The False Security of Eternal Security

[Ernest T. Bass]

Said nothing of the sort and pointed to a factually opposite conclusion from the text in Romans 11:25-30 as it pertains to 'all of Israel,' even those who were made enemies of the Gospel by God Himself in our behalves.

But also as stated prior 'some' can NOT hear it or see it, though it be put in front of them continually.


And you will continue to see 'only man' as that is how God has slated you to see presently. There really is no other way available for you to see, hard as you may try with your own applied will.



Do you really think any believer has a will that wants to be burned alive forever?

If not, why in the world would you even think of trying to promote that if such have called upon the Lord to save them by the FREE GRACE which He Himself granted to them?

To me that seems very much opposed to the Will of God to save them, and I tend to mark and avoid such proponents as they are really on a different page of intentions within themselves.

They can't even see what they are trying to do, and think it right to promote eternally killing or eternally torturing Gods children.

In my eyes the wrath of God has came into their hearts and they failed to either stop it or perceive it.

s

Rom 10:1 "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved."

Paul is right, you are wrong.

Mat 13:15 "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

Jesus is right that they closed thier own eyes and ears, and you are wrong.


Eze 33:11 "Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? "


God has no pleasure in the wicked dying and being lost but He wants them to turn (repent) and live (be saved). So it is against God's own nature that He forced those Jews against their own wills to be lost unbelievers.

In Rom 1:20 men will be without excuse. Yet if God forced man to be lost then man will have excuse. God condemns a man for unbelief yet God forced that man to have unbelief making God culpable for the lost. I would not be lost due to my own fault but lost due to God not allowing me to have a saving belief.

The man with one talent called God a 'hard man' Mt 25:24 for he tried to blame God for his own action in burying his talent. According to you the man was justified in blaming God yet God cast him into outer darkness for trying to blame God for something he chose of his own will to do.

 

[Atonement]

Greetings in the Lord Jesus Christ

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting (Eternal KJV) life."

John 11:26 says "and whosoever lives and believes in Me shall never die."

Spiritually speaking of course..

If we are offered eternal life and it can be taken away from us... Then logically, it was NEVER eternal to begin with! So how can something be eternal if it can be taken away?

Is God mocked?
Is God a liar?

I'll sit on the sidelines and watch this play out..

But it is a good question I would think

LJ

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Greetings in the Lord Jesus Christ

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting (Eternal KJV) life."

John 11:26 says "and whosoever lives and believes in Me shall never die."

Spiritually speaking of course..

If we are offered eternal life and it can be taken away from us... Then logically, it was NEVER eternal to begin with! So how can something be eternal if it can be taken away?

Is God mocked?
Is God a liar?

I'll sit on the sidelines and watch this play out..

But it is a good question I would think

LJ

Jn 3:16 in the KJV reads "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

THe verb "believeth" is present tense showing it must be an ongoing, sustained belief and not just a one time or sporadic belief.


The verb "should" is in the subjunctive mood showing that something may or may not happen depending on circumstances...that one may or may not perish depending if he has a continued belief or not. For if one quits believing then he can perish.

In Jn 11:26 "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" the verbs "liveth and "believeth" are present tense showing an on-going, sustained action. If one quits living and believing then he can die. The verb "die" is subjunctive mood meaning he may or may not die depending on whether he continues to live and believe or quits living and believing.

Eternal life is eternal whether I am saved or not. I can be a Christian and be in hope of eternal life as Paul, Titus 1:2, but if I fall away I lose that hope yet eternal life is still eternal.

 

[smaller]

Rom 10:1 "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved."

Paul is right, you are wrong.

Mat 13:15 "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

Paul concludes this matter here, as prior noted multiple times:

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written

It is written and not 'left' to them to chose otherwise.

Jesus is right that they closed thier own eyes and ears, and you are wrong.

If they are blinded in mind by the 'god of this world,' the spirit of slumber, I have no use not to factor that party into the equations NOR to overlook Gods Applications of same upon them.

You are welcome to ignore the obvious at their expense, even though you yourself were 'released' from that same BLINDING POWER by God Himself.

God has no pleasure in the wicked dying and being lost

Quite the contrary. God will take great delight in the destruction of the wicked and made them exactly for that purpose:

Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

but He wants them to turn (repent) and live (be saved). So it is against God's own nature that He forced those Jews against their own wills to be lost unbelievers.

