The Gospel continues to be misunderstood

[TonyFaithAlone]

So Enoch was without sin?
Using your own logic you don't love Jesus because He stated if you love Him you will keep His commands.
You also never belonged to Him
For the Spirit is given to those that keep Gods commands.
If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper,to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

It comes down to how you define sin.
These commands I keep
You know the commandments: 'You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.'"
As well as abstaining from sexual immorality.

But to love as God loves always as in 100 percent of my life I am not perfect. Only God is good. In that context I am working towards perfection.

I agree with most of what you say. It just seem that you are implying that people cannot make mistakes or had a season where they believe in false doctrines and so their faith got destroyed and their moral standards become nothing.

What I'm still trying to figure out is do you lose your salvation if you fall into sins and when does someone cross the line? And are you still considered a child of God if you deliberately live in sins (intentionally or because of false doctrines)?

Paul told the children of disobedient that they 'don't know God', so I assume it means they don't have fellowship with the holy spirit anymore because they are resisting his guide through the word of God. But does the holy spirit ever leave a person who had once repented from sins, believed, and confessed christ?

My thought is you can lose the holy spirit and that's the sin to death (physical). But are have they lose internal life? Paul said no, 'let satan destroy his Body so that his spirit may be saved at the judgement day'.

What are your thoughts on these things?

 

[Randy]

I agree with most of what you say. It just seem that you are implying that people cannot make mistakes or had a season where they believe in false doctrines and so their faith got destroyed and their moral standards become nothing.

What I'm still trying to figure out is do you lose your salvation if you fall into sins and when does someone cross the line? And are you still considered a child of God if you deliberately live in sins (intentionally or because of false doctrines)?

Paul told the children of disobedient that they 'don't know God', so I assume it means they don't have fellowship with the holy spirit anymore because they are resisting his guide through the word of God. But does the holy spirit ever leave a person who had once repented from sins, believed, and confessed christ?

My thought is you can lose the holy spirit and that's the sin to death (physical). But are have they lose internal life? Paul said no, 'let satan destroy his Body so that his spirit may be saved at the judgement day'.

What are your thoughts on these things?

OSAS is not allowed to be discussed. What can be discussed is that those who have the Spirit of Christ in them can not be "deceived away from Jesus".

This is what is written:
Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12 if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13 if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.

Each person is different. One bad apple does make the whole church sinners. Likewise one good apple doesn't make all saints. By their fruit you will recognize them.

I think its wiser to warn and warn or remind and remind.
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

But Jesus will never drive us away. Let no spirit convince you "Jesus" is driving us away.
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

 

[for_his_glory]

If you never sinned again in this life than God would've taken you up to heaven like he did with Enoch. What are you still doing here?

Wisdom said, 'there are no righteous people on earth that are always doing right and never sins'. The apostle Paul himself said he is not perfect yet and he is working toward perfection even though he got caught up to heaven and came down.

Believing that you are perfect in the sight of God when God has only placed his seal of approval on Jesus of Nazareth in this age of grace is blasphemous to say the least. Saul of Tarsus tried that thought, he quickly got knocked off of his 'high-horse' on the Dalmascus road.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

There is no one that has ever gone up to the third heaven nor will there ever be. The only thing that returns back to God when we die is the breath/spirit He breathed into us as it is reserved for judgement, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7. Those who are a sleep in the grave or alive at Christ coming who are Christ own are then caught up to Him, Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Does not say Enoch was taken up to heaven, but that he was only translated that he should not see death at that particular time being he was 365 years old. Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death, Rev 20:6, but only that of the first death, Hebrews 9:27, as all his days were three hundred and sixty as he died, but no one knows where.

I can only assume you are trying to quote from Romans chapter 3 when you said Wisdom said. It's best to use scripture so others can see what you are talking about.

Paul was talking about the Jews of the circumcision that did not believe the oracles (words) of God as all, even today Jew and Gentile, are all guilty before God if they are not following His commands. Paul said for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. How can we reconcile this is being justified freely by God's grace through the redemption that is Christ Jesus. We are all sinners saved by grace through faith as it is a free gift of God through Christ and His finished works on the cross. It's free to all who will accept it.

