Corinth77777
Member
Sometimes when people are emotional they cry.
But pouring out my thanks or my sadness with my heart/spirit
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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The False vs True Gift Of Tongues
- Thread starter reddogs
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But pouring out my thanks or my sadness with my heart/spirit
Corinth77777
Member
My spouse also stopped
Paul talks in this verse about his praying in tongues . 1 Corinthians 14:14
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
And we again are told of praying in tongues in this verse .
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
When I pray in tongues it is smooth and easy there is no "estatic" involved at all .
1 Corinthians 14:14-17 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. Otherwise if you bless in the spirit only, how will the one who fills the place of the uninformed say the “Amen” at your giving of thanks, since he does not know what you are saying? For you are giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not edified.
A quote from you favorite Pastor Macarthur.1 Corinthians 14:14-17
Paul continued to speak sarcastically (cf. 1Co_14:16; 1Co_4:8-10) about counterfeit tongues, so he used the singular "tongue" (see note on 1Co_14:2-39), which refers to the fake gift. He was speaking hypothetically to illustrate the foolishness and pointlessness of speaking in ecstatic gibberish. The speaker could not understand; and what virtue is there in praying to God or praising God without understanding? No one can "Amen" such nonsense.
Corinth77777
Member
The context is order and purpose
And if you notice He does not say He does this.
This is hypothetical to express the lack of purpose as needed to edify.
And as McAuthor suggest from the KJ Version the term unknown tongue (w/o) the "s" is distinguish between tongues with the "S" which is the true gift.
Another thing that is said is his "spirit" prayeth. That is spirit with a lower case " s". It does not say the Holy Spirit Prayeth.
There are many definitions of this..and one is emotion
Spirit- the efficient source of any power, affection, desire, emotion,
He tells them to keep silent in the church.
And never is his reference to outside of the church.
And we cannot say that Paul is not being sarcastic when He says- and let Him speak to Himself and to God.
Because He's talking to carnal Christians which has implications they work from their own desires. Thats why Love is first, because love seeks not its own but the well being of others.
Never does that latter part of the verse say Go home and speak to God in a prayer language unknown to you.
The reason this does not make sense to think this way, even if it could, is because the Gift is to build others up in the faith. Not only that but you would be speaking to God what God gave to you.
Why would someone Speak in a tongue if no one is there that is foreign
.Now with Paul traveling it would profit as He comes along foreigners. That would probably mean when Paul spoke the Gospel from his mind it came out in another language other than His own..
Well if there is no one to interpret in the church
Are you
silent.Because recall the gift is to build up others in the church.
My thought from what scripture says is the true gift you would speak from the mind and the spirit will give utterance in another language.
For look what Paul says:
13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
So if tongues are a sign for the unbeliever...then why is one praying in an unknown tongue at home?
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Corinth77777
Member
This video was really good!
Here is the verse again and I will explain
.When Paul said " my spirt prayeth " he is speaking from his experience of praying in tongues , just as when he said "my understanding is unfruitful " . He knows because this is exactly how it is ! I know too . Paul is saying IF the occasion arises that he does pray in tongues he knows what the results will be ! Practical knowledge .
Here is the verse again
.If silence is maintained in church then the only other place to "speak to himself , and to God ." Is outside the church building walls .
You see sarcasm , I don't , oh well .
My love for my fellow brothers is the reason I said the prayer
.Thank you for bringing this up
. I have thought long and hard about what you have said here .When the Holy Spirit speaks for me He is speaking exactly what I and others I pray for have need of and it is a matter of trusting in God , do we have a complete understanding of how the Godhead works ? No we do not .
Of course .Well if there is no one to interpret in the church
Are you
How much of what the Holy Spirit speaks in tongues when I pray comes from my mind I am really not sure but like I said I do not know what words will be spoken until they leave my mouth .
The reason I am still talking with you in this thread is I have been shown beyond any shadow of doubt that is good to pray in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives the utterance . When you pray in tongues I think you make a connection with God that you may not be able to make otherwise , my opinion mind you but it is based on things that happened when I was praying in tongues .
I am going to go out on a limb here and say Pastor Macarthur does not have the gift of tongues , am I right ?
That being said our opinions and knowledge will differ
.
I did chuckle at this.I am going to go out on a limb here and say Pastor Macarthur does not have the gift of tongues , am I right ?
