Bible Study The Godship of Jesus the Christ...

[reba]

G2532
καί
kai
kahee
Apparently a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so, then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words: - and, also, both, but, even, for, if, indeed, likewise, moreover, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yea, yet.

:​

seem the use of the word ' and ' is not a big deal...

Seems to me who ever we are we use the differences in language to fit OUR dogma in the way we choose.. discount it here apply it there...

 

[Roro1972]

Yes. Someone needs to define "divine".

This from Merriam-Webster's online dictionary:

1. 1 a : of, relating to, or proceeding directly from God or a god <divine love> b : being a deity <the divine Savior> c : directed to a deity <divine worship>
   
   
2. 2 a : supremely good : superb <the pie was divine> b : heavenly, godlike

I accept all these definitions except 1b.

Which of those definitions am I asked to believe?


Yeshua is more than "just a man". He was conceived miraculously, lived a sinless life and was given all authority and power by his Father YHWH. He is more than just a "lord" like Abraham since he is greater than Abraham. YHWH made him to be our "Lord", the second most powerful "Lord" in the universe (his Father YHWH being the most powerful "Lord").


I do not deny Yeshua as "Lord". The incorrect belief that bearing the title "Lord" makes Jesus "God" is the problem.

what does this say
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 

[jocor]

Jesus is the Lord God, who became flesh, who became the man Jesus Christ.

I understand this is your belief.

How can anyone be anything other than the Lord God, and sit on the throne of the Lord God?

He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: Luke 1:32​

It is throne of David that the "Lord God" is giving to His Son.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, 1 Timothy 3:16

The reading of the earliest and best manuscripts is not “God” but rather “he who.” Almost all the modern versions have the verse as “the mystery of godliness is great, which was manifest in the flesh,” or some close equivalent. Here is a note from the Pulpit Commentary (Trinitarians):

Having thus exalted the "mystery of godliness," St. Paul goes on to expound it. He who (ὅς). This is generally adopted now as the true reading, instead of Θεός (ΟΣ, instead of ΘΣ). Bishop Ellicott satisfied himself, by most careful personal examination, that the original reading of the Cod. Alex. was ΟΣ, and that it had been altered by a later hand to ΘΣ. The Cod. Sinait certainly has ὅς, and to this all the older versions agree. The Vulgate has quod, agreeing with sacramentum and representing the Greek ὁ Accepting this, then, as the true reading, we proceed to explain it.
​

IOW, the true reading is, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory."

looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13

Many other versions, such as the Revised Version, American Standard Version, NAS, Moffatt, RSV, NRSV, Douay, New American Bible, NEB, etc., translate the verse very differently. The NASB reads;

“…looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.”​

In the version you quoted, we await the “glorious appearing” of God, while in the NASB and other versions we await the “appearing of the glory” of God our Savior (this is a use of “Savior” where the word is applied in the context to God, not Christ. See the note on Luke 1:47), i.e., we are looking for the “glory” of God, which is stated clearly as being “Jesus Christ.” Of course, the glory will come at the appearing, but Scripture says clearly that both the glory of the Son and the glory of the Father will appear (Luke 9:26). God’s Word also teaches that when Christ comes, he will come with his Father’s glory: “For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory” (Matt. 16:27).

 

[jocor]

I don't see any reason to examine your verses in light of plain verses like what JLB posted and these...

28“Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." (Acts 20:28 NASB)

This is an ambiguous verse that requires much textual criticism. There are two variants in the manuscripts. Some mss. read "church of the Lord" instead of "church of God". I'll assume, for arguments sake, that "God" is correct.

The other variant refers to the phrase, "his own blood". The American Bible Society and the Institute For New Testament Research in Germany (which produces the Nestle-Aland Greek text) agree that the manuscript evidence supports the reading tou haimatios tou idiou, literally, the blood of His own (Son), and not idiou haimatios, “his own blood.” YHWH paid for our salvation with the blood of His own Son.

The text note at the bottom of the Trinitarian NIV Study Bible gets the meaning of the verse correct: “his own blood. Lit. ‘the blood of his own one,’ a term of endearment (such as ‘his own dear one’) referring to His own Son.”

Three other points; 1) God does not have blood. He is a Spirit. 2) We have a similar phrase in English. When referring to a son, a father might say, "He is my own flesh and blood". 3) Where it says, "he purchased", the word "he" can refer to either God or Yeshua depending on which antecedent is used.