Flesh will always sin for that is its nature and those who walk in the flesh can not please God. Now if the Spirit of God is in us by that of the Spiritual rebirth then we are indwelled with God's Holy Spirit and walk in the path of God's righteousness that makes us holy unto Him, Romans Chapter 8.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

 

[TonyFaithAlone]

OSAS is not allowed to be discussed. What can be discussed is that those who have the Spirit of Christ in them can not be "deceived away from Jesus".

This is what is written:
Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12 if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13 if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.

Each person is different. One bad apple does make the whole church sinners. Likewise one good apple doesn't make all saints. By their fruit you will recognize them.

I think its wiser to warn and warn or remind and remind.
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

But Jesus will never drive us away. Let no spirit convince you "Jesus" is driving us away.
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

That was my bad about OSAS. I should've been careful about the forum rules.iI guess what I was trying to figure out was what do you believe about the gift of the holy spirit, namely, when does a person get the holy spirit? I wanted to ask this because it's tthe ground of obedience to Jesus's commandments. Without the Holy Spirit indwelling the person cannot acknowledges that Jesus is Lord and master. And if he is not Lord and master then the person have no obligations to obey him. Heck, he doesn't even have the power to 'resist the devil' so how can he do good or love others for that matter. (Just in case please don't misunderstand my motives. I'm not trying to find fault; I'm just trying to find people who have the same mind/spirit as myself)

I need to clarify that I didn't mention enoch to prove that he was completely without sins, but to simply point out that human can only be sinless all the time in heaven according to the bible. I think we can all agree that Jesus is the only exception to this rule.

 

[TonyFaithAlone]

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

There is no one that has ever gone up to the third heaven nor will there ever be. The only thing that returns back to God when we die is the breath/spirit He breathed into us as it is reserved for judgement, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7. Those who are a sleep in the grave or alive at Christ coming who are Christ own are then caught up to Him, Matthew 24:29-31; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Does not say Enoch was taken up to heaven, but that he was only translated that he should not see death at that particular time being he was 365 years old. Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death, Rev 20:6, but only that of the first death, Hebrews 9:27, as all his days were three hundred and sixty as he died, but no one knows where.

I can only assume you are trying to quote from Romans chapter 3 when you said Wisdom said. It's best to use scripture so others can see what you are talking about.

Paul was talking about the Jews of the circumcision that did not believe the oracles (words) of God as all, even today Jew and Gentile, are all guilty before God if they are not following His commands. Paul said for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. How can we reconcile this is being justified freely by God's grace through the redemption that is Christ Jesus. We are all sinners saved by grace through faith as it is a free gift of God through Christ and His finished works on the cross. It's free to all who will accept it.

Flesh will always sin for that is its nature and those who walk in the flesh can not please God. Now if the Spirit of God is in us by that of the Spiritual rebirth then we are indwelled with God's Holy Spirit and walk in the path of God's righteousness that makes us holy unto Him, Romans Chapter 8.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

I was quoting Ecclesiastes 7:20 about how no human can live without sins on earth all the time.

Jesus stated that fact about no one can go to heaven except himself before Saul of Tarsus was converted and before the apostle John saw the Lord Jesus face to face on Patmos island. Paul didn't know whether he was in the body or not when he went up there so we can only assume that he was in the the holy spirit when it occur like the apostle John was also in the spirit when he was taken up to heaven. So your point is kinda weak.

In Genesis it say that 'Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.'. I take that to mean he was taken up to heaven and escape death. Kinda like Elijah. I might have interpreted that wrongly, God knows.

I agree with you that we all have to deal with a corrupted human nature and the severity of its corruption hinges on their past lifestyle. So I too do sincerely hope that I can overcome its evil tendencies by thr power of the holy spirit given through faith.

 

[Randy]

I was quoting Ecclesiastes 7:20 about how no human can live without sins on earth all the time.

Jesus stated that fact about no one can go to heaven except himself before Saul of Tarsus was converted and before the apostle John saw the Lord Jesus face to face on Patmos island. Paul didn't know whether he was in the body or not when he went up there so we can only assume that he was in the the holy spirit when it occur like the apostle John was also in the spirit when he was taken up to heaven. So your point is kinda weak.

