The False Security of Eternal Security

[Mitspa]

ezra:

Well, exactly. There needs to be 100% reliance on the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus at the Cross. Any hint of self-reliance or works-reliance alters the whole picture.

Blessings.

Col 2:6

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:7

Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


Thats sounds like 100% to me!

 

[farouk]

Col 2:6

As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:7

Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:


Thats sounds like 100% to me!

Well, exactly.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I disagree. You either are saved or you are not. You can live, hear, believe and follow Christ and still not be saved. There were many that followed Christ and was not saved.

You posted "You can live, hear, believe and follow Christ and still not be saved."

From Jn 10:27,28 those that continue to hear and follow Christ cannot be snatched out of God's hand.

Jn 11:26 those that continue to live and believe shall not die.


So one can know with certainty that if he continues to hear, believe, follow Christ he will be saved.


The flip side is if a Christian quits hearing, believing and following Christ he can know with certainty he will be lost.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

we have a sign over the pulpit of the church i pastor ..if your %99 saved your %100 lost

can you pin point the exact time this takes place ? the very second ? you surely don,t under stand the Love of GOD. those that are saved may/ will falter. but they will make a turn around.. do you think king David died and went to hell?

Christ said if ye love Me keep my commandments and Christ also said His sheep hear and follow Him. So one can know if he is hearing and obeying/following Christ's words or not...."And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep his commandments.", 1 Jn 2:3 David was very repentant for his sins and Jesus said in Lk 13:3,5 except ye repent ye shall likewise perish. So if one repents of his sins he can know he will be saved.


1 Jn 2:5 "But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him."

1 Jn 5:13 "These things have I written unto you that believe (present tense) on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

 

[Eventide]

Well, once again.. a person can only be saved ONCE and can only die TWICE.. and that's the second death...

Simple scriptural facts..

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

In Romans 11:25 Paul specifies even enemies of the Gospel are BELOVED, saved and included same in the 'all of Israel' at least in part to specifically counter the intentions of limited sight.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

You are confusing fleshly Israel with spiritual Israel. For fleshly Israel to be saved they would have to submit to the commandments of God, Rom 10:3 by belieivng and confessing with the mouth. Yet only a remnant had so the rest were lost and it was Paul's prayer that they might be saved by obeying God. SPiritual Israel are those that have already obeyed God and are part of the church which all inthe the church, all in spiritual Israel will be saved.

3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

It is quite funny to see that plain statements of fact are denied to hold up a persons doctrine. Your alternative writing of that Psalm doesn't even exist except in your own head.

very funny.

There is a clear difference between being born astray and going astray. Going astray show personal culpablility while born astray does not.

Again, you require a re-write to get there.

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

IT is not unusual for people to not believe their own eyes in the world of theology, and they will instead read 'their imaginations' as a replacement.

Yeah. Your point?

Do you not have a grip on the fact that God created 'all things?' All powers, everything there is was and is CREATED only by God.

There are many 'freewillers' that are in effect POLY-THEISTIC having various 'things' 'powers' 'evil' creating itself APART from God. And yes, that is the essence of Polytheism/ Poly DEISM or 'multiple creators.'

This infection also came upon the early church as a heresy where certain ones tried to say the God of the O.T. was a different God than God in the N.T.

It's a basic throwback to pagan idolatry in such.

s

If the Lord created wickedness then the Lord is wicked. Explain that one away while I watch.

Gen 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. "

So according to you wickedness must be a "very good" thing.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Well, once again.. a person can only be saved ONCE and can only die TWICE.. and that's the second death...

Simple scriptural facts..

A person who is born twice dies once

(Physically born and spritually born again dies only physical death)

A person who is born once dies twice

(Only physically born and not spirtually born again dies both a physical and spiritual death)

 

[Eventide]

A person who is born twice dies once

(Physically born and spritually born again dies only physical death)

A person who is born once dies twice

(Only physically born and not spirtually born again dies both a physical and spiritual death)

And this doesn't change the simple scriptural fact that a person can only be saved ONCE... and can only die TWICE.

 

[smaller]

You are confusing fleshly Israel with spiritual Israel. For fleshly Israel to be saved they would have to submit to the commandments of God, Rom 10:3 by belieivng and confessing with the mouth.

Moses himself died and was not allowed to enter the Promised Land because of unbelief.

Would you like to claim that Moses was not saved? Would rather enjoy seeing you take that position just for fun.

Hebrews 3:
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

And this regardless of all the miraculous engagements they 'all' had with God Himself.

Yet only a remnant had so the rest were lost and it was Paul's prayer that they might be saved by obeying God. SPiritual Israel are those that have already obeyed God and are part of the church which all inthe the church, all in spiritual Israel will be saved.

It is unlikely that your faith or the faith of any other believer presently was any different in ability to 'hold themselves' to enter. Do the math. Every person in the Exodus over the age of 20 except for Joshua and Caleb died in the wilderness.

Do the math. It is estimated that the number of those in the Exodus could have been anywhere from 600,000 to 2 million. And how many made it across the Jordan?

TWO.