That being said our opinions and knowledge will differ
I am not saying I am smarter than MacArthur , no not at all but our thoughts will be different .
But I think you understood that
.
Yes of course.I am not saying I am smarter than MacArthur , no not at all but our thoughts will be different .
But I think you understood that
Corinth77777
Member
What prayer? The one where you prayed online lol and then the excuse was the scripture says pray without ceasing ....umHere is the verse again and I will explain
When Paul said " my spirt prayeth " he is speaking from his experience of praying in tongues , just as when he said "my understanding is unfruitful " . He knows because this is exactly how it is ! I know too . Paul is saying IF the occasion arises that he does pray in tongues he knows what the results will be ! Practical knowledge .
Here is the verse again
If silence is maintained in church then the only other place to "speak to himself , and to God ." Is outside the church building walls .
You see sarcasm , I don't , oh well .
My love for my fellow brothers is the reason I said the prayer
You could have prayed without writing it online without ceasing...if that was so.
Thank you for bringing this up
what makes you think it's the Holy Spirit
When scripture says in Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
So you are saying when the Holy Spirit speaks with words that are not uttered you know whats being said when you know not what to pray for??????
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Recall Romans 8
but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
So either the Scripture is Right or the Scripture is right
For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
It says "my spirit" it does not say the Holy Spirit.
And again He did not say He prayed in an umknown tongue.
We know this about Paul in 1 Cor 9:
To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
You said "How much of what the Holy Spirit speaks in tongues when I pray comes from my mind I am really not sure but like I said I do not know what words will be spoken until they leave my mouth ."
But according to Paul He prays with the spirit, which can be defined as emotions but look also He prays with understanding also.
That's not this Pentecostal's experience in this video:
Do you think you are a Christian or do you know you are a Christian ? That is how it works .
The Holy Spirit is speaking words that are uttered .
Amen !
Amen ! Has this happened to you ?
Can you tell me what are words # 7 and #8 are in the verse you just quoted ?
All of my prayers are not in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives the utterance ! ! The way it goes is I pray with understanding first and then I pray in tongues .
Six to twelve hours of praying in tongues , did you hear him say that !
If I pray for 30 minutes total that is a long prayer session . God knows what we have need of even before we ask .
Corinth77777 , what it your prayer time alone with God like ?
Corinth77777
Member
What Im showing is what you are saying seems to go against scripture.
It seems you did not answer my questions . Can you ?
Corinth77777
Member
If seems you did not answer mine first, can you? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
you say one thing
And
Scripture says another.
You try to use your experience to explain scripture.
When the scripture should explain your experience.
Example the scripture says The Holy Spirit prays with groanings that cannot be uttered.
>Yet you say the Holy spirit utters your prayer
Paul says He prays with His spirit and understanding
> you say you do not know but partly until it comes out.
Paul says keep silent and talk to yourself and to God
> you interpret go home and pray in tongues
When scripture Never says that..no where.
Scripture says tongues are a sign for the unbeliever
> you say you going to go home and make it about you who claims to be a believer
Scripture says the gift is to edify others in the body.
You say.........
And the List goes on.
You say what the scripture says to you and then I say what the scripture says to me .
I have seen that happen a LOT on this forum
.I can not make you understand , that is why I said the prayer .
Have I denied this ? Has this ever happened to you ? That is not a hard question , but I got no answer
.Yes !
As I do too ! !
Huh ? Give me the quote , please .
Exactly !
talk to yourself and to God . Where do you talk to God ?
Do you believe that ? Have you ever seen that happen in person ?
Wow
, it got to this point did it . Have you ever read TOS 1.4 ? Here is the link https://christianforums.net/pages/TOS/Yes it does ! Have I denied this ?
Corinth77777
Member
There is a true gift that is spoken of in acts.
People speak in a real language other than their own that Holy Spirit gives them utterance.
And then there is what MacArthur calls the false gift And I've never saw any one interpret.
But churches call this their prayer language.
If you can't interpret and there is no one to interpret then.........then you have your answer.
People speak in a real language other than their own that Holy Spirit gives them utterance.
And then there is what MacArthur calls the false gift And I've never saw any one interpret.
But churches call this their prayer language.
If you can't interpret and there is no one to interpret then.........then you have your answer.