The Falling Away Must Come First

[Quasar]

Thread subject

Quote by J the B:

>>>****
Again! THERE IS NO NEW THING UNDER THE SUN! Got That? Twice in history the True Virgin Fold MUST DEPART FROM CHRIST! OT & END of the NT. Matthewn 23:38 in the midst of the week He was put to death by WHOM? Hebrews 6:6 finds the same repeat 'SPIRITUALLY'. [They are His OWN VIRGIN IN DOCTRINAL TRUTH ONES].

Who on earth do you think are the ones of Revelation 3:9? Take your pick of these 7 Virgin Candelsticks? There is the seventh one, Laodicea mentioned last, Philadelphia, the sixth, is 'KEPT' from the LAST 'hour of temptation' (666 & Plagues) Revelation 3:10-11! Verse 11 finds us at the time of Christ's Second coming. Laodicea IS SPEWED OUT! (1 Peter 4:17 Falling away..JUDGEMENT!) The [whole] fold 7th candelstick IS REMOVED AGAIN! See Revelation 2:5. [[[AND THE SEVEN IS AGAIN TOTALLY FALLEN AWAY & THE SIXTH REPLACES THE SEVENTH leaving only the Seventh.]]] As was the case with the First Virgin Doctrinal True Fold... HIS OWN! (check again Revelation 12:17!)



If you took the time to read, you would understand, my reference to NO FALLING AWAY pertains to the text of 2 Thes.2, before going way off in another direction to express your opinion.


Quote by J the B:

>>>Will you please get back to [IT IS WRITTEN?] See again & again Jeremiah 17:5 0n. CURSED, you got that? This 'post' is not much differant than that of the TRADITION of Romes stuff. Who cares about your 'choice' of what the word of 'is' means? (Bill Clinton) All one needs is to look back into history of the WORD OF GOD. What did Israel do? Who fell AWAY, who left Whom? See again Revelation 12:17

ALL need to 'junk' the arm of flesh stuff, and get back to Bible Study! Matthew 4:4 & 2 Timothy 3:16 never even mentions the Titus 3:9-11 VAIN Arm of flesh extra stuff, other than to stuff it! NO PERSONAL OFFENSE MEANT!<<<


Nothing but a rambling of personal opinion! <SNIP> ! "No personal offense?" Then what do you call it junior? Your M/O is like all those who have no way to support their own position in any debate, so they attack their opponent personally, which is the epitome of immaturity.


Quote by J the B:

>>>Blessings??? Are you kidding me? Are you tooooo proud to go back to square (?) one, and start all over again? You remind me somewhat of Saul (Paul) who was killing Christians & who was REQUIRED to make a total about/face. It WAS ALL GIVEN UP! Acts 9:6 & Acts 9:4-5.
You say that our work is not killing Christians??? Ask yourself how many will be lost by the eternal evil Vain flawed teaching.. with 'some' ones even convicted of it being flawed, (a lie) of the Burning in hell through all of eternity? (plus their/self!)
One thing is certain, the accurate heavenly record books will reveal this question! And back to the FALLING AWAY FIRST? Even a foolish Virgin can see this! Bottom line?? This 'doctrine' has FALLEN AWAY from the Truth! Compare Ecclesiastes 3:14 with the last verses of the Master's Words.<<<


The above abrasive rhetoric is nothing but opinion directed at my person from one who has yet to learn how to be Christian with his brothers and sisters in Christ. When it is understood that false positions are not blindly defended, and an effort is made to study what they do teach, the truth will be found along with maturity and wisdom.

You failed to respond to my questions and as for your entire judgemental post: <SNIP> See Mt.7:1-2 and try applying what it says!


BLESSINGS!


Quasar

 

[John the Baptist]

Just one thought! And It is personal for the one behind the 'posting', (whom ever that might be??)
[one of us two], as we are now, as of today, will find us with the group of Obadiah 1:16 as I see it. You think that that is me perhaps? You might be right, but if you are not, then it will be you. I will leave it there, as far as our person goes. And my young one, that is as close as you have or ever will find me reading your mind. But your post stinks of high heavens!