Yeah, that's a remnant alright.

s

 

[smaller]

If the Lord created wickedness then the Lord is wicked.

There is a firm basis in theology that The Creator can create any 'thing' and not Himself be the same as that 'thing' created.

Theology 101.

Explain that one away while I watch.

Gen 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. "

So according to you wickedness must be a "very good" thing.

Obviously the TREE of the fruit of knowledge of EVIL (and good) was in the Garden.

And there by Gods Own Hand and creation, as well as the tempter and the workings of deception.

All good dog you say?

s

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

There is a firm basis in theology that The Creator can create any 'thing' and not Himself be the same as that 'thing' created.

Theology 101.

I've never heard of such a thing and it's simply not the case. Isa 6:3 God is perfectly holy. God is "without iniquity, just and right [is] he", Deut 32:4. Psa 5:4 "For thou [art] not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee." Hab 1:13 "[Thou art] of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity:"

THe idea of God creating evil goes completely against His nature. God created man with as a free moral agent and when man choose to sin, then man is the cause of evil for God is not repsonsible for man choosing to sin. Mt 15:19,20 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are [the things] which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man." Evil came from the heart of man.

Obviously the TREE of the fruit of knowledge of EVIL (and good) was in the Garden.

And there by Gods Own Hand and creation, as well as the tempter and the workings of deception.

All good dog you say?

s

Again, Gen 1:31 says every thing God created was GOOD. Do you disagree with this verse?
God created the tree of knowedge of good and evil but creating that tree is not creating evil. When man chose to eat of that tree then man sinned causing evil.
Satan was created by God but not created evil for Satan choose himself to do evil.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

And this doesn't change the simple scriptural fact that a person can only be saved ONCE... and can only die TWICE.

A person is born again once, but can fall away becoming lost but be restored.

Example in Acts 8 where Simon is said to have believed and been baptized/born again. He later sinned by trying to buy the power of the HS. He was not told by Peter to be born again/baptized again, but told to repent which he did. So Simon was born physically once, born again spiritually once, but fell away repented and forgiven.

 

[smaller]

I've never heard of such a thing and it's simply not the case. Isa 6:3 God is perfectly holy.

I didn't expect you to understand.

Will say again as a simple fact. God can create any 'thing' and not 'be' that thing created.

Simple enough?

???

Will say again, those who say 'things' create themselves are poly-theists. poly-creators.

Simple enough?

???

Neither Satan nor the power of evil 'create' themselves. They were and are made and deployed by God Himself for His Sole Intentions and Purposes.

His Superior Hands remain over 'all things.'

s

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I didn't expect you to understand.

Will say again as a simple fact. God can create any 'thing' and not 'be' that thing created.

Simple enough?

???

Not possible at all without creating a contradiction in the nature of God. God cannot be pure, holy, without iniquity, hate wickedness, etc but yet at the same time create wickedness. So you have yet to explain your problem away.

Will say again, those who say 'things' create themselves are poly-theists. poly-creators.

Simple enough?

???



Neither Satan nor the power of evil 'create' themselves. They were and are made and deployed by God Himself for His Sole Intentions and Purposes.

His Superior Hands remain over 'all things.'

s

Who has said anything about anyone creating themselves?

Do you disagree with Gen 1:31?

 

[smaller]

Not possible at all without creating a contradiction in the nature of God. God cannot be pure, holy, without iniquity, hate wickedness, etc but yet at the same time create wickedness. So you have yet to explain your problem away.

He certainly can and DID. By the Sole Virtue of His Own Superiority over 'all things' can and does create all things and those same 'all things' will serve His Purposes.

It's only a matter of perspective. You see an inferior God who can not overcome evil and make good come about from the deployment of same.

Others will see God As Divinely Superior over any particular thing, even the sum of all things.

Who has said anything about anyone creating themselves?

You as a self creating 'chooser' and 'potential self creating unchooser' present as a poly creationist.

His Hand is in fact over and upon every 'thing' that happens in His creation.

2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

s

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

He certainly can and DID. By the Sole Virtue of His Own Superiority over 'all things' can and does create all things and those same 'all things' will serve His Purposes.

It's only a matter of perspective. You see an inferior God who can not overcome evil and make good come about from the deployment of same.

Others will see God As Divinely Superior over any particular thing, even the sum of all things.

Again, you create a contradiction in the nature of God by having Him do someting agaisnt His nature, so how will you clear that up?

Did God force Adam agaisnt his will to sin? No, Adam did that of his own choice and thierefore is responsibvle for that choice in causing sin to enter the world. And God is not responsible for what Adam chose so God is not repsonsible for sin/wickedness entering the world.

You as a self creating 'chooser' and 'potential self creating unchooser' present as a poly creationist.

His Hand is in fact over and upon every 'thing' that happens in His creation.

2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

s

What I said was God created Satan but God did not create him evil. Satan was created good but choose of his own wil to do evil. If God created beings to be evil then Hitler is not responsible for the evil he did God is. Hitler was just doing what God created him to do therefore God is culpable for his actions just as Gdo would be culpable for the actions of Satan IF God created him evil.

