Originally posted by rowel,
Unless we throw out Mark 16:16, you or I or anyone else is NOT saved until baptized...
What is baptism? Is it a
"carnal" outward religious ritual performed with water?
Water baptism is not necessary, simply because
"nothing without a man" either cleanses or defiles a man. It is what is within a man that baptizes and cleanses Him.
Mark 7:15 " There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."
Matthew 23:25 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter [with water baptisms],
but within they are full of extortion and excess."
Matthew 23:26 "Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also."
I am not denying the need for baptism. I am merely affirming that neither Christ nor Paul baptized
with water.
John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
John 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)"
Why are we told that Jesus Himself baptized not, but His disciples, if it is not to tell us that His disciples were
"yet carnal" and in need of carnal rituals which in reality have no effect upon
"the inside of the cup?"
Even Paul did not realize the uselessness of rituals at the very beginning of his ministry for Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:14 "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius."
In time (like with all of us) Paul understood that carnal religious rituals can in no way cleanse inwardly:
1 Corinthians 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."
It took Paul several years to realize the depth of this truth revealed by our Lord:
Mark 7:15 "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man."
That does not mean that they did not teach baptism. But
the baptism they both taught was the kind that cleaned a man inwardly:
Matthew 3:11 "I [John the water baptizer] indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, AND WITH FIRE."
That is how Christ baptizes to this day.
Christ tells us that His words are spirit:
John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
As with us all, including the disciples and Paul, as we mature in our walk we eventually we come to see the futility of outward rituals, and come to see the Truth of Christ's words that
it is His words that clean us and burn out the "wood, hay and stubble" within.
Paul came to see what really washes us of our sins. Here is the water that really baptizes us, and it is not physical water:
Ephesians 5:26 "That he might sanctify and cleanse it [the church] with the WASHING OF WATER BY THE WORD,
Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
And,
1 Corinthians 1:17 "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."
Paul is not saying that he does not believe in the doctrine of baptism
s. Note that it is in
the plural. Paul taught the doctrine of
"true" baptisms in Ephesians 5:26 (above). And in 1 Corinthians 1:17 (above) he is telling us that He was not sent to water baptize. If the apostle Paul is
"not sent to baptize" with water, then should we?