Consider this: Some will say, how can that be? We BELIEVE! ??? Do the ones of Revelation 17:5 not BELIEVE? Are they not the Abomination of the Earth as stated? Why can 'myself' be saved, yet not all of these many 'folds' & individuals? Why have they FALLEN AWAY & not me? (if that is the case with me?) It is the Truth for them as Documented! Why is that so?

It takes no genius to know that they ARE FALLEN AWAY! But most of them God cannot move, period. Luke 16:30-31
---John

 

[Vic C.]

Nothing but a rambling of personal opinion! <SNIP> ! "No personal offense?" Then what do you call it junior? Your M/O is like all those who have no way to support their own position in any debate, so they attack their opponent personally, which is the epitome of immaturity.

... And my young one, that is as close as you have or ever will find me reading your mind. But your post stinks of high heavens!

Please stop. :-? You two are talking to each other as though you each think the other is a child. NEWS FLASH! lol You two are a lot closer in age than you may know.

So... go for that bottle of Centrum Silver vitamins and relax for a bit. (yes, I can say this, I am pushing 50 myself) :

 

[JustifiedByFaith]

Dear friends,

Age 42 here and my wife still thinks I don't have a clue. :-D :

 

[John the Baptist]

Dear friends,

Age 42 here and my wife still thinks I don't have a clue. :-D :

******
John here: I wrote this while I was younger! :wink:
Anyway, it pretty well explains my spiritual take on 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. You can see that it is not meant to be a personal post to anyone in particular? (it is only slightly altered)
____

Who you or I am does not change the prophecy below! We can be dead (and perhaps will be... I am retired at age 73 come Dec.) and still God is going to have an organized 'Remnant Philadelphia Fold' according to Christ's Everlasting Gospel, period! See Matthew 16:18-19 & Matthew 18:15-18, that is the everlasting Gospel!! John 17:20-23-John 10:16. God will have no loose cannon's saved! Nahum 1:9-Ephesians 6:12. (or sin would again arise)

These ones are still in the 'shaking stage' of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. But Christ will not come again until it is done according to His Everlasting plan! How far along is the shaking??

Notice from the Adventist Review April 2000 page 5 by William G. Johnson:
"In our day the Advent message is roaring like a prairie fire across the face of the earth, and young people are fanning the flames. (Take note!) For Seventh-day Adventists this is the best of times, and the worst of times. Thousands of our dearest and best are walking away from the church that nurtured them, ..."

OK: He does not say why, or where they are going? Many are meeting separately. Some are on their way to be eternally lost perhaps, who have given up the Virgin doctrines of the Remnant & old mother. They are actually scattered all over the place. See Jeremiah 15:16-21. Notice the remarks about the prophecy below. One friend that my wife & I have helped support some, held a series of meetings a while back where he baptized 16 souls. They call themselves the 7th day Remnant church. And some are still going back into Adventist Sabbath schools to do the work that had taught them a need for this shaking.

OK: A 'fold' is a sanctuary, (represents heavens Zion Matthew 25:1-2) tabernacle, church, denomination, both good or bad, but the 7 churches represent the virgin ones both good and gone bad. Rev. 17:5 ARE ALL OF THE BAD ONLY. (call it what you desire?)
In Christ's day the reformed fold were true off-shoots! The apostate fold stayed put. John the Baptist even had con/verts 'outside' of Israel of old. Yet their doctrines were virgin ones, & Christ was with them. John was a true off-shoot with the Father's Blessing on Christ when John baptized Him.

Christ's Virgin 'fold' was twice divorced in the Bible. (Matthew 23:38 - Revelation 3:9 & Revelation 3:16-17) When Christ came the first time to His own & when He comes the second time to His own. Those are Virgin in doctrines only. Pure Perfect doctrines. Then there were the Rev. 17:1-5 one's being the great whore with 'daughter harlots'. Compare John 10:16 with Christ's Words of other 'sheep' have I that are not of this 'fold'. Then must I bring. How come?? Because Christ is not in these false non/virgin folds, or why call them out?? Rev. 18:4 states the same ending. 'Come out of her (a woman) 'my' people and be not 'partaker of her sins'. Read on! They will be lost unless they obey.

Our USA laws are based on this principle, drive the bank robbers get away car & we are guilty. How could the catholic fold's membership not be guilty by supporting with Gods blessings that which is open print these days? Not to mention their 'false' doctrines? Or protestants with a sun Sabbath.