 

[smaller]

Again, you create a contradiction in the nature of God by having Him do someting agaisnt His nature, so how will you clear that up?

Using your intended sight (which I credit being put upon you by God fwiw) God should have only created Himself.

All things in creation are by 'nature' less than the Creator.

He Ever Has Superiority over 'all and any things' in His creation. There is nothing that can or will equate to God, ever.

Evil just happens to be way down on the scale of things created by God.

Did God force Adam agaisnt his will to sin?

And again have a simplistic notion of what transpired. It's much more interesting than what God has allowed you to contemplate.

No, Adam did that of his own choice and thierefore is responsibvle for that choice in causing sin to enter the world.

Nothing more above than the limited sight that God Himself imposes on many. People can only see and have what God gives them to see. That is how you happen to see. There are better ways to see in others eyes, also given to them to see.

And God is not responsible for what Adam chose so God is not repsonsible for sin/wickedness entering the world.

And some eyes are given to reductionist drivel. So what?

What I said was God created Satan but God did not create him evil. Satan was created good

Jesus said the devil was a murderer from the beginning. There is a prevalent christian fairy tale used primarily by the 'freewill' camps to isolate God from the evil 'facts' in His creation. Others have no use for same sights because they are not presented that way. Show a single statement that Satan was Holy. There are none to be had. Yet the christian fairy tale is handed off and down in that camp so that their 'self will' construct can exist as it's own creator and rewarder, forcing Gods Hand to reward them and to SNIP God out of His creation as it pertains to the 'fact' of evil.

but choose of his own wil to do evil. If God created beings to be evil then Hitler is not responsible for the evil he did God is. Hitler was just doing what God created him to do therefore God is culpable for his actions just as Gdo would be culpable for the actions of Satan IF God created him evil.

Again, a reductionist filter. Nothing more. God in an instant can wipe away every evil as if it never existed or happened and that is in fact exactly what will happen.

Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

They will melt away as if they never were and will fade in The Superior Light of His Eternal Glory.

enjoy!

s

 

[rrowell]

Using your intended sight (which I credit being put upon you by God fwiw) God should have only created Himself.

All things in creation are by 'nature' less than the Creator.

He Ever Has Superiority over 'all and any things' in His creation. There is nothing that can or will equate to God, ever.

Evil just happens to be way down on the scale of things created by God.



And again have a simplistic notion of what transpired. It's much more interesting than what God has allowed you to contemplate.



Nothing more above than the limited sight that God Himself imposes on many. People can only see and have what God gives them to see. That is how you happen to see. There are better ways to see in others eyes, also given to them to see.



And some eyes are given to reductionist drivel. So what?


Jesus said the devil was a murderer from the beginning. There is a prevalent christian fairy tale used primarily by the 'freewill' camps to isolate God from the evil 'facts' in His creation. Others have no use for same sights because they are not presented that way. Show a single statement that Satan was Holy. There are none to be had. Yet the christian fairy tale is handed off and down in that camp so that their 'self will' construct can exist as it's own creator and rewarder, forcing Gods Hand to reward them and to SNIP God out of His creation as it pertains to the 'fact' of evil.



Again, a reductionist filter. Nothing more. God in an instant can wipe away every evil as if it never existed or happened and that is in fact exactly what will happen.

Isaiah 65:17
For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

They will melt away as if they never were and will fade in The Superior Light of His Eternal Glory.

enjoy!

s

Look at all the paraphrased "you don't see it", and "I see it" in your posts.

You seem to have this boastful idea that God has made a revelation, and you are the only one to see it? I would think that in itself would say something about what YOU see.

The mystery from the beginning was revealed to us through the Gospel:

Romans 16:25-27 (KJV)
25Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Did you ever think it may be you that is blinded?


It wasn't written "smaller encoded" and everyone else is "blinded".

 

[smaller]

Look at all the paraphrased "you don't see it", and "I see it" in your posts.

Some see and bow to poly theism. Sift your way through whatever you think to you.

You seem to have this boastful idea that God has made a revelation, and you are the only one to see it? I would think that in itself would say something about what YOU see.

One of the most basic sights is the sight of our Maker and His creation and Superiority over 'all things.'

It is no crime to observe what 'God' another sees.

Did you ever think it may be you that is blinded?

I admit partial sight. How about you?

Whatever I see is no harm to any believer. Do you sense fear for some odd reason?

It wasn't written "smaller encoded" and everyone else is "blinded".

I am not a fan of poly theism in general. How about you?

?

 

[rrowell]

I admit partial sight. How about you?

Whatever I see is no harm to any believer. Do you sense fear for some odd reason?

What have I to fear?

I use the one true source to the knowledge of the will of God, I let no man and his doctrine slant my view, I believe that your view and others would be closer to that one view if you did the same.

I am not a fan of poly theism in general. How about you?

?

There is more than believing there is "one God", along with "one God" is obedience to Him which requires the "will of man" to be in agreement with the "will of God" something you fault what you call "free willers" of which I will proudly answer to that name.

From the source I cited above to answer this question:

James 2:19 (KJV)
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Just believing in "one God" just doesn't cut the mustered.