farouk
Member
Among Christians it's also a time honored custom to 'mark, read and inwardly digest' the Scriptures they have read, and this can take place either individually or in discussion.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Among Christians it's also a time honored custom to 'mark, read and inwardly digest' the Scriptures they have read, and this can take place either individually or in discussion.
T
Thetruth101
Guest
Refer to the "orginal teaching of the trinity and Jesus Christ" under Christianity Apologetics. It goes hand in hand with the Title of ths thread. With the mindset of given Thread, it can be established. This was his original teaching, not the mainstream teachings of today corrupted by Constantine era. Thus, it should be soon, the new of all creation.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Believing the Gospel is not as false teachers project it to be, that of accepting an bogus offer, after Christ has supposedly offered up Himself for all without exception, to the so called freewill of men ! But no, it is the spiritual reception of the Divine Testimony about Christ and His Redemptive Work through His Cross for His Church, the Sheep,or His People ! 1 Tim 2:4-6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
It is then those whom Christ is Mediator of, they are sent a Testimony Via the Gospel !
This Testimony is received or Believed by those it is designed for as here 2 Thess 1:10
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony[Of the Gospel] among you was believed) in that day.
We receive this Testimony of the Gospel only as it is by the Power of the Holy Spirit and it is then confirmed in us as per 1 Cor 1:6
Even as the testimony of Christ[Or Gospel of Christ] was confirmed in you:
All for whom Christ died, it will be personally testified to them by the Gospel and the Power of the Holy Spirit so they will believe in their Salvation by Him !
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
It is then those whom Christ is Mediator of, they are sent a Testimony Via the Gospel !
This Testimony is received or Believed by those it is designed for as here 2 Thess 1:10
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony[Of the Gospel] among you was believed) in that day.
We receive this Testimony of the Gospel only as it is by the Power of the Holy Spirit and it is then confirmed in us as per 1 Cor 1:6
Even as the testimony of Christ[Or Gospel of Christ] was confirmed in you:
All for whom Christ died, it will be personally testified to them by the Gospel and the Power of the Holy Spirit so they will believe in their Salvation by Him !
The Church is not the world!!!
That is total perversion of God's word!!
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world. 1 John 2:15-16
Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 1 John 3:1
4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. 6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. 1 John 4:4-6
The Church is not the world.
JLB
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
jlb
Its the World in Jn 3:16
Its the World in Jn 3:16
It is most certainly not the world in ANY scripture in the bible.
If you teach this then your are misguiding people and deceiving them!
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
God sent His Son into the world...
...but he who does not believe is condemned already.
People have a choice to repent and obey the Gospel, or not.
God loves the world, however if the world chooses to reject the Gospel then they are damned!
The Church is made up of people who were formerly in the world but now, through believing and obeying the gospel message they are no longer in the world but in the Church!
I hope and pray you can see this!
JLB
Hopefully we are not thinking the world in John 3:16 is talking of the earth. Jesus did not die for any but unregenerate man that they might become sons of God; the church and that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Considering the world:
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Strong's - World
5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ.
Now let's get back to the topic please without personal attacks. Thanks.
1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Considering the world:
John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
Strong's - World
5) the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family
6) the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ.
Now let's get back to the topic please without personal attacks. Thanks.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
eugene
He died for His Church, and they were already the Children of God, in fact that is why He died for them ! Heb 2:13-14
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
The Children are partakers of flesh and blood whenever they are born of a woman as a sinner !
He died for His Church, and they were already the Children of God, in fact that is why He died for them ! Heb 2:13-14
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
The Children are partakers of flesh and blood whenever they are born of a woman as a sinner !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
The Gospel of God
The Gospel of God Rom 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
The Truth of Rom 5:19 of how one is made Righteous before God, is part of the Gospel of God, hence to deny,or twist that Truth of Rom 5:19 in any way is nothing short of perverting the Gospel of God. In this single verse within its overall context, informs us that those Christ died for, His obedience unto death,that by it they shall be made Righteous; Or this by His ONE Obedience, apart from theirs, and its not His and theirs combine, but by this Obedience of One ! Now if we add to that, we have a false gospel Gal 1:8-9 ! This Shall be made Righteous = Salvation !
The Gospel of God Rom 1:1
Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
The Truth of Rom 5:19 of how one is made Righteous before God, is part of the Gospel of God, hence to deny,or twist that Truth of Rom 5:19 in any way is nothing short of perverting the Gospel of God. In this single verse within its overall context, informs us that those Christ died for, His obedience unto death,that by it they shall be made Righteous; Or this by His ONE Obedience, apart from theirs, and its not His and theirs combine, but by this Obedience of One ! Now if we add to that, we have a false gospel Gal 1:8-9 ! This Shall be made Righteous = Salvation !
That does not make sense. Are you saying that that God gave His Son to the church and that we need to believe in him again?
It also does not make sense if the church was not established until Christ left...
Hmmmm...