OK: Fold, Virgin Fold, or harlot fold, Church, (true or whore harlot, one has virgin doctrines and Christ is inside of her, *or they can be Christ/less! either one. It takes both Christ with His virgin doctrines to be 'in' Christ! Rom. 8:1 )

The last church, candlestick, or fold as in Virgin doctrines, is Laodicea. She is the last recorded seventh fold. No different than the repeated history of Virgin Israel of old.!! If one believes both the Word of God & the S.O.P. The Eccl. 1:9-10 & chapter 3:15 verses, & Vol. 5, bottom pg. 75-76.

But we see the seven disappear as did Israel of old also, & the number six replace her candlestick! Revelation 2:5, Revelation 3:16-17 is 'Spewed out' & Rev. 3:9 gives the new leader in both histories & finds them in DESOLATE of Christ!! See Matthew 23:38. (not 70AD yet)

Philadelphia is seen in Revelation 3:10 as being kept from the last great hour of temptation, & verse 11 tells us of Christ's coming. Philadelphia is the Remnant out of Revelation 12:17 in both histories. See again Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15.

These two folds are to be the spectacle of the world, held up in world court for a witness of the Everlasting Gospel. See Matthew 10:23's REPEAT. Then the 666 testing will find the few left from the faithful world court testimony of Jesus, & His straight forward 3 Angels messages in full maturity. Outpouring of the Fullness of the Latter Rain!

You do not like this?? The Shaking is not supposed to be liked, is it? Yet, that does nothing to change the Everlasting Gospel, huh!! And if it takes another year, or ten? Christ will not come until His Everlasting Gospel is Documented!

 

[Quasar]

Thread subject

Quote by J the B:

>>>Who you or I am does not change the prophecy below! We can be dead (and perhaps will be... I am retired at age 73 come Dec.) and still God is going to have an organized 'Remnant Philadelphia Fold' according to Christ's Everlasting Gospel, period! See Matthew 16:18-19 & Matthew 18:15-18, that is the everlasting Gospel!! John 17:20-23-John 10:16. God will have no loose cannon's saved! Nahum 1:9-Ephesians 6:12. (or sin would again arise)

These ones are still in the 'shaking stage' of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3. But Christ will not come again until it is done according to His Everlasting plan! How far along is the shaking??


Q: "Who you or I am does not change the prophecy below!" But your qualifications sure do! The only "loose cannon" would seem to be you! I find no Scriptural support for any "shaking" in 2 Thes.2:1-3. As Paul stated, the Day of the Lord had not yet come - and still has not come to this day, as God prophecied in Isa.13:13.

FYI, I am ten years your senior and a WW2 Vet, who spent two years in the Pacific/Asiatic Theater with the USAAF Air Corps, in my mid 80's! I have a BA degree from Prairie Bible Institute in Three Hills, Alberta Canada, in Bible Studies and Christian History. And an MA in Theology and Prophecy from Liberty University Seminary, in Lynchburg, VA. In addition, I have four children ranging in ages from 60 down to 51. Eight grandchildren and eighteen great grand children. Now with that having been said, what are your qualifications?

My views have been posted and there is nothing more to add to them, in spite of any further distortion you may attempt adding to it

Peace,

Quasar.

 

[John the Baptist]

"I have a BA degree from Prairie Bible Institute in Three Hills, Alberta Canada, in Bible Studies and Christian History. And an MA in Theology and Prophecy from Liberty University Seminary, in Lynchburg,
VA."

Victor: OK, I resist the urge. :wink:

 

[Vic C.]

"I have a BA degree from Prairie Bible Institute in Three Hills, Alberta Canada, in Bible Studies and Christian History. And an MA in Theology and Prophecy from Liberty University Seminary, in Lynchburg,
VA."

Victor: OK, I resist the urge. :wink:

OK! A triumph over evil. yeehaw!

 

[Quasar]

Thread subject

"I have a BA degree from Prairie Bible Institute in Three Hills, Alberta Canada, in Bible Studies and Christian History. And an MA in Theology and Prophecy from Liberty University Seminary, in Lynchburg,
VA."

Victor: OK, I resist the urge. :wink:

OK! A triumph over evil. yeehaw!