In Genesis it say that 'Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.'. I take that to mean he was taken up to heaven and escape death. Kinda like Elijah. I might have interpreted that wrongly, God knows.

I agree with you that we all have to deal with a corrupted human nature and the severity of its corruption hinges on their past lifestyle. So I too do sincerely hope that I can overcome its evil tendencies by thr power of the holy spirit given through faith.

I don't believe Paul went up to heaven. John knew he was in the spirit. Why wouldn't Paul if it was Him? Paul didn't state it was him as he spoke of another. The fact that he didn't know if that person was in or out of the body suggests he heard about it via a 3rd party. The fact that Paul testified to the event it in a letter suggests it was from someone Paul considered as a trustworthy source such as from another apostle or close trusted friend or someone who was held in high esteem in the faith.

That's my take.

Receiving the gift of the HS varies. Baptism, laying on of hands. I think one can confess faith in Jesus without being born again but not apart from the HS as Jesus told the Apostles the Holy Spirit was with them and on that day would be in them. (Pentecost) If in doubt one can ask Jesus for the gift. I say if you don't have the inward testimony of the Spirit to your spirit keep asking until God gives you that sign.

 

[for_his_glory]

I was quoting Ecclesiastes 7:20 about how no human can live without sins on earth all the time.

Jesus stated that fact about no one can go to heaven except himself before Saul of Tarsus was converted and before the apostle John saw the Lord Jesus face to face on Patmos island. Paul didn't know whether he was in the body or not when he went up there so we can only assume that he was in the the holy spirit when it occur like the apostle John was also in the spirit when he was taken up to heaven. So your point is kinda weak.

In Genesis it say that 'Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.'. I take that to mean he was taken up to heaven and escape death. Kinda like Elijah. I might have interpreted that wrongly, God knows.

I agree with you that we all have to deal with a corrupted human nature and the severity of its corruption hinges on their past lifestyle. So I too do sincerely hope that I can overcome its evil tendencies by thr power of the holy spirit given through faith.

That fact is Jesus said no one has even gone up to the third heaven. I have to believe this because He said so.

Have you ever heard The term "slain in the Spirit"? It is found in Numbers 22:31; 2 Chronicles 5:13, 14; Ezekiel 44:4; 1:28; Matthew 17:6; John 6:5; 18:6; .

The term "slain in the Spirit" means falling to the ground as the power of God works through the Holy Spirit and engulfs you in the actual light of the glory of the Lord as He speaks to you. Some people will experience this like I have many times as well not even aware of your surroundings right where you are. Some may never experience it at all as it's usually a special anointing from God when we worship and praise Him in song or prayer, or that He has a special message for the individual.

This is what happened to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus and also John while he was on the isle of Patmos when he received the visions/ revelations as neither one of them were literally taken up to heaven.

Enoch did walk faithfully with God, but yet prone to sin like all of us when we get in the flesh. Then he was no more as God transferred Him like He did with Elijah who was only caught up in a whirlwind within the first heaven that is atmosphere and with Philip, except Philip was found in Azortus, Acts 8:39, but Elijah was never found as no one who knew him knew where he was. It never says they are taken up to the third heaven. This is why it is so important to read the scriptures for our self word for word as many add to and take away by that of what they only think, but not what is already written.

 

[Boaz]

That fact is Jesus said no one has even gone up to the third heaven. I have to believe this because He said so.

Have you ever heard The term "slain in the Spirit"? It is found in Numbers 22:31; 2 Chronicles 5:13, 14; Ezekiel 44:4; 1:28; Matthew 17:6; John 6:5; 18:6; .

The term "slain in the Spirit" means falling to the ground as the power of God works through the Holy Spirit and engulfs you in the actual light of the glory of the Lord as He speaks to you. Some people will experience this like I have many times as well not even aware of your surroundings right where you are. Some may never experience it at all as it's usually a special anointing from God when we worship and praise Him in song or prayer, or that He has a special message for the individual.

This is what happened to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus and also John while he was on the isle of Patmos when he received the visions/ revelations as neither one of them were literally taken up to heaven.

