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The identity of the antichrist in 5 verses

dianegcook said:
As Reba said, Oh boy :biggrin2

No, I do not think the Pope is the antichrist.

I believe it will be a supernatural being, not born of woman.
Rev13:11-
I beheld another beast, he had 2 horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. (Imitate Christ)
13, he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
14, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles, which he had power to do....

Matt.24:24
Show great signs and wonders , if possible, they shall deceive the elect.

Thanks for your time and input though.
Click to expand...

Its like Cotton Mather said:

Cotton Mather
(1663-1728) (Congregational Theologian)
"The oracles of God foretold the rising of an Antichrist in the Christian Church; and in the Pope of Rome, all the characteristics of that Antichrist are so marvelously answered that if any who read the Scriptures do not see it, there is a marvelous blindness upon them." Taken from "The Fall of Babylon" by Cotton Mather in Froom's book "The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers," Vol. 3, pg. 113.

Right now as we speak Rome has a firm grip on the United States by way of a concordat..thanks to Ronald Reagan signing one in 1984..

tob

*edit: forgot something "again"

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-napoli-39932/
 
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john darling said:
What you are suggesting with your comments is that there is a difference between buying/selling and worship. However, the prophecy clearly links the two. Have you ever asked yourself, "why buying and selling"? Why does the AC use our dependence on money to turn us away from God?
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Where in scripture does it ever say that "buying and selling" is evil. In fact, it says just the opposite.
john darling said:
John records, JN 16:2 yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.These people somehow convinced themselves that they were helping God by killing God's servants.
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Humm....Sounds just like Saul and some of the other Jews, that killed the prophets, the apostles, and other disciplines.
john darling said:
They convinced themselves they were right with God and yet they were so wrong. Paul talks about people who do not know the truth and yet they do the right thing based on God speaking to them through their conscince.
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If they do not know the truth of the Gospel then they are not Christians are they?
john darling said:
The incentives for these various businesses, banks, and other financial institutions are staggering which is why they are pushing this agenda so heavily. Did you read the article I posted about the Barclays bank in Britain offering chipped gloves? You just wave your gloved hand in front of the scanner to buy.
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So what? What difference does it make if it is a glove, a CCard, a debit card, a check, faux paper money, or coins that have no real value?
john darling said:
Does that mean you will be taking a microchip in the hand when the system has evolved to the point that cash money has become obsolete? Or, let me simplify the question; will you take a microchip in the hand, under any circumstances, for buying and selling?
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Well, first of all I will not reject my Lord in order to receive anything from anyone. So it doesn't matter. I wouldn't do that to receive any kind of money, food, clothing, etc.

Please list the scriptures that you see that talk about people being under a delusion. And then we can discuss those.

It doesn't sound to me like you don't have very much faith in the Lord to keep you safe. I trust the Lord that He keeps me, I am under His protective wings. My faith is in His power not my own. He does not forsake His own.
 
dianegcook said:
As Reba said, Oh boy :biggrin2

No, I do not think the Pope is the antichrist.

I believe it will be a supernatural being, not born of woman.
Rev13:11-
I beheld another beast, he had 2 horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. (Imitate Christ)
13, he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
14, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles, which he had power to do....

Matt.24:24
Show great signs and wonders , if possible, they shall deceive the elect.

Thanks for your time and input though.
Click to expand...
Matthew 24:24, does not speak of one man or supernatural being.

Mat 24:24 for there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the chosen.

Reminds me of people that have proclaimed that they were the Christ and some believed them, even to following them in death. Reminds me of people believing that magicians have supernatural power.
But it's true that even in Moses' day the Pharaoh's magicians took on Moses', that didn't work out so well for them.
 
Deborah13 said:
Where in scripture does it ever say that "buying and selling" is evil. In fact, it says just the opposite.

Humm....Sounds just like Saul and some of the other Jews, that killed the prophets, the apostles, and other disciplines.

