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The Fate of Unbelieving Children

What happens to unbelieving children who die young?

  • They go to hell, because salvation is only through Christ and they are born with original sin.

    Votes: 3 17.6%

  • God, a Just Judge has mercy on their ignorance.

    Votes: 10 58.8%

  • They are given a second chance at the resurrection, since salvation is only through Christ.

    Votes: 4 23.5%

  • They cease to exist.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Everyone will eventually be saved, children included.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    17
Nobody has answered my question.

If you believe that God would send an infant to hell, do they also have the same chance to receive salvation just as you and I do? If not are all infants automatically sent to hell because they can't comprehend enough to receive salvation?
 
turnorburn said:
Chapter and verse please..where is the chapter where are the verses?

tob
Click to expand...
Now you're just being ridiculous.

Now, let's go over the idea of accountability and where it is found in Scriptures.

The idea of accountability is simply the quality or state of being accountable, which is to be held responsible for your actions, and having to give an account or reason for such behavior.

As reasonable adults, we don't hold an infant or small child accountable the same way we do an adult or teenager, and the Bible alludes to this fact a couple occasions.

For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted. Isaiah 7:16 (ESV)

There is a period of time when a child simply does not know how to refuse evil and choosing good. Therefore, he is not able to provide a reason or explanation for his actions that would make him guilty of any crime.

And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who today have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. Deuteronomy 1:39 (ESV)

Notice that this is the same depiction of Adam and Eve in the garden prior to the fall, it is a description of innocence, they don't have any knowledge of good or evil. Therefore, they are innocent as they cannot distinguish the two and only act ignorantly.

The particular age is known to God and I doubt it would be the same for every child, but there is an age of innocence for all children where they don't have the capacity to do otherwise and act on impulse and have no knowledge of right and wrong.

Now the concept of the Justice of God.

Far be it from you to do such a thing, to put the righteous to death with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?” Genesis 18:25 (ESV)

Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent-- the LORD detests them both. Proverbs 17:15 (NIV)

The Lord is JUST in all his judgments, and he will not condemn the innocent children for he will do what is right.

How is the character of God revealed in Christ towards children?

But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God." Luke 18:16 (ESV)
Click to expand...
 
Doulos Iesou said:
You think for a second that God would eternally punish an infant? I'm sorry, but this is one of the easier questions one has to face as a believer.
Click to expand...
I will kindly ask that you refrain from misquoting other posters, in this case me.

It doesn't require you to lie, it simply requires you to think and turn to the Scripture and the character of God revealed in Christ Jesus.
Click to expand...
If I presume to tell someone what God will do or not do when God has not revealed it to me, then I am lying. I will ask again. Where in scripture does it say that infants are saved? So you don't misunderstand and put words in my mouth again...I am not saying they are not saved but I am asking you to provide the scripture to support your claim that they are.

He will do what is JUST, he will not condemn the innocent for he detests such a thing.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that you know what is JUST? Most of the human race or dare I say all of the human race differs from God about what is just.
 
WIP said:
I will kindly ask that you refrain from misquoting other posters, in this case me.
Click to expand...
I misquoted nothing, I just pointed out the fact that you haven't disavowed that position, which means it is an option for you.

To misquote you would be like this, "then why are you saying, 'God punishes infants.'" You never said that, but you haven't DENIED that this is the case, therefore I called you out on it.

By not denying the negative, you leave it as a possibility which is terrible.

If I presume to tell someone what God will do or not do when God has not revealed it to me, then I am lying.
Click to expand...
He has revealed it.

I will ask again. Where in scripture does it say that infants are saved?
Click to expand...
This is the wrong question. Why do the innocent need saving? They don't, God doesn't hold them accountable for their actions.

Read here:
Now, let's go over the idea of accountability and where it is found in Scriptures.

The idea of accountability is simply the quality or state of being accountable, which is to be held responsible for your actions, and having to give an account or reason for such behavior.

As reasonable adults, we don't hold an infant or small child accountable the same way we do an adult or teenager, and the Bible alludes to this fact a couple occasions.

For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted. Isaiah 7:16 (ESV)

There is a period of time when a child simply does not know how to refuse evil and choosing good. Therefore, he is not able to provide a reason or explanation for his actions that would make him guilty of any crime.

And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who today have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. Deuteronomy 1:39 (ESV)

Notice that this is the same depiction of Adam and Eve in the garden prior to the fall, it is a description of innocence, they don't have any knowledge of good or evil. Therefore, they are innocent as they cannot distinguish the two and only act ignorantly.

The particular age is known to God and I doubt it would be the same for every child, but there is an age of innocence for all children where they don't have the capacity to do otherwise and act on impulse and have no knowledge of right and wrong.

Now the concept of the Justice of God.

Far be it from you to do such a thing, to put the righteous to death with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?” Genesis 18:25 (ESV)

Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent-- the LORD detests them both. Proverbs 17:15 (NIV)

The Lord is JUST in all his judgments, and he will not condemn the innocent children for he will do what is right.

How is the character of God revealed in Christ towards children?

But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God." Luke 18:16 (ESV)
Click to expand...

So you don't misunderstand and put words in my mouth again
Click to expand...
Put words into your mouth? I think you're the one who misunderstood my statement, as I was calling out the fact that you haven't denied it.

I am not saying they are not saved but I am asking you to provide the scripture to support your claim that they are.
Click to expand...
I've done so.

Are you saying that you know what is JUST? Most of the human race or dare I say all of the human race differs from God about what is just.
Click to expand...
God knows what is Just, and I appealed to his standard for my argument. He will not condemn the innocent as he detests that.