Enoch did walk faithfully with God, but yet prone to sin like all of us when we get in the flesh. Then he was no more as God transferred Him like He did with Elijah who was only caught up in a whirlwind within the first heaven that is atmosphere and with Philip, except Philip was found in Azortus, Acts 8:39, but Elijah was never found as no one who knew him knew where he was. It never says they are taken up to the third heaven. This is why it is so important to read the scriptures for our self word for word as many add to and take away by that of what they only think, but not what is already written.

A quick comment. The definition you gave for slain in the Spirit is YOUR definition, though you are not alone. It is based on your own EXPERIENCE and what you see. No matter how many scriptures you give to back yourself up, that definition or purpose is not in the Bible. And to say it is a special anointing is bordering on a Gnostic experience. To say it is the same thing that happened to Paul on the Damascus road, or John on Patmos is extremely presumptuous. Paul was being appointed by Jesus to spread this brand new Gospel primarily to the Gentiles. And to be an apostle to the church, laying its foundation along with the other apostles (the 12 appointed by Jesus Himself.) That was a requirement to be an apostle, that you be appointed by Jesus and therein carrying His authority. The fruit of Paul's experience is worldwide and eternal. In the case of John on Patmos the fruit is the final book of the foundation of Jesus's Church, our New Testament. Again, worldwide and eternal. That is not what happens when people are "slain in the Spirit" today. Nine times out of ten NO fruit is produced. If anyone perceives a benefit it is purely personal and produces nothing for the church community. So who knows what actually produced the benefit. It is not the same thing.
So please don't produce a pile of scriptures to prove me wrong. It is how you interpret those scriptures, that causes you to consider them proof and you interpret them through your own bias. But I still love you as my sister in Christ.

 

[TonyFaithAlone]

That fact is Jesus said no one has even gone up to the third heaven. I have to believe this because He said so.

Have you ever heard The term "slain in the Spirit"? It is found in Numbers 22:31; 2 Chronicles 5:13, 14; Ezekiel 44:4; 1:28; Matthew 17:6; John 6:5; 18:6; .

The term "slain in the Spirit" means falling to the ground as the power of God works through the Holy Spirit and engulfs you in the actual light of the glory of the Lord as He speaks to you. Some people will experience this like I have many times as well not even aware of your surroundings right where you are. Some may never experience it at all as it's usually a special anointing from God when we worship and praise Him in song or prayer, or that He has a special message for the individual.

This is what happened to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus and also John while he was on the isle of Patmos when he received the visions/ revelations as neither one of them were literally taken up to heaven.

Enoch did walk faithfully with God, but yet prone to sin like all of us when we get in the flesh. Then he was no more as God transferred Him like He did with Elijah who was only caught up in a whirlwind within the first heaven that is atmosphere and with Philip, except Philip was found in Azortus, Acts 8:39, but Elijah was never found as no one who knew him knew where he was. It never says they are taken up to the third heaven. This is why it is so important to read the scriptures for our self word for word as many add to and take away by that of what they only think, but not what is already written.

I don't know about you but I don't want God to kill me for crossing the line with sins. I don't need that kind of dramatic experiences to know that God only speak through the bible today.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't know about you but I don't want God to kill me for crossing the line with sins. I don't need that kind of dramatic experiences to know that God only speak through the bible today.

There are times when these dramatic experiences which can be our wake up call draws us closer to God who reveals all truths through His Holy Spirit.

Revelations 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

God could not make it any clearer what happens to those who add to or take away from that which He has already inspired the Prophets and Apostles to write in all their letters for us to learn from.

 

[for_his_glory]

A quick comment. The definition you gave for slain in the Spirit is YOUR definition, though you are not alone. It is based on your own EXPERIENCE and what you see. No matter how many scriptures you give to back yourself up, that definition or purpose is not in the Bible. And to say it is a special anointing is bordering on a Gnostic experience. To say it is the same thing that happened to Paul on the Damascus road, or John on Patmos is extremely presumptuous. Paul was being appointed by Jesus to spread this brand new Gospel primarily to the Gentiles. And to be an apostle to the church, laying its foundation along with the other apostles (the 12 appointed by Jesus Himself.) That was a requirement to be an apostle, that you be appointed by Jesus and therein carrying His authority. The fruit of Paul's experience is worldwide and eternal. In the case of John on Patmos the fruit is the final book of the foundation of Jesus's Church, our New Testament. Again, worldwide and eternal. That is not what happens when people are "slain in the Spirit" today. Nine times out of ten NO fruit is produced. If anyone perceives a benefit it is purely personal and produces nothing for the church community. So who knows what actually produced the benefit. It is not the same thing.
So please don't produce a pile of scriptures to prove me wrong. It is how you interpret those scriptures, that causes you to consider them proof and you interpret them through your own bias. But I still love you as my sister in Christ.

