The identity of the antichrist in 5 verses

[jasonc]

Interesting site Deb.
Thanks

I also read somewhere that they were also selling flea infested doves and such.
People back then were suppose to give the best of their own flock, like, without blemishes and such.

And you are also correct, about being called Jews.
One can be from N.C and live in New York, and be called New Yorkers, lol.
Then you have Jews in America, that are called Americans.

uhm a practicing jew is a jew no matter where he is. was Daniel any less of a jew in Babylon?

 

[ezrider]

I believe you are confusing Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit.

You think? Yeah, well.., uh..., nah...., not really. No

Why is it that Christians push so hard for the trinity doctrine when that are trying to worship Jesus as a God after the manner of His Flesh, but then they deny the trinity in its application through the Holy Spirit. God is a Spirit, and must be worshiped in Spirit and in Truth.

John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[gracenote]

The Most High God's Holy Spirit is so marvelous and full of love that it is awe-inspiring!

 

[dianegcook]

uhm a practicing jew is a jew no matter where he is. was Daniel any less of a jew in Babylon?

Exactly,
Wasn't Daniel considered a Babylonian?
Was all people that lived in Judea, a practicing Jew, they all could be called Jews.

 

[jasonc]

Exactly,
Wasn't Daniel considered a Babylonian?
Was all people that lived in Judea, a practicing Jew, they all could be called Jews.

no. he was a jew. you are missing the point im making. the jew if he was faithful no matter where he was is still a jew. im a jewish believer. im as much of isreal as I can be. if jesus didn't come and I was in America following the torah. I would still be a Hebrew. its not the land that makes one a Hebrew but the faith. you called all jews in America, an American. yeah about that. isreal never leaves any jew if they are ones who love isreal. that is my point. if a jew is practicing his faith , its what made him a jew. then it did but now after the cross its another matter. today it doesn't matter.

that is what I was saying.if people that are futurist would see that the land was blessed by god to HOLY to him for his purposes for a season...

 

[dianegcook]

no. he was a jew. you are missing the point im making. the jew if he was faithful no matter where he was is still a jew. im a jewish believer. im as much of isreal as I can be. if jesus didn't come and I was in America following the torah. I would still be a Hebrew. its not the land that
makes one a Hebrew but the faith. you called all jews in America, an American. yeah about that. isreal never leaves any jew if they are ones who love isreal. that is my point. if a jew is practicing his faith , its what made him a jew. then it did but now after the cross its another matter. today it doesn't matter.

that is what I was saying.if people that are futurist would see that the land was blessed by god to HOLY to him for his purposes for a season...

OK
So you are from the tribe of Judah. Jews

 

[Deborah13]

its not the land that makes one a Hebrew but the faith.

That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[dianegcook]

That was the point I was trying to make.

:biggrin
I was thinking on the lines of Rev.2:9
And I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev.3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie.,..

 

[gracenote]

:biggrin
I was thinking on the lines of Rev.2:9
And I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev.3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie.,..

Oh my. I'd forgotten that passage altogether.
Thanks for the reference!
Good studying with all of you!

 

[dianegcook]

Also in John 8:39-
Jews speaking
They answered and said unto Him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham..
Ye do the deeds of your father.....
.......
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him......

 

[dianegcook]

Oh my. I'd forgotten that passage altogether.
Thanks for the reference!
Good studying with all of you!

Good studying with you also, and everyone.

 

[Deborah13]

:biggrin
I was thinking on the lines of Rev.2:9
And I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev.3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie.,..

That rather fits, too. Just saying one is a Jew doesn't mean that they believe what Judaism says. Just like Christians who go to church or claim to be a Christian but they are not. I personally knew someone that used the Christian label to promote their own agenda in politics and in a job.

 

[Sinthesis]

The term antichrist is used to indicate any individual person who does not believe that the Spirit of God has been sent forth to dwell within their flesh.

I believe you are confusing Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit.

You think? Yeah, well.., uh..., nah...., not really. No

Why is it that Christians push so hard for the trinity doctrine when that are trying to worship Jesus as a God after the manner of His Flesh, but then they deny the trinity in its application through the Holy Spirit. God is a Spirit, and must be worshiped in Spirit and in Truth.

John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

What is your point? I haven't denied the Trinity. Now it seems you are confusing God the Father with God the Son.

 

[john darling]

Where in scripture does it ever say that "buying and selling" is evil. In fact, it says just the opposite.

The purpose of the AC's Mark will be to control buying and selling. This makes perfect sense in light of the world's attitude in general that "money makes the world go round". I asked you, in my previous post, if you'd ever asked yourself, "why will the AC use buying and selling as the dividing line"? If you try to imagine what it'd be like to suddenly not have money to trust for your material provision, I think the answer becomes obvious, but I'm still curious to hear your answer to this question.