Why don't you detest that?
 
WIP said:
I will kindly ask that you refrain from misquoting other posters, in this case me.


If I presume to tell someone what God will do or not do when God has not revealed it to me, then I am lying. I will ask again. Where in scripture does it say that infants are saved? So you don't misunderstand and put words in my mouth again...I am not saying they are not saved but I am asking you to provide the scripture to support your claim that they are.


Are you saying that you know what is JUST? Most of the human race or dare I say all of the human race differs from God about what is just.
Click to expand...

The verse that makes me confident that babies are not condemned this the one where King David after his son died says that he will see him again but not in this life.
 
Doulos Iesou said:
I misquoted nothing, I just pointed out the fact that you haven't disavowed that position, which means it is an option for you.

To misquote you would be like this, "then why are you saying, 'God punishes infants.'" You never said that, but you haven't DENIED that this is the case, therefore I called you out on it.

By not denying the negative, you leave it as a possibility which is terrible.


He has revealed it.


This is the wrong question. Why do the innocent need saving? They don't, God doesn't hold them accountable for their actions.

Read here:



Put words into your mouth? I think you're the one who misunderstood my statement, as I was calling out the fact that you haven't denied it.


I've done so.


God knows what is Just, and I appealed to his standard for my argument. He will not condemn the innocent as he detests that.

Why don't you detest that?
Click to expand...
I think I will respectfully bow out of this discussion as you insist on misrepresenting what I have written.
 
WIP said:
I think I will respectfully bow out of this discussion as you insist on misrepresenting what I have written.
Click to expand...
Have I misrepresented the fact that you refuse to deny that infants are eternally condemned?

If I actually misrepresented you then why am I not punished per the ToS?
 
I did not vote for who knows for sure.

Can one sin when one has no knowledge of sin? What is the proper age of accountability? Is the child sanctified by the believing parents? Does God find guilt in a child? How can God judge sin if sin is not found?

My answer is that only God knows the intents of the heart even in that of a newborn as all of us are a creation of God made in His image and God breathed life into us making us a living soul.

Here dust + breath from God = a living soul. When the flesh dies physically it returns back to the dust of the ground and our soul is preserved with God for final judgment.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Genesis 3:19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
 
Well Jeff to answer your question this thread has been posted across the internet over the years at least 100 times that i know of it starts fights causes dissension and ends up in the dead threads receptacle.. the answer is there in black and white but people choose to follow their preconceived notions.. :yes

tob
 
turnorburn said:
Well Jeff to answer your question this thread has been posted across the internet over the years at least 100 times that i know of it starts fights causes dissension and ends up in the dead threads receptacle.. the answer is there in black and white but people choose to follow their preconceived notions.. :yes

tob
Click to expand...
I demonstrated to you where these notions were conceived of.

They came from the Scriptures, care to address them?

Now, let's go over the idea of accountability and where it is found in Scriptures.

The idea of accountability is simply the quality or state of being accountable, which is to be held responsible for your actions, and having to give an account or reason for such behavior.

As reasonable adults, we don't hold an infant or small child accountable the same way we do an adult or teenager, and the Bible alludes to this fact a couple occasions.

For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted. Isaiah 7:16 (ESV)

There is a period of time when a child simply does not know how to refuse evil and choosing good. Therefore, he is not able to provide a reason or explanation for his actions that would make him guilty of any crime.

And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who today have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. Deuteronomy 1:39 (ESV)

Notice that this is the same depiction of Adam and Eve in the garden prior to the fall, it is a description of innocence, they don't have any knowledge of good or evil. Therefore, they are innocent as they cannot distinguish the two and only act ignorantly.

The particular age is known to God and I doubt it would be the same for every child, but there is an age of innocence for all children where they don't have the capacity to do otherwise and act on impulse and have no knowledge of right and wrong.

Now the concept of the Justice of God.

Far be it from you to do such a thing, to put the righteous to death with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?” Genesis 18:25 (ESV)

Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent-- the LORD detests them both. Proverbs 17:15 (NIV)

The Lord is JUST in all his judgments, and he will not condemn the innocent children for he will do what is right.

How is the character of God revealed in Christ towards children?

But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God." Luke 18:16 (ESV)
Click to expand...
 
for_his_glory said:
I did not vote for who knows for sure.

Can one sin when one has no knowledge of sin?
Click to expand...
Wrong question.

Can a person with no knowledge of right and wrong and no ability to do otherwise be held accountable for their actions?

Define accountable and you have your answer.

What is the proper age of accountability?
Click to expand...
When they understand right from wrong and have the ability to choose to do good instead of evil.

Is the child sanctified by the believing parents?
Click to expand...
This would be the opinion of those who think only believers children are redeemed, this would not be my position.

Does God find guilt in a child?
Click to expand...
Does God find the innocent guilty?

According to Proverbs 17:15 he detests that.

How can God judge sin if sin is not found?
Click to expand...
Surely the judge of all the earth will do what is JUST.

My answer is that only God knows the intents of the heart even in that of a newborn as all of us are a creation of God made in His image and God breathed life into us making us a living soul.
Click to expand...
And you suppose some infants have wicked intentions and others do not, and they could be held accountable for those intentions?

Here dust + breath from God = a living soul. When the flesh dies physically it returns back to the dust of the ground and our soul is preserved with God for final judgment.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Genesis 3:19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Click to expand...
That's a bad translation, the word here should be translated "breath."
 
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