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Rom 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [The Gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth [or is believing]; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Now why is the Gospel the Power of God to everyone who is believing ? Its because those who are believing are being caused to believe by God's Power by way of the Gospel. Ps 110:3
Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power or Gospel, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
Ezk 36:27
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
The Gospel to them is God's God's Power,Strength, ability causing them to be Willing.
Believing the Gospel is the Evidence of God's Power at Work. The same thing also here 1 Cor 1:18
18 For the preaching of the cross[The Gospel] is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [The Gospel] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth [or is believing]; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Now why is the Gospel the Power of God to everyone who is believing ? Its because those who are believing are being caused to believe by God's Power by way of the Gospel. Ps 110:3
Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power or Gospel, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
Ezk 36:27
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
The Gospel to them is God's God's Power,Strength, ability causing them to be Willing.
Believing the Gospel is the Evidence of God's Power at Work. The same thing also here 1 Cor 1:18
18 For the preaching of the cross[The Gospel] is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
So, can you tell me what these preGospel folks had been saved from since, as you say, they were already in a saved state?
Thanks.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
Do you understand the points in the post I made and why ? Please rehearse with me all the points I made in post 383, then I will answer questions !
Rehearsed...no answers...a lot of opinion though.
What I am asking for is a Scripture passage that clearly shows what the these alleged preGospel saved folks were saved from. What you are suggesting is that a saved person needs to be saved. What is the difference between the two instances of "saved."? Scripture only, please. I will not discuss opinion or conjecture...
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S
savedbygrace57
Guest
SlickPen50
Member
All's I can say is that "the gospel of the kingdom" being preached fell off the cliff after the first century. You can hardly find a reference to this syntax anywhere in "Christian" writings that have survived including Polycarp and virtually anybody else you want to name. In the 2nd century and beyond, writers coldly replicate SOME of what the apostles and Christ taught concerning "the kingdom of God."
We can't call "preaching the gospel" in what calls itself church the same as "preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God" as one was touring around the country in Israel. They are about as different as night and day. Today's "gospel" is the "truth" about easy believism where you can grunt at a couple mentions of theological idealism and "you're saved." The gospel of the kingdom of God is and always was seditious to the systems of men: not purposing to be, this is just how man's systems have seen it.
The gospel of the kingdom of God demands that your earthly citizenship be considered as dung (Phil. 3:2-11) and that you be raised a new creation in Christ (II Cor. 5:17KJV) to live a life HE motivates, directs and guides (Lordship). I don't see much reality to that in the west at all.
To moderns, "The kingdom of God" means anything from various forms of Dominionism, to the evidence of God's blessing in prosperity, to making the world a better place, to the social gospel. If you don't believe me, just do a little reading outside of the theological camp you've take up with and query 50+ national ministries across the country on the basic questions of what is the KOG, when does it exist and how do it affect my life; and you will be informed as to this reality.
We've got an epic problem concerning the kingdom of God in what calls itself church on any level and any locale. Believers in persecuted places on the globe are giants as to what the KOG means and their connection to it.
We can't call "preaching the gospel" in what calls itself church the same as "preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God" as one was touring around the country in Israel. They are about as different as night and day. Today's "gospel" is the "truth" about easy believism where you can grunt at a couple mentions of theological idealism and "you're saved." The gospel of the kingdom of God is and always was seditious to the systems of men: not purposing to be, this is just how man's systems have seen it.
The gospel of the kingdom of God demands that your earthly citizenship be considered as dung (Phil. 3:2-11) and that you be raised a new creation in Christ (II Cor. 5:17KJV) to live a life HE motivates, directs and guides (Lordship). I don't see much reality to that in the west at all.
To moderns, "The kingdom of God" means anything from various forms of Dominionism, to the evidence of God's blessing in prosperity, to making the world a better place, to the social gospel. If you don't believe me, just do a little reading outside of the theological camp you've take up with and query 50+ national ministries across the country on the basic questions of what is the KOG, when does it exist and how do it affect my life; and you will be informed as to this reality.
We've got an epic problem concerning the kingdom of God in what calls itself church on any level and any locale. Believers in persecuted places on the globe are giants as to what the KOG means and their connection to it.
To me the kingdom of God preached is relevant to the one affected. E.g., Abraham's bosom now in heaven, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. There are the twenty-four elders, the four living ones, the great multitude, and the one hundred and forty-four thousand, and all these are a part of the everlasting kingdom.
There is one gospel of God, but different aspects to it considering time and those it was presented to. The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the gospel of the kingdom, the fulfilled gospel, the gospel of the grace of God, the gospel of peace; all portraying the good news by the grace of God.
Hope of glory
Member
First of all math.23:29-30 is symbolic O.T. language similar to that of the prophets. These words are not to be taken literal.
Consider v29 and contrast it with:
Isa.13:10 "for the stars of heaven and the constallations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine
Joel 2:10 "the earth shall quake before them, the heavens shall tremble; the sun and the moon shall be dark and the stars shall withdraw their shining"
These scriptures in the O.T. were symbolic of God judging Israel at the hands of foriegn nations. (obviously the stars never fe from heaven in isaiah's days). Now Jesus as the greatest of all prophets uses the same symbolic language to prophecy the destruction of Jerusalem at the hands of the Romans (remember the context is about Jerusalems destruction-math.24:2-3). Any Jew who was acquainted with the OT writings would have understood jesus' words as a prediction of destruction upon their nation.
