n2thelight
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Tired of all the political strife and infighting?
Find out how Christians are supposed to act in the following study
https://christianforums.net/threads/charismatic-bible-studies-1-peter-2-11-17.109823/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The Gap Theory, What Do you Believe ?
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
H
Hitch
Guest
Former Christian
Member
Lewis W
Just like all contemporary ideas of Creation in Christianity, it is an idea based on interpretation. To see a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 makes that pretty obvious. It was the common idea of Creation believed by Protestants in the last century. It was believed by the Pastor of the original Protestant Church that I belonged to. Today, some form of Theistic Evolution is commonly believed. The idea put forth by those like Ken Ham is losing ground. But there are interesting up and coming ideas concerning creation that may become the idea of the future. Like the idea of Progressive Creationism offered by Hugh Ross and the idea offered by the Jewish scientist Gerald Schroeder.
FC
Just like all contemporary ideas of Creation in Christianity, it is an idea based on interpretation. To see a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 makes that pretty obvious. It was the common idea of Creation believed by Protestants in the last century. It was believed by the Pastor of the original Protestant Church that I belonged to. Today, some form of Theistic Evolution is commonly believed. The idea put forth by those like Ken Ham is losing ground. But there are interesting up and coming ideas concerning creation that may become the idea of the future. Like the idea of Progressive Creationism offered by Hugh Ross and the idea offered by the Jewish scientist Gerald Schroeder.
FC
jasoncran
Member
n2thelight why arent you a mormon? that is what mormon teach. man was in heaven first then came to earth. heaven nor hell were ever meant for man. hell came to be for the demons and heaven is temporary for man
matthew 5:5 the meek shall inherit the earth.
no creationism isnt losing ground at all.
soon by your thinking and its not real christianity when this happens. the cross will be considered a literary device and aslo no man knows the way to god. there are whole demonotions that state this. mainly methodists have started that junk.
matthew 5:5 the meek shall inherit the earth.
no creationism isnt losing ground at all.
soon by your thinking and its not real christianity when this happens. the cross will be considered a literary device and aslo no man knows the way to god. there are whole demonotions that state this. mainly methodists have started that junk.
Lewis
Member
This is a learning site, has always been and will always be. We talk about subjects here that can be debated or proved, now many Christians hold to the Gap theory, and if you all know me, I am known to post controversial subjects. My thing how will you learn if this stuff is not discussed ? That's what's wrong with many Christians today they will not talk about certain things and the people remain ignorant.
In this case there is nothing to learn from this false doctrine, not to mention we are to have nothing to do with false teachings.
Sinthesis
Member
I don't believe the gap theory belongs within the category of Christian doctrine or theology.
I'm sure it's seductive; as if finding out scripture could be abused in such a way that proved Narnia or MiddleEarth were real, but they aren't real either.
Former Christian
Member
Lewis W
You said, “This is a learning site, has always been and will always be. We talk about subjects here that can be debated or proved, now many Christians hold to the Gap theory, and if you all know me, I am known to post controversial subjects. My thing how will you learn if this stuff is not discussed ? That's what's wrong with many Christians today they will not talk about certain things and the people remain ignorant.”
There you go!
And as you say, this is posted right where everyone can see it, “Discuss topics related to defending or proving the truth of Christian doctrines and theology.”
That’s what I thought this Forum was all about. It’s a shame that some have chosen to disagree. I have a bad name on this forum because some have chosen to disagree. I hope my agreement with you is not detrimental.
I would like to add in keeping with this thread, that a lot of well known and well meaning Christians have believed in the Gap Theory. And there is more too it then just saying it is a false doctrine that no one can learn from. Contrasting this theory with what the Bible really says is a learning experience in itself. And not everything that this theory teaches is false. As with any perspective, it has the potential of bringing out things that wouldn't ordinarily be noticed.
FC
You said, “This is a learning site, has always been and will always be. We talk about subjects here that can be debated or proved, now many Christians hold to the Gap theory, and if you all know me, I am known to post controversial subjects. My thing how will you learn if this stuff is not discussed ? That's what's wrong with many Christians today they will not talk about certain things and the people remain ignorant.”
There you go!
And as you say, this is posted right where everyone can see it, “Discuss topics related to defending or proving the truth of Christian doctrines and theology.”
That’s what I thought this Forum was all about. It’s a shame that some have chosen to disagree. I have a bad name on this forum because some have chosen to disagree. I hope my agreement with you is not detrimental.
