The difference between the rapture and the second coming

[farouk]

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us." (Galatians 3.13)

The Lord Jesus bore the curse for His people in a substitutionary sense. But in no sense is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself under a curse.

 

[ezrider]

Thanks JLB, I do appreciate your concern and taking the time to speak it and share. God bless you, friend.
But I'm not sure just what you are concerned about. I do believe that Jesus is from the line of David, thus Jesse of coarse. I believe He has every right to the throne, He must or the Father would not have given it to Him.

I believe that the scriptures you posted were fulfilled when Jesus came the first time, I don't see them as prophecies of the Second Coming. Don't you?

I highlight what you said about his right to the throne, because it was the law that gave him that right. Consider the temptations in the wilderness, I will give unto you all the kingdoms of the world if you will serve me. If he shall serve the law, then by right to law he would he would have been an earthly king. But Jesus did not submit himself to the law, he submitted himself to the will of God. My kingdom is not of this world.

 

[ezrider]

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us." (Galatians 3.13)

The Lord Jesus bore the curse for His people in a substitutionary sense. But in no sense is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself under a curse.

farouk, what string are you using to when you are referencing a scripture so that it pops up the scripture window?

 

[Deborah13]

"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us." (Galatians 3.13)

The Lord Jesus bore the curse for His people in a substitutionary sense. But in no sense is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself under a curse.

No He wasn't under a curse.

 

[veryberry]

Jesus was the legal heir to David's throne because Joseph(who was the blood line of David) was his adoptive father. Jesus was also of the blood line of David through Mary. Both Joseph and Mary were of David's lineage.

 

[farouk]

Jesus was the legal heir to David's throne because Joseph(who was the blood line of David) was his adoptive father. Jesus was also of the blood line of David through Mary. Both Joseph and Mary were of David's lineage.

I don't know why anyone would reasonably want to argue otherwise.

 

[Deborah13]

I don't know why anyone would reasonably want to argue otherwise.

You know the OT scripture about the line from Solomon. So the question was could He be a legal heir (on earth) through the line of Joseph because of that scripture.
Even if that were true, it would not mean that Jesus is cursed.

Actually it was said as a statement but anything new to me is always a great big, fat question mark.

 

[veryberry]

Gal 3:13 - Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 

[JLB]

Thanks JLB, I do appreciate your concern and taking the time to speak it and share. God bless you, friend.
But I'm not sure just what you are concerned about. I do believe that Jesus is from the line of David, thus Jesse of coarse. I believe He has every right to the throne, He must or the Father would not have given it to Him.

I believe that the scriptures you posted were fulfilled when Jesus came the first time, I don't see them as prophecies of the Second Coming. Don't you?

He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. Luke 1:32

This is a prophecy about the future.

This was not fulfilled during His lifetime.

He did not reign as a king on Davids Throne in Jerusalem.

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:16-17

This also references the same prophecy as Luke 1:32

Just as the Lord taught His Disciples privately on the Mount of Olives -

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Matthew 25:31-33


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Gal 3:13 - Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

veryberry, what you say of coarse is true. We aren't talking about that curse. We are talking about a curse that a prophet put on the line of Solomon.
Can you help with that?

 

[Deborah13]

He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. Luke 1:32

This is a prophecy about the future.

This was not fulfilled during His lifetime.

He did not reign as a king on Davids Throne in Jerusalem.

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:16-17

This also references the same prophecy as Luke 1:32

Just as the Lord taught His Disciples privately on the Mount of Olives -

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Matthew 25:31-33

JLB

So you were talking about a difference in eschatology not whether Jesus could be a legal king on earth through the line of Joseph from Solomon or through Mary's line through Nathan. Both sons of David. I'm not sure how that works.
Say just for a minute that I agreed with you and believed in a future earthly throne of David. Would Jesus have to come to the throne through the line of Solomon as well as David?

 

[Deborah13]

He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. Luke 1:32

This is a prophecy about the future.

This was not fulfilled during His lifetime.

He did not reign as a king on Davids Throne in Jerusalem.

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:16-17

This also references the same prophecy as Luke 1:32

Just as the Lord taught His Disciples privately on the Mount of Olives -

31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Matthew 25:31-33

JLB

So you were talking about a difference in eschatology not whether Jesus could be a legal king on earth through the line of Joseph from Solomon or through Mary's line through Nathan. Both sons of David. I'm not sure how that works.
Say just for a minute that I agreed with you and believed in a future earthly throne of David. Would Jesus have to come to the throne through the line of Solomon as well as David?

 

[veryberry]

Romans 1:3 - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

 

[Deborah13]

Romans 1:3 - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Yes, through both blood lines. Joseph's and Mary's.

 

[JLB]

So you were talking about a difference in eschatology not whether Jesus could be a legal king on earth through the line of Joseph from Solomon or through Mary's line through Nathan. Both sons of David. I'm not sure how that works.
Say just for a minute that I agreed with you and believed in a future earthly throne of David. Would Jesus have to come to the throne through the line of Solomon as well as David?

Jesus reigns as king through the line of David.

Anything else would fall into the category or arguing over endless genealogies that Paul instructed us not to do.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Jesus reigns as king through the line of David.

Anything else would fall into the category or arguing over endless genealogies that Paul instructed us not to do.


JLB

I agree Jesus Reigns as king through the line of David.

Rapture- No, Second Coming - Yes

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Luk 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

They Thought that the kingdom of God should immediately Appear. My faith is established. I believe that the kingdom of God came, it's been set up and is growing. Just because I can't see it with my physical eyes, because I can't see Jesus here on this earth reigning the scriptures say He reigns and will until some future time He will turn over the kingdom of God over to the Father.