God will save ALL OF ISRAEL exactly as Paul stated in Roman 11:25-30, (and even AGAINST their supposed wills in your eyes,) as it is written.

s

 

[farouk]

Re. John 3.16 and eternal life, how can life be eternal if it is there on Tuesday but not on Wednesday?

The work of Christ by which the believer's eternal life was procured is a complete success, for God's glory!

 

[Atonement]

Jn 3:16 in the KJV reads "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

THe verb "believeth" is present tense showing it must be an ongoing, sustained belief and not just a one time or sporadic belief.


The verb "should" is in the subjunctive mood showing that something may or may not happen depending on circumstances...that one may or may not perish depending if he has a continued belief or not. For if one quits believing then he can perish.

In Jn 11:26 "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" the verbs "liveth and "believeth" are present tense showing an on-going, sustained action. If one quits living and believing then he can die. The verb "die" is subjunctive mood meaning he may or may not die depending on whether he continues to live and believe or quits living and believing.

Eternal life is eternal whether I am saved or not. I can be a Christian and be in hope of eternal life as Paul, Titus 1:2, but if I fall away I lose that hope yet eternal life is still eternal.

Noted...

 

[beardedad]

Jn 3:16 in the KJV reads "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The verb should is in the subjunctive mood showing that something may or may not happen depending on circumstances...that one may or may not perish depending if he has a continued belief or not. For if one quits believing then he can perish.

Jn 3:16 in the NIV reads ""For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,* that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

The NIV ignored the subjunctive mood and tried to make it indicative mood saying one for certain, as a matter of fact will not perish.....even if he quits believing.

We'll I will say that I fill sorry for the ones that don't believe in once saved always saved. We know that we are imperfect and that we all sin and all come short of God’s perfection. I know, that beyond a doubt, that I am saved. I don’t have to be careful of what I do, that the price of my sins have already been paid. Why would we try to make it harder than it is?

 

[Atonement]

Re. John 3.16 and eternal life, how can life be eternal if it is there on Tuesday but not on Wednesday?

The work of Christ by which the believer's eternal life was procured is a complete success, for God's glory!

 

[Atonement]

We'll I will say that I fill sorry for the ones that don't believe in once saved always saved. We know that we are imperfect and that we all sin and all come short of God’s perfection. I know, that beyond a doubt, that I am saved. I don’t have to be careful of what I do, that the price of my sins have already been paid. Why would we try to make it harder than it is?

beardedad -

Blessing to you brother in the Lord Jesus Christ

Where my sins abound.. God's Grace and Mercy much more abounds

The God I serve is greater then what some may believe, The God I serve is abundant in love, mercy, and grace. The God I serve forgets my sins as far as the west is from the east. The God I serve looks at my righteousness as filthy rags and unclean. The ONLY way to His Throne room is through Christ alone!

And if someone looses faith in Christ.. I trust they did not have enough faith to begin with.. They may have had an emotional experience but doubt they had a life changing experience..

 

[beardedad]

beardedad -

Blessing to you brother in the Lord Jesus Christ

Where my sins abound.. God's Grace and Mercy much more abounds

The God I serve is greater then what some may believe, The God I serve is abundant in love, mercy, and grace. The God I serve forgets my sins as far as the west is from the east. The God I serve looks at my righteousness as filthy rags and unclean. The ONLY way to His Throne room is through Christ alone!

And if someone looses faith in Christ.. I trust they did not have enough faith to begin with.. They may have had an emotional experience but doubt they had a life changing experience..

Blessings to you to:

What I can't get is why worry about something that is all ready taken care of. Get out and tell people about Christ and enjoy life, that's what Jesus would want. If you were truley save you should have the confidene to know that.

 

[Atonement]

Blessings to you to:

What I can't get is why worry about something that is all ready taken care of. Get out and tell people about Christ and enjoy life, that's what Jesus would want. If you were truley save you should have the confidene to know that.

 

[farouk]

Atonement: Well, exactly

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Paul concludes this matter here, as prior noted multiple times:

Romans 11:26
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written

It is written and not 'left' to them to chose otherwise.



If they are blinded in mind by the 'god of this world,' the spirit of slumber, I have no use not to factor that party into the equations NOR to overlook Gods Applications of same upon them.

You are welcome to ignore the obvious at their expense, even though you yourself were 'released' from that same BLINDING POWER by God Himself.



Quite the contrary. God will take great delight in the destruction of the wicked and made them exactly for that purpose:

Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.



