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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The difference between the rapture and the second coming
- Thread starter Kathi
- Start date
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:23-24
When the Rapture occurs, Jesus will put an end to all other authority in the world.
There will no more evil rulers, or an "antichrist", who is called the man of sin, for He will have been destroyed by Jesus. 2 Thessalonians 2:8
So how can we come to the conclusion that Jesus will destroy the antichrist before the great tribulation?
The Rapture takes place, at His coming.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15
He comes for His people to gather them, ONCE.
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
At His Coming, every eye will see Him...
JLB
When the Rapture occurs, Jesus will put an end to all other authority in the world.
There will no more evil rulers, or an "antichrist", who is called the man of sin, for He will have been destroyed by Jesus. 2 Thessalonians 2:8
So how can we come to the conclusion that Jesus will destroy the antichrist before the great tribulation?
The Rapture takes place, at His coming.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15
He comes for His people to gather them, ONCE.
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
At His Coming, every eye will see Him...
JLB
personally i appreciate the way this is phrased ...Here in the ET forum i read more posts claiming to be the Word of God. Stating in one form or another Jesus said this or Jesus will do that....
A couple of the phrases we use are our thoughts not scripture
We have 4 passages telling us the meaning of the word antichrist yet we use it to be other then what God intended.
In Scripture we do not read the phrase " the great tribulation" we read "great tribulation" small difference yes but different
No where is the term 'rapture ' found. and i also know, no where is the word trinity
we best get back to topic 
The Rapture takes place, at His coming.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15
He comes for His people to gather them, ONCE.
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15
He comes for His people to gather them, ONCE.
so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28
Sorry about the length, but I tried to keep it as short as possible. If you want my full teaching on this just go to my website and click on Second Coming of Christ.
The rapture as so many like to call it, but not found anywhere is scripture is the same as Christ second coming. A great example of how we see and what we hear is found in Matthew chapter 13 (read and study the whole chapter) as Jesus talks about the parable of the seed being sown in three different ways. One is sown by the way side which means the word was given, but Satan plucked it out of you because it was not understood. The second was sown in stony ground which was received with joy, but when tribulation or persecution came it was uprooted and caused one to be offended. The third was sown in good ground and received and he that heard the word also understood it and produced much fruit. Further down in the same chapter Jesus teaches about the wheat and the tares as the wheat being those who are of truth hearing with Spiritual ears and seeing truth with Spiritual eyes that have repented and the tares being those of deception that only think and see with a carnal mind of rationalization that have not repented. This means saints and those who reject truth or never repented of their ways will all be here on earth when Jesus returns in the air with his army and we as the wheat will go with him when the time of harvest is ripe, but the tares are those that do not repent and will stand in the Great White Throne Judgment before God and will be condemned for eternity as their names will not be found in the Lambs book of life.
(Rev 14:14-20; 20:11-15)
There will be two great battles that will take place in the end of days as we the saints of God will still be here while they are taking place as Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation (Papal Rome taking it’s seat in Jerusalem once again) to stand in the Holy place, which is a literal place and a Spiritual place as Gods seal is upon those who have repented and God will protect them from what is about to take place. You have to cross reference Zechariah 14; Revelation 13:11-18; and Revelation 20 to understand the prophecy given in Zechariah 14 about the second coming of Christ and what has to take place before and after his return that in a twinkling of an eye we will be with the Lord forever. Please read all these chapters as it is imperative for Spiritual understanding.
(Matthew 24:15; Rev 7:3; Rev 20:7-10)
The first battle of the end of days starts in Revelation chapter 20 and will be that of Satan’s control of Jerusalem through Papal Rome taking captive those that are of God and forcing them to bow down to their thoughts of an imaginative worship to their pagan gods and rituals and those that are in Christ will be forced to denounce Christ and if they refuse then they will die a martyrs death. This is the mark of the beast with Papal Rome being the beast and the mark of the beast is the actions of their hands and the thoughts of their minds. God sends an angel to bind up Satan and throw him into the Abyss right after Papal Rome’s abomination of desolation in Jerusalem so he can no longer deceive the nations. Remember that 1000 years is as a day with the Lord in his timing.
(Rev 13:11-18)
The second and last battle of the end of days will be the gathering of the bride of Christ (those who have repented) as she has made herself ready as she endured until the end of days, both dead and alive and will be taken in the air to meet Jesus while the angel chains Satan and throws him into the Abyss for a time. Jesus then comes down to earth to stand on the Mt. Of Olives with his army (we the saints) to fight the final battle as he cast the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire and makes an end to the abominations of Papal Rome. Jesus will then let Satan loose from the Abyss and with Satan’s army will rage war on all the nations but will be consumed by the fire of heaven and will be cast into the lake of fire and sulphur with his army for eternity. After this God will bring everyone into his throne of judgment and those not found in the Lambs book of Life will be cast also into the lake of fire and sulphur with the beast, false prophet, Satan and all his army thus ushering in the new heaven and the new Jerusalem that we will be with the Lord forever.
