The difference in the rapture and the second coming

[Themessengeroftruth]

Why is it crucially important? Will a believer in Christ not be saved if they don't recognize the differences? Will the Lord deny them? Will they not be caught up?

If a believer in Christ is caught up in pride and arrogance concerning the scriptures and his interpretation of it. And say the mark of the beast comes but he don't believe that mark is the mark of the beast because how he thought the world was gonna end he is suppose to be raptured before the mark comes . So he says that can't be the mark and he takes it.

That's how a believer will be rejected to the kingdom.

Because that believer so was so caught up in pride and the hardness of his heart as if he can not be wrong and he completed ignore the scripture that says

scriptures are for reproofs and correction therefore if a believer is harden and stubborn to that extent in that circumstance

Then he will not enter into heaven because he took the sign and the mark

So to answer your question . As long as your not harden and do not worship no other god no matter what the consequences are then when the time comes of the end and u are tried u will be safe because u rather suffer or be killed than bow or take the mark of another god

 

[Deborah13]

If a believer in Christ is caught up in pride and arrogance concerning the scriptures and his interpretation of it. And say the mark of the beast comes but he don't believe that mark is the mark of the beast because how he thought the world was gonna end he is suppose to be raptured before the mark comes . So he says that can't be the mark and he takes it.

That's how a believer will be rejected to the kingdom.

Because that believer so was so caught up in pride and the hardness of his heart as if he can not be wrong and he completed ignore the scripture that says

scriptures are for reproofs and correction therefore if a believer is harden and stubborn to that extent in that circumstance

Then he will not enter into heaven because he took the sign and the mark

So to answer your question . As long as your not harden and do not worship no other god no matter what the consequences are then when the time comes of the end and u are tried u will be safe because u rather suffer or be killed than bow or take the mark of another god

Is a believer harden against Christ?
Does a believer worship anyone other than our Lord?
If you believe that Matthew 24 is talking about a future tribulation, what did Jesus say. Flee, don't believe false prophets. Why? Because He (Jesus) will not be standing on this earth at that time.
So tell me how a false prophet can fool a believer into worshiping him?
It wouldn't be a matter of fooling, it would be a matter of choosing.

Say I am wrong about Matthew 24 having taken place in 70AD does it really make a difference?
Jesus was not on the earth in 70AD and He isn't on earth during the 7 yrs. in Revelation.
So why would any believer worship any man during that time?

But my questions were directed to someone who believes in a pretrib rapture. Why is it crucial that one believes in a pretrib rapture.

 

[Kathi]

What if u don't take the mark of the beast but u wasn't raptured before the mark of the beast came ?

Why would someone not take the Mark of the Beast during the 7 year tribulation?I am thinking there will be huge benefits in taking the Mark if one is not a believer.The Antichrist will make if very,very attractive.But....if you can get ahold of a Bible and you finally realize what is really going on and you want to give your life to Christ....I do not know what they will do.How they will keep from taking the Mark.Once a person takes the mark they are sealed to go to hell.They will not go to heaven.There will be a few who actually make it to the 1000 year Millennium as believers and do not take the Mark.I don't know how they will do that

 

[jasonc]

Why would someone not take the Mark of the Beast during the 7 year tribulation?I am thinking there will be huge benefits in taking the Mark if one is not a believer.The Antichrist will make if very,very attractive.But....if you can get ahold of a Bible and you finally realize what is really going on and you want to give your life to Christ....I do not know what they will do.How they will keep from taking the Mark.Once a person takes the mark they are sealed to go to hell.They will not go to heaven.There will be a few who actually make it to the 1000 year Millennium as believers and do not take the Mark.I don't know how they will do that

uhm if they have the bible and its as you all say then HOW will they not KNOW when exactly to the day of His return?

 

[Kathi]

Is a believer harden against Christ?
Does a believer worship anyone other than our Lord?
If you believe that Matthew 24 is talking about a future tribulation, what did Jesus say. Flee, don't believe false prophets. Why? Because He (Jesus) will not be standing on this earth at that time.
So tell me how a false prophet can fool a believer into worshiping him?
It wouldn't be a matter of fooling, it would be a matter of choosing.