"27Then He said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”" (John 20:27-28 NASB)

We know Thomas did not speak English, so he didn't say "God". If he spoke Hebrew, then he most likely said "elohim" which is not a problem. Even Yeshua pointed out that the mighty men of Israel are "elohim" (John 10:34-35 where he is quoting Psalm 82:6). The same would be true if Thomas was speaking Greek. Psalm 82:6 in the Septuagint uses "theos".

 

[JLB]

It is throne of David that the "Lord God" is giving to His Son.

That's great. The Lord God made a promise to David. A man will surely fulfill that promise.

However, the Man who is the King that fulfills that promise, is the King of Israel, The King of the Jews, and He is the Lord of hosts.

He is seated at the right hand of God His Father, and will return with all His saints. His feet will stand on the mount of Olives.

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.
Zechariah 14:16-17

The Lord of host's, the King of kings and the Lord of lords, the King of Israel, the Savior, The Lord God.

Jesus is Lord.
Jesus is Savior.
Jesus is King over all the earth.

looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2:13


JLB

 

[jocor]

Phill 2: 5
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.
Jlb, Im sure you agree with this; I wonder does anyone else

I don't and neither do many other translations. The NASB, for example, reads, "who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped". The NIV reads, "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;"

What does verse 5 mean? Does it mean that we should have the same mind as Messiah Yeshua before or after his earthly birth? Paul is telling the Philippians to have the same mind as Messiah Yeshua . If Yeshua pre-existed, he certainly did not carry the name "Messiah Yeshua" or "Christ Jesus". That name can only be applied to the historical Yeshua, not the being who supposedly pre-existed as "the Word." Yeshua did not officially become "the Anointed" or "the Messiah" until he was baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 10:38).

As a child, Yeshua "waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of Yahweh was upon him" (Luke 2:40). Even at that time Yeshua knew who he was, knew who his Father was (Luke 2:49), and knew what he had to do. By the time of his baptism he was so filled with wisdom, knowledge, Spirit, and power that Paul says he was "in the form (or likeness) of God." It does not say he "was God." Yet, Yeshua did not allow that power and wisdom to corrupt him. Nor did he, for one moment, consider himself Yahweh's equal. He knew his Father was greater than himself (John 10:29; 13:16; 14:28).

Yeshua did not strip himself of any pre-existent power or glory. He simply humbled himself and made himself of no reputation even though he was far more knowledgeable and powerful than any of his contemporaries. Instead of glorifying himself and expecting others to serve him, he chose to become a servant. He became like most men, common and unassuming as compared to the politically powerful and famous.

In addition to not exalting himself in the eyes of man, he further humbled himself by becoming totally obedient to the laws and will of His Father Yahweh. As a reward for his obedience, Yahweh has highly exalted him.

 

[jocor]

He became a little lower than the angels.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. Hebrews 2:9

If it says He was made a little lower than the angels, then surely He was higher than the angels as God.

Psalm 8, which Heb 2:9 quotes, has a dual meaning. It applies to all men in a lesser sense and Yeshua in the greater sense. Yet, men did not first exist as higher beings than angels (Gods).

But to the Son He says:

“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
Hebrews 1:8-9

The word "God" (elohim) is properly applied to Yeshua in Heb.1:8-9. "God" is a translation of the Greek word "theos" which was also used in reference to Satan (2 Cor.4:4) and Herod (Acts 12:22). It has the same meaning as the Hebrew word "elohim" and can be applied to men, angels, and the Almighty. Psalm 82:6 applies it to any child of the Most High; "I have said, Ye are gods [elohim]; and all of you are children of the most High." It simply means "a mighty one among his people." It is not wrong to call Yeshua an elohim or theos. The problem lies in believing he is the one true "God," Yahweh Almighty. Yeshua made it clear that he was not, in Jn.17:3; "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee [Yahweh] the only true God, and Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiah, whom thou hast sent." The Apostle Paul declared the same thing in 1 Cor.8:6; "But to us there is but one God, the Father [Yahweh], of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiah), by whom are all things, and we by him."

Replacing "God" with "elohim" helps to understand the meaning:

“Your throne, O elohim, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore elohim, your Elohim, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

 

[jocor]

G2532
καί
kai
kahee
Apparently a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force; and, also, even, so, then, too, etc.; often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words: - and, also, both, but, even, for, if, indeed, likewise, moreover, or, so, that, then, therefore, when, yea, yet.

:​

seem the use of the word ' and ' is not a big deal...

Seems to me who ever we are we use the differences in language to fit OUR dogma in the way we choose.. discount it here apply it there...

Sorry, but I don't know what verse or post you are referring to. I'm not even sure you are addressing me.

 

[reba]

I have dropped this conversation..

