The Gospel continues to be misunderstood

[Randy]

one thing many people don't realize is that keeping God's 10 commandments or His 613 laws was NEVER God's method to be saved - even in the 1st 5 books of the Bible -

iow jews never kept God's commands to be saved and still don't keep God's laws to be saved - anyone keeping God's laws to be saved is misunderstanding the purpose God gave us His holy laws

they are God's wisdom for a good lifestyle

if we who are BA decide that we can now kill/lie/steal/etc we are greatly deceiving ourselves and misunderstanding God's grace in it's fullness - God's grace is ALSO God's ability working in us helping us to stop sinning and live a good lifestyle

a good lifestyle blesses everyone - a sinful lifestyle hurts everyone - salvation is a separate issue - even the OT says God ALONE saves - Psalms 62:5-7

I don't think those that are in Christ think they are free to sin yet they still understand that the righteousness from God through Christ Jesus was/is credited to us by grace and not by works of the law. The importance is found in faith expressing itself through love.
And the Spirit in us does help us in our weaknesses.
We believe in a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. So we keep a clear conscience before God.

 

[Truthfrees]

I don't think those that are in Christ think they are free to sin yet they still understand that the righteousness from God through Christ Jesus was/is credited to us by grace and not by works of the law. The importance is found in faith expressing itself through love.
And the Spirit in us does help us in our weaknesses.
We believe in a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous. So we keep a clear conscience before God.

true - most people are not interested in sinning - they actually feel really bad when they sin and want to find a way to stop sinning

 

[Randy]

true - most people are not interested in sinning - they actually feel really bad when they sin and want to find a way to stop sinning

Everyone who sins is a slave to sin and no slave has a permanent place in a family.
Jesus stated if the Son sets you free you shall be free indeed.

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Jesus sets us free.
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

A good tree does not bear bad fruit.

 

[WIP]

Everyone who sins is a slave to sin and no slave has a permanent place in a family.
Jesus stated if the Son sets you free you shall be free indeed.

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Jesus sets us free.
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

A good tree does not bear bad fruit.

Can you name a person that does not sin?

The reason I ask is that we also must reconcile the above text with 1 John 1:5-10 and Romans 3:23 and Romans 7:15-25 and Ecclesiastes 7:20 and Isaiah 64:6 and
Romans 3:10-17 and others.

 

[Randy]

Can you name a person that does not sin?

The reason I ask is that we also must reconcile the above text with 1 John 1:5-10 and Romans 3:23 and Romans 7:15-25 and Ecclesiastes 7:20 and Isaiah 64:6 and
Romans 3:10-17 and others.

Depends on how you define sin. Otherwise no one could be saved.
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

I didn't write this
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

 

[WIP]

Depends on how you define sin. Otherwise no one could be saved.
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,

I didn't write this
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

Now you're changing your subject to "deliberately" sinning. That's something different.

So how do we reconcile those verses? They seem to contradict and yet we know the Bible does not contradict itself for a house divided cannot stand.

I believe the answer is in Christ. Here are a few references that I think are helpful.

7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:7-9 NKJV

6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Romans 5:6-11 NKJV

4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever.
Revelation 1:4-6 NKJV

 

[Nathan12]

If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left

Genuine Christians would not deliberately keep on sinning. But they can and so sin. However sin cannot and should not have dominion over those who possess the Holy Spirit.

 

[Randy]

Genuine Christians would not deliberately keep on sinning. But they can and so sin. However sin cannot and should not have dominion over those who possess the Holy Spirit.

Can you give examples of this sin that isn't directed by ones will? And so can't be controlled or stopped.

 

[Randy]

Now you're changing your subject to "deliberately" sinning. That's something different.

So how do we reconcile those verses? They seem to contradict and yet we know the Bible does not contradict itself for a house divided cannot stand.

I believe the answer is in Christ. Here are a few references that I think are helpful.

7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:7-9 NKJV

6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Romans 5:6-11 NKJV

4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever.
Revelation 1:4-6 NKJV

I think it comes down to what you are calling sin.
You know the commandments: 'You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.'"

Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were.

I think the commandment Jesus stated and abstaining from sexual immorality can be kept.

 

[Nathan12]

Can you give examples of this sin that isn't directed by ones will? And so can't be controlled or stopped.