Say I am wrong about Matthew 24 having taken place in 70AD does it really make a difference?
Jesus was not on the earth in 70AD and He isn't on earth during the 7 yrs. in Revelation.
So why would any believer worship any man during that time?

But my questions were directed to someone who believes in a pretrib rapture. Why is it crucial that one believes in a pretrib rapture.

I do not think it is crucial to believe in the pretrib rapture.It is not a salvation issue.pre-trib,mid-trib and post-trib are still within Biblical standards.I have studied and research all of them before I made my decision.It is not something you want to go into lightly.I think it takes a lot of study and a lot of prayer to make the decision of what eschatology stand you want to take.

 

[Kathi]

uhm if they have the bible and its as you all say then HOW will they not KNOW when exactly to the day of His return?

The Bible will give them some very good information as to where they are right now and what is happening.It will tell them that his man who is ruling over them is the Antichrist.They can see around them and know from Revelation if they are going through the seals,bowls or trumpets.

 

[jasonc]

The Bible will give them some very good information as to where they are right now and what is happening.It will tell them that his man who is ruling over them is the Antichrist.They can see around them and know from Revelation if they are going through the seals,bowls or trumpets.

again, no man KNOWETH the hour. that is why I cant buy that doctrine. they will know when He will return. seven year trib.the mass dissapereance of men will be dated. who wouldn't notice that? if its mid trib the same and post trib, once the ac says he is god or some man shows up to be that person, seven years to His return

 

[Kathi]

I don't understand.Of course we are not to date set and we do not know that hour but we can study the Book of Daniel and other books of the Bible to give us an idea.There is a crown waiting for those who are anxiously anticipating His return.

 

[jasonc]

I don't understand.Of course we are not to date set and we do not know that hour but we can study the Book of Daniel and other books of the Bible to give us an idea.There is a crown waiting for those who are anxiously anticipating His return.

the bible in the trib will know the day! its a seven year time frame.

 

[Kathi]

the bible in the trib will know the day! its a seven year time frame.

What is the Bible in the trib?

 

[jasonc]

What is the Bible in the trib?

okay. so they don't know and yet are saved and that part where jesus says the HOLY GHOST shall bring thee things that I have taught you isn't the case then? they don't have the word to keep them?

if you can defend that position without a commentary. please show me plainly. good luck I tried.

 

[Kathi]

I am sorry you lost me.How can someone not know and be saved?What about the Holy Spirit?Three things?

 

[jasonc]

I am sorry you lost me.How can someone not know and be saved?What about the Holy Spirit?Three things?

ok. then how if they do know what is going on. the rapture just happened. today. 1-7-15, they then get saved and read thessalonians and Corinthians and realease that has occurred then go to Daniel 9 and matthew 24. seven years is where in that doctrine? Daniel 9. so they know from the day of the calendar when he will return.

 

[Themessengeroftruth]

Is a believer harden against Christ?
Does a believer worship anyone other than our Lord?
If you believe that Matthew 24 is talking about a future tribulation, what did Jesus say. Flee, don't believe false prophets. Why? Because He (Jesus) will not be standing on this earth at that time.
So tell me how a false prophet can fool a believer into worshiping him?
It wouldn't be a matter of fooling, it would be a matter of choosing.

Say I am wrong about Matthew 24 having taken place in 70AD does it really make a difference?
Jesus was not on the earth in 70AD and He isn't on earth during the 7 yrs. in Revelation.
So why would any believer worship any man during that time?

But my questions were directed to someone who believes in a pretrib rapture. Why is it crucial that one believes in a pretrib rapture.

U believe mathew 24 is talking about a event that happened already.

But how is that possible? Seeing that the powers of heaven were not yet shaken in all of earth history.

Now me and u can go back and forth about what we believe is correct concerning the scriptures but I don't desire to do that. My point and the reason I answered the last post was because of pride and hardness of heart.
Let me make it cleAr what I mean by pride and hardness of heart.

A lot of people who believe what u believe are so convinced they are correct concerning scriptures that they completely ignore the scripture that says the scriptures is for reproof and correction. Some of them feel like because they went to bible school or learned it from some famous pastor (not saying this is who told u this interpretation of mathew 24) they believe they are not wrong and it's not possible in their mind for their interpretation of scripture to be wrong.