You seem to have a problem of some kind about my qualifications, which I can add much more to than the above, which has been placed here because this site does not provide any public profile for members to observe them by. To provide a background record of qualifications in Biblical training and Christian history to support the views I post here.

As a Forums Administrator for another Christian web site for six years with more than 11,500 threads and posts, and posting more than 2,000 more on six other Christian sites I have also posted on, including this one, there is very little I haven't seen and experienced from others I have interfaced with on them

If that poses a problem for you in some way, please feel free to spit it out!

Blessings,

Quasar

 

[lecoop]

Quasar,

Education is great, and I applaud you for it, for it is not easy to come by. If it were, all would be phd's! But in reality, all this proves is that you have a sharp mind that has the ability to learn. (Again, this is a good thing!)

However, as you and I both know, there are many, many phd's that are heading straight for hell! I worked for 17 years at a Forestry Research laboratory, with some of the smartest people in the world in their field. You guessest it - only one was born again!

Therefore, it is not just being smart, or having an education that proves your answers are correct. There is another thing called "understanding." And there is yet another thing called revealed knowledge. Without these two, even a phd is lost in the bible.

I know you and I agree on a lot in these threads, but in the ereas that I have commented against your beliefs, I did so because that belief was based on man's ideas, not on the bible. Please don't just "turn me off," and ignore the rest of my posts. If what I have posted is in error, someone as astute as you should be able to prove my ideas wrong with scripture, taken in context. For instance, I just posted a new thread about the midpoint intermission. Please read it, and comment. I will look forward to your comments.

 

[John the Baptist]

Last days?

The Bible states of a falling away in the last days. Well ...
I find this of real interest. Vic posted the site location a while ago. It seemed to die out? It was posted by Vic for what Baptist believe, if I remember correctly? Yet, the material on the link is good, but how can any person O.S.A.S. fall away? And to be honest with the many Baptist here in S.C., I never even gave it a second thought that their doctrine had any 'Church Discipline'?? --John
_________________________________________


EDITORS' NOTE: This is the last column in a four-part series on church discipline.

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (BP)--When should the church exercise church discipline? In one sense, a form of redemptive church discipline is exercised whenever the Bible is taught and the truth of God's Word is applied to the lives of believers. The convicting power of the Word of God is the first corrective in the hearts of Christ's people. Nevertheless, a more personal and confrontational mode of discipline is required when sin threatens the faithfulness, integrity, and witness of God's people.

The Bible reveals three main areas of danger requiring discipline. These are fidelity of doctrine, purity of life, and unity of fellowship. Each is of critical and vital importance to the health and integrity of the church.

The theological confusion and compromise which mark the modern church are directly traceable to the church's failure to separate itself from doctrinal error and heretics. On this matter the Bible is clear: "Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds" [2 John v. 9-11]. The Apostle Paul instructed the Galatians that "if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is accursed." [Galatians 1:8-9]

The letters of 2 Peter and Jude explicitly warn of the dangers presented to the church in the form of false prophets and heretics. Jude alerts the church that "certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who long before were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ" [Jude v. 4]. Similarly, Peter warns "there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves" [2 Peter 2:1].

The church must separate itself from these heresies -- and from the heretics. The permissive posture of the church in this century has allowed the most heinous heresies to grow unchecked -- and heretics to be celebrated. Francis Schaeffer was among the most eloquent modern prophets who decried this doctrinal cowardice. Schaeffer emphatically denied that a church could be a true Christian fellowship and allow false doctrine. As he stated, "one cannot explain the explosive dynamite, the dunamis, of the early church apart from the fact that they practiced two things simultaneously: orthodoxy of doctrine and orthodoxy of community in the midst of the visible church, a community which the world can see. By the grace of God, therefore, the church must be known simultaneously for its purity of doctrine and the reality of its community."

The visible community of the true church is also to be evident in its moral purity. Christians are to live in obedience to the Word of God and to be exemplary in their conduct and untarnished in their testimony. A lack of attention to moral purity is a sure sign of congregational rebellion before the Lord.

Writing to the Corinthians, Paul chastised severely: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God" [1 Corinthians 6:9-11].