If they do not know the truth of the Gospel then they are not Christians are they?

So what? What difference does it make if it is a glove, a CCard, a debit card, a check, faux paper money, or coins that have no real value?

Well, first of all I will not reject my Lord in order to receive anything from anyone. So it doesn't matter. I wouldn't do that to receive any kind of money, food, clothing, etc.

Please list the scriptures that you see that talk about people being under a delusion. And then we can discuss those.

It doesn't sound to me like you don't have very much faith in the Lord to keep you safe. I trust the Lord that He keeps me, I am under His protective wings. My faith is in His power not my own. He does not forsake His own.
Click to expand...
Jesus overturned tables in the temple. That was one thing.
As to buying and/or selling on a Sabbath day, I am not sure. I was trained to rest on the Sabbath and study, pray, fellowship, etc.
I did, however work, as mentioned already. But after church and lunch. Not before.
 
We have kinda wandered off the topic a lil' bit in this topic thread, haven't we? LOL

As to the Pope being antichrist, how do we determine what the term means, exactly? Seems to be used for anybody who would go against the Lord.
Anybody got any thoughts/wisdom/insight into this?
 
gracenote said:
We have kinda wandered off the topic a lil' bit in this topic thread, haven't we? LOL

As to the Pope being antichrist, how do we determine what the term means, exactly? Seems to be used for anybody who would go against the Lord.
Anybody got any thoughts/wisdom/insight into this?
Click to expand...

The term antichrist is used to indicate any individual person who does not believe that the Spirit of God has been sent forth to dwell within their flesh.
 
Deborah13 said:
Matthew 24:24, does not speak of one man or supernatural being.

Mat 24:24 for there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the chosen.

Reminds me of people that have proclaimed that they were the Christ and some believed them, even to following them in death. Reminds me of people believing that magicians have supernatural power.
But it's true that even in Moses' day the Pharaoh's magicians took on Moses', that didn't work out so well for them.
Click to expand...

Hi Deb
You are right, however, as in Rev.9 states,
A locust army comes from the bottomless pit, (fallen angels) and they have a king over them, whose name is Apollyon, (Satan)
Verse 17, you also see the army, having breastplates (Priestly) disguised as angels of light,
Was the third of men killed, by the fire, by smoke and brimstone that issued out of their mouths.
Deceit, killed men spiritually, as Satan did to Eve in the garden, beguiled her.
 
all the scriptures have to say about antichrist is here

1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Man has made much more tado about antichrists then the Scriptures
 
reba said:
all the scriptures have to say about antichrist is here

1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Man has made much more tado about antichrists then the Scriptures
Click to expand...

Yes, Reba,
The spirit of Antichrist is already here, as also the Spirit of God.
Jesus, defacto, is not here yet, same as Satan, defacto, is not here yet.
 
ezrider said:
The term antichrist is used to indicate any individual person who does not believe that the Spirit of God has been sent forth to dwell within their flesh.
Click to expand...
Thats not how i read those verses in John
Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
 
reba said:
Thats not how i read those verses in John
Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Click to expand...

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world
 
yup i sure agree...

when speaking of the scriptures and antichrist the scriptures say this 1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist,

ezrider says this
The term antichrist is used to indicate any individual person who does not believe that the Spirit of God has been sent forth to dwell within their flesh.
Click to expand...
 
gracenote said:
Jesus overturned tables in the temple. That was one thing.
As to buying and/or selling on a Sabbath day, I am not sure. I was trained to rest on the Sabbath and study, pray, fellowship, etc.
I did, however work, as mentioned already. But after church and lunch. Not before.
Click to expand...
I mentioned before that the selling that Jesus objection to was in the temple area. That would be like Unbelievers setting up shop in your church lobby.
Mat 21:13 and he saith to them, `It hath been written, My house a house of prayer shall be called, but ye did make it a den of robbers.'
So we see that they people that were buying and selling were not there to worship the Lord but purely to take advantage of the opportunity to sell their wares and they were not Jews.
If Jesus was against all buying and selling it would have been impossible for most people to have a passover lamb, or other sacrificial animals, such as doves, to bring to the temple. Psalm 28 specifically talks about women selling their wares in the market place and says she is a virtuous woman/wife.