That hardness is what is dangerous because if the mark of the beast come some will take it because of what they believe the scriptures to be .

Now many of u will say to me "what's the difference? Don't u believe your interpretation of scripture is true!!"?

The difference between my interpretation of scripture and others is I tell u all to try the words! I tell you all scriptures that reaffirms the interpretation I am telling u all.

Not one or two scriptures but many .

For example this is how i would contest the interpretation of scripture concerning what u say about mathew 24 that many would get offend at me about or just can't answer the question and come up with something that has nothingto do with the verse I'm referring to.

Matt 24:29-30 immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darken and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken 30: and then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn.......

To all pretrib believers tell me when in history of the earth was at the same time the heavens being shaken all the tribes of earth mourning with asteroids falling from the sky while the sun is darken an the moon not giving her light?


There is not a man who can say this event happened and if he does he is lying and y'all know it.

But I'm not trying to turn this into a long debate over pretrib and post trib believers

All im saying to you and the rest of u who believe this is look In the scriptures but not with pride but a humble heart

I'm not perfect I'm not always right in fact this is not my interpretation of it but Christ words I'm saying to u and the meaning of it.

Do I know all of the meanings of the words of Christ no.

But this I know for a fact because of who told me. Not man or pastor but the living gods

 

[Themessengeroftruth]

Why would someone not take the Mark of the Beast during the 7 year tribulation?I am thinking there will be huge benefits in taking the Mark if one is not a believer.The Antichrist will make if very,very attractive.But....if you can get ahold of a Bible and you finally realize what is really going on and you want to give your life to Christ....I do not know what they will do.How they will keep from taking the Mark.Once a person takes the mark they are sealed to go to hell.They will not go to heaven.There will be a few who actually make it to the 1000 year Millennium as believers and do not take the Mark.I don't know how they will do that

Kathi this was why I asked the question.

U believe the rapture is before the second coming correct? But if u live in the time when the mark of the beast is in power then according to your doctrine you was not raptured.

Don't worry if u are not raptured during the time of the mark. For as long as u don't take the mark no matter what your seat is reserved in heaven.

Because I'm telling u the truth there is no rapture before the second coming concerning the disappearing of saints .

U may not believe me and that's ok. If u believe there is then believe what u will. Just don't take the mark if u aren't raptured. That's all that matters in the times we live in and in the days to come. Well not all but the most important ...

As far as the 1000 year mellium . I know the raptured are the ones who reigned with him for a thousand years but I think there will be a remnant left on earth.

Who knows how it's a wonder but all things is possible with The Lord Christ

 

[Willie T]

I do love all the people who swear they are going to be reigning...... Most of them I have run across couldn't reign over an Ant Farm.

 

[Kathi]

Kathi this was why I asked the question.

U believe the rapture is before the second coming correct? But if u live in the time when the mark of the beast is in power then according to your doctrine you was not raptured.

Don't worry if u are not raptured during the time of the mark. For as long as u don't take the mark no matter what your seat is reserved in heaven.

Because I'm telling u the truth there is no rapture before the second coming concerning the disappearing of saints .

U may not believe me and that's ok. If u believe there is then believe what u will. Just don't take the mark if u aren't raptured. That's all that matters in the times we live in and in the days to come. Well not all but the most important ...

As far as the 1000 year mellium . I know the raptured are the ones who reigned with him for a thousand years but I think there will be a remnant left on earth.

Who knows how it's a wonder but all things is possible with The Lord Christ

My doctrine says that the rapture comes before the MOB and the second coming.You can believe what you want to believe.Life is full of choices.

 

[Themessengeroftruth]

My doctrine says that the rapture comes before the MOB and the second coming.You can believe what you want to believe.Life is full of choices.

True and the judgment of a man is from the lord but as I said before believe what u will just no matter what don't take the mark.

Everyman is given his own gift from The Lord. Some strong in faith and others in wisdom but we all agree we can not bow to another god no matter what the consequence .

For I know the mark of the beast is near and the little horn is here . All that's left is for the false prophet who work miracles to show himself then the mark of the beast comes . Who he will cause to worship the king of the islamic state al baghdadi .

But u believe what You believe and tho I disagree it's cool Kathi.
Just don't take the mark when it comes

 

[Deborah13]

U believe mathew 24 is talking about a event that happened already.