God will save ALL OF ISRAEL exactly as Paul stated in Roman 11:25-30, (and even AGAINST their supposed wills in your eyes,) as it is written.

s

In Rom 10:1 Paul is talking about fleshly Israel that was lost fro they would not obey by believing and confessing, that is, they would not call upon the name of the Lord. In Rom 11:25 is reference to spiritual Israel, the church.


Psa 58:3 says they go astray and not they are born astray.


Prov 16:4 shows that God has a purpose for everything and not that He created evil or created evil people. The TEV reads Prov 16:4 as "Everything the Lord has made has its destiny; and the destiny of the wicked man is destruction"

One commentator puts it "This proverb means that God has an end, object, or purpose for everything. There is a result for every cause, a reward or punishment for every act. He has ordained a day of trouble or evil for the wicked, just as He has prepared heaven for those who love Him.This doesn't necessarily mean that God created the "wicked" in that state. It means that the wicked have an end--punishment. Even the wicked are subservient to His eternal purposes. They are destined to experience the day of wrath and receive their well-merited punishment."

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

We'll I will say that I fill sorry for the ones that don't believe in once saved always saved. We know that we are imperfect and that we all sin and all come short of God’s perfection. I know, that beyond a doubt, that I am saved. I don’t have to be careful of what I do, that the price of my sins have already been paid. Why would we try to make it harder than it is?

One does not have to believe in eternal security to know if he is saved.

If one continues to live, hear, believe and follow Christ he can know he will be saved. If one quits hearing, believing and following he knows he will be lost.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Re. John 3.16 and eternal life, how can life be eternal if it is there on Tuesday but not on Wednesday?

The work of Christ by which the believer's eternal life was procured is a complete success, for God's glory!

Eternal life is always eternal whether you have hope of it or lose hope of it.

 

[smaller]

In Rom 10:1 Paul is talking about fleshly Israel that was lost fro they would not obey by believing and confessing, that is, they would not call upon the name of the Lord. In Rom 11:25 is reference to spiritual Israel, the church.

In Romans 11:25 Paul specifies even enemies of the Gospel are BELOVED, saved and included same in the 'all of Israel' at least in part to specifically counter the intentions of limited sight.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Psa 58:3 says they go astray and not they are born astray.

3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

It is quite funny to see that plain statements of fact are denied to hold up a persons doctrine. Your alternative writing of that Psalm doesn't even exist except in your own head.

very funny.

Prov 16:4 shows that God has a purpose for everything and not that He created evil or created evil people.

Again, you require a re-write to get there.

4 The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

IT is not unusual for people to not believe their own eyes in the world of theology, and they will instead read 'their imaginations' as a replacement.

The TEV reads Prov 16:4 as "Everything the Lord has made has its destiny; and the destiny of the wicked man is destruction"

Yeah. Your point?

Do you not have a grip on the fact that God created 'all things?' All powers, everything there is was and is CREATED only by God.

There are many 'freewillers' that are in effect POLY-THEISTIC having various 'things' 'powers' 'evil' creating itself APART from God. And yes, that is the essence of Polytheism/ Poly DEISM or 'multiple creators.'

This infection also came upon the early church as a heresy where certain ones tried to say the God of the O.T. was a different God than God in the N.T.

It's a basic throwback to pagan idolatry in such.

s

 

[beardedad]

One does not have to believe in eternal security to know if he is saved.

If one continues to live, hear, believe and follow Christ he can know he will be saved. If one quits hearing, believing and following he knows he will be lost.

I disagree. You either are saved or you are not. You can live, hear, believe and follow Christ and still not be saved. There were many that followed Christ and was not saved.

 

[ezra]

I disagree. You either are saved or you are not. You can live, hear, believe and follow Christ and still not be saved. There were many that followed Christ and was not saved.

we have a sign over the pulpit of the church i pastor ..if your %99 saved your %100 lost

If one continues to live, hear, believe and follow Christ he can know he will be saved. If one quits hearing, believing and following he knows he will be lost.

can you pin point the exact time this takes place ? the very second ? you surely don,t under stand the Love of GOD. those that are saved may/ will falter. but they will make a turn around.. do you think king David died and went to hell?

 

[farouk]

we have a sign over the pulpit of the church i pastor ..if your %99 saved your %100 lost

can you pin point the exact time this takes place ? the very second ? you surely don,t under stand the Love of GOD. those that are saved may/ will falter. but they will make a turn around.. do you think king David died and went to hell?

ezra:

Well, exactly. There needs to be 100% reliance on the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus at the Cross. Any hint of self-reliance or works-reliance alters the whole picture.

Blessings.

 

[2012]

Seems evident to me, if you believe in the book.