The Holy Spirit Does Not Guide You Into All Truth!

[Papa Zoom]

not at all your implying since it is written to the disciples.it does not pertain to us

Everything in the Bible pertains to us. The question is: In what way?

Jeremiah 29:11 was not written to us and is NOT for us. It's a promise to Israel. NOT to us. But people "claim" this verse all the time. It's an erroneous use of Scripture.

Yet they never claim Jeremiah 19:14 I will be found by you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you,” declares the Lord, “and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile.”

The same is true for the passages in John. While All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…2 Timothy 3:16,17; we need to approach the Bible as it was written: to a specific audience in a specific circumstance often addressing a specific problem AND we ought to give consideration to the intended audience's understanding of the Scriptural passage. The Bible ought to mean to us exactly what it meant to the intended audience. It isn't a free flowing book that means this to that group but this other thing to another. It may have individual application for each of us (meaning God may use what we've read to help us deal with sin or a situation in our lives) but when it comes to extracting exactly what a passage is intending to say, knowing what it meant to the original audience is key. It's meaning never changes.

 

[civilwarbuff]

You know, when I step back and look at this thread it makes me laugh. Here we are discussing if the HS leads us into all truth or not and we are basing our beliefs on the same few verses and coming up with completely divergent viewpoints. And if asked I would guess the majority of us would most likely believe we were lead there by the HS. You gotta appreciate the irony.

 

[ezra]

because no one on the planet in this history of the Church has ever known all truth.

in the words of other posters i never said we knew all the truth .this seems to be the brick wall .what i have said just like the disciples he will show you the truth as you grow. that where the changed from glory to glory comes in one step at a time

But the fact that I am stating one thing that differs with many of you ought to tell you that someone's not getting it right so apparently the Spirit is slipping up.

so your correct and the rest of us are not ? i am more than aware of the division in the Church.. go to a southern baptist church and mention foot washing.. see how fast a carnal spirit comes out...
this all truth is not all knowing all seeing . but it is truth he shows us as we mature . i have showed my disagreement in the post. once again the part being to the disciples only ,, ya all keep saying context what is it really saying? he the spirit will lead you into all TRUTH .it does not take a masters degree to understand.. any one who claims to hold all the truth there ever was or is.. would be a type Antichrist
the apostolic Pentecost think they hold the truth and mean while the Church of Christ is the true Church along with every other denom..granted some are more easy to associate with.. but think any one person holds all truth is a carnal spirit..
i would suggest somebody go back and re read my disagreement .
might i add at no time has a religious spirit came out and with a demand .much like the words Archie bunker would use stifle it.. yes i have read all the arguments on Jeremiah 29 a expected end.. we are captive in this world .its not our home.. but in the end he does have a expected end for us in the words of a song the Reggie saddler family sings i got me a home not made with hands .. that is all truth not all of the truth.because all the truth has not been given to us YET .!
1 Corinthians 2:9

“But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.” 10
But God hath" revealed them unto us by his Spirit:" for the Spirit searcheth {all things} , yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
changed from glory to Glory one step at a time we are a WIP learning as we go. this spiritual truth is for us . some students will learn faster than others...

 

[ezra]

You know, when I step back and look at this thread it makes me laugh. Here we are discussing if the HS leads us into all truth or not and we are basing our beliefs on the same few verses and coming up with completely divergent viewpoints. And if asked I would guess the majority of us would most likely believe we were lead there by the HS. You gotta appreciate the irony.

all truth as he wants us to know i have used more than a few verses.. how many know more today than they did yesterday? you been given all truth as you need it ..will we ever know %199 all truth doubtful but we will as we need it

 

[ezra]

eremiah 29:11 was not written to us and is NOT for us.

you dont have a expected end? ------------- I DO

 

[ezra]

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(13) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come.—Comp. Note on John 14:17.
He will guide you into all truth.—Better, . . . into all the truth. The words do not mean that the Holy Spirit will fully guide them into truth, but that He will be their guide into the fulness of truth. The word rendered “guide,” occurs again in Matthew 15:14; Luke 6:39; Revelation 7:17; and metaphorically, as here, in Acts 8:31. A comparison of these passages will show that its meaning is “to point out the way,” “to lead one on his way.” The fulness of truth is for the disciples an unknown territory. They are spiritually as blind men, feeling after the truth, but not able to see it. The Spirit of Truth will take them by the hand, and, step by step, as they have strength to follow, will guide them into the territory, and unfold to them the treasures it contains. The promise has a special meaning for the disciples to whom it was spoken; but it holds good for every disciple who seeks to know the truth. We may pray,—without doubt that the prayer is in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and without doubt that it will be answered— this pretty much suns up what i have been saying all along ..there has never been a doubt with in me he was addressing his disciples . But the same thing hold true for us today .