I would like to add in keeping with this thread, that a lot of well known and well meaning Christians have believed in the Gap Theory. And there is more too it then just saying it is a false doctrine that no one can learn from. Contrasting this theory with what the Bible really says is a learning experience in itself. And not everything that this theory teaches is false. As with any perspective, it has the potential of bringing out things that wouldn't ordinarily be noticed.
FC
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cyberjosh
Member
Hi Pard. I thought this might be interesting for you and everyone else to reference.
I actually happen to have recently been reading through a Christian book about the Names of God (especially as used in Genesis) that was written in the 1800s by an English clergyman who referenced the "gap theory" idea, though not called that, in passing purely for its theological/interpretive value with absolutely no mention or reference to a scientific application or harmonization at all. The theological application referenced was (and this person, humbly IMO, did - for the record - prefix this interpretation by saying "if I mistake not...") to a previous "kingdom of Satan" and also (his main point) that God's character is revealed in the openning verses of Genesis in that He will work even on a dark and ruined (tohu va'bohu) creation [his words], thus the author was applying God working on the formless and void earth as a spiritual illustration of God's grace and how he works on people today.
The Church Fathers were also known to interpret spiritual truths from the historical books in the OT, and that author did elsewhere specifically mention that the early Church Fathers regarded the account of Adam being put into a deep sleep (so that God could make Eve) was seen also as a type of Christ dying for us - that's the way their interpretations/hermeneutics worked back then, whether we agree with them today or not. In fact if you hadn't heard of the gap theory (as it stands today) before you read that in the book, you might not even associate it with that he was saying. But he did reference a "gap" in time between verses one and two. I think that a theological interpetation predated the "scientific harmonization" interpretation.
There is actually a book that you can read online for free called "Without Form and Void" by Arthur Custance where he in the first chapter gives a survey of quotes and interpretations of a gap existing between verses one and two of Genesis 1 by writers antedating the 18th century (when the scientific aspect of the Gap Theory was established) for strictly theological and exegetical reasons.
Read this excerpt from Chapter 1 of his book entitled "A Long-Held View":
I am merely noting this because I know, from reading some works from the 19th and 18th century, that I've seen this idea used in contexts other than for scientific harmonization. And we have to admit that, even if sometimes going overboard, that people in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries really read their Bibles for all they were worth and drew many deep doctrines out of Scripture from observing it and studying it.
God Bless,
~Josh
I actually happen to have recently been reading through a Christian book about the Names of God (especially as used in Genesis) that was written in the 1800s by an English clergyman who referenced the "gap theory" idea, though not called that, in passing purely for its theological/interpretive value with absolutely no mention or reference to a scientific application or harmonization at all. The theological application referenced was (and this person, humbly IMO, did - for the record - prefix this interpretation by saying "if I mistake not...") to a previous "kingdom of Satan" and also (his main point) that God's character is revealed in the openning verses of Genesis in that He will work even on a dark and ruined (tohu va'bohu) creation [his words], thus the author was applying God working on the formless and void earth as a spiritual illustration of God's grace and how he works on people today.
The Church Fathers were also known to interpret spiritual truths from the historical books in the OT, and that author did elsewhere specifically mention that the early Church Fathers regarded the account of Adam being put into a deep sleep (so that God could make Eve) was seen also as a type of Christ dying for us - that's the way their interpretations/hermeneutics worked back then, whether we agree with them today or not. In fact if you hadn't heard of the gap theory (as it stands today) before you read that in the book, you might not even associate it with that he was saying. But he did reference a "gap" in time between verses one and two. I think that a theological interpetation predated the "scientific harmonization" interpretation.
There is actually a book that you can read online for free called "Without Form and Void" by Arthur Custance where he in the first chapter gives a survey of quotes and interpretations of a gap existing between verses one and two of Genesis 1 by writers antedating the 18th century (when the scientific aspect of the Gap Theory was established) for strictly theological and exegetical reasons.
Read this excerpt from Chapter 1 of his book entitled "A Long-Held View":
Arthur Custance said:
I am merely noting this because I know, from reading some works from the 19th and 18th century, that I've seen this idea used in contexts other than for scientific harmonization. And we have to admit that, even if sometimes going overboard, that people in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries really read their Bibles for all they were worth and drew many deep doctrines out of Scripture from observing it and studying it.
God Bless,
~Josh
n2thelight
Member
What may I ask do you think was going on before there were demons and such,I mean even satan was good.....
Ezekiel 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Evil has not always exsisted...As for me being Morman,that won't work for me,Im a Christian who just happen to see what most can't....