 

[jocor]

what does this say
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The problem lies in the interpretation. I do not read the Son into the text whereas most Christians do. To me, the logos (word) is a thing, not a person. YHWH used His logos to create everything. He spoke creation into existence.

 

[jocor]

That's great. The Lord God made a promise to David. A man will surely fulfill that promise.

However, the Man who is the King that fulfills that promise, is the King of Israel, The King of the Jews, and He is the Lord of hosts.

He is seated at the right hand of God His Father, and will return with all His saints. His feet will stand on the mount of Olives.

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain.
Zechariah 14:16-17

Yeshua is not the only King. Verse 16 refers to his Father YHWH.

 

[Malachi]

You, sir, are a liar and a deceiver. Yes, I deny him as YHWH, but I do NOT deny him as my "Lord".

One cannot call Jesus "Lord" unless one believes that He is indeed God (YHWH Elohim). Please note carefully (John 19:26-29):

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[JLB]

Psalm 8, which Heb 2:9 quotes, has a dual meaning. It applies to all men in a lesser sense and Yeshua in the greater sense. Yet, men did not first exist as higher beings than angels (Gods).

Since the writer of the book of Hebrews refers directly to Jesus, as being made a little lower than the angels, it is to him that I make reference.

The word "God" (elohim) is properly applied to Yeshua in Heb.1:8-9. "God" is a translation of the Greek word "theos" which was also used in reference to Satan (2 Cor.4:4) and Herod (Acts 12:22). It has the same meaning as the Hebrew word "elohim" and can be applied to men, angels, and the Almighty. Psalm 82:6 applies it to any child of the Most High; "I have said, Ye are gods [elohim]; and all of you are children of the most High." It simply means "a mighty one among his people." It is not wrong to call Yeshua an elohim or theos. The problem lies in believing he is the one true "God," Yahweh Almighty. Yeshua made it clear that he was not, in Jn.17:3; "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee [Yahweh] the only true God, and Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiah, whom thou hast sent." The Apostle Paul declared the same thing in 1 Cor.8:6; "But to us there is but one God, the Father [Yahweh], of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiah), by whom are all things, and we by him."

Replacing "God" with "elohim" helps to understand the meaning:

“Your throne, O elohim, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore elohim, your Elohim, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

Here is what Psalm says:

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.
Psalm 45:6-7

The writer of the book of Hebrews says:

But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
Hebrews 1:8

Elohim is a plural reference to God, [singular]

It can also mean gods, in the sense of pagan deities.

Do you believe the Psalmist and the writer of the book of Hebrews, intended to indicate that pagan gods [demons] would be seated upon this throne?

The scripture plainly says throne singular, not thrones.

So the correct interpretation would indicate a singular being upon the throne.

Not many plural beings, gods upon many thrones, but one deity God upon His Throne.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Yeshua is not the only King. Verse 16 refers to his Father YHWH.

Let's review the context -

Zechariah 14:

• Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, Zechariah 14:1

The context is about the Day of the Lord.

The Day of the Lord is when Jesus Christ will return with His saints, and pour out the vengeance of God upon the wicked.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:2

It is the Lord Jesus Christ who will come upon the unprepared, as a thief in the night.

The Day of the Lord is also called the Day of Christ.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2

Jesus describes this event Himself as He quotes Zechariah to His disciple upon the mount of Olives.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31

• Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:5

It is the Lord Jesus that will be coming with the saints.

And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:27

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:11-16

The saints clothed in fine linen, white and clean follow Him on white horses.

Jesus is the Lord, who is coming with the saints.

• It shall come to pass in that day that there will be no light;The lights will diminish. 7 It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord—Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light. Zechariah 14:6-7

Jesus refers to this phenomenon in the Olivet Discourse.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:29-30


It is the Lord Jesus who is coming to earth on the Day of the Lord.

It is the Lord Jesus who is coming with His saints, on that Day.

• And in that day it shall be That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and half of them toward the western sea;In both summer and winter it shall occur. And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.In that day it shall be—“The Lord is one,” And His name one. Zechariah 14:8-9

Jesus is the Lord who is coming on the Day of the Lord.

Jesus is the Lord who is coming with the saints.

Jesus is the King over all the earth.

Jesus is the Lord of Lords.

Jesus is the Name above every Name.



JLB

 

[jocor]

One cannot call Jesus "Lord" unless one believes that He is indeed God (YHWH Elohim). Please note carefully (John 19:26-29):

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

I addressed this in post #44

 

[jocor]

Do you believe the Psalmist and the writer of the book of Hebrews, intended to indicate that pagan gods [demons] would be seated upon this throne?

Of course not. I don't even know why you would ask such a question.