As far as being slain in the Spirit I can only give my own experience as it is mine unlike any others who have experience this. I gave the OT and NT scriptures where this is found as it is not my definition, but what is already written in the scriptures. Like I said, those who have never experience have no idea what it is like.

In my paticular experience it was very simular to Paul's Damascus road transformation as God was preparing me for His ministry by first creating in me a new heart that now bears much fruit of the Spirit that could never have been produce before. God's ministry and His outpouring of the Holy Spirit in me and through me in the last twenty years has led me to many places through out this world in many different countries via the internet.

God's anointing is very special as He sets His seal upon us and puts His Spirit in our hearts, 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22 as we are all His servants and where He leads we must follow.

Can't see Revelations as being any fruits of the Spirit, but that of Christ sending and angel to John to reveal all these visions to him of things that must come before Christ return.

Not interpreting scripture as it speaks for itself as I already gave the scriptures and nothing bias about anything as I can only give of my own experience and what scripture says.

We will just have to disagree, but yet remain friends as we truly are sisters in Christ.

 

[Boaz]

As far as being slain in the Spirit I can only give my own experience as it is mine unlike any others who have experience this. I gave the OT and NT scriptures where this is found as it is not my definition, but what is already written in the scriptures. Like I said, those who have never experience have no idea what it is like.

In my paticular experience it was very simular to Paul's Damascus road transformation as God was preparing me for His ministry by first creating in me a new heart that now bears much fruit of the Spirit that could never have been produce before. God's ministry and His outpouring of the Holy Spirit in me and through me in the last twenty years has led me to many places through out this world in many different countries via the internet.

God's anointing is very special as He sets His seal upon us and puts His Spirit in our hearts, 2 Corinthians 1:21, 22 as we are all His servants and where He leads we must follow.

Can't see Revelations as being any fruits of the Spirit, but that of Christ sending and angel to John to reveal all these visions to him of things that must come before Christ return.

Not interpreting scripture as it speaks for itself as I already gave the scriptures and nothing bias about anything as I can only give of my own experience and what scripture says.

We will just have to disagree, but yet remain friends as we truly are sisters in Christ.

People being overpowered by the Spirit of God is in the Bible I never disputed that. I'm saying today's culture has decided to believe that it is for us today, just because it happened to a FEW people in the Bible. And we need to be careful about that because it causes us to miss the point of the scripture.. I too have been "slain in the Spirit" because different pastors t different times were calling people forward for that purpose. Did I fall? Yes. Was I faking it? No. One of the things that made me think it was truly the Holy Spirit is that I WILL NOT FALL BLINDLY BACKWARDS TRUSTING SOMEONE EVER!!! Sure sometimes I felt different . More relaxed, as though a load were removed from my shoulders. But it was all temporary. And I never witnesses it changing anyone. I began to wonder, if the Holy Spirit, the very Spirit of the Lord God Almighty, knocked a person over, wouldn't it accomplish something profound and meaningful?
But I am glad your experience was different and you are on a good and productive road.
We should not let experiences become a factor in interpreting scripture though. I say this because that has become rampant in the church and makes us miss a lot of what God tells us in His Word.
And even though I do agree to disagree and who am I to make a judgement on what you experience or believe------
I stand by my proclamation that the slain in the Spirit we see today, even if it is something, is not the same thing as is seen in the Bible. It doesn't DO the same thing. Something certainly changed for you though, for the good, and how can I knock that?