 

[Papa Zoom]

You know, when I step back and look at this thread it makes me laugh. Here we are discussing if the HS leads us into all truth or not and we are basing our beliefs on the same few verses and coming up with completely divergent viewpoints. And if asked I would guess the majority of us would most likely believe we were lead there by the HS. You gotta appreciate the irony.

That is a great observation. It's evidence that this OP is correct. Either that or there's a ton of Christians running around and they don't have the Spirit (of course that couldn't be me!) ;)

 

[ezra]

That is a great observation. It's evidence that this OP is correct. Either that or there's a ton of Christians running around and they don't have the Spirit (of course that couldn't be me!) ;)

really ? there have been disagreements on the all truth .i feel for the most each one has presented in a way that fall in the rules of engagement . some got close to personal ..one thing i did notice is nobody came up with the meaning all truth

 

[Papa Zoom]

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(13) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come.—Comp. Note on John 14:17.
He will guide you into all truth.—Better, . . . into all the truth. The words do not mean that the Holy Spirit will fully guide them into truth, but that He will be their guide into the fulness of truth. The word rendered “guide,” occurs again in Matthew 15:14; Luke 6:39; Revelation 7:17; and metaphorically, as here, in Acts 8:31. A comparison of these passages will show that its meaning is “to point out the way,” “to lead one on his way.” The fulness of truth is for the disciples an unknown territory. They are spiritually as blind men, feeling after the truth, but not able to see it. The Spirit of Truth will take them by the hand, and, step by step, as they have strength to follow, will guide them into the territory, and unfold to them the treasures it contains. The promise has a special meaning for the disciples to whom it was spoken; but it holds good for every disciple who seeks to know the truth. We may pray,—without doubt that the prayer is in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and without doubt that it will be answered— this pretty much suns up what i have been saying all along ..there has never been a doubt with in me he was addressing his disciples . But the same thing hold true for us today .

I agree, it does hold true for us today. I don't discount that fact. I've said over and over the HS is the Spirit of Truth. And if He's working in one's life, Truth and knowledge will follow.

Have you ever had someone tell you that "The HS led me to this...." and then proceed to explain a Bible passage in a way that is clearly flawed? I have. Or how about the one claiming to be HS led but they are jerks in life? That's a dead give away they are full of beans (and we all know the effect beans have on us humans!)

If a person claims to be Spirit led but they lack the following, they are deceiving themselves:
Galatians 5:22-23 New International Version (NIV) 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Just follow the OSAS threads here or any other controversial thread that pop up from time to time. They often end up getting closed because people can't get along. This is not how the Spirit works.

I'll have to dig out my book on "How To Read The Bible For All Its Worth" and start a thread on that. That would be a good study for anyone. You have made many good points in this thread Ezra, thanks for sticking with it. Iron sharpens Iron! Proverbs 27: 17

 

[Papa Zoom]

really ? there have been disagreements on the all truth .i feel for the most each one has presented in a way that fall in the rules of engagement . some got close to personal ..one thing i did notice is nobody came up with the meaning all truth

Yes really. http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...irit-does-not-guide-you-into-all-truth.70783/

We are led into the Truth by the HS. No question. But recognizing when that happens falls on us. So how will a person know when they have the truth or don't?

Truth = that which corespondents to reality. Meaning it's TRUTH and God knows the same thing. It's not opinion or guessing.

For something to be Truth, it must come from God. Meaning that if asked of God, He'd say, "Yes, this is Truth."

Peter's Confession of Christ
Matthew 16
…15“But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.…

Spirit led Truth. And it's Truth only if it actually corresponds to reality.

 

[MarkT]

Of course I know what a guide is.

Not all truth Mark but yes, if you posses the Truth you were guided to that by the HS. You will not always find understanding (truth) because something we see through a glass dimly. Other things we attribute to the Spirit's working in our lives but it's just our bias or something else at work.

Then you know what a guide does. It's the guide who has all the answers. It's not the one who has the guide. Those who possess the Spirit have the guide.

The guide leads us to the pure water. The guide makes us lie down in green pastures. We drink to satisfy our thirst and we eat to satisfy our hunger. We do not become all knowing as your argument suggests we should.

Even Jesus didn't know the hour and the day when he was going to return.