When one works as a laborer they are selling their laborer, their employer is buying their labor.

So maybe all the people who are worried about some new form of currency should be thinking about a day when one cannot get a job or run a business without denying the Lord or compromising their faith.
 
Deborah13 said:
I mentioned before that the selling that Jesus objection to was in the temple area. That would be like Unbelievers setting up shop in your church lobby.
Mat 21:13 and he saith to them, `It hath been written, My house a house of prayer shall be called, but ye did make it a den of robbers.'
So we see that they people that were buying and selling were not there to worship the Lord but purely to take advantage of the opportunity to sell their wares and they were not Jews.
If Jesus was against all buying and selling it would have been impossible for most people to have a passover lamb, or other sacrificial animals, such as doves, to bring to the temple. Psalm 28 specifically talks about women selling their wares in the market place and says she is a virtuous woman/wife.

When one works as a laborer they are selling their laborer, their employer is buying their labor.

So maybe all the people who are worried about some new form of currency should be thinking about a day when one cannot get a job or run a business without denying the Lord or compromising their faith.
Click to expand...
Hang on a sec--you mean that the tables that He was overturning then belonged to NON-Jews?????

John 2:15 "And He found in the temple those who were selling oxen and sheep and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. 15And He made a scourge of cords, and drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen; and He poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables; 16and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Father's house a place of business."…
These were not Jews????
 
gracenote said:
Hang on a sec--you mean that the tables that He was overturning then belonged to NON-Jews
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I would say they were Jews by birth, or even proselytes, but being a Jew is more than being born into a nation. One is not born being a Christian.
If you read the history of the second temple period, in the Talmud, Josephus, and even some Roman writings, it becomes clear that the High Priests and some of the other leaders had become very corrupt. I wouldn't call them God fearing Jews, there was nothing peculiar about them, they were only Jews by birth. Here's an article about this time and what Jesus was talking about. Buying/selling was not the sin. It was were and why they were doing it; what was in their hearts.
http://www.biblehistory.net/newsletter/annas.htm
 
Deborah13 said:
I would say they were Jews by birth, or even proselytes, but being a Jew is more than being born into a nation. One is not born being a Christian.
If you read the history of the second temple period, in the Talmud, Josephus, and even some Roman writings, it becomes clear that the High Priests and some of the other leaders had become very corrupt. I wouldn't call them God fearing Jews, there was nothing peculiar about them, they were only Jews by birth. Here's an article about this time and what Jesus was talking about. Buying/selling was not the sin. It was were and why they were doing it; what was in their hearts.
http://www.biblehistory.net/newsletter/annas.htm
Click to expand...
Yes. Thank you. Not selling or buying but the temple precinct.
got it!
:amen
 
Deborah13 said:
I would say they were Jews by birth, or even proselytes, but being a Jew is more than being born into a nation. One is not born being a Christian.
If you read the history of the second temple period, in the Talmud, Josephus, and even some Roman writings, it becomes clear that the High Priests and some of the other leaders had become very corrupt. I wouldn't call them God fearing Jews, there was nothing peculiar about them, they were only Jews by birth. Here's an article about this time and what Jesus was talking about. Buying/selling was not the sin. It was were and why they were doing it; what was in their hearts.
http://www.biblehistory.net/newsletter/annas.htm
Click to expand...
Interesting site Deb.
Thanks

I also read somewhere that they were also selling flea infested doves and such.
People back then were suppose to give the best of their own flock, like, without blemishes and such.

And you are also correct, about being called Jews.
One can be from N.C and live in New York, and be called New Yorkers, lol.
Then you have Jews in America, that are called Americans.
 
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