(Rev 20:5, 6; 9:20, 21; 20:15)
It is so imperative to understand those Spiritual words of God so we will not be taken as a thief in the night when Jesus returns. Revelation, which means veil rolled aside, starts with the seven churches that spiritually represent all Gods children as they are given the seven spirits of God to help keep them inline with the will of God. The seven spirits are wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and the Spirit of the Lord. Revelation chapter 4 is used in the false teachings of a pretrib rapture that teaches the saints of God will be out of here before a Great Tribulation occurs. This is a monstrous deception of Satan that will cause many to fall away from God as we will go through everything of Revelations including the seven seals of judgment, seven trumpets of judgment, the harvest judgment, the seven vials of judgment right up to and including the two final battles when judgment comes on all the inhabitants on the earth dead and alive.
The rapture as so many like to call it, but not found anywhere is scripture is the same as Christ second coming. A great example of how we see and what we hear is found in Matthew chapter 13 (read and study the whole chapter) as Jesus talks about the parable of the seed being sown in three different ways. One is sown by the way side which means the word was given, but Satan plucked it out of you because it was not understood. The second was sown in stony ground which was received with joy, but when tribulation or persecution came it was uprooted and caused one to be offended. The third was sown in good ground and received and he that heard the word also understood it and produced much fruit. Further down in the same chapter Jesus teaches about the wheat and the tares as the wheat being those who are of truth hearing with Spiritual ears and seeing truth with Spiritual eyes that have repented and the tares being those of deception that only think and see with a carnal mind of rationalization that have not repented. This means saints and those who reject truth or never repented of their ways will all be here on earth when Jesus returns in the air with his army and we as the wheat will go with him when the time of harvest is ripe, but the tares are those that do not repent and will stand in the Great White Throne Judgment before God and will be condemned for eternity as their names will not be found in the Lambs book of life.
(Rev 14:14-20; 20:11-15)
There will be two great battles that will take place in the end of days as we the saints of God will still be here while they are taking place as Jesus said when you see the abomination of desolation (Papal Rome taking it’s seat in Jerusalem once again) to stand in the Holy place, which is a literal place and a Spiritual place as Gods seal is upon those who have repented and God will protect them from what is about to take place. You have to cross reference Zechariah 14; Revelation 13:11-18; and Revelation 20 to understand the prophecy given in Zechariah 14 about the second coming of Christ and what has to take place before and after his return that in a twinkling of an eye we will be with the Lord forever. Please read all these chapters as it is imperative for Spiritual understanding.
(Matthew 24:15; Rev 7:3; Rev 20:7-10)
The first battle of the end of days starts in Revelation chapter 20 and will be that of Satan’s control of Jerusalem through Papal Rome taking captive those that are of God and forcing them to bow down to their thoughts of an imaginative worship to their pagan gods and rituals and those that are in Christ will be forced to denounce Christ and if they refuse then they will die a martyrs death. This is the mark of the beast with Papal Rome being the beast and the mark of the beast is the actions of their hands and the thoughts of their minds. God sends an angel to bind up Satan and throw him into the Abyss right after Papal Rome’s abomination of desolation in Jerusalem so he can no longer deceive the nations. Remember that 1000 years is as a day with the Lord in his timing.
(Rev 13:11-18)
The second and last battle of the end of days will be the gathering of the bride of Christ (those who have repented) as she has made herself ready as she endured until the end of days, both dead and alive and will be taken in the air to meet Jesus while the angel chains Satan and throws him into the Abyss for a time. Jesus then comes down to earth to stand on the Mt. Of Olives with his army (we the saints) to fight the final battle as he cast the beast and the false prophet into the lake of fire and makes an end to the abominations of Papal Rome. Jesus will then let Satan loose from the Abyss and with Satan’s army will rage war on all the nations but will be consumed by the fire of heaven and will be cast into the lake of fire and sulphur with his army for eternity. After this God will bring everyone into his throne of judgment and those not found in the Lambs book of Life will be cast also into the lake of fire and sulphur with the beast, false prophet, Satan and all his army thus ushering in the new heaven and the new Jerusalem that we will be with the Lord forever.