So your argument rests on a false premise that we should become all knowing if the Spirit leads us into all the truth. The problem then is your interpretation of John 16:13

 

[ezra]

Have you ever had someone tell you that "The HS led me to this...."

i dont even give it a 2nd thought when i hear this.. all though it has been a while since i heard that phrase most of the time they just do it.. we do have one at church that opens service does use that.. or The Lord laid on my heart . when a person does this they might just well say i feel like i need to do this. in most case the true led by the spirit will do it and it will happen . when one speaks or one does there is no need to announce it. i have had folks come to me after preaching and say man i needed that . i just try to go by what comes out..i have no certain set method.. one lady said you chase a lot of rabbits but make good points .. we forget one thing its the Anointing that destroys the yoke. paul wrote in collisions 3:23 Whatever you do, do it enthusiastically, as something done for the Lord and not for men, kjv says do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
follow that rule it will all work out my self i have seen man do it for him self all truth comes as a nice breeze on a hot day

 

[ezra]

For something to be Truth, it must come from God. Meaning that if asked of God, He'd say, "Yes, this is Truth."

no disagreement here in fact this puts things in line . its not about us but about Him

 

[Papa Zoom]

Then you know what a guide does. It's the guide who has all the answers. It's not the one who has the guide. Those who possess the Spirit have the guide.

The guide leads us to the pure water. The guide makes us lie down in green pastures. We drink to satisfy our thirst and we eat to satisfy our hunger. We do not become all knowing as your argument suggests we should.

Even Jesus didn't know the hour and the day when he was going to return.

So your argument rests on a false premise that we should become all knowing if the Spirit leads us into all the truth. The problem then is your interpretation of John 16:13

everything you said is correct except your last paragraph and this: We do not become all knowing as your argument suggests we should.<---I don't believe this and never have promoted this. My argument never "suggests" we should. I have stated many times that we see only in part. Therefore we ought to take care in claiming a Spirit led Truth.

I never said "we should become all knowing if the Spirit leads us into all the truth." I don't believe this and never have. I've stated that our knowledge is and will be limited and that in many (if not most) cases, our understanding of the things of God will be foggy 1 Corinthians 13:12.

 

[ezra]

interpretation of John 16:13

interpretation is exactly what it is for all of us

 

[Papa Zoom]

no disagreement here in fact this puts things in line . its not about us but about Him

This is exactly right. It's all about HIM and not about me. The Spirit lead us into Truth. But I'm a factor in it and that's where the problem starts and ends: me

 

[ezra]

This is exactly right. It's all about HIM and not about me. The Spirit lead us into Truth. But I'm a factor in it and that's where the problem starts and ends: me

mirror mirror on the wall who is the biggest problem of all --the word is the mirror and shoes us how we really are . ruffled hair unhsahaved faces bags under the eyes . . same goes on the inside dead man bones doer of the word james 1: 22 Be doers of the word,and not hearers only. Otherwise, you aredeceivingyourselves. 23For anyone who hears the word but does not carry it out is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror,…

 

[JAG ..]

`
You can't even have a decent theology discussion
on this forum without someone getting their undies
all in a knot.
`

I grinned when I read that one. That's a keeper.

And so true, too. I have noticed that, and noticed it quite often.

The entire Internet is like that, the emotional-ones get their undies
in a knot quick and often.

 

[billybalke]

Ok, kill me now. Or better yet, hear me out.

John 16:13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come.

People I've talked to always refer to this verse to explain that the Holy Spirit guides people into understanding the Truths of God's word. This has always confused me. That's because I've noticed that throughout my life, Christians have different understandings of what the Bible is saying on any given issue. So what's going on?

I don't think this verse means what people think it means. Clearly, the Holy Spirit doesn't guide any of into all truth because if He did, we'd know everything.

We'd all agree on everything because it would be from God. No divisions.

We wouldn't need each other for the "iron sharpens iron" thing because what's better that the HS?

AND if it were true that the HS guides us into ALL truth, then this verse seems contradictory.

1 Corinthians 13:12King James Version (KJV)
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

So chew on that and lets talk (nicely) about what this could mean. I think John 16:13 is quoted and applied out of its greater context. I'll share more on that later. I'd like to hear (positive and non-emotional) comments first to see if anyone has wondered about this as well.

I put this in apologetics because it has to do with understanding and defending what we believe to be true. A skeptic could ask how it is we don't know everything since we claim the HS will guide us into all truth.

In Jn.16 Jesus was speaking only to the apostles. The word of truth was given to them by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. They caused it to be written to us. The Holy Spirit teaches us (we the uninspired), leads us, into "all truth" as we "rightly divide" the scripture, II Tim.2:15 and make appropriate application.

God bless,

To be deep in scripture is to cease being Catholic, Protestant, Jew and Calvinist

 

[Papa Zoom]

I grinned when I read that one. That's a keeper.

And so true, too. I have noticed that, and noticed it quite often.

The entire Internet is like that, the emotional-ones get their undies
in a knot quick and often.

I was like that a lot long ago. I still have my moments. Even recently. I'm grateful for my men's group where any topic can be on the table and is treated with dignity. We dig deep and hash out some interesting topics. At least to me they are interesting.