But how is that possible? Seeing that the powers of heaven were not yet shaken in all of earth history.

Now me and u can go back and forth about what we believe is correct concerning the scriptures but I don't desire to do that. My point and the reason I answered the last post was because of pride and hardness of heart.
Let me make it cleAr what I mean by pride and hardness of heart.

A lot of people who believe what u believe are so convinced they are correct concerning scriptures that they completely ignore the scripture that says the scriptures is for reproof and correction. Some of them feel like because they went to bible school or learned it from some famous pastor (not saying this is who told u this interpretation of mathew 24) they believe they are not wrong and it's not possible in their mind for their interpretation of scripture to be wrong.

That hardness is what is dangerous because if the mark of the beast come some will take it because of what they believe the scriptures to be .

Now many of u will say to me "what's the difference? Don't u believe your interpretation of scripture is true!!"?

The difference between my interpretation of scripture and others is I tell u all to try the words! I tell you all scriptures that reaffirms the interpretation I am telling u all.

Not one or two scriptures but many .

For example this is how i would contest the interpretation of scripture concerning what u say about mathew 24 that many would get offend at me about or just can't answer the question and come up with something that has nothingto do with the verse I'm referring to.

Matt 24:29-30 immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darken and the moon shall not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken 30: and then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn.......

To all pretrib believers tell me when in history of the earth was at the same time the heavens being shaken all the tribes of earth mourning with asteroids falling from the sky while the sun is darken an the moon not giving her light?


There is not a man who can say this event happened and if he does he is lying and y'all know it.

But I'm not trying to turn this into a long debate over pretrib and post trib believers

All im saying to you and the rest of u who believe this is look In the scriptures but not with pride but a humble heart

I'm not perfect I'm not always right in fact this is not my interpretation of it but Christ words I'm saying to u and the meaning of it.

Do I know all of the meanings of the words of Christ no.

But this I know for a fact because of who told me. Not man or pastor but the living gods

You still didn't tell me why any believer who does not believe Jesus will be standing on the earth during this tribulation would worship an man standing on the earth?
Maybe I can explain this way. Say you're right and there is a third temple built in Jerusalem and this guy comes strutting into the temple and claims he is God. Now I know Jesus never said that He would be physically on the earth during that tribulation, so why would I think that that dude was Jesus?

 

[Themessengeroftruth]

You still didn't tell me why any believer who does not believe Jesus will be standing on the earth during this tribulation would worship an man standing on the earth?
Maybe I can explain this way. Say you're right and there is a third temple built in Jerusalem and this guy comes strutting into the temple and claims he is God. Now I know Jesus never said that He would be physically on the earth during that tribulation, so why would I think that that dude was Jesus?

i was refering to the doctrine of the pretrib when i said those things. and no its not that the little horn will claim he is jesus but he will exalt him self above all gods and speak great words against the God of Gods even speak against jesus him self.

and i meant if a man believes he is suppose to be raptured before the little horn arises. and he is not but because he is so hardheaded in his own interpretation of scripture, of his own doctrine and bread which he eats. he is so harden that when the time of the mark of the beast comes he takes the mark because he does not believe that mark is the true mark of the beast because the rapture did not occur how his doctrine which he believed and how he thought the rapture was to occur.

and say if he takes the mark. because all who do not take the mark who resides in a land that the mark will bare rule over will be killed.(every nation except 3) and he takes it because he fears for his life also and he does not believe that mark is the mark of the beast. ThAT IS how a believer who does not believe jesus will be standing on earth and during the great tribulation and by taking the mark of the beast that man is worshiping the little horn and the god of the little horn and satan who is the devil who the little horn worships as a god.

because if he believed he would not have taken the sign. but he didnt believe because of his hardheadedness and stubborn ness and hardness of heart concerning the true doctrine of christ.

for in those days, he who does not take the mark will be killed and he who is killed is raptured. and at the last end of the fury after all who are appointed to die for jesus christ in those days are killed. after that immediately the end will come, where the son of man will be in the clouds and the great earth quake occur with the graves being open. with the stars of heaven falling and all the events written in the scripture of truth concerning THE GREAT DAY OF THE LORD. in that time to come