 

[for_his_glory]

People being overpowered by the Spirit of God is in the Bible I never disputed that. I'm saying today's culture has decided to believe that it is for us today, just because it happened to a FEW people in the Bible. And we need to be careful about that because it causes us to miss the point of the scripture.. I too have been "slain in the Spirit" because different pastors t different times were calling people forward for that purpose. Did I fall? Yes. Was I faking it? No. One of the things that made me think it was truly the Holy Spirit is that I WILL NOT FALL BLINDLY BACKWARDS TRUSTING SOMEONE EVER!!! Sure sometimes I felt different . More relaxed, as though a load were removed from my shoulders. But it was all temporary. And I never witnesses it changing anyone. I began to wonder, if the Holy Spirit, the very Spirit of the Lord God Almighty, knocked a person over, wouldn't it accomplish something profound and meaningful?
But I am glad your experience was different and you are on a good and productive road.
We should not let experiences become a factor in interpreting scripture though. I say this because that has become rampant in the church and makes us miss a lot of what God tells us in His Word.
And even though I do agree to disagree and who am I to make a judgement on what you experience or believe------
I stand by my proclamation that the slain in the Spirit we see today, even if it is something, is not the same thing as is seen in the Bible. It doesn't DO the same thing. Something certainly changed for you though, for the good, and how can I knock that?

It's all good sis even if we disagree as we see it different and it's never my intention of forcing my beliefs on anyone, but showing how and why I believe as I do.

 

[Boaz]

For-His-Glory

Same here. It's good "talking" with you.:amen

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Lets define "legalism" as defined by Paul, as Webster is not using the NT as context.
"Legalism" is Galatians 1:8
Its referring to a person (Legalist) who is preaching a gospel that is a blend of Jesus, the Cross, and their Works. (commandment keeping, enduring to the end, holding onto their faith.....etc, etc, etc.)
Legalism, a Legalist, will give lip service, = a false presentation of the Gospel.
And the way they always do it, is by adding 10 commandment keeping, and lifestyle, as a PART of the Blood Atonement.
In other words, the Legalist, who is usually not actually born again, but is very apt at speaking "christianese", and uses bible verses, and goes to different Christian fourms to annoy and create chaos......will always defend the LAW and 10 Commandments as "necessary" to be saved, instead of giving FULL CREDIT DUE, to the One who died on the Cross, who HIMSELF is Grace and Salvation.

Here is how you spot a lying legalist on a Christian forum.
Its so easy.
THis is how they "sound".

"Yes, i know that Christ is the savior......BUT".

"yes, i know that Jesus saves......BUT"

See that "but"? That is the sign of the Legalist.
They can never EVER agree that Jesus and the Blood of Christ is all that God accepts to save you and keep you saved.
They can't agree with this, because they do not believe it.

A Legalist, will always, add WORKS, 10 commandments", TO THE CROSS, and then they will all add LIFESTYLE, as well.., as this is how they are "working out their own salvation".
The gospel of the legalist, is "faith + works".
The Gospel of God is "The Cross".

See their problem?
Its a BIG One.

A legalist sounds like this when they teach or preach....>."""now we know that Jesus saves, but, you ALSO have to ..........1. 2. ....3. 4.. 40.....do all this""

See that?
THAT IS Galatians 1:8
THat is "cursed of GOD" theology and PERSON, because it is adding to the Cross, self righteous works, and this denies The Lord His full credit due, for Salvation.
This offends God, who is Jesus on the Cross, and that is why there is a literal CURSE on anyone who teaches or preaches that ... "The Cross + Works, commandments, lifestyle" is the Gospel.....is Salvation.

How do YOU discover if you have fallen from Grace, and you are become a legalist. ??
Very simple.
You just answer this simple question.
Q.) Do you believe that Jesus Christ keeps you saved?

I didnt ask you if He saved you.
I asked you if you believe that He KEEPS You saved?

A Legalist is lying if they say yes, because a legalist believes that enduring to the end, keeping your faith, living a holy life, keeping the law and the 10 commandments, is what is keeping THEM saved., so that is why they preach this cursed of God gospel to others.
So, be careful reader, as a legalist will lie to you, exactly as they have lied to themselves, and to God Almighty.




