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The difference in the rapture and the second coming

Themessengeroftruth said:
i was refering to the doctrine of the pretrib when i said those things. and no its not that the little horn will claim he is jesus but he will exalt him self above all gods and speak great words against the God of Gods even speak against jesus him self.

and i meant if a man believes he is suppose to be raptured before the little horn arises. and he is not but because he is so hardheaded in his own interpretation of scripture, of his own doctrine and bread which he eats. he is so harden that when the time of the mark of the beast comes he takes the mark because he does not believe that mark is the true mark of the beast because the rapture did not occur how his doctrine which he believed and how he thought the rapture was to occur.

and say if he takes the mark. because all who do not take the mark who resides in a land that the mark will bare rule over will be killed.(every nation except 3) and he takes it because he fears for his life also and he does not believe that mark is the mark of the beast. ThAT IS how a believer who does not believe jesus will be standing on earth and during the great tribulation and by taking the mark of the beast that man is worshiping the little horn and the god of the little horn and satan who is the devil who the little horn worships as a god.

because if he believed he would not have taken the sign. but he didnt believe because of his hardheadedness and stubborn ness and hardness of heart concerning the true doctrine of christ.

for in those days, he who does not take the mark will be killed and he who is killed is raptured. and at the last end of the fury after all who are appointed to die for jesus christ in those days are killed. after that immediately the end will come, where the son of man will be in the clouds and the great earth quake occur with the graves being open. with the stars of heaven falling and all the events written in the scripture of truth concerning THE GREAT DAY OF THE LORD. in that time to come
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Well I don't think a believer could be apostate without knowing it.
 
ov vey, if a believer was around to know what the mark of the beast in said tribulation. consider the words of jesus on knowing the day of his return. this alone is why I left futurism for the most part. cant get around that.
 
jasonc said:
ov vey, if a believer was around to know what the mark of the beast in said tribulation. consider the words of jesus on knowing the day of his return. this alone is why I left futurism for the most part. cant get around that.
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Sheesh...sometimes I am so thick. I read your posts before and didn't get your point until just now. Duh.
 
jasonc said:
ov vey, if a believer was around to know what the mark of the beast in said tribulation. consider the words of jesus on knowing the day of his return. this alone is why I left futurism for the most part. cant get around that.
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Jesus spoke of the day and hour of his return.

He did not say no man can know the events leading up to his coming

In fact he said the opposite remember the parable of the fig tree

Remember the parable of the fig tree
 
Themessengeroftruth said:
Jesus spoke of the day and hour of his return.

He did not say no man can know the events leading up to his coming

In fact he said the opposite remember the parable of the fig tree

Remember the parable of the fig tree
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oh this that negates the futurist? learn ye the parable of the fig tree, when its buds ye know the summer is nigh.. and all trees. what is the prophecy about the other trees?

day and hour ok the idea of the ac has a time line. 3.5 years when he proclaims to be God in the temple to his removal and return of Christ. before that 3.5 after the church is removed or his first appearance( pre trib and mid trib and post trib argue when the church is removed during this)
so my point stands. there is a time line.
 
jasonc said:
oh this that negates the futurist? learn ye the parable of the fig tree, when its buds ye know the summer is nigh.. and all trees. what is the prophecy about the other trees?

day and hour ok the idea of the ac has a time line. 3.5 years when he proclaims to be God in the temple to his removal and return of Christ. before that 3.5 after the church is removed or his first appearance( pre trib and mid trib and post trib argue when the church is removed during this)
so my point stands. there is a time line.
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Friend don't base the prophecies of the scriptures to one doctrine . For both the pretrib post trib and mid trib believers doctrine of the end is not right.

Listen to me I am young but god has given me wisdom concerning this

The same god who formed you out the clay formed me as well and wisdom is not always given to the men high in age or scholars and the lifter up ones of the world .

Listen to me Jason it's not a division of seven years but it's one time but multiple events and the 2300 days is a time combined

For 3,5 years the holy city is trampled, the saints are killed, the two anointed ones prophesy , the mark of the beast is in power and at the end of it the scattering the power of the holy people is fulfilled.

The 2300 days is for both the transgression that astounds to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot .
Because it's written: a army was given to him against the daily sacrifice because of transgressions

Not the transgressions of the wicked an host is given to him against the daily sacrifice but for the transgression of the elect in those days is why an army is given to the little horn against the daily sacrifice

For the daily sacrifice is gods elect in those days.

Maybe the use of different words which hold the same meaning as the words used will make u understand.

How long shall the vision last concerning the saints and the sin that shocks greatly . To give both the elect and the host of the elect to be killed.

And he said to me for 2300 days then the saints will be washed

For the elect is in the host and the host is in the elect for the host is jesus and the elect is the body of Jesus

And to be trampled under is to be killed. For the living tramples the dead daily because the dead are in the depths of the earth
 
Themessengeroftruth said:
Friend don't base the prophecies of the scriptures to one doctrine . For both the pretrib post trib and mid trib believers doctrine of the end is not right.

Listen to me I am young but god has given me wisdom concerning this

The same god who formed you out the clay formed me as well and wisdom is not always given to the men high in age or scholars and the lifter up ones of the world .

Listen to me Jason it's not a division of seven years but it's one time but multiple events and the 2300 days is a time combined

For 3,5 years the holy city is trampled, the saints are killed, the two anointed ones prophesy , the mark of the beast is in power and at the end of it the scattering the power of the holy people is fulfilled.

The 2300 days is for both the transgression that astounds to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trampled underfoot .
Because it's written: a army was given to him against the daily sacrifice because of transgressions

Not the transgressions of the wicked an host is given to him against the daily sacrifice but for the transgression of the elect in those days is why an army is given to the little horn against the daily sacrifice

For the daily sacrifice is gods elect in those days.

Maybe the use of different words which hold the same meaning as the words used will make u understand.

How long shall the vision last concerning the saints and the sin that shocks greatly . To give both the elect and the host of the elect to be killed.

And he said to me got 2300 days then the saints will be washed

For the elect is in the host and the host is in the elect for the host is jesus and the elect is the body of Jesus
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uhm that is still a time frame. that doctrine of futurism teaches the end after seven years at the battle of har meggido.
 
jasonc said:
uhm that is still a time frame. that doctrine of futurism teaches the end after seven years at the battle of har meggido.
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No not after seven years after around 3.5 years from the time of the mark till the last saints that's is appointed to due is killed then the end comes .

There is a future end if there was not then jesus and all the apostles and saints that sacrificed their lives and suffered hard and long afflictions for christ sake would have been in vain .

And satans works would never be rewarded. And the devil in that circumstance would have defeated the god of gods since he never was killed and judged for all the evil the devil and his angels and children did.

So their is an end for it is written "now I will rise Saith The Lord now I will exalt my self"

For it's written "I've held my peace for a long time now I will cry like a women in labour"

So their is an end for it is written and if there wasn't the book of revelation would have been written in vain .

And we know it's not possible for The Lord to lie upon his words

For it's written . "Heaven and earth will pass away but my words will not pass away"

If there isn't a end gods words concerning the end had passed away because it never came which is not possible because of the scriptures

So in short they're is an end to come in the near future even in our generation
 
What i don't understand is why pre-tribbers read Revelations if it doesn't apply to them. If your a pre-tribb believer aren't you all gone before the tribulation starts?
 
Donovb said:
What i don't understand is why pre-tribbers read Revelations if it doesn't apply to them. If your a pre-tribb believer aren't you all gone before the tribulation starts?
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and talk and worry about it. signs for them not us. i don't understand that either.
 
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