you are here posting right?thanks, for you friendly opposition
I am and I thank you too. Iron keeps iron sharp.
and right back at ya, Sister!Christian Forums
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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The identity of the antichrist in 5 verses
- Thread starter BigSodaExposer
- Start date
I am and I thank you too. Iron keeps iron sharp.
and right back at ya, Sister!I have enough trouble with English2
LOL
Jewish counter missionaries actually do use the Maher-shalal-hash-baz context to refute Christian interpretation of Isaiah 7:14 (along with the 'almah' rendering of 'virgin' in the text.
The typical Christian response is the Greek Septuagint translation "parthenos" (virgin) for the Hebrew "almah" to which the countermissionary responds that Dinah (Jacob's daughter that was raped by Shechem) was also called parthenos in the Septuagint (LXX).
I do not know if it ever caught on, but my response to this was that parthenos refers to a female who is approaching child-bearing age but not quite there... meaning Shechem was a pedophile. And if an underage female was not a virgin...
The counter missionary had no counter point for that one but had to leave.
dianegcook
Member
.
Sorry John, I thought I did, lol
Look on page 3, post #60, it was addressed to someone else.
Sorry for confusion
Jewish counter missionaries who argued the same context argument you did about another subject (antichrist).
Judas Iscariot's remorse was not over what it appeared to be on the surface.
Matthew 27:3–10(NASB)
3Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they said, “What is that to us? See to that yourself!”
5And he threw the pieces of silver into the temple sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself.
6The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, “It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood.”
7And they conferred together and with the money bought the Potter’s Field as a burial place for strangers.
8For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
9Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “Andthey took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one whose price had been set by the sons of Israel;
10 and they gave them for the Potter’s Field, as the Lord directed me.”
That at the very least this was not a salvation repentance as some here have suggested since the Bible says:
Matthew 26:24
24“The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”
This was not said about Peter who forsook Jesus 3 times as he predicted he would. But was given full restoration to discipleship apostleship. So Judas is in fact the one Jesus said was the exception to those he had not lost.
John 17:12 (AV)
12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Who is referred to once again in scripture:
2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 (AV)
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Judas was already dead and in "his own place" (according to Acts 1:25) when Paul wrote this second letter to the Thessalonians. The scriptures were not canonized until the 4th Century CE, so even the biblical correlation between the two texts could not have happened by 70 CE.
So, Preterism in any form is refuted.
Matthew 27:3–10(NASB)
3Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they said, “What is that to us? See to that yourself!”
5And he threw the pieces of silver into the temple sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself.
6The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, “It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood.”
7And they conferred together and with the money bought the Potter’s Field as a burial place for strangers.
8For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
9Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “Andthey took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one whose price had been set by the sons of Israel;
10 and they gave them for the Potter’s Field, as the Lord directed me.”
That at the very least this was not a salvation repentance as some here have suggested since the Bible says:
Matthew 26:24
24“The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”
This was not said about Peter who forsook Jesus 3 times as he predicted he would. But was given full restoration to discipleship apostleship. So Judas is in fact the one Jesus said was the exception to those he had not lost.
John 17:12 (AV)
12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Who is referred to once again in scripture:
2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 (AV)
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Judas was already dead and in "his own place" (according to Acts 1:25) when Paul wrote this second letter to the Thessalonians. The scriptures were not canonized until the 4th Century CE, so even the biblical correlation between the two texts could not have happened by 70 CE.
So, Preterism in any form is refuted.
Posts #66 and #80 are like the reasons those Jews who disbelieve Jesus is the Messiah translate Isaiah 7:14 to refer to Isaiah 8:3 and not prophetic of an actual virgin birth of Jesus.
dianegcook
Member
Well John
I don't think that 2Thess.2:3 has been fulfilled yet, as Matt.24:, Mark 13: nor Luke 21:
The abomination of desolation set up, as spoken by Daniel.
So, I don't believe in reincarnation,lol.
Everyone has different beliefs.
I just don't agree with you on this one.
I don't see it as happening in 70 ce.
I don't think that 2Thess.2:3 has been fulfilled yet, as Matt.24:, Mark 13: nor Luke 21:
The abomination of desolation set up, as spoken by Daniel.
So, I don't believe in reincarnation,lol.
Everyone has different beliefs.
I just don't agree with you on this one.
I don't see it as happening in 70 ce.
turnorburn
Member
In post #48 i said:
How many members know who Martin Luther.. John Calvin.. Cotton Mather.. John Knox.. Thomas Cranmer.. John Wesley.. Roger William.. and Charles Spurgeon were? They all knew who Antichrist was/is..
tob
How many members know who Martin Luther.. John Calvin.. Cotton Mather.. John Knox.. Thomas Cranmer.. John Wesley.. Roger William.. and Charles Spurgeon were? They all knew who Antichrist was/is..
tob
dianegcook
Member
dianegcook
Member
turnorburn
Member
I'll leave you with this for tonight dianegcook it will give you something to think about, then tomorrow, Lord willing, I'll fill you in.. and yes reba knows where I'm going.. 
Founders of "Mainline" Churches Knew Who Anti-Christ Was
tob
Founders of "Mainline" Churches Knew Who Anti-Christ Was
tob
dianegcook
Member
I'll leave you with this for tonight dianegcook it will give you something to think about, then tomorrow, Lord willing, I'll fill you in.. and yes reba knows where I'm going..
Founders of "Mainline" Churches Knew Who Anti-Christ Was
tob
I see something coming already, lol.
I am a peculiar person, not "mainline".
ed
john darling
Member
Many mondern day Christians seem to have this idea that it involves lifting your hands in the air while singing songs, long prayers about how wonderful God is, going to church to listen to a sermon or maybe perhaps a bit of home Bible study.