If there is a Rapture before Christ returns, the kingdom of God would be removed from the earth. I don't see any scripture that says the kingdom will be removed before the end.

 

[digging]

I agree Jesus Reigns as king through the line of David.

Rapture- No, Second Coming - Yes

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Luk 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

They Thought that the kingdom of God should immediately Appear. My faith is established. I believe that the kingdom of God came, it's been set up and is growing. Just because I can't see it with my physical eyes, because I can't see Jesus here on this earth reigning the scriptures say He reigns and will until some future time He will turn over the kingdom of God over to the Father.

If there is a Rapture before Christ returns, the kingdom of God would be removed from the earth. I don't see any scripture that says the kingdom will be removed before the end.

I really enjoy reading your comments, I agree very much with what you have said here.

 

[n2thelight]

Matthew 24, 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15 are the same eventThe following demonstrate very well that all three passages in the Bible that are referring to the second coming of Christ are precisely that. God never intended for His Word to be cryptic or some mountain of confusion where one or more passages are supposedly referring to the second coming and others to some supposed fictional secret rapture.

By comparing point by point in the following two passages, we can observe that both of the following two chapters are referring to the same event. Observe the perfect parallels below.


I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

I Corinthians 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming."

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Now compare Matthew 24 with the above events using 1 Thessalonians since some erroneously teach that Matthew 24 is talking about the glorious second coming of Jesus, which they teach is a different event to the above chapters which they say refers to a secret rapture.

I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

Matthew 24:27 "For as the lightning cometh our to the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

Matthew 24:31 "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

I Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Matthew 24:31 "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

I Thessalonians 5:1 "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you."

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only."

I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

Matthew 24:43 "But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up."

I Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

Matthew 24:39 "And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the son of man be."

I Thessalonians 5:6 "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

Matthew 24:42 "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."

As you can see, not only are these the same event and so parallel each other perfectly but are even in the same order. There are not two different aspects of the return of Jesus. There is only one second coming and the theory of a secret rapture with a second chance is just another deception of the enemy.

Matthew 24
Jesus coming ,Trumpet,angels gather saints,coming in the clouds

1Thess 4
Jesus coming,Trumpet,dead saints raised,coming in clouds

1Corinth15
At His coming,Last trump,dead saints raised......

Christ only returns once more,which is the second coming.......

 

[Gary]

Matthew 24, 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15 are the same eventThe following demonstrate very well that all three passages in the Bible that are referring to the second coming of Christ are precisely that. God never intended for His Word to be cryptic or some mountain of confusion where one or more passages are supposedly referring to the second coming and others to some supposed fictional secret rapture.

By comparing point by point in the following two passages, we can observe that both of the following two chapters are referring to the same event. Observe the perfect parallels below.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

I Corinthians 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming."

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Now compare Matthew 24 with the above events using 1 Thessalonians since some erroneously teach that Matthew 24 is talking about the glorious second coming of Jesus, which they teach is a different event to the above chapters which they say refers to a secret rapture.

I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

Matthew 24:27 "For as the lightning cometh our to the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

Matthew 24:31 "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

I Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Matthew 24:31 "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

I Thessalonians 5:1 "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you."

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only."

I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

Matthew 24:43 "But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up."

I Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

Matthew 24:39 "And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the son of man be."

I Thessalonians 5:6 "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

Matthew 24:42 "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."

As you can see, not only are these the same event and so parallel each other perfectly but are even in the same order. There are not two different aspects of the return of Jesus. There is only one second coming and the theory of a secret rapture with a second chance is just another deception of the enemy.

Matthew 24
Jesus coming ,Trumpet,angels gather saints,coming in the clouds

1Thess 4
Jesus coming,Trumpet,dead saints raised,coming in clouds

1Corinth15
At His coming,Last trump,dead saints raised......

Christ only returns once more,which is the second coming.......

Excellent post.

There is only one second coming and the theory of a secret rapture with a second chance is just another deception of the enemy.

Absolutely.
.

 

[JLB]

Matthew 24, 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15 are the same eventThe following demonstrate very well that all three passages in the Bible that are referring to the second coming of Christ are precisely that. God never intended for His Word to be cryptic or some mountain of confusion where one or more passages are supposedly referring to the second coming and others to some supposed fictional secret rapture.

By comparing point by point in the following two passages, we can observe that both of the following two chapters are referring to the same event. Observe the perfect parallels below.

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

I Corinthians 15:23 "But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming."

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Now compare Matthew 24 with the above events using 1 Thessalonians since some erroneously teach that Matthew 24 is talking about the glorious second coming of Jesus, which they teach is a different event to the above chapters which they say refers to a secret rapture.

I Thessalonians 4:15 "For we say unto you, by the word of our Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent in no wise [precede] them which are asleep."

Matthew 24:27 "For as the lightning cometh our to the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

I Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;"

Matthew 24:31 "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

I Thessalonians 4:17 "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Matthew 24:31 "And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

I Thessalonians 5:1 "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you."

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only."

I Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

Matthew 24:43 "But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up."

I Thessalonians 5:3 "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

Matthew 24:39 "And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the son of man be."

I Thessalonians 5:6 "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober."

Matthew 24:42 "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."

As you can see, not only are these the same event and so parallel each other perfectly but are even in the same order. There are not two different aspects of the return of Jesus. There is only one second coming and the theory of a secret rapture with a second chance is just another deception of the enemy.

Matthew 24
Jesus coming ,Trumpet,angels gather saints,coming in the clouds

1Thess 4
Jesus coming,Trumpet,dead saints raised,coming in clouds

1Corinth15
At His coming,Last trump,dead saints raised......

Christ only returns once more,which is the second coming.......

:amen