dw

Great post.......The biggest error I see all over the place is where the religionists supplants Grace with Repentance..... “ Sure , Jesus Saves........BUT ya gotta Repent!” It’s what I call “ Lucky Repentance”, and I can vouch for the fact that it drives the Legalists nuts to hear it.What is this “ Lucky Repentance?” You May or May not be familiar with it, but it works like this—-
Two drivers have a head-on collision .....both saw it coming and let out the most terrible expletives one could imagine......both men died in the wreck . One man had the good fortune , the “ Luck” to utter a prayer of repentance before he went on to meet his Maker.This got him saved. It was the only thing that mattered in the end. His Faith or lack of it? God’s Grace or the Blood Of Christ? Pfffttt......get outa here with that stuff! The other guy that died did not have the “ Luck” of the previous man.He must have got distracted by his pain and did not have the Good Fortune to think quickly enough to offer up his prayer of repentance— of course, he gets Damnation for Eternity......
Those that stress Repentance are relying on their Performance , not the Blood Of Christ, for their Salvation. They realize that their Legalistic “Road” to Heaven is going to be full of sinful “ Pot-Holes” so they use Repentance as a means to insure that their Road is Adequate to get them Saved.Sad, Indeed .
I get everything they fuss and fret about ....all the things that keep them from ever knowing any real peace ....all the things that prevent them from living “ The Abundant Life”.... Just by Resting in the Gospel Of Grace That Jesus revealed to Paul in 1Cor15:1-4....

The only “ Repentance” required for one’s Salvation is the “ mind change” ( from the Greek “ metanoia” ) where one goes from UNBELIEF in Jesus to BELIEF in Jesus.....the Repentance That the Lucky Repenter relies on is the sorrow, the regret, the determination to not do a certain sinful act again is great.....it is part of the NEW HEART package that you got When you were Saved.......a RESULT of Salvation.....as so many other things that happen, when you start living the Life Of Faith instead of the life of Works........it just comes naturally and restores Fellowship with God......

 

[JLB]

Just by Resting in the Gospel Of Grace That Jesus revealed to Paul in 1Cor15:1-4....

Here is the Gospel Jesus revealed to Paul, as he recounts his
“road to Damascus” experience to king Agrippa.

Words of Christ in red:


So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:15-20



The Gospel of Jesus Christ, that He Himself preached, and that He sent His apostles to preach contains the word “repent”.


From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


Repent in this context means turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.


The reason we repent, “turn to God in submission to Jesus Christ as Lord, because He was crucified, buried as rose again on the third day, according to the scriptures, in which He is a King that can not die or be defeated, and His kingdom is superior to all other kingdoms in that it will never pass away, because He will never pass away... For He is the King of kings and Lord of lords.


This is why we repent, and submit ourselves to Jesus as Lord, in which we turn away from Satan as lord.


If we are called to turn to God, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord.


JLB

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Here is the Gospel Jesus revealed to Paul, as he recounts his
“road to Damascus” experience to king Agrippa.

Words of Christ in red:


So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:15-20



The Gospel of Jesus Christ, that He Himself preached, and that He sent His apostles to preach contains the word “repent”.


From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38


Repent in this context means turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.


The reason we repent, “turn to God in submission to Jesus Christ as Lord, because He was crucified, buried as rose again on the third day, according to the scriptures, in which He is a King that can not die or be defeated, and His kingdom is superior to all other kingdoms in that it will never pass away, because He will never pass away... For He is the King of kings and Lord of lords.


This is why we repent, and submit ourselves to Jesus as Lord, in which we turn away from Satan as lord.


If we are called to turn to God, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord.


JLB

“Repent” as in “ Turn to God” will save....
“Repent” as in Being sorry for sins, did not save Judas and won’t save anybody else
“ Sorrow For Sins “ May accompany or prompt putting your Faith in the Gospel Of Paul to Save a person, but it’s Faith in the Gospel That Saves— not the Sorrow and/or Guilt that could get you there. Two things Save us- Christ’s Blood and Our Faith in that Blood.....Plus Nothing....
If the Bible says to “ repent”——- do it! If the Bible says “ Repent Of Sins”—- do it! If the Bible says to “ Repent Of Sins to be Saved”——- Do That also. The problem is : It doesn’t.
The Bible says to BELIEVE the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 in order to be Saved. No mention of “ repentance”. If you have had a “mind change” (metanoia) where you went from NOT trusting the Gospel for your Salvation to actually BELIEVING the Gospel, you have undergone the “ Repentance” that counts with God.....