(Rev 20:5, 6; 9:20, 21; 20:15)
It is so imperative to understand those Spiritual words of God so we will not be taken as a thief in the night when Jesus returns. Revelation, which means veil rolled aside, starts with the seven churches that spiritually represent all Gods children as they are given the seven spirits of God to help keep them inline with the will of God. The seven spirits are wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and the Spirit of the Lord. Revelation chapter 4 is used in the false teachings of a pretrib rapture that teaches the saints of God will be out of here before a Great Tribulation occurs. This is a monstrous deception of Satan that will cause many to fall away from God as we will go through everything of Revelations including the seven seals of judgment, seven trumpets of judgment, the harvest judgment, the seven vials of judgment right up to and including the two final battles when judgment comes on all the inhabitants on the earth dead and alive.
tim-from-pa
Member
Raised Evangelical Congregational, we were always taught a pre-Trib rapture, but I felt more comfortable with it happening at his Second Coming and gravitated toward that. But then in my young adult years I ran across a convincing preacher that taught pre-Trib, and his scholarship was not the least bit shoddy, so I was convinced for quite awhile in Pre-Trib. But in the past few years, something did not sit right with it and I went back (to stay) to post trib, or I should say His Second Coming.
Why? Not because of what anyone said, not because of some convincing study, not because that's what the Church of God teaches that I attend. No, none of that as they are all man's reasoning. I went back because of the feasts. The feast of Trumpets is associated with the Coming of Christ, the Marriage of Messiah, the Coronation of the King....
Now.... I have been noticing for many years now the association of the rapture with the feast of Trumpets, and rightly so. But then if there's a second coming years later, we have another feast of Trumpets! It made no sense to have TWO of them and only one Day of Atonement afterwards, Tabernacles (Millennial reign) and Last Great Day (the GWT judgement)
I don't make pre-Trib or post-Trib personally a bone of contention as that's basically asking ourselves if we believe the bus comes now or later. If later, better bring the umbrella before it rains. If sooner, great! No need to endure all that stuff. But I rather bring the umbrella so as not to be unprepared and too happy and lazy.
Why? Not because of what anyone said, not because of some convincing study, not because that's what the Church of God teaches that I attend. No, none of that as they are all man's reasoning. I went back because of the feasts. The feast of Trumpets is associated with the Coming of Christ, the Marriage of Messiah, the Coronation of the King....
Now.... I have been noticing for many years now the association of the rapture with the feast of Trumpets, and rightly so. But then if there's a second coming years later, we have another feast of Trumpets! It made no sense to have TWO of them and only one Day of Atonement afterwards, Tabernacles (Millennial reign) and Last Great Day (the GWT judgement)
I don't make pre-Trib or post-Trib personally a bone of contention as that's basically asking ourselves if we believe the bus comes now or later. If later, better bring the umbrella before it rains. If sooner, great! No need to endure all that stuff. But I rather bring the umbrella so as not to be unprepared and too happy and lazy.
Butch5
Member
They're the same thing
thethinker
Member
No, there is NOT a distinction.
The LAST enemy is destroyed at the resurrection. Death is the LAST enemy. Paul said this is the END.
farouk
Member
thethinker
Member
I am not interested in post 2. I am interested in 1 Corinthians 15. Paul said that the resurrection is the END. The LAST enemy (death) is destroyed at that time. Last means last.
farouk
Member
I am interested in the fact that in 1 Thess. 4 the church is raptured in the air. In Matthew 24, the events are on earth and seem to refer to tribulation saints.
thethinker
Member
No! In Matthew 24 they see the Son of Man in the sky (24:30 NASB). This agrees with Paul who said that He descends to the clouds, and that His people meet Him in the air. So there is no coming to the earth. Paul said that the LAST enemy is destroyed at the resurrection. Last means last!
The view you advocate was born of Premillennialism which was condemned by the Council of Ephesus as a "superstitious aberration" in 431.
farouk
Member
His feet will touch the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14.4).
Respectfully, I'm not bound by what guys in Ephesus might have said in 431, or by their hyperbole.
I don't want to argue, either. Blessings.
thethinker
Member
Zechariah 14 is about and old testament coming of YHWH. It is NOT Messianic at all. It is anthropomorphism. The exact same language is used whem YHWH came to Mt. Sinai to give the law. It says that He came to Mt. Sinai and the people "sat at His feet."
What is your proof from the context that Zechariah 14 is Messianic?
Comment deleted
Last edited by a moderator:
farouk
Member
thethinker
Member
For the future:I'm not going to argue with you, Sir.
Have a nice day; blessings.
"Be ready to give an answer to every man who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you."