But in a situation where we are called on to do all things to God's glory, worship includes everything we do. What you are suggesting with your comments is that there is a difference between buying/selling and worship. However, the prophecy clearly links the two. Have you ever asked yourself, "why buying and selling"? Why does the AC use our dependence on money to turn us away from God?
There are many places in the Bible which talk about deception and strong delusion; people choosing to lie to themselves rather than to love the truth etc. This is something which will happen with the "great deception", the great apostasy or "falling away". John records, JN 16:2 yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. These people somehow convinced themselves that they were helping God by killing God's servants. How much easier to convince yourself that taking the Mark of the Beast isn't really taking the Mark of the Beast, (especially when NOT taking it means you no longer have money to trust for your daily bread).
Jesus said something similar about people who will claim to have done all manner of good works in his name, but he will accuse them instead of being workers of iniquity rather than workers of good and that he never knew them. They convinced themselves they were right with God and yet they were so wrong. Paul talks about people who do not know the truth and yet they do the right thing based on God speaking to them through their conscince.
There are so many examples of people who do not know the truth but still do the right thing and people who do know the truth but still do the wrong thing.
Sure, throughout history there have been many instances of economical abuse, but we're not talking about just any situation which involves people not being allowed to use money. This is not just some random point in history which somewhat resembles the prophecy. We're talking about a specific prophecy and world events which are quickly lining up perfectly with what the prophecy predicted; a GLOBAL economic policy involving buying/selling via a "Mark" on the right hand (or forehead, perhaps for amputees or other such situations). Nearly every country in the world is currently experimenting with cashless systems via microchips of some kind. Seven years ago Kenya, a third-world country, was leading the way in phone to phone money transfers, ahead of countries like the U.S. and Britain. Now, an 80 year old grandmother out in the rural sticks can send and receive money through her phone; the network is absolutely huge and the company which started it nets billions in profits every year as a result.
The incentives for these various businesses, banks, and other financial institutions are staggering which is why they are pushing this agenda so heavily. Did you read the article I posted about the Barclays bank in Britain offering chipped gloves? You just wave your gloved hand in front of the scanner to buy.
Does that mean you will be taking a microchip in the hand when the system has evolved to the point that cash money has become obsolete? Or, let me simplify the question; will you take a microchip in the hand, under any circumstances, for buying and selling?
turnorburn
Member
I see something coming already, lol.
I am a peculiar person, not "mainline".
Here it comes..
The following quotes show just how far the churches of today have strayed from the wisdom of their founding fathers.
Martin Luther
(1483-1546) (Lutheran)
"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist." (Aug. 18, 1520) Taken from "The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers," Vol. 2, pg. 121 by Froom.
John Calvin
(1509-1564) (Presbyterian)
"Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt...I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." Taken from "Institutes" by John Calvin.
Cotton Mather
(1663-1728) (Congregational Theologian)
"The oracles of God foretold the rising of an Antichrist in the Christian Church; and in the Pope of Rome, all the characteristics of that Antichrist are so marvelously answered that if any who read the Scriptures do not see it, there is a marvelous blindness upon them." Taken from "The Fall of Babylon" by Cotton Mather in Froom's book "The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers," Vol. 3, pg. 113.
John Knox
(1505-1572) (Scotch Presbyterian)
Knox wrote to abolish "that tyranny which the pope himself has for so many ages exercised over the church" and that the pope should be recognized as "the very antichrist, and son of perdition, of whom Paul speaks." Taken from "The Zurich Letters" pg. 199 by John Knox.
Thomas Cranmer
(1489-1556) (Anglican)
"Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Referring to prophecies in Revelation and Daniel.) Taken from "Works" by Cranmer, Vol. 1, pp. 6-7.
John Wesley
(1703-1791) (Methodist)
Speaking of the Papacy he said, "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers...He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped...claiming the highest power, and highest honor...claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." Taken from "Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms" by John Wesley, pg. 110.
Roger William
(1603-1683) (First Baptist Pastor in America)
He spoke of the Pope as "the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vessals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself...speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to changed times and laws: but he is the son of perdition (II Thess. 2)." Taken from "The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers" by Froom, Vol. 3, pg. 52.
Quoted from GREAT PROPHECIES OF THE BIBLE by Woodrow.
“It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist and as to what Antichrist is no sane man ought to raise a question. If it be not the Popery in the Church of Rome, there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. . .It wounds Christ, because it robs Christ of His glory, because it puts sacramental efficacy in the place of His atonement and lifts a piece of bread into the place of the Savior and a few drops of water into the place of the Holy Spirit and puts a mere fallible man like ourselves up as the Vicar of Christ on earth. If we pray against it, because it is against Him, we shall love the persons though we hate their errors; we shall love their souls though we loathe and detest their dogmas. And so the breath of our prayers will be sweetened because we turn our faces toward Christ when we pray.”
– Charles H. Spurgeon (1834-1892)
tob
dianegcook
Member
As Reba said, Oh boy
No, I do not think the Pope is the antichrist.
I believe it will be a supernatural being, not born of woman.
Rev13:11-
I beheld another beast, he had 2 horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. (Imitate Christ)
13, he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
14, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles, which he had power to do....
Matt.24:24
Show great signs and wonders , if possible, they shall deceive the elect.
Thanks for your time and input though.
gracenote
Member
I'd have to say I was looking at it the very same way when I ran across your response.
Aren't there numerous examples (pun not intended) of numbers being repeatedly used in order to illustrate certain points in the 66 books?
Revelation came later, after Solomon, as (obviously) did Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.