When Christians sin, their sin is to be confronted by the church in accordance with the pattern revealed in Scripture. The goal is the restoration of a sister or a brother, not the creation of a public spectacle. The greatest moral danger to the church is the toleration of sin, public and private. One of the greatest blessings to the church is the gift of biblical church discipline -- the ministry of the keys.

The integrity of the church is also dependent upon the true unity of its fellowship. Indeed, one of the most repeated warnings found in the New Testament is the admonition against toleration of schismatics. The unity of the church is one of its most visible distinctives -- and precious gifts.

The warnings are severe: "Now I urge you brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them. For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ, but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting" [Romans 16:17-18]. Writing to Titus, Paul instructed that the church should "Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and sinning, being self-condemned" [Titus 3:10-11].

A breach in the unity of the church is a scandal in the Body of Christ. The church is consistently exhorted to practice and preserve a true unity in true doctrine and biblical piety. This unity is not the false unity of a lowest-common-denominator Christianity, the "Gospel lite" preached and taught in so many modern churches, but in the healthy and growing maturity of the congregation as it increases in grace and knowledge of the Word of God.

The ongoing function of church discipline is to be a part of individual self-examination and congregational reflection. The importance of maintaining integrity in personal relationships was made clear by our Lord in the Sermon on the Mount, as He instructed the disciples that anger against a brother is a deadly sin. Reconciliation is a mandate -- not a hypothetical goal. "Therefore, if you are presenting your offering at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering" [Matthew 5:23-24].

Similarly, Paul warned against participating in the Lord's Supper amidst divisions. The Supper itself is a memorial of the broken body and shed blood of the Savior, and must not be desecrated by the presence of divisions or controversies within the congregation, or by unconfessed sin on the part of individual believers. "For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes. Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly." [1 Corinthians 11:26-29]

The "discipline of the table" is thus one of the most important disciplinary functions of the congregation. The Lord's Supper is not to be served indiscriminately, but only to those baptized believers who are under the discipline of the church and in good standing with their congregation.

In the 21st century, the great task of the church is to prove itself to be in continuity with the genuine church as revealed in the New Testament -- proving its authenticity by a demonstration of pure faith and authentic community. We must regain the New Testament concern for fidelity of doctrine, purity of life and unity of fellowship. We must recover the missing mark of the church.

 

[Zero Link]

Ok, all the arguing can stop. This is our beliefs. People can turn scriptures around to make it say that there will be a pre trib rapture and they can do the same to deny the pre trib rapture. People can turn the scriptures around to make it seem like a totally different thing. I've EVEN heard people saying the great tribulation isn't true, and brought up scriptures that made sense. But we all know that the great trib is true. Whatever happens happens. Really, im tired of hearing all this there will and there won't be a rapture. My opinion, why would God want his people to go through the world's worst tyranny? To test our faith? If he knows we are struggling right now then why would he bring us more pain? Its like some of you are saying he is trying to make us become non-christians. And PLUS, alot of people that are non pre-trib rapture believers ALWAYS SAY, "and i mean ALL OF THEM SAY" (Christians will fall away, Christians will be persecuted, christians this and christians that.) And they brought up scriptures where it said it or whatever. Why is it just christians? How come its not catholics and others that are with Christ? Seems like everybody just want to point out Christians. I don't even think they used the word Christians back then. but idk, this is my opinion. This sentence here says it all:

Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?bo ... version=31

and I do believe that the people who didn't believe in the rapture or the departure (same thing I believe) will be saved because it doesn't mean that they are sinning, they are just being aware. Me, personally, I think there is going to be a rapture but then again i have set my mind to where if its not a rapture, then i won't be shocked but I will be prepared. But I seriously think the only ones that are going to stay here are the ones that didn't believe in God at first, but decided to believe in him after they witness all the mess going on when the anti-christ appears.

Ok now watch somebody pull scriptures out of their mouths and try their best to prove me wrong. I've seen some people that will pwn a non rapture believer with the best scriptures they can find that concludes that we"the people that believes in God and thats with God NOW AND NOT AFTER THE RAPTURE" will be taken away.That sentence I just quoted at the beginning of the post

Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed.

basically proves to me that we will be taken away from this Earth, and we are the reason why the anti-christ can't move on with his plan to take over the world.