Secondly math.24:30 has nothing to do with a "second coming". Again, Jesus the great prophet is quoting from the OT.
Dan.7:13-14 "I saw in the night visions and behold one like the son of man came with the clouds of heaven and came to the ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion and glory and a kingdom..."
What Daniel saw was the ascension and exaltation of Christ to the right hand of the father.
What Jesus is saying by quoting Daniel is that those who see the destruction of Jerusalem will "see" (understand and perceive) that Jesus is in fact the exalted Christ and he now sits on the right hand of the Father.
To put v29-30 together we would say:
Jesus uses OT prophetic language to prophecy the destruction of the nation and then says that those who would witness this destruction would "see" and understand that the He the Son of Man has come to the Father in the glory cloud if heaven and he now rules over all in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Much more can be said regarding these scriptures but this alone should make sense to one who understands the word of God by the Spirit.
One more thing. When Jesus says "all these things" in verse 34, you can't separate verses 29-30 from all the verses before them and say that "all these things" only refers to verses 29-30. "All these things" refers to everything Jesus had just said in his discourse beginning at verse 1 of Math 24.
I submit to you that since the destruction of Jerusalem is the focus of the entire discourse and context (v.2-3) that "all these things" includes the destruction of Jerusalem.
Therefore, the generation that witnessed the destruction of Jerusalem was the generation that Jesus said would "not pass till all these things be fulfilled".
Let's be realistic. Pretend I was looking at you and a group of 10 of your friends face to face and you had just asked me some specific questions, and in return I gave you specific answers to your specific questions.
Then, I told you that "this generation" would not pass until the specific things i had just spoken of had taken place.
You would not for 1 second think I was referring to another generation or another people besides you and your 10 friends.
And neither would I, neither would anyone, neither did the disciples.
Just so you know the phrase "this generation" is used 17 times in the gospels and always without exception refers to the contemporary generation of that day. Why do you suppose that Math24:34 is the only exception?
Can you please comment specifically on math24:34 and explain why "this generation" does not mean "this generation"
Thanks
Consider v29 and contrast it with:
Isa.13:10 "for the stars of heaven and the constallations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine
Joel 2:10 "the earth shall quake before them, the heavens shall tremble; the sun and the moon shall be dark and the stars shall withdraw their shining"
These scriptures in the O.T. were symbolic of God judging Israel at the hands of foriegn nations. (obviously the stars never fe from heaven in isaiah's days). Now Jesus as the greatest of all prophets uses the same symbolic language to prophecy the destruction of Jerusalem at the hands of the Romans (remember the context is about Jerusalems destruction-math.24:2-3). Any Jew who was acquainted with the OT writings would have understood jesus' words as a prediction of destruction upon their nation.
Secondly math.24:30 has nothing to do with a "second coming". Again, Jesus the great prophet is quoting from the OT.
Dan.7:13-14 "I saw in the night visions and behold one like the son of man came with the clouds of heaven and came to the ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion and glory and a kingdom..."
What Daniel saw was the ascension and exaltation of Christ to the right hand of the father.
What Jesus is saying by quoting Daniel is that those who see the destruction of Jerusalem will "see" (understand and perceive) that Jesus is in fact the exalted Christ and he now sits on the right hand of the Father.
To put v29-30 together we would say:
Jesus uses OT prophetic language to prophecy the destruction of the nation and then says that those who would witness this destruction would "see" and understand that the He the Son of Man has come to the Father in the glory cloud if heaven and he now rules over all in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Much more can be said regarding these scriptures but this alone should make sense to one who understands the word of God by the Spirit.
One more thing. When Jesus says "all these things" in verse 34, you can't separate verses 29-30 from all the verses before them and say that "all these things" only refers to verses 29-30. "All these things" refers to everything Jesus had just said in his discourse beginning at verse 1 of Math 24.
I submit to you that since the destruction of Jerusalem is the focus of the entire discourse and context (v.2-3) that "all these things" includes the destruction of Jerusalem.
Therefore, the generation that witnessed the destruction of Jerusalem was the generation that Jesus said would "not pass till all these things be fulfilled".
Let's be realistic. Pretend I was looking at you and a group of 10 of your friends face to face and you had just asked me some specific questions, and in return I gave you specific answers to your specific questions.
Then, I told you that "this generation" would not pass until the specific things i had just spoken of had taken place.
You would not for 1 second think I was referring to another generation or another people besides you and your 10 friends.
And neither would I, neither would anyone, neither did the disciples.
Just so you know the phrase "this generation" is used 17 times in the gospels and always without exception refers to the contemporary generation of that day. Why do you suppose that Math24:34 is the only exception?
Can you please comment specifically on math24:34 and explain why "this generation" does not mean "this generation"
Thanks