I did not say anything about sin that cannot be controlled or stopped. I simply pointed out the fact that Christians can and do sin, and there are no sinlessly perfect Christians.

 

[Randy]

I did not say anything about sin that cannot be controlled or stopped. I simply pointed out the fact that Christians can and do sin, and there are no sinlessly perfect Christians.

You also stated, "Genuine Christians would not deliberately keep on sinning"
Which I replied
Can you give examples of this sin that isn't directed by ones will? And so can't be controlled or stopped.

If you strain out a gnat in defining what are sins then I expect you are correct. If you use the commandments Jesus stated and add abstain from sexual immorality. Those commandments can and should be kept.

A good tree doesn't bear bad fruit. By their fruit you will recognize them.
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

 

[WIP]

I think it comes down to what you are calling sin.
You know the commandments: 'You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.'"

Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were.

I think the commandment Jesus stated and abstaining from sexual immorality can be kept.

Really?

How many times do we get angry at another and perhaps cuss them or have thoughts of ill will, even just slightly? By Jesus' definition, those are murderous thoughts. See Matthew 5:21-26.

How many times do we entertain thoughts of lust even in the slightest? By Jesus' definition, those are adulterous thoughts. See Matthew 5:27-30.

How many times do we fail to resist when another strikes out at us verbally or otherwise? By Jesus' definition, those are sinful for we are not turning the other cheek or going the extra mile. See Matthew 5:38-42.

How many times do we entertain thoughts or actions against our enemies or those we don't particularly like too much? By Jesus' definition, these are sinful for we are not loving them, blessing them, or doing good to them. See Matthew 5:43-48.

 

[for_his_glory]

I think it comes down to what you are calling sin.
You know the commandments: 'You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.'"

Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were.

I think the commandment Jesus stated and abstaining from sexual immorality can be kept.

We are to live by the moral and civil parts of the law by that of the greatest commandment of love. If we are loving one another, including those who come against us, and truly walking in the Spirit and crucifying this flesh daily then there should be no sin found in us. But, and this is no excuse by any means, we are also still housed in this sinful flesh that will always sin as flesh and Spirit will always be a constant battle within us, Galatians 5:17.

Temptation is the trying of your faith that works patience in all things placed before us, James 1:2, 3. As a child of God we are going to keep His commandments and walk in His statures that are not that hard to keep.

Our biggest problem is our tongue as it can defile the whole body as it's not that hard to abstain from fleshly desires, but as James said, James 3:5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth! 6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

 

[Nathan12]

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

This a speaking about habitual and deliberate sinning. Now why don't you sit down and make a list of your sins of omission? Then let us know if you are sinlessly perfect.

 

[Randy]

This a speaking about habitual and deliberate sinning. Now why don't you sit down and make a list of your sins of omission? Then let us know if you are sinlessly perfect.

Which commandment do you speak of?

 

[Randy]

The gospel was/is preached into this world. Also in the beginning there were many false Gods. And with light comes accountability. -Justice to the nations

Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes,
sodomites, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of
these will inherit the kingdom of God.

That is what some WERE.

for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

As far as always "Good" haven't you read "Only God is good"

 

[Nathan12]

Which commandment do you speak of?

Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (James 4:17)

 

[for_his_glory]

It's our inner man (spirit) that is a new creation in Christ which is perfect and undefiled. The flesh which we are housed in will sin as that is its nature and flesh and Spirit can not mix. Galatians 5:17. Paul explained it very well about how we will continue to sin in the flesh, Romans 7:14-25. It is not our desire to sin, but yet the flesh will win a few battles, but never the war.

I know I am not perfect and my greatest sin I continue to work on is what comes out of my mouth when I allow my flesh to speak in anger.

 

[Christ_empowered]

i think flesh is also a type of metaphor for the old man/old woman. God sees fit to put off the old, put on the new...

with our efforts going into the mix.

 

[for_his_glory]

i think flesh is also a type of metaphor for the old man/old woman. God sees fit to put off the old, put on the new...

with our efforts going into the mix.

Ephesians 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Flesh is the old man, carnal mind thoughts, but now through the Holy Spirit our mind is renewed as we now have the mind of Christ and seek those things from above, Colossians 3:1-4.