The scripture plainly says throne singular, not thrones.

So the correct interpretation would indicate a singular being upon the throne.

Not many plural beings, gods upon many thrones, but one deity God upon His Throne.

Of course. The singular being is Yeshua who sits upon the throne YHWH gave him. He is called "elohim" (a plural form used to refer to a singular being just as it was applied to Moses in Ex 7:1.

 

[jocor]

The Day of the Lord is also called the Day of Christ.

Incorrect. They are two different events. The Day of YHWH is when YHWH begins to judge the world when the 7th seal is opened. The Day of Christ is the day Yeshua returns in the middle of the Day of YHWH.

Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:5

It is the Lord Jesus that will be coming with the saints.

Yes, it is Yeshua who is literally coming, but YHWH is coming as well through the person of Yeshua. Yeshua is YHWH's representative. Anything he does is as though YHWH does it. Aaron was YHWH's representative to Egypt. Here is Ex 7:17-20:

17 This is what Yahweh says: You will know that I am Yahweh by this: with the staff that is in my hand I shall strike the waters of the River and they will turn to blood.
18 The fish in the river will die, and the River will stink, and the Egyptians will not be able to drink the river water." '
19 Yahweh said to Moses, 'Say to Aaron, "Take your staff and stretch out your hand over the waters of Egypt -- over their rivers and canals, their marshland, and all their reservoirs -- and they will turn to blood. There will be blood throughout the whole of Egypt, even in sticks and stones,"
20 Moses and Aaron did as Yahweh ordered. He raised his staff and struck the waters of the River, with Pharaoh and his officials looking on, and all the water in the River turned to blood. NJB

Yahweh says He Himself will smite the waters with the rod in His own hand. Yet, it was Aaron that held the rod (Ex.7:19,20).

 

[JLB]

Incorrect. They are two different events. The Day of YHWH is when YHWH begins to judge the world when the 7th seal is opened. The Day of Christ is the day Yeshua returns in the middle of the Day of YHWH.

You going to have to do better than just state your opinion.

You are going to have to do better, than come up with excuse after excuse after excuse, about how "this doesn't mean that", or "my translation of that verse is better than those who translated the bible"

The Day of the Lord is the Day, when Jesus Christ Himself will come as a thief in the night for those who are unprepared.


15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive andremain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:4

and again

Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. Revelation 3:3

and again

Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.”
Revelation 16:15


The Day of the Lord, is when The Lord Jesus Christ comes with His saints from Heaven.

That is why this Day is also called the day of Christ.

The coming [Parousia] of the Lord is when Jesus Christ returns on the day of the Lord.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
2 Peter 3:10-13


Jesus Christ is the Lord who is coming as a thief in the night.

The day of the Lord.
The day of Christ.
The day of God.

These are all references to the same day, the day of the Lord, which will come as a thief in the night.




JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We know Thomas did not speak English, so he didn't say "God". If he spoke Hebrew, then he most likely said "elohim" which is not a problem. Even Yeshua pointed out that the mighty men of Israel are "elohim" (John 10:34-35 where he is quoting Psalm 82:6). The same would be true if Thomas was speaking Greek. Psalm 82:6 in the Septuagint uses "theos".

So in other words it's impossible to know if Jesus is 'God'. Meaning, not even you can know if he is or not. That's what your arguments amount to.

He's the only one among humans who came down from heaven into the earth. The rest of us originate from the earth. That alone is what distinguishes the Son of God as God for me, personally.
He's not just another man that God decided is going to have the ministry of ministries among men. Man gets zero credit in salvation. To make Jesus simply a man (alone) is to give waaaaay too much credit to mankind for his salvation. You see what I'm saying, don't you. If Jesus was just a really obedient human being alone, then he can no more take credit for the salvation of the world than the rest of us 'obedient' humans can.

 

[JLB]

Yes, it is Yeshua who is literally coming, but YHWH is coming as well through the person of Yeshua.

This verse says the Lord God will come with the saints.

Thus the Lord my God will come, and all the saints with You. Zechariah 14:5

This verse says it also

Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” Jude 14-15

It is the Lord Jesus Christ, who is coming with the saints, not God the Father.


Just as it was the Lord Jesus Christ, who bled and suffered and died on the cross, not God the Father, though it was the Father's will that the Lord Jesus die for our sins on the cross.

Likewise it is the Father's will, that Jesus Christ, the Lord God, return with His saints, on the Day of the Lord.


Jesus is our great God and Savior, we are patiently awaiting His return...looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13

For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; Isaiah 43:3

In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
1 John 4:9

The Son of God, was sent into the world, to become flesh, and be our Savior.




JLB