Humm....Sounds just like Saul and some of the other Jews, that killed the prophets, the apostles, and other disciplines.

I'm glad you brought up the example of Saul. The difference is that Saul was sincere. When new truth came his way he didn't persevere in his stubborness; he changed.

The context of the teaching was about how twisted around people's perspectives can become, even to the point that they think they are helping God to kill God's servants. I suggested how much easier it would be to convince ourselves that the Mark of the beast isn't really the Mark of the beast, especially if doing so means we avoid the discomfort of facing the spiritual lessons behind the Mark (i.e. faith in God vs faith in money). I'm still interested in hearing your thoughts on this.

So what? What difference does it make if it is a glove, a CCard, a debit card, a check, faux paper money, or coins that have no real value?

The point of brining up the various methods through which money is changing is to show that there IS a pattern. It is evidence. Buying and selling through the hand. It's clear as day right there in the prophecy and it's taking shape clear as day out in the real, practical world, but something still keeps you saying, "so what". There are dozens of such little mantras out there which people keep repeating to themselves, all aimed at avoiding the issue, explaining it away or, in some cases, becoming rather angry about it, to the point that they see those who keep pusing the issue as enemies.

Well, first of all I will not reject my Lord in order to receive anything from anyone. So it doesn't matter. I wouldn't do that to receive any kind of money, food, clothing, etc.

I asked if you will take a microchip in your hand for the purpose of buying and selling. Can you see how you didn't really answer my question? I mean, I think it's good that you seem to at least be leaving your options open to not taking the microchip if you do, at some point, decide that it is too similar to the Mark, but I also know that resisting the Mark will take strong conviction because it gets right to the heart of our dependency on money. A luke warm attitude toward the issue now will almost certainly lead to a bad decision later. We can't afford to be so casual about it anymore.

It doesn't sound to me like you don't have very much faith in the Lord to keep you safe. I trust the Lord that He keeps me, I am under His protective wings. My faith is in His power not my own. He does not forsake His own.

You talk about God's protection, but God will not force us to follow him. We still make our own decisions on how much truth/change we are willing to accept. The Mark represents a choice; a final line in the concrete. For thousands of years Christians have been able to play games with faith in God vs faith in money, but that time is quickly drawing to a close. No more masks. No more games. If your faith is in money, you will take the AC's microchip. If your faith is in God, you will not take the AC's microchip. It really is that simple.

In Mt 24:24 Jesus talks about a time of deception so great that, if it were possible, even his own followers would be deceived. But his followers avoid deception because they choose not to be deceived. They watch and consider the "signs of the times" (Mt 16:1-4). Our willingness to listen and change is where our protection comes from. God won't miraculously stop us from taking the Mark. When the people asked Jesus for a sign, he told them an evil generation seeks a sign and that the only sign he will give them is the sign of Jonah. All Jonah gave the people of Nineveh was the truth.

 

[reba]

The purpose of the AC's Mark will be to control buying and selling. This makes perfect sense in light of the world's attitude in general that "money makes the world go round". I asked you, in my previous post, if you'd ever asked yourself, "why will the AC use buying and selling as the dividing line"? If you try to imagine what it'd be like to suddenly not have money to trust for your material provision, I think the answer becomes obvious, but I'm still curious to hear your answer to this question.

Where is the scripture for this idea?

 

[Deborah13]

If your faith is in money, you will take the AC's microchip. If your faith is in God, you will not take the AC's microchip.

Look at what you are saying. You have determined in your own mind that the mark is a microchip in your hand. The Bible says no such thing. You are adding your own imaginings to the word of God.
I remember the days when Christians were trying to understand Rev. were saying that a CCard was the mark of the beast. Obviously not.
I think you have a very carnal view of spiritual things.
I suggest that you go to OT scripture and find where God instructs His children to keep His laws between their eyes and on their arm and compare that to the Rev. mark.
Then I suggest comparing the scripture in the NT about having the law of God written on our hearts and on our minds and compare that to the Rev. mark.
If you still believe the mark on the forehead or hand is some kind of physical tender, then I think you have missed the spiritual signigance of the scripture.

If you try to imagine what it'd be like to suddenly not have money to trust for your material provision, I think the answer becomes obvious, but I'm still curious to hear your answer to this question.

I don't have to try to imagine this scenario, I have actually been there and had three children to feed. I tell you Again, I would not reject my Savior for any reason. So it someone were to say to me that I had to reject my God and worship some lawless man, in order to work, no I would not do that. That would be idolatry. There have always been people who are willing to worship money and reject God. The rich man in the Gospels comes to mind.

I'm still interested in hearing your thoughts on this.

I not sure how much more plainly I could state my position than I did in my previous post. I am not willing to reject my God for mammon, is that plain enough for you?