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And just why is it important that people know about a false doctrine? What if someone ends up believing it? If they hear about it somewhere then they are free to come here and ask, and then it can be discussed and it can be shown to be false, but we should not go about bringing up false doctrine for the sake of discussion.
This is not at all biblical.n2thelight said:
One can't see what isn't there. Why do you presume that something had to be "going on"?n2thelight said:
n2thelight
Member
"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old [
], and the earth standing
[
] out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed [
] with water,
perished [
] : But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
(2 Pet 3:5-7 KJV)
"And the earth was without form [
], and void [
]; and darkness [
] was upon the face of the deep [
]. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
(Genesis 1:2 KJV)
2 Peter 3:5-7 is NOT a reference to Noah's flood. There are only two (2) places in the entire Bible where the Earth is flooded by water. One, of course, is at the time of Noah's flood (Genesis 7). The other is at Genesis 1:2 where it speaks about the condition of the Earth at the time just before God said, "Let there be light." Now, if 2 Peter 3:5-7 is not a cross-reference to Noah's flood, then it MUST be a cross-reference to Genesis 1:2 (there is no other alternative - simple logic).
And if 2 Peter 3:5-7 is a cross-reference to Genesis 1:2, then the Holy Spirit is calling your attention to something very significant that millions of 'Young Earth' Creationists are blindly overlooking. Specifically, that a glorious ancient world that God created in the distant past (Genesis 1:1), had long since been utterly destroyed, plunged into deep darkness, and overflowed by a raging flood of great waters on a universal scale at the time of Genesis 1:2.
The seven-days of Genesis, which follow, chronicle God's methodology of restoring the heavens and Earth and repopulating the world with living creatures, including modern man. There is a time gap between the first two verses of the Bible. It is a time gap that is obscurely declared, but not greatly detailed in the book of Genesis. It is the very first 'mystery' found in the Bible.
Knowing that there is a time gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, and WHY there is a time gap, will open more perfect understanding of what the Creation narrative is actually saying, and begin to cut a clear path through the confusion of conflicting theories and interpretations that have occupied the Creation/Science debate.
], and the earth standing[
] out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed [] with water, perished [
] : But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."(2 Pet 3:5-7 KJV)
"And the earth was without form [
], and void []; and darkness [] was upon the face of the deep []. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."(Genesis 1:2 KJV)
2 Peter 3:5-7 is NOT a reference to Noah's flood. There are only two (2) places in the entire Bible where the Earth is flooded by water. One, of course, is at the time of Noah's flood (Genesis 7). The other is at Genesis 1:2 where it speaks about the condition of the Earth at the time just before God said, "Let there be light." Now, if 2 Peter 3:5-7 is not a cross-reference to Noah's flood, then it MUST be a cross-reference to Genesis 1:2 (there is no other alternative - simple logic).
And if 2 Peter 3:5-7 is a cross-reference to Genesis 1:2, then the Holy Spirit is calling your attention to something very significant that millions of 'Young Earth' Creationists are blindly overlooking. Specifically, that a glorious ancient world that God created in the distant past (Genesis 1:1), had long since been utterly destroyed, plunged into deep darkness, and overflowed by a raging flood of great waters on a universal scale at the time of Genesis 1:2.
The seven-days of Genesis, which follow, chronicle God's methodology of restoring the heavens and Earth and repopulating the world with living creatures, including modern man. There is a time gap between the first two verses of the Bible. It is a time gap that is obscurely declared, but not greatly detailed in the book of Genesis. It is the very first 'mystery' found in the Bible.
Knowing that there is a time gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, and WHY there is a time gap, will open more perfect understanding of what the Creation narrative is actually saying, and begin to cut a clear path through the confusion of conflicting theories and interpretations that have occupied the Creation/Science debate.
2Pe 3:4 They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."
2Pe 3:5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,
2Pe 3:6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
2Pe 3:7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. (ESV)
Notice the progression: 1) Creation reference to Gen 1:2; 2) God's judgment by flood during the times of Noah; 3) Future and final judgment by fire. There is no reason to believe otherwise unless one reads preconceived ideas into the text of 2 Peter 3:6.
n2thelight
Member
Job 38
1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Who are the morning stars and the sons of God in verse 7?
God hated Esau even while he was in his mother's womb.,Why?
Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
How did God know thee?Please don't say because He knows all things.......
1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Who are the morning stars and the sons of God in verse 7?
God hated Esau even while he was in his mother's womb.,Why?
Jeremiah 1:5
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
How did God know thee?Please don't say because He knows all things.......
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