught out and found naked and our shame seen. (Revelation 16:15)

http://www.the-rapture.net/