The point of brining up the various methods through which money is changing is to show that there IS a pattern. It is evidence.

It's obviously a diversion for you. You are waiting for the new technology and are so sure that not getting a microchip in your hand will save you.
God's answer to eating is honest working. If I were you I'd be much more concerned about not having work. Not being able to sell ones labor in order to buy. Or not being able to have a business to sell ones produce of their labor. Instead you are being fooled into believing that God cares about what kind of tender one buys and sells with.
Jesus certainly wasn't concerned about it. He said it had nothing to do with anything when it came to giving to God what is God's. Our minds and our hearts.

I asked if you will take a microchip in your hand for the purpose of buying and selling.

I'm not willing to put in kind of tender into my body or any kind of tracking device or ID chip, or anything else. But it isn't because I believe it would be a sin to do so. Anymore than it's a sin to use any other kind of tender.
If one does something unGodly in order to obtain tender, that something is the sin. Such as dealing drugs, or fraud, etc. or worshiping an idol, such as Caesar. One doesn't do this by accident or unknowingly.

You talk about God's protection, but God will not force us to follow him. We still make our own decisions on how much truth/change we are willing to accept. The Mark represents a choice; a final line in the concrete. For thousands of years Christians have been able to play games with faith in God vs faith in money, but that time is quickly drawing to a close. No more masks. No more games. If your faith is in money, you will take the AC's microchip. If your faith is in God, you will not take the AC's microchip. It really is that simple.

I think you are being deceived. That final choice, line in the sand, is made by each individual believer and has been going on since the beginning of time as we know it. If you think God has been allowing believers to play games with Him of thousands of years you don't have the same view of God that I do.

 

[turnorburn]

If a man you met on the street said to you "Having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ is dangerous" would you say that that man had the spirit of antichrist?

tob

 

[dianegcook]

That rather fits, too. Just saying one is a Jew doesn't mean that they believe what Judaism says. Just like Christians who go to church or claim to be a Christian but they are not. I personally knew someone that used the Christian label to promote their own agenda in politics and in a job.

:amen

 

[dianegcook]

Look at what you are saying. You have determined in your own mind that the mark is a microchip in your hand. The Bible says no such thing. You are adding your own imaginings to the word of God.
I remember the days when Christians were trying to understand Rev. were saying that a CCard was the mark of the beast. Obviously not.
I think you have a very carnal view of spiritual things.
I suggest that you go to OT scripture and find where God instructs His children to keep His laws between their eyes and on their arm and compare that to the Rev. mark.
Then I suggest comparing the scripture in the NT about having the law of God written on our hearts and on our minds and compare that to the Rev. mark.
If you still believe the mark on the forehead or hand is some kind of physical tender, then I think you have missed the spiritual signigance of the scripture.

I don't have to try to imagine this scenario, I have actually been there and had three children to feed. I tell you Again, I would not reject my Savior for any reason. So it someone were to say to me that I had to reject my God and worship some lawless man, in order to work, no I would not do that. That would be idolatry. There have always been people who are willing to worship money and reject God. The rich man in the Gospels comes to mind.

I not sure how much more plainly I could state my position than I did in my previous post. I am not willing to reject my God for mammon, is that plain enough for you?

It's obviously a diversion for you. You are waiting for the new technology and are so sure that not getting a microchip in your hand will save you.
God's answer to eating is honest working. If I were you I'd be much more concerned about not having work. Not being able to sell ones labor in order to buy. Or not being able to have a business to sell ones produce of their labor. Instead you are being fooled into believing that God cares about what kind of tender one buys and sells with.
Jesus certainly wasn't concerned about it. He said it had nothing to do with anything when it came to giving to God what is God's. Our minds and our hearts.

I'm not willing to put in kind of tender into my body or any kind of tracking device or ID chip, or anything else. But it isn't because I believe it would be a sin to do so. Anymore than it's a sin to use any other kind of tender.
If one does something unGodly in order to obtain tender, that something is the sin. Such as dealing drugs, or fraud, etc. or worshiping an idol, such as Caesar. One doesn't do this by accident or unknowingly.

I think you are being deceived. That final choice, line in the sand, is made by each individual believer and has been going on since the beginning of time as we know it. If you think God has been allowing believers to play games with Him of thousands of years you don't have the same view of God that I do.

I also think it is a spiritual thing, it is what is in a man's mind, forehead.
Ezek.3:8,9
Behold, I have made thy face strong against their faces, and thy forehead strong against their foreheads.
As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead, fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.

 

[Deborah13]

I also think it is a spiritual thing, it is what is in a man's mind, forehead.
Ezek.3:8,9
Behold, I have made thy face strong against their faces, and thy forehead strong against their foreheads.
As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead, fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.

Excellent scripture. Thanks