The fall of Lucifer/Satan

[for_his_glory]

Well, if we're honest with ourselves, it doesn't take long to come to the reality that we all make both good and bad choices, quite consistently

It's not a one sided equation because we are all factually bound with an evil-law resisting conscience. Whether it works it's ways to the outside is the only question, but it is an internal reality, regardless

The conscience can only be taken over by the thoughts of the mind and the action we take upon those thoughts. Our actions come from the condition of the heart whether they be good or bad. It's what comes out of the heart that defiles a man.

 

[for_his_glory]

IF Satan entered Judas, then Jesus should have pointed out that there were 2 devils, huh?

There is a very large theology problem when we see people as devils, rather than captives of them

I hope you recognize the difference, and the errors of seeing people as devils, particularly regarding Jewish people, who are all termed God's children in Deut. 14:1, Psalm 82:6, Matthew 23:9, etc.

God doesn't have devil children, nor are "devils" converted to believers

Lottsa errors in people as devils theology

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
John 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

A devil is the personification of evil and that is why Jesus called Judas a devil as his heart was evil.

 

[for_his_glory]

God obviously put a lid over the children of God, a spirit of disobedience, which remains in place to this day. Heb. 10:22 terms it the evil conscience. Paul says all come into this world bound or covered by that agency, Eph. 2:2

Technically we were divided and separated from that agency in faith. But not to the extent of denial of the reality of it

God has also promised to destroy that covering, when their time to end arrives

God never gave anyone He created a spirit of disobedience as this would make God disobedient to Himself since we are all created in His image. We are all born with a sin nature within the flesh because of the fall of Adam who introduced sin into the world. Our nature to sin is only activated when the thoughts come into our mind and then are acted upon.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

It's only when we enter into the holiest by the blood of Christ that our bodies are washed with the pure water being that of the living water being the word of God as then we are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise as we begin to walk in the Spirit. If we are being lead by the Spirit then we will not fall to the thoughts/temptations that come to our mind.

 

[smaller]

Judas was a devil

We're just going to have to disagree on this one, since Satan entered Judas.

The devil should be obvious, as other than Judas

And the issues with making Jews devils are UGE, theologically speaking, because that would make God the father of devils, and yes, that is a problem

 

[smaller]

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
John 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

A devil is the personification of evil and that is why Jesus called Judas a devil as his heart was evil.

Only if we completely ignore the statements that Satan entered Judas.

The instant that scriptural fact is conceeded, then the devil becomes quite entirely obviously, as the devil, Satan, not Judas

One of you is a devil. Hmmmm? Satan entered Judas. I wonder who the devil is?

A no brainer imho

 

[smaller]

God never gave anyone He created a spirit of disobedience as this would make God disobedient to Himself since we are all created in His image. We are all born with a sin nature within the flesh because of the fall of Adam who introduced sin into the world. Our nature to sin is only activated when the thoughts come into our mind and then are acted upon.

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

It's only when we enter into the holiest by the blood of Christ that our bodies are washed with the pure water being that of the living water being the word of God as then we are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise as we begin to walk in the Spirit. If we are being lead by the Spirit then we will not fall to the thoughts/temptations that come to our mind.

Well, if we read 1 Cor. 15 it's again obvious that God never had any intentions of leaving mankind stranded eternally in a flesh body.

We were planted in weakness, corruption and dishonor, as natural people who are doomed to eventually die in the flesh.

1 Cor. 15:42-46

Those are the planting conditions of mankind, the only exception being Jesus

I view the devil as the killer of mankind, for God's Eventual Intentions of the New Man, One Body in Christ

Technically it's not even us on the other side of the equations. Col. 3:3 "Ye are dead, and your life is hid with God in Christ"

The devil just happens to be the instrument to make the passing away of the flesh transpire

 

[for_his_glory]

[ACMP=reminder]
Quantrill and smaller if you want to further your discussion about Judas please take it to a private PM as it has no relevance to this thread. Thank you.
[/ACMP]

 

[for_his_glory]

Well, if we read 1 Cor. 15 it's again obvious that God never had any intentions of leaving mankind stranded eternally in a flesh body.

We were planted in weakness, corruption and dishonor, as natural people who are doomed to eventually die in the flesh.

1 Cor. 15:42-46

Those are the planting conditions of mankind, the only exception being Jesus

I view the devil as the killer of mankind, for God's Eventual Intentions of the New Man, One Body in Christ

Technically it's not even us on the other side of the equations. Col. 3:3 "Ye are dead, and your life is hid with God in Christ"

The devil just happens to be the instrument to make the passing away of the flesh transpire

1Corinthians 15:1-58 says nothing of God's intentions of leaving mankind stranded eternally in a flesh body. His plan from the beginning of creating man is that they were to be holy and blameless before Him. We see that didn't work out because all have ended us sinning falling away from His glory. Corinthians is about the resurrection of Christ, the resurrection of the dead and the resurrection of the body and the mystery and victory.

No one was planted in weakness, corruption and dishonor, but created in the image of God that we be holy and blameless before Him. But, through the fall of Satan deceiving Eve and Adam taking of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil sin soon entered the hearts of man.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

 

[smaller]

No one was planted in weakness, corruption and dishonor

1 Cor. 15
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

IF the resurrection of the dead stems from the above, I'd suggest the conditions are a reality, not only in writing, but also as a matter of factual observations

And IF we are resurrected from the dead, the math is again clear that these conditions apply to us as well

Paul for example pinpointed his own weakness in 2 Cor 12:9, specifically linking it to a messenger of Satan in his flesh, in vs.7

 

[2ndRateMind]

I'm talking about the choices we make in our lives, whether they be good or bad, they are still our choices and Satan has no influence in what we choose. The tree of knowledge has opened our eyes to good and evil and within the flesh there is no good thing.

I'm afraid I just can't agree with any of this. Firstly, I think Satan, and Satan's temptations, have plenty of influence over our activities. Secondly, despite that, I think mostly people are reasonably decent, good people be they Christian or not.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm afraid I just can't agree with any of this. Firstly, I think Satan, and Satan's temptations have plenty of influence over our activities. Secondly, despite that, I think mostly people are reasonably decent, good people be they Christian or not.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Of course Satan's temptations have plenty of influence on others, especially as we see them acting and accepting these temptations. Here is the kicker by saying most people are reasonably decent, but the lake of fire is going to be full of these type of people whether they claim to be a Christian or not as they have a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away, 2Timothy 3:5.

Satan will do anything he can to try and steal our faith, but if we are grounded in faith nothing wavering then we are not going to be deceived by him. As we grow and mature in the written word of God we learn what devices he uses against us and the mind can become his favorite playground.

 

[eddif]

Of course Satan's temptations have plenty of influence on others, especially as we see them acting and accepting these temptations. Here is the kicker by saying most people are reasonably decent, but the lake of fire is going to be full of these type of people whether they claim to be a Christian or not as they have a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away, 2Timothy 3:5.

Satan will do anything he can to try and steal our faith, but if we are grounded in faith nothing wavering then we are not going to be deceived by him. As we grow and mature in the written word of God we learn what devices he uses against us and the mind can become his favorite playground.

I agree.
1 Corinthians 12:1 kjv
1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.


The leading of Gentiles was great in idol worship. ( Satanic dominion) imitation gifts.
Now Paul is about to present the gifts that will help deal with the dominion of satin.
But
Today:
Some make a ceremony of spiritual gifts.
Some think they are gone.
Some are embarrassed about the subject .
Some still practice the spiritual gifts In various methods or ways in various Denominations and privately.
The gifts are not for show. You might not even recognize them in action.
The OT prophets used these gifts.

How did I get off so far? Oh yes - what do you choose. Satiric dominion or the quickening spirit within.

Rednecks do ramble
eddif

 

[2ndRateMind]

Hmmm. I can't help wondering how many of those who would happily consign those ordinary, decent folk to eternal damnation do not belong there, themselves.

As the gospels have it: 'Judge not, lest ye be judged.'

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[eddif]

As the gospels have it: 'Judge not, lest ye be judged.'

This may not make a dent in tradition. I will give it a try.

If God condemns / judges something - it is condemned.
If we judge it ok. Then we are out of order in judging.
…….
If God praises something it is praised.
If we judge it bad, then we are out order in going against God’s judgement.
…….
God does the judging and we say ok.

If we judge wrongly and because of our opposite judgement disagree with God, we will be in danger of opposing God and be judged.

Real wordy for a redneck. I had to learnt how to git er said.

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

I agree.
1 Corinthians 12:1 kjv
1. Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2. Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.


The leading of Gentiles was great in idol worship. ( Satanic dominion) imitation gifts.
Now Paul is about to present the gifts that will help deal with the dominion of satin.
But
Today:
Some make a ceremony of spiritual gifts.
Some think they are gone.
Some are embarrassed about the subject .
Some still practice the spiritual gifts In various methods or ways in various Denominations and privately.
The gifts are not for show. You might not even recognize them in action.
The OT prophets used these gifts.

How did I get off so far? Oh yes - what do you choose. Satiric dominion or the quickening spirit within.

Rednecks do ramble
eddif

This reminds me of the Pharisees that still exist today in the world being worldly churches who make clean the outside of the cup and the platter, but their inward part is full of ravening and wickedness. We read in Matthew 23 where Jesus characterizes them and then condemns them. This is still true today as Jesus will always judge the heart.

As for me I will serve the Lord with integrity and humbleness of heart as I am led by the workings of the Holy Spirit within me.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hmmm. I can't help wondering how many of those who would happily consign those ordinary, decent folk to eternal damnation do not belong there, themselves.

As the gospels have it: 'Judge not, lest ye be judged.'

Best wishes, 2RM.

The saying goes, when you point a finger at someone, three of those fingers are pointing back at you.

 

[for_his_glory]

This may not make a dent in tradition. I will give it a try.

If God condemns / judges something - it is condemned.
If we judge it ok. Then we are out of order in judging.
…….
If God praises something it is praised.
If we judge it bad, then we are out order in going against God’s judgement.
…….
God does the judging and we say ok.

If we judge wrongly and because of our opposite judgement disagree with God, we will be in danger of opposing God and be judged.

Real wordy for a redneck. I had to learnt how to git er said.

eddif

Other words, only God can judge the intents of the heart as all we are allowed to judge is the fruits, whether good or evil, that one displays. We will know who are of Christ by the fruits they display.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[2ndRateMind]

Other words, only God can judge the intents of the heart as all we are allowed to judge is the fruits, whether good or evil, that one displays. We will know who are of Christ by the fruits they display.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Thanks, dear for_his_glory, for reminding me of those verses.

Interestingly, EF Schumacher contends* that there are four fields of knowledge:

• I, inner.
• I, outer.
• You, inner.
• You, outer.

He points out that we have direct access to only two of those fields; I, inner and you, outer. We have to infer from these the I, outer (how others see us) and the you, inner (how you think you are). The fruits of our beings are surely helpful in such audits.

Best wishes, 2RM.

* EF Schumacher, A Guide to the Perplexed.

 

[eddif]

Right now I am starting to see a bigger picture start to try and make itself known.

We are headed toward 120 posts, and it will take me receiving a lot of help, to try and get these different areas examined,organized, and reviewed.

The fruit examination comments by
for_his_ glory
The statements by 2ndRateMind about people
Scripture by smaller in 109
And others I am going to read.

My posts are open to criticism at all times.

The main theme is examination:
When,where, what, why, how much, how many, for what reason, for what purpose, and getting lists from others, and what about judgement day, and maybe beyond.

Way beyond who I am. By grace we may be able to agree to walk together with one mind.

In the mean time. We can read the parable of the sower and try to see levels of understanding seen in different context levels can be paralled.

May our minds, wills, and emotions survive in our body, soul and spirit.

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

Right now I am starting to see a bigger picture start to try and make itself known.

We are headed toward 120 posts, and it will take me receiving a lot of help, to try and get these different areas examined,organized, and reviewed.

The fruit examination comments by
for_his_ glory
The statements by 2ndRateMind about people
Scripture by smaller in 109
And others I am going to read.

My posts are open to criticism at all times.

The main theme is examination:
When,where, what, why, how much, how many, for what reason, for what purpose, and getting lists from others, and what about judgement day, and maybe beyond.

Way beyond who I am. By grace we may be able to agree to walk together with one mind.

In the mean time. We can read the parable of the sower and try to see levels of understanding seen in different context levels can be paralled.

May our minds, wills, and emotions survive in our body, soul and spirit.

eddif

Each and everyone one of us has to search for truth on our own and that can only come by that which has already been written in the full context of knowledge as we compare scripture with scripture, OT with NT. I do not believe we will ever come to all truths, but only know in part as to what God wants us to learn as only the Holy Spirit can open our eyes, ears